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The Classical Music Thread

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    DeathPrawnDeathPrawn Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Any of you guys fans of Olivier Messiaen? I've been listening to the Quartet for the End of Time and it is completely blowing my mind.

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    Lord Of The PantsLord Of The Pants Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    That was the one written in the POW camp? That is a pretty amazing piece.

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    saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I'm currently writing an essay on Beethoven's 5th, so I thought I'd stop by this thread. I'm writing about how its different from traditional Classical symphonies and the initial public reaction to it.

    Beethoven is indeed great, I prefer his music to Mozart's and the other Classical composers, though not to say they weren't also great. Other than that, I'm currently listening to quite a bit of Bach. I really love Baroque music, I love the basso continuo and that the music is often so relentless.

    I was thinking of listening to some opera for my next report, but I'm not sure whether to listen to something like Wagner, Mozart, or Italian opera.

    Have you come across the little tidbit that the 5th we know today was actually numbered the 6th originally? Yeah, something to do with concert order at the debut.

    Are you getting a degree in musicology, by any chance?

    saggio on
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    PorkChopSandwichesPorkChopSandwiches Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    DeathPrawn wrote:
    Any of you guys fans of Olivier Messiaen? I've been listening to the Quartet for the End of Time and it is completely blowing my mind.

    I enjoy the inside joke in Futurama - Leela being named after one of his symphonies. If you've ever listening to that particular symphony, it's way out there. Lots of Star Wars sounding effects. I think that it calls for an ondes Martenet. Crazy stuff. Anyone ever heard of Black Angels by George Crumb? Disturbing music for a disturbing topic.

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    What I've heard of Olivier Messiaen has been almost universally odd. Quite distant from anything else I've heard.

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    DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Poldy wrote:
    Go to Wagner for greatness, Italian for melody, and see Mozart for entertainment.

    Mozart - especially Le Nozze - is is the one opera composer that simply MUST be seen. I can't wait to see The Magic Flute at the met.

    My school did a field trip to see Pavarotti at the Met when I lived in New Jersey. I can't remember what Opera it was, though, this was when I was in 5th grade. I may go see the Dallas Opera, which would be the first time I've been to one since.
    saggio wrote:
    Have you come across the little tidbit that the 5th we know today was actually numbered the 6th originally? Yeah, something to do with concert order at the debut.

    Are you getting a degree in musicology, by any chance?

    I'm just taking a music history course for fun, for one of my requirements. :D

    I did not know that, I'll try to look for something on that.

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    holy shit

    you know when something clicks

    it just happened


    for the Große Fuge

    ummmm


    holy shit



    holy fucking shit




    holy holy holy shit

    hosana in the highest

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Just now?

    Jesus Christ, where have you been?

    Next, you'll suddenly realize how rad Brahms is.

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Elendil wrote:
    Just now?

    Jesus Christ, where have you been?

    Next, you'll suddenly realize how rad Brahms is.

    No no no no

    I don't mean that I liked it. I've loved it for years.

    But, I'm beginning to understand The same thing happened to me with A Love Supreme and the ninth a few years ago.

    You know that feeling when you begin to dialogue with the composer, and you almost become one with the notes and travel with them in time - blissfully unaware of the outside world? Yeah, that.

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Poldy

    We all feel like that every day

    [spoiler:9dcf6637a8]jk, that's pretty rad. Closest I come is probably Op. 111[/spoiler:9dcf6637a8]

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    IcemopperIcemopper Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I gotta say I'm a huuuuge fan of Beethoven's 9th, not the Ode to Joy part as much though.

    I'm playing lots of Bach's lute stuff on guitar, so its meh.

    But my favorite is Clair de Lune. It was my grandmother's favorite song ever.


    Man I know I don't post here like at all, but I gotta share the classical love.

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Icemopper wrote:
    I gotta say I'm a huuuuge fan of Beethoven's 9th, not the Ode to Joy part as much though.

    I'm playing lots of Bach's lute stuff on guitar, so its meh.

    But my favorite is Clair de Lune. It was my grandmother's favorite song ever.


    Man I know I don't post here like at all, but I gotta share the classical love.

    Many people feel the way you do - Wagner was vehement in his belief that the chorale was the worst part of the ninth. He felt it was a cop out - Beethoven's attempt to express in words what he had spent a whole symphony trying (failing) to do.

    I, for once, disagree with Wagner and believe it to be the best part, but that's because I think of the ninth as a symphony in four dimensions with the chorale constantly slipping in and out as the symphony progresses in time.

    Clair de Lune is the only song I know how to play on the piano. I freaking LOVE that song.


    edit* Elendil, fuck. What is op.111? That's not Missa Solemnis, verdad? Is that a cello concerto?

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Poldy wrote:
    I, for once, disagree with Wagner and believe it to be the best part, but that's because I think of the ninth as a symphony in four dimensions with the chorale constantly slipping in and out as the symphony progresses in time.

    edit* Elendil, fuck. What is op.111? That's not Missa Solemnis, verdad? Is that a cello concerto?
    Interestingly, my favorite part of the ninth's last movement is instrumental, rather than choral. It's hard to describe where, but it's after the big climax, a very short part in the middle of the sort of hushed choral section.

    Op. 111 is the last piano sonata. The Arietta is without a doubt the single most beautiful piece of music I have heard thus far.

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    IcemopperIcemopper Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Elendil wrote:
    Poldy wrote:
    I, for once, disagree with Wagner and believe it to be the best part, but that's because I think of the ninth as a symphony in four dimensions with the chorale constantly slipping in and out as the symphony progresses in time.

    edit* Elendil, fuck. What is op.111? That's not Missa Solemnis, verdad? Is that a cello concerto?
    Interestingly, my favorite part of the ninth's last movement is instrumental, rather than choral. It's hard to describe where, but it's after the big climax, a very short part in the middle of the sort of hushed choral section.

    Op. 111 is the last piano sonata. The Arietta is without a doubt the single most beautiful piece of music I have heard thus far.

    One of the best parts of the 9th is the very beginning. I can't not enjoy how it slowly comes to a huge climax, beautiful part writing, beautiful rhythm. I nearly come to tears (not really) listening to it.

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Elendil wrote:
    Poldy wrote:
    I, for once, disagree with Wagner and believe it to be the best part, but that's because I think of the ninth as a symphony in four dimensions with the chorale constantly slipping in and out as the symphony progresses in time.

    edit* Elendil, fuck. What is op.111? That's not Missa Solemnis, verdad? Is that a cello concerto?
    Interestingly, my favorite part of the ninth's last movement is instrumental, rather than choral. It's hard to describe where, but it's after the big climax, a very short part in the middle of the sort of hushed choral section.

    Op. 111 is the last piano sonata. The Arietta is without a doubt the single most beautiful piece of music I have heard thus far.

    Really? I thought the Hammerklavier was the last piano sonate.

    My favorite part of the chorale is the "third movement," at two parts:when the sopranos and tenors do a pedal tone fugue and, towards the end, when all but the sopranos stop, the tubas and french horns start an exuberant fanfare, and everything commences.

    I always forget the german word markers

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Poldy wrote:
    Elendil wrote:
    Poldy wrote:
    I, for once, disagree with Wagner and believe it to be the best part, but that's because I think of the ninth as a symphony in four dimensions with the chorale constantly slipping in and out as the symphony progresses in time.

    edit* Elendil, fuck. What is op.111? That's not Missa Solemnis, verdad? Is that a cello concerto?
    Interestingly, my favorite part of the ninth's last movement is instrumental, rather than choral. It's hard to describe where, but it's after the big climax, a very short part in the middle of the sort of hushed choral section.

    Op. 111 is the last piano sonata. The Arietta is without a doubt the single most beautiful piece of music I have heard thus far.

    Really? I thought the Hammerklavier was the last piano sonate.
    Dammit Poldy. Why you gotta make me hit you? :P

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Icemopper wrote:
    Elendil wrote:
    Poldy wrote:
    I, for once, disagree with Wagner and believe it to be the best part, but that's because I think of the ninth as a symphony in four dimensions with the chorale constantly slipping in and out as the symphony progresses in time.

    edit* Elendil, fuck. What is op.111? That's not Missa Solemnis, verdad? Is that a cello concerto?
    Interestingly, my favorite part of the ninth's last movement is instrumental, rather than choral. It's hard to describe where, but it's after the big climax, a very short part in the middle of the sort of hushed choral section.

    Op. 111 is the last piano sonata. The Arietta is without a doubt the single most beautiful piece of music I have heard thus far.

    One of the best parts of the 9th is the very beginning. I can't not enjoy how it slowly comes to a huge climax, beautiful part writing, beautiful rhythm. I nearly come to tears (not really) listening to it.

    Yeah, same for me.

    And I have yet to listen to the choral without getting up and dancing and jumping for joy

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    The_Indigo_ApocalypseThe_Indigo_Apocalypse Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Poldy wrote:
    Icemopper wrote:
    Elendil wrote:
    Poldy wrote:
    I, for once, disagree with Wagner and believe it to be the best part, but that's because I think of the ninth as a symphony in four dimensions with the chorale constantly slipping in and out as the symphony progresses in time.

    edit* Elendil, fuck. What is op.111? That's not Missa Solemnis, verdad? Is that a cello concerto?
    Interestingly, my favorite part of the ninth's last movement is instrumental, rather than choral. It's hard to describe where, but it's after the big climax, a very short part in the middle of the sort of hushed choral section.

    Op. 111 is the last piano sonata. The Arietta is without a doubt the single most beautiful piece of music I have heard thus far.

    One of the best parts of the 9th is the very beginning. I can't not enjoy how it slowly comes to a huge climax, beautiful part writing, beautiful rhythm. I nearly come to tears (not really) listening to it.

    Yeah, same for me.

    And I have yet to listen to the choral without getting up and dancing and jumping for joy

    TRUUEEEE DAT!

    Beethoven=one of my top 10 favorite composers of all time.He's fighting for my number one spot, as are 4 other composers. lol

    So my symphony orchestra had a Halloween concert this apst firday, and we played some great stuff!


    -Dance Macabre (Saint-Saens)

    -SORCERER'S APPRENTICE!!!!! (Dukas)

    -Dei Fledermaus (Strauss)

    -Polovetzian Dances (Borodin)--with a choir

    then we played some pop songs (John Williams)


    Bust seriously, Sorcerer's Apprentice has to be one of the most fun classical pieces to play. But damn, that piece is insane to play! @_@
    I have to say though, Polovetzian dances is pretty cool to listen to with a choir to sing with the symphony.

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    saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Oh, shit, playing the theme from Sorcerer's Apprentice on my bassoon is fucking awesome. I love it so much.

    saggio on
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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Anyone else a fan of Ligeti?

    I'm listening to his Musica Ricercata, a set of works for piano. The first piece consists entirely of one pitch and is not only interesting, but amazing. Each piece in the set adds another note until he's using the entire chromatic scale.

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    PorkChopSandwichesPorkChopSandwiches Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm going pose a new question if I may...

    What is your favorite piece of music that you have played?

    Mine would have to either be the Ravel arrangement of Pictures, Maslanka's Second Symphony, or Andrew Rindfleisch's The Light Fantastic.

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    saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm going pose a new question if I may...

    What is your favorite piece of music that you have played?

    Mine would have to either be the Ravel arrangement of Pictures, Maslanka's Second Symphony, or Andrew Rindfleisch's The Light Fantastic.

    Dvorak's Slavonic Dances. I think it was the 6th that I loved the best. I can't remember the stupid numbers...It starts off with a...D(?) minor chord, and then a sort of mournful tune carried by the clarients, oboes, and flutes. The bassoon (which is what I play) has fairly uninteresting accompianment...But, holy crap, when you play it, it sounds like absolute gold!

    My second favourite...Well, it's a tie between Beethoven's Overture to Fidelio, and Nimrod from Elgar's Enigma Variations. The former because it's Ludwig motherfucking Beethoven, and the second because it has what is quite possibly the most beautiful moment in music, ever.

    saggio on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Paganini's 24th cappricio or a very slowed down third movement of Mendelsshon's string quartet

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    The_Indigo_ApocalypseThe_Indigo_Apocalypse Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm going pose a new question if I may...

    What is your favorite piece of music that you have played?

    Mine would have to either be the Ravel arrangement of Pictures, Maslanka's Second Symphony, or Andrew Rindfleisch's The Light Fantastic.

    Holst's The Planets, Dukas's The Sorcerer's Apprentice, Shatakovitch's 1st Symphony, or Beethoven's Violin Concerto.

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    AmphetamineAmphetamine Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
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    saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Faure's Elegy

    I've played some Faure before. I didn't like it very much, though. Crazy whole tone and octatonic stuff didn't really jive. Could you recommend some of his better works?

    saggio on
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    ShurakaiShurakai Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I love classical music, but I can never discern what I like and don't like specifically. I know I dont like opera, in any case. Voices are annoying unless they are in a choir, at least to me.

    I can never keep track of modern artists, let alone people hundreds of years old with fancy names.

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Shurakai wrote:
    I love classical music, but I can never discern what I like and don't like specifically. I know I dont like opera, in any case. Voices are annoying unless they are in a choir, at least to me.

    I can never keep track of modern artists, let alone people hundreds of years old with fancy names.

    I'm a big proponent of the era approach.

    If you search through the pages, I've given it out a couple of times. Go for some of the best pieces of the biggest names in a movement, and go start/go from there.

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    HamjuHamju Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Hey apparently there's a video of Evgeny Kissin playing Rach's 3rd. I'm gonna go check it out now.

    Edit: Sound quality is pretty low (it is on google video), but you get to watch the pianist the whole time and it really is a visual spectacle watching one of the hardest (or arguably the hardest) piano pieces ever written performed. I've actually got a better video of Olga Kern performing it and it was quite awesome.

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    The_Indigo_ApocalypseThe_Indigo_Apocalypse Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    God yes.

    Plus, listening to Rachmaninoff is like having sex.


    [spoiler:c487cc4bd1]Only I don't have to fake an orgasm when I listen to Rachmaninoff[/spoiler:c487cc4bd1]



    ...Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. :wink:

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    The slow movement of Beethoven's "Ghost" Trio has to be one of the best ever.

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    HamjuHamju Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I was recently at a performance of Rachmaninov's Vespers and oh man, was that something. There was actually a couple basses there that had the absolutely rediculous, incredible range required (High F to low Bb!!). Awesome. The choir overall had some serious issues and needed to have their notes given to them at the beginning of each section which really disrupted the flow of the piece, but overall it was a good performance.

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    HamjuHamju Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    So searching for Rachmaninov on Google Video wielded this gem. Martha Argerich!! She does a better job at the Rach 3 then that other guy.
    Go watch it.

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    saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Okay, so my Sibelius symphonic cycle was destroyed, and I'm having serious withdrawl. I need some recommendations for a good, relatively inexpensive, non-Karajan Sibelius cycle. Anyone have any ideas?

    saggio on
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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    The Bernstein/NYPO is pretty good, and pretty cheap. That's the one I have.

    Edit: Er, was. :? The price on Amazon is much, much higher than what I paid.

    In other news, the Well-Tempered Clavier continues to astound me. Holy shit.

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Irond Will wrote:
    Poldy wrote:
    In the modern world, we have to learn to like Mozart. He is very contrary to our natural opinions. However, once you realize what makes him great, you love him. I'm sure there's some early posts in the classical thread where I am dissing him. I've paid my dues. I'm sorry.

    Can you give me an overview of what I should listen for? My understanding of the great majority of his works is that they're effortless and consonant, but lack any real motivation or passion. His chamber music just sort of diappears out of my range of hearing within a minute or two. People who admire him seem to go in for his consonance and virtuosity.

    I guess his Requiem and his operas are different, and I enjoy these.

    Well, first off, Mozart had an amazing ear for melody. Just listen to the "Signore, Di Fuori" quartet from the finale of Figaro's first act. However, Mozart lived in the classical era. It is all about restrain. And in the classical era, what is valued more than emotion is form. I've found the best way to get into a particular era of music is through string quartets. Is is harmony pared down to its most beautiful minimum, and the ideas are most easily grasped. Look at his 15th string quartet. It always feels like it's going to go soaring off, but before it does, Mozart reels it in and presents the idea in a new light. For what Mozart looses in grandiloquence, he wins in variety. His themes are presented in dozens of twists and turns, often introducing and entwining new melodies and grafting them on to create a beautuful arbol of sound.

    Mozart is about form and subtlety. Just look at Le Nozze again. The jokes are of a very nasaly, intellectual humor. One rarely bursts out laughing, but the viewer is amused almost the entire time. The first Trio, with the Count, Sussana, Cherubino, and whatever that guys name is always makes me chuckle. Many jokes that make you laugh out loud wear away over time. So does the music of someone like Mehndellshon. This is because they really on immediate emotional appeal. However, I always find myself as entertained or entranced at Mozart's craft, because it is based in form. One can always appreciate Mozart's mastery of sonata form in his Jupiter symphony. Mendellshon's Violin Concerto? Sound really cool, but it's a whole lot of flash.

    Mozart was also INCREDIBLY prolific. And he died so young. One can only imagine what his oeuvre would have been like had he lived to someone like Verdi's age.

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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2006
    Poldy wrote:
    Irond Will wrote:
    Poldy wrote:
    In the modern world, we have to learn to like Mozart. He is very contrary to our natural opinions. However, once you realize what makes him great, you love him. I'm sure there's some early posts in the classical thread where I am dissing him. I've paid my dues. I'm sorry.

    Can you give me an overview of what I should listen for? My understanding of the great majority of his works is that they're effortless and consonant, but lack any real motivation or passion. His chamber music just sort of diappears out of my range of hearing within a minute or two. People who admire him seem to go in for his consonance and virtuosity.

    I guess his Requiem and his operas are different, and I enjoy these.

    Well, first off, Mozart had an amazing ear for melody. Just listen to the "Signore, Di Fuori" quartet from the finale of Figaro's first act. However, Mozart lived in the classical era. It is all about restrain. And in the classical era, what is valued more than emotion is form. I've found the best way to get into a particular era of music is through string quartets. Is is harmony pared down to its most beautiful minimum, and the ideas are most easily grasped. Look at his 15th string quartet. It always feels like it's going to go soaring off, but before it does, Mozart reels it in and presents the idea in a new light. For what Mozart looses in grandiloquence, he wins in variety. His themes are presented in dozens of twists and turns, often introducing and entwining new melodies and grafting them on to create a beautuful arbol of sound.

    Mozart is about form and subtlety. Just look at Le Nozze again. The jokes are of a very nasaly, intellectual humor. One rarely bursts out laughing, but the viewer is amused almost the entire time. The first Trio, with the Count, Sussana, Cherubino, and whatever that guys name is always makes me chuckle. Many jokes that make you laugh out loud wear away over time. So does the music of someone like Mehndellshon. This is because they really on immediate emotional appeal. However, I always find myself as entertained or entranced at Mozart's craft, because it is based in form. One can always appreciate Mozart's mastery of sonata form in his Jupiter symphony. Mendellshon's Violin Concerto? Sound really cool, but it's a whole lot of flash.

    Mozart was also INCREDIBLY prolific. And he died so young. One can only imagine what his oeuvre would have been like had he lived to someone like Verdi's age.

    This is helpful. I suppose that, being fairly uneducated in classical and a complete dilettante, things like restraint are not all that obvious to me. Virtuosity and mastery of form, I suppose, are even less obvious. I find it somehow frustrating when what sounds like an incipient soaring direction is quashed, but I suppose I can see the artistry in it.

    The reason I like Mozart's Requiem and operas is because he apparently feels more free to escalate or follow up on his directions. Maybe those forms are more forgiving of sentiment and pomposity, but I don't find myself frustrated at what feels like a lack of direction in those.

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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Like, where's the beat? I want some shit I can dance to, yo. I ain't seen no wimmins shakin they rump to no Mozart, so like what's the point?

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    celery77 wrote:
    Like, where's the beat? I want some shit I can dance to, yo. I ain't seen no wimmins shakin they rump to no Mozart, so like what's the point?
    Try the Rite of Spring.

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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    celery77 wrote:
    Like, where's the beat? I want some shit I can dance to, yo. I ain't seen no wimmins shakin they rump to no Mozart, so like what's the point?

    Go listen to your darkie music


    [spoiler:49a8911ee6]I kinda like Snoop's new release. I wanted to hate it so much.[/spoiler:49a8911ee6]

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