I've never had much luck with chasing. It sounds great on paper but in practice, not so much. A good L in this game is all about getting the right stat ups and one or two attack skills.
That Alchemy discussion you had last month when I was away is a pretty interesting one. Basically, A's are good but not great single target damage deals and the best AOE damage dealers depending on how they are skilled out. I personally go two elements and one non elemental for type coverage and it works out fine.
So, I know that I'm really late to the party on this, but I'd like to say that I'm really having a blast playing this. My highest level party is Ronin/Landskneckt/Dark Hunter in front and Survivalist/Medic in back. It seems a bit too physically oriented (though it made it easier when I got an ice weapon for both my Ronin and Landskneckt for finishing off the second stratum). But now I'm guessing that the 3rd stratum seems to be ice related, I'm going to have to get some fire weapons. I've been toying around with leveling up an alchemist or Troubador (yay, Bards!) to get some better elemental coverage.
Question about some stats, on the wiki (is it abandoned?) in the OP, it says that the LUC stat affects any ability that has a chance of working. So just for clarity, this would include stuff like Hexer's status spells, hit/miss with a weapon, and instant death spells like Climax? Does anyone know how this stat affects these things?
On a side note, how in the world did atlus get an everyone rating when the Dark Hunter has skills (not even thinly veiled) such as cuffs, bondage(I think?) and climax?
Also, I haven't seen Troubador's mentioned much in this thread, is one worth leveling up? I was thinking of giving him the elemental weapon spells so that my Ronin and Landskneckt wouldn't need to worry about equipping the right weapon before the battle.
chrono_traveller on
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
First thing I'd recommend for your lands and your survivalist is to get a bomb axe/that bow I can't remember. The axe you get from killing Hellion with climax and the bow from Chimaera while he's poisoned. Some of the best weapons in the game.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the axe is fire based which is an added bonus for the ice based third stratum.
First thing I'd recommend for your lands and your survivalist is to get a bomb axe/that bow I can't remember. The axe you get from killing Hellion with climax and the bow from Chimaera while he's poisoned. Some of the best weapons in the game.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the axe is fire based which is an added bonus for the ice based third stratum.
But those cost like $texas sized monies. I got both those drops (which helped immensely) but just the bow I think costs like 231k! I dunno, even if I grind the money, won't those weapons kinda take a lot of the strategy out of the game? I beat Hellion on my first try (though just barely, I only had him down to about half when on my last TP I got climax to work), otherwise it wasn't happening at all. If I had those uber weapons so early (I just beat Hellion yesterday), it would take some of the strategy out of those fights.
chrono_traveller on
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
First thing I'd recommend for your lands and your survivalist is to get a bomb axe/that bow I can't remember. The axe you get from killing Hellion with climax and the bow from Chimaera while he's poisoned. Some of the best weapons in the game.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the axe is fire based which is an added bonus for the ice based third stratum.
But those cost like $texas sized monies. I got both those drops (which helped immensely) but just the bow I think costs like 231k! I dunno, even if I grind the money, won't those weapons kinda take a lot of the strategy out of the game? I beat Hellion on my first try (though just barely, I only had him down to about half when on my last TP I got climax to work), otherwise it wasn't happening at all. If I had those uber weapons so early (I just beat Hellion yesterday), it would take some of the strategy out of those fights.
Volt may actually be more useful for the third stratum, iirc. How is your party faring against FOEs? The physical damagers in my parties seem barely able to scratch newest-floor FOEs, meaning my Alchemist pretty much has to take them down himself.
First thing I'd recommend for your lands and your survivalist is to get a bomb axe/that bow I can't remember. The axe you get from killing Hellion with climax and the bow from Chimaera while he's poisoned. Some of the best weapons in the game.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the axe is fire based which is an added bonus for the ice based third stratum.
But those cost like $texas sized monies. I got both those drops (which helped immensely) but just the bow I think costs like 231k! I dunno, even if I grind the money, won't those weapons kinda take a lot of the strategy out of the game? I beat Hellion on my first try (though just barely, I only had him down to about half when on my last TP I got climax to work), otherwise it wasn't happening at all. If I had those uber weapons so early (I just beat Hellion yesterday), it would take some of the strategy out of those fights.
Volt may actually be more useful for the third stratum, iirc. How is your party faring against FOEs? The physical damagers in my parties seem barely able to scratch newest-floor FOEs, meaning my Alchemist pretty much has to take them down himself.
Yeah, I usually have to be almost autoattacking the regular enemies on the floor above before I can take down most FOEs. But it got incredibly easy towards the end of the 2nd stratum with the ice katana and axe I got. Thats why I'm thinking of leveling a Troubador for his elemental weapon abilities, not sure who I'd replace.
chrono_traveller on
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
First thing I'd recommend for your lands and your survivalist is to get a bomb axe/that bow I can't remember. The axe you get from killing Hellion with climax and the bow from Chimaera while he's poisoned. Some of the best weapons in the game.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the axe is fire based which is an added bonus for the ice based third stratum.
But those cost like $texas sized monies. I got both those drops (which helped immensely) but just the bow I think costs like 231k! I dunno, even if I grind the money, won't those weapons kinda take a lot of the strategy out of the game? I beat Hellion on my first try (though just barely, I only had him down to about half when on my last TP I got climax to work), otherwise it wasn't happening at all. If I had those uber weapons so early (I just beat Hellion yesterday), it would take some of the strategy out of those fights.
Volt may actually be more useful for the third stratum, iirc. How is your party faring against FOEs? The physical damagers in my parties seem barely able to scratch newest-floor FOEs, meaning my Alchemist pretty much has to take them down himself.
Yeah, I usually have to be almost autoattacking the regular enemies on the floor above before I can take down most FOEs. But it got incredibly easy towards the end of the 2nd stratum with the ice katana and axe I got. Thats why I'm thinking of leveling a Troubador for his elemental weapon abilities, not sure who I'd replace.
If your only concern is putting out elemental damage, an Alchemist would serve you better. Troub's elemental support skills only buff one person at a time to do element damage, whereas an Alch can either nuke everyone or super-nuke one target right off the first turn. Alchemists can even be built to cast a spell or two each battle and still have TP to spare for taking down FOEs, if you plan his skills well.
Troubadors...basically suck at everything not involving giving Hexers more HP and other party members more attack or sometimes speed. Oh and leveling a ton of people really fast on bosses.
That does leave a ton of points to put into stats though, and with the right bow they are still pretty good!
Troubadors...basically suck at everything not involving giving Hexers more HP and other party members more attack or sometimes speed. Oh and leveling a ton of people really fast on bosses.
That does leave a ton of points to put into stats though, and with the right bow they are still pretty good!
Well, I realize that they're a buff class, so obviously they're not going to be great damage dealers. However, you seem to be saying that that their elemental weapon buffs aren't worth it? Am I reading that right?
Another question: Am I going to be regretting not having a protector later on? My Ronin and Dark Hunter seem to get one-shotted way too much on FOEs for my liking, so I've put a point here and there into HP for them, but the lack of Provoke, which I used on the lower levels is proving somewhat vexing at times.
Also, has anyone gone with a war magus as their healer instead of a medic? I tried for a bit, but I ate through nectars so fast, it made my wallet hurt something fierce.
Edit: 'nother noob question, what can remove petrify? Looking through the skill list, I can only think the medic's refresh(and only maxed?) can do the trick. Are there any items/other skills that can do it? That one quest where there are three gargoyle enemies heading for the town was such a pain for me. First, didn't have any volt abilities and second, I just had to hope they didn't petrify my front line. The time I did it, I only got my second guy petrified on the 3rd gargoyle. Such a pain.
chrono_traveller on
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
Yes, Troubadors are better buffers in the first game, but in both titles the elemental buffs are only of questionable worth.
War Magus have two problems. One is a lack of TP, which can be solved with the Hexer/Curse Cut or copious use of items. Their other problem is no revive/other status healers...which can also be solved by items. Still, if you don't find yourself dying very much they are very capable party members.
Troubadors...basically suck at everything not involving giving Hexers more HP and other party members more attack or sometimes speed. Oh and leveling a ton of people really fast on bosses.
That does leave a ton of points to put into stats though, and with the right bow they are still pretty good!
Well, I realize that they're a buff class, so obviously they're not going to be great damage dealers. However, you seem to be saying that that their elemental weapon buffs aren't worth it? Am I reading that right?
Another question: Am I going to be regretting not having a protector later on? My Ronin and Dark Hunter seem to get one-shotted way too much on FOEs for my liking, so I've put a point here and there into HP for them, but the lack of Provoke, which I used on the lower levels is proving somewhat vexing at times.
Also, has anyone gone with a war magus as their healer instead of a medic? I tried for a bit, but I ate through nectars so fast, it made my wallet hurt something fierce.
Edit: 'nother noob question, what can remove petrify? Looking through the skill list, I can only think the medic's refresh(and only maxed?) can do the trick. Are there any items/other skills that can do it? That one quest where there are three gargoyle enemies heading for the town was such a pain for me. First, didn't have any volt abilities and second, I just had to hope they didn't petrify my front line. The time I did it, I only got my second guy petrified on the 3rd gargoyle. Such a pain.
Other buffs can be lifesavers, but elemental buffs really aren't worth the turn it takes to use them, let alone the skill point cost. I believe that buffing someone's weapon to deal elemental damage makes it deal 50% physical and 50% elemental (i'm counting on XoB to correct me if I'm wrong on this), so it won't help as much as you'd think, and the troub can still only enchant one party member at a time.
You can do fine without a protector or beast all the way up to the postgame. If you're aim is to clear the postgame content, you will definitely need to raise one or two up at some point. Nothing to worry about right now, though. I will say that you'll need to gain more levels to take down bosses than most parties, especially without a boss-killing built party member. Climax won't work on any other stratum bosses, just Hellion. Maybe some post game bosses, too, can't remember.
War Magus as only healer is definitely not recommended for newer players, doubly so without a protector up front, for the reasons XoB stated.
In a nutshell, you're doing great with the party you have right now, but be prepared to grind to get past bosses. Also make sure to get your ronin skilled in at least two types of elemental slashes, and carry lots of TP restoratives to power them. If that doesn't bother you, you're golden.
Yeah, I think with my current front line, my medic is required unless I spend a bajillion on nectars. I've won several FOE fights which I couldn't avoid by basically juggling revives on my ronin and dark hunter. The Landsneckt I have in the middle kinda gets sacrificed since several foes seem to have moves that affect adjacent targets.
I switched out my survivalist for my underleveled alchemist (alchemist is like level 14, while the rest of my party is 25ish). He could hold his own, though its making plowing through level 10 a bit slower. I miss all the preemptive attacks I got with my survivalist, but I hesitate to go to with 2 in front, since my guys are a bit delicate.
And, ugh, my guys seem to miss so much more often in this third stratum. Gonna have to spend some points in agi.
chrono_traveller on
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
In a nutshell, you're doing great with the party you have right now, but be prepared to grind to get past bosses. Also make sure to get your ronin skilled in at least two types of elemental slashes, and carry lots of TP restoratives to power them. If that doesn't bother you, you're golden.
Yeah, I have the ice slash, and I'm working on the volt one right now. I'm also working on the TP regen ability of my medic to help with the TP problems. Is it worth spending some points in Tp up as well?
How is the elemental slashes affected by str vs. tec stats?
Other buffs can be lifesavers, but elemental buffs really aren't worth the turn it takes to use them, let alone the skill point cost. I believe that buffing someone's weapon to deal elemental damage makes it deal 50% physical and 50% elemental (i'm counting on XoB to correct me if I'm wrong on this), so it won't help as much as you'd think, and the troub can still only enchant one party member at a time.
Ahhh, I didn't realize that an attack can count as multiple types. Good to know.
Also, (just playing with some ways to switch things up), does a Hexer/War Magus (with the Hypno/Poisoncut abilities) work well as a combo as it looks on paper?
chrono_traveller on
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
In a nutshell, you're doing great with the party you have right now, but be prepared to grind to get past bosses. Also make sure to get your ronin skilled in at least two types of elemental slashes, and carry lots of TP restoratives to power them. If that doesn't bother you, you're golden.
Yeah, I have the ice slash, and I'm working on the volt one right now. I'm also working on the TP regen ability of my medic to help with the TP problems. Is it worth spending some points in Tp up as well?
How is the elemental slashes affected by str vs. tec stats?
Other buffs can be lifesavers, but elemental buffs really aren't worth the turn it takes to use them, let alone the skill point cost. I believe that buffing someone's weapon to deal elemental damage makes it deal 50% physical and 50% elemental (i'm counting on XoB to correct me if I'm wrong on this), so it won't help as much as you'd think, and the troub can still only enchant one party member at a time.
Ahhh, I didn't realize that an attack can count as multiple types. Good to know.
Also, (just playing with some ways to switch things up), does a Hexer/War Magus (with the Hypno/Poisoncut abilities) work well as a combo as it looks on paper?
TP regen has the problem of being too good. In my first run through, I built my medic to have as much longevity as possible, but it went overboard, and he'd still be at 80% TP when everyone else was almost dry. Try to strike a balance wherein all of your party members run out of TP at around the same time, within reason. Points in TP up alone might be enough for your medic. For elemental slashes, I don't believe TEC affects them at all. Some skill prerequisites are weird in requiring stats that have no bearing on them (for example, troubadours needing level 10 +luck before they can get divinity).
I never really tried cursecut combos, so I've no idea on them.
Ahhh, I didn't realize that an attack can count as multiple types. Good to know.
Also, (just playing with some ways to switch things up), does a Hexer/War Magus (with the Hypno/Poisoncut abilities) work well as a combo as it looks on paper?
Ahhh, I didn't realize that an attack can count as multiple types. Good to know.
Also, (just playing with some ways to switch things up), does a Hexer/War Magus (with the Hypno/Poisoncut abilities) work well as a combo as it looks on paper?
Works even better with Corrupt/Cursecut.
I can't figure out what exactly the debuff "curse" does. What does it do?
So, I'm kinda getting pretty bored with my current high level group (Ronin/Land/Dark:Survivalist/Medic) party because for the most part it ends up being auto-attack, and pause every now and again to heal. They are pretty low on TP, so they only use them on FOEs, but unless I really outlevel them, I can only take out one or two foes before I have to head back to town 'cause I have no TP.
I think I'm going to try and work on a team that looks more like War Magus/Protector/Dark Hunter:Hexer/Alchemist. Since it seems like the battles would be a bit more interesting since I'd need to have a bit more input. Though going without a medic seems extremely expensive currently, it'd force me to keep a closer eye on making sure people don't die. Though this party would seem to be very dependent on causing statuses for damage, so I'm not sure how that would work out. This is a pretty wholesale change to my current party, so I'd like any feedback whether this is a horrible idea or not. ;-)
chrono_traveller on
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
Ahhh, I didn't realize that an attack can count as multiple types. Good to know.
Also, (just playing with some ways to switch things up), does a Hexer/War Magus (with the Hypno/Poisoncut abilities) work well as a combo as it looks on paper?
Works even better with Corrupt/Cursecut.
I can't figure out what exactly the debuff "curse" does. What does it do?
Inflicts half damage to itself every time the cursed creature attacks.
The new party you're suggesting is pretty close to my own postgame one (I'm using Protector/Dark/War/Gunner/Hexer), so yes, it should work well enough, but you will need to carry a few nectars at all times.
Only real problem with the War magus as a healer is a poor force skill.
Ahhh, I didn't realize that an attack can count as multiple types. Good to know.
Also, (just playing with some ways to switch things up), does a Hexer/War Magus (with the Hypno/Poisoncut abilities) work well as a combo as it looks on paper?
Works even better with Corrupt/Cursecut.
I can't figure out what exactly the debuff "curse" does. What does it do?
Inflicts half damage to itself every time the cursed creature attacks.
The new party you're suggesting is pretty close to my own postgame one (I'm using Protector/Dark/War/Gunner/Hexer), so yes, it should work well enough, but you will need to carry a few nectars at all times.
Only real problem with the War magus as a healer is a poor force skill.
Eh, I found the War Magus' force skill pretty decent. It's a free full party heal + a weaker version of EO1's Immunize in one skill. Lack of Salve 3 makes it an awesome thing to have when all of a sudden everyone in your party is about to bite the dust.
Maybe not the greatest, but I found it really helped mitigate damage in some of the nastier boss fights.
Ahhh, I didn't realize that an attack can count as multiple types. Good to know.
Also, (just playing with some ways to switch things up), does a Hexer/War Magus (with the Hypno/Poisoncut abilities) work well as a combo as it looks on paper?
Works even better with Corrupt/Cursecut.
I can't figure out what exactly the debuff "curse" does. What does it do?
Inflicts half damage to itself every time the cursed creature attacks.
The new party you're suggesting is pretty close to my own postgame one (I'm using Protector/Dark/War/Gunner/Hexer), so yes, it should work well enough, but you will need to carry a few nectars at all times.
Only real problem with the War magus as a healer is a poor force skill.
Eh, I found the War Magus' force skill pretty decent. It's a free full party heal + a weaker version of EO1's Immunize in one skill. Lack of Salve 3 makes it an awesome thing to have when all of a sudden everyone in your party is about to bite the dust.
Maybe not the greatest, but I found it really helped mitigate damage in some of the nastier boss fights.
Oh, it's not useless, by any means, just among the weaker force skills.
A bit of a thread necro, but what are opinions on the Beast? Rampage looks like a lot of fun, and even 5 levels behind the rest of my party (used to be WRD/GH), he's got more HP than anyone and nearly as much attack power as the Ronin. I wanted a damage soaker to protect the Ronin, and he seems to be possibly too good at it.
The problem is Loyalty--he tends to get unlucky and die a bit too often. I've been sinking points into HP Up and trying to keep everyone in the party well-defended, and he's definitely a capable member of the group. But I'd like to hear from you guys: does Loyalty ever stop being a problem? With it at full, and autocure and that "stay alive at 1 HP" thing it seems like it'd be tolerable, at least. Is it just hopeless? Should I just grab a P instead?
Beast is possibly the worst class in the game. You need a gimmicky as hell party to make one good, involving buffs, luck, dedicated healing, a frontline wall. Their offensive abilities are also sub par, and their equipment has the worst scaling of any of the classes.
The worst part about them is that they seem fine until the end of the fourth stratum or so when enemy damage dealing starts to ramp up and suddenly they are eating AOEs every few encounters, relying on luck and ressurection via medic or item to see them through when they aren't.
A Protector is a much better wall in a lot of ways. The frontline guard is a very cheap way to keep all but the most fragile frontliners alive. Best endgame class by a fair bit too. Worth training two if you have the patience.
Well, if they're fine until the fourth stratum, I might as well keep him around. I can level a P at that point if he starts getting terrible. (Working through floor 7-8 now)
So far, the Beast has been getting great equipment, better than most of the other classes. It sucks to not be able to wear hats and boots and such, but I haven't been complaining. I guess that won't scale, either?
Well, if they're fine until the fourth stratum, I might as well keep him around. I can level a P at that point if he starts getting terrible. (Working through floor 7-8 now)
So far, the Beast has been getting great equipment, better than most of the other classes. It sucks to not be able to wear hats and boots and such, but I haven't been complaining. I guess that won't scale, either?
Beast is a trap. I really liked them until the endgame started kicking in and their flaws become even more apparent.
One trick I did find while using them is to keep Loyalty low. Crazy I know but it does work if the animal is taking the occasional hit instead of taking them like crazy with Loyalty 10.
Xenogears of Bore on
3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
I love my Beast. He can take hits for everyone, prevent their deaths, and do all the scavenging of three people with one skill.
Triple ambush is hax.
Triple multihit is unfair
Triple multihit after Bravery is just plain cheating.
Nice thing about survivalists is that most of their skills suck. You can start cramming points into TP Up after level 30 and never feel bad about it - between that and ambush, you are going to be in the dungeon for a good long time.
Troubadour's only purpose in existence is Bravery - whose damage bonus is insane when multiplied by NINE. Stalker is handy, too.
Medic is just there for CPR against (some) FOEs - everything else is just bonus points. Each survivalist also has 1 pt in "1st Turn" for utility purposes. Let's you instantly re-CPR or immunize if you happen to run into something faster than you - like the final boss. and nothing else.
Beat the game handily, but didn't seem to do very well against the dragons. Possible I just needed to grind more, but I lost interest.
My Beast took me through the entire game (+postgame), so don't feel like you need to give up on him.
He ran with something like 7 points in Loyalty, maxed out HP up, VIT up, and Bodyslam. I don't remember what else, but I'm pretty sure he had the "survive with 1 HP" skill and some points in STR up.
The rest of my team was Dark Hunter, War Magus in the front; Gunner, Gunner in the back.
Well, just beat Hellion with my WRB/GH team with everyone alive at the end (finally). Area attacks do suck pretty terribly already, even with as much HP as the Beast has. Still, that means everyone else is staying alive for the most part, and I haven't even started buying nectars yet. Loyalty 10 helps a bit, since the damage is reduced by a fair amount.
Third Stratum is very pretty! The second was too. I'm definitely a fan of the environment graphics this time around.
Question: How does turn order work? It's not based solely on AGI--my W nearly always goes first, even though he has much less than my R.
Well, just beat Hellion with my WRB/GH team with everyone alive at the end (finally). Area attacks do suck pretty terribly already, even with as much HP as the Beast has. Still, that means everyone else is staying alive for the most part, and I haven't even started buying nectars yet. Loyalty 10 helps a bit, since the damage is reduced by a fair amount.
Third Stratum is very pretty! The second was too. I'm definitely a fan of the environment graphics this time around.
Question: How does turn order work? It's not based solely on AGI--my W nearly always goes first, even though he has much less than my R.
I'm not completely sure, but weapon type does influence it. There's a speed penalty on staves and axes, for example, and swords are pretty fast.
So I don't remember why I quit playing the first game, but I snagged EO2 when I got The Dark Spire last week, found EO1 in my pile, and have some free time to get my Dungeon Crawl on.
Is there any EO->EO2 connectivity or anything?
KiTA on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited May 2009
Don't you get a password at the end of EO where you can carry over your team into EO2?
Edit - ITT things Henroid should know since he made the OP.
Henroid on
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Your team doesn't carry over, but you do get special items.
Third Stratum is very pretty! The second was too. I'm definitely a fan of the environment graphics this time around.
I stopped playing at the third stratum because A) My party had become so obscenely powerful that I was just waltzing into FOEs without a care and blowing them to shreds, and Fucking hell, it's so hard to make stuff out on the DS screen with all that white everywhere.
Question: How does turn order work? It's not based solely on AGI--my W nearly always goes first, even though he has much less than my R.
It is based solely on agility. Skills have an agility modifier, which increases with the skill's level. Like everything else of importance, this is never explained in-game at any point.
For example, level 10 Cure has a 190% agility modifier. Let's say your War Magus has 20 agility. When casting Cure, his turn order is that of a 38 agility character.
Posts
That Alchemy discussion you had last month when I was away is a pretty interesting one. Basically, A's are good but not great single target damage deals and the best AOE damage dealers depending on how they are skilled out. I personally go two elements and one non elemental for type coverage and it works out fine.
Question about some stats, on the wiki (is it abandoned?) in the OP, it says that the LUC stat affects any ability that has a chance of working. So just for clarity, this would include stuff like Hexer's status spells, hit/miss with a weapon, and instant death spells like Climax? Does anyone know how this stat affects these things?
On a side note, how in the world did atlus get an everyone rating when the Dark Hunter has skills (not even thinly veiled) such as cuffs, bondage(I think?) and climax?
Also, I haven't seen Troubador's mentioned much in this thread, is one worth leveling up? I was thinking of giving him the elemental weapon spells so that my Ronin and Landskneckt wouldn't need to worry about equipping the right weapon before the battle.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the axe is fire based which is an added bonus for the ice based third stratum.
But those cost like $texas sized monies. I got both those drops (which helped immensely) but just the bow I think costs like 231k! I dunno, even if I grind the money, won't those weapons kinda take a lot of the strategy out of the game? I beat Hellion on my first try (though just barely, I only had him down to about half when on my last TP I got climax to work), otherwise it wasn't happening at all. If I had those uber weapons so early (I just beat Hellion yesterday), it would take some of the strategy out of those fights.
Volt may actually be more useful for the third stratum, iirc. How is your party faring against FOEs? The physical damagers in my parties seem barely able to scratch newest-floor FOEs, meaning my Alchemist pretty much has to take them down himself.
Yeah, I usually have to be almost autoattacking the regular enemies on the floor above before I can take down most FOEs. But it got incredibly easy towards the end of the 2nd stratum with the ice katana and axe I got. Thats why I'm thinking of leveling a Troubador for his elemental weapon abilities, not sure who I'd replace.
If your only concern is putting out elemental damage, an Alchemist would serve you better. Troub's elemental support skills only buff one person at a time to do element damage, whereas an Alch can either nuke everyone or super-nuke one target right off the first turn. Alchemists can even be built to cast a spell or two each battle and still have TP to spare for taking down FOEs, if you plan his skills well.
That does leave a ton of points to put into stats though, and with the right bow they are still pretty good!
Well, I realize that they're a buff class, so obviously they're not going to be great damage dealers. However, you seem to be saying that that their elemental weapon buffs aren't worth it? Am I reading that right?
Another question: Am I going to be regretting not having a protector later on? My Ronin and Dark Hunter seem to get one-shotted way too much on FOEs for my liking, so I've put a point here and there into HP for them, but the lack of Provoke, which I used on the lower levels is proving somewhat vexing at times.
Also, has anyone gone with a war magus as their healer instead of a medic? I tried for a bit, but I ate through nectars so fast, it made my wallet hurt something fierce.
Edit: 'nother noob question, what can remove petrify? Looking through the skill list, I can only think the medic's refresh(and only maxed?) can do the trick. Are there any items/other skills that can do it? That one quest where there are three gargoyle enemies heading for the town was such a pain for me. First, didn't have any volt abilities and second, I just had to hope they didn't petrify my front line. The time I did it, I only got my second guy petrified on the 3rd gargoyle. Such a pain.
BX certainly does.
Yes, Troubadors are better buffers in the first game, but in both titles the elemental buffs are only of questionable worth.
War Magus have two problems. One is a lack of TP, which can be solved with the Hexer/Curse Cut or copious use of items. Their other problem is no revive/other status healers...which can also be solved by items. Still, if you don't find yourself dying very much they are very capable party members.
Other buffs can be lifesavers, but elemental buffs really aren't worth the turn it takes to use them, let alone the skill point cost. I believe that buffing someone's weapon to deal elemental damage makes it deal 50% physical and 50% elemental (i'm counting on XoB to correct me if I'm wrong on this), so it won't help as much as you'd think, and the troub can still only enchant one party member at a time.
You can do fine without a protector or beast all the way up to the postgame. If you're aim is to clear the postgame content, you will definitely need to raise one or two up at some point. Nothing to worry about right now, though. I will say that you'll need to gain more levels to take down bosses than most parties, especially without a boss-killing built party member. Climax won't work on any other stratum bosses, just Hellion. Maybe some post game bosses, too, can't remember.
War Magus as only healer is definitely not recommended for newer players, doubly so without a protector up front, for the reasons XoB stated.
In a nutshell, you're doing great with the party you have right now, but be prepared to grind to get past bosses. Also make sure to get your ronin skilled in at least two types of elemental slashes, and carry lots of TP restoratives to power them. If that doesn't bother you, you're golden.
I switched out my survivalist for my underleveled alchemist (alchemist is like level 14, while the rest of my party is 25ish). He could hold his own, though its making plowing through level 10 a bit slower. I miss all the preemptive attacks I got with my survivalist, but I hesitate to go to with 2 in front, since my guys are a bit delicate.
And, ugh, my guys seem to miss so much more often in this third stratum. Gonna have to spend some points in agi.
Yeah, I have the ice slash, and I'm working on the volt one right now. I'm also working on the TP regen ability of my medic to help with the TP problems. Is it worth spending some points in Tp up as well?
How is the elemental slashes affected by str vs. tec stats?
Ahhh, I didn't realize that an attack can count as multiple types. Good to know.
Also, (just playing with some ways to switch things up), does a Hexer/War Magus (with the Hypno/Poisoncut abilities) work well as a combo as it looks on paper?
TP regen has the problem of being too good. In my first run through, I built my medic to have as much longevity as possible, but it went overboard, and he'd still be at 80% TP when everyone else was almost dry. Try to strike a balance wherein all of your party members run out of TP at around the same time, within reason. Points in TP up alone might be enough for your medic. For elemental slashes, I don't believe TEC affects them at all. Some skill prerequisites are weird in requiring stats that have no bearing on them (for example, troubadours needing level 10 +luck before they can get divinity).
I never really tried cursecut combos, so I've no idea on them.
Works even better with Corrupt/Cursecut.
I can't figure out what exactly the debuff "curse" does. What does it do?
So, I'm kinda getting pretty bored with my current high level group (Ronin/Land/Dark:Survivalist/Medic) party because for the most part it ends up being auto-attack, and pause every now and again to heal. They are pretty low on TP, so they only use them on FOEs, but unless I really outlevel them, I can only take out one or two foes before I have to head back to town 'cause I have no TP.
I think I'm going to try and work on a team that looks more like War Magus/Protector/Dark Hunter:Hexer/Alchemist. Since it seems like the battles would be a bit more interesting since I'd need to have a bit more input. Though going without a medic seems extremely expensive currently, it'd force me to keep a closer eye on making sure people don't die. Though this party would seem to be very dependent on causing statuses for damage, so I'm not sure how that would work out. This is a pretty wholesale change to my current party, so I'd like any feedback whether this is a horrible idea or not. ;-)
The new party you're suggesting is pretty close to my own postgame one (I'm using Protector/Dark/War/Gunner/Hexer), so yes, it should work well enough, but you will need to carry a few nectars at all times.
Only real problem with the War magus as a healer is a poor force skill.
Maybe not the greatest, but I found it really helped mitigate damage in some of the nastier boss fights.
The problem is Loyalty--he tends to get unlucky and die a bit too often. I've been sinking points into HP Up and trying to keep everyone in the party well-defended, and he's definitely a capable member of the group. But I'd like to hear from you guys: does Loyalty ever stop being a problem? With it at full, and autocure and that "stay alive at 1 HP" thing it seems like it'd be tolerable, at least. Is it just hopeless? Should I just grab a P instead?
The worst part about them is that they seem fine until the end of the fourth stratum or so when enemy damage dealing starts to ramp up and suddenly they are eating AOEs every few encounters, relying on luck and ressurection via medic or item to see them through when they aren't.
A Protector is a much better wall in a lot of ways. The frontline guard is a very cheap way to keep all but the most fragile frontliners alive. Best endgame class by a fair bit too. Worth training two if you have the patience.
So far, the Beast has been getting great equipment, better than most of the other classes. It sucks to not be able to wear hats and boots and such, but I haven't been complaining. I guess that won't scale, either?
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Beast is a trap. I really liked them until the endgame started kicking in and their flaws become even more apparent.
One trick I did find while using them is to keep Loyalty low. Crazy I know but it does work if the animal is taking the occasional hit instead of taking them like crazy with Loyalty 10.
Also, mighty panda.
Survivalist/Survivalist/Survivalist
Troubadour/Medic
Triple ambush is hax.
Triple multihit is unfair
Triple multihit after Bravery is just plain cheating.
Nice thing about survivalists is that most of their skills suck. You can start cramming points into TP Up after level 30 and never feel bad about it - between that and ambush, you are going to be in the dungeon for a good long time.
Troubadour's only purpose in existence is Bravery - whose damage bonus is insane when multiplied by NINE. Stalker is handy, too.
Medic is just there for CPR against (some) FOEs - everything else is just bonus points. Each survivalist also has 1 pt in "1st Turn" for utility purposes. Let's you instantly re-CPR or immunize if you happen to run into something faster than you - like the final boss. and nothing else.
Beat the game handily, but didn't seem to do very well against the dragons. Possible I just needed to grind more, but I lost interest.
He ran with something like 7 points in Loyalty, maxed out HP up, VIT up, and Bodyslam. I don't remember what else, but I'm pretty sure he had the "survive with 1 HP" skill and some points in STR up.
The rest of my team was Dark Hunter, War Magus in the front; Gunner, Gunner in the back.
Oh, and a boatload of Axcela 2's for the final final boss.
Most normal things died before I had to worry about getting hurt too bad.
Third Stratum is very pretty! The second was too. I'm definitely a fan of the environment graphics this time around.
Question: How does turn order work? It's not based solely on AGI--my W nearly always goes first, even though he has much less than my R.
I'm not completely sure, but weapon type does influence it. There's a speed penalty on staves and axes, for example, and swords are pretty fast.
Is there any EO->EO2 connectivity or anything?
Edit - ITT things Henroid should know since he made the OP.
I remade most of my old team in spirit, anyway.
And slippery floor puzzles suck.
Hard.
It is based solely on agility. Skills have an agility modifier, which increases with the skill's level. Like everything else of importance, this is never explained in-game at any point.
For example, level 10 Cure has a 190% agility modifier. Let's say your War Magus has 20 agility. When casting Cure, his turn order is that of a 38 agility character.
I loved the icy floors. Much more interesting to map and explore, to me, than the
EDIT: KiTA, the old thread has all the EO1 info you need (and mostly in the OP).
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
I should get around to restructuring this thread's OP to be as informative instead of being full of dumb shit.