Metal Gear Solid

unpurposed

So I recently got a PSP for the long train rides I usually take every weekend and the guy I bought it from threw in MGS:PO. I've been really interested in MGS even though I've never played them but I usually never hear anything but praise for these games. However, I have no idea where to start and thus some input would be appreciated. Also, this is probably a good thing to mention, but I'm about to (hopefully) buy a PS2 since I've never had one. Thanks guys. Bestow your wisdom upon this thread.

Htown

If you've got a Wii or a Gamecube, get Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes. And don't listen to anyone who tells you not to. Waaah, the cutscenes are too over-the-top, boo-hoo I take things too seriously, abloo abloo nothing in Metal Gear is the slightest bit unrealistic.

Twin Snakes is so good.

Carnarvon

Htown wrote: »

Twin Snakes is so good.

I concur, pick up Twin Snakes. It's awesome.

UnbreakableVow

Twin Snakes is good, but I prefer the original.

Yes, the cutscenes are too way over the top in comparison to the original MGS. Maybe not to 2 and 3, but, well, that's why those two aren't as cool as the first one.

mntorankusu

Htown wrote: »

If you've got a Wii or a Gamecube, get Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes. And don't listen to anyone who tells you not to. Waaah, the cutscenes are too over-the-top, boo-hoo I take things too seriously, abloo abloo nothing in Metal Gear is the slightest bit unrealistic.

Twin Snakes is so good.

Yeah. Even if you do think the cutscenes in TTS are too over-the-top, for someone who's never played it before, the original on the PSX is basically unplayable these days.

There's a box set of MGS (PSX), MGS2:Substance and MGS3:Subsistence coming out soon, for $30. Get that once you get a PS2, and Twin Snakes if you have a GC or Wii, and you'll be set. Until you get addicted and have to buy a PS3 for MGS4.

Speed Racer

If you don't like some version or another of MGS1 or MGS3, there's something wrong with you. Terribly, terribly wrong.

I personally loved the shit out of MGS2, but I can also understand why some people hate it.

Dirty

Yeah, Twin Snakes is good, but I've found that its a bit too easy. They added the ability to shoot from a 1st person perspective, and the game wasn't designed with that in mind, so using that ability makes it way easier than the PS1 version. I have more fun with it when I try to resist the urge to kill the soldiers that way.

Definately get the PS2, there is a MGS collection coming out for it soon (MGS1,2,3). Even if you get the collection, still pick up Twin Snakes if you have a Cube/Wii. Its really hard going back to those PS1 graphics.

Play them in order. The storyline is very important in this series, and jumping around will just make you more confused (MGS2 will confuse you enough, and even more so if you haven't played MGS1).

edit: The Metal Gear Solid Collection includes the definitive versions of MGS2&3 (Substance and Subsistence). After playing Subsistence, I find the regular version of MGS3 almost unplayable.

mntorankusu

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

If you don't like some version or another of MGS1 or MGS3, there's something wrong with you. Terribly, terribly wrong.

I personally loved the shit out of MGS2, but I can also understand why some people hate it.

Even if you hate MGS2's story, the amount of content in the Snake Tales and VR Missions is enough to make Substance worth it.

UnbreakableVow

What? How is MGS1 unplayable at all? I play it almost yearly, and it's stood the test of time quite well.

Speed Racer

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

What? How is MGS1 unplayable at all? I play it almost yearly, and it's stood the test of time quite well.

Yeah, I've never played MGS1, but looking at the flashbacks to it in MGS2, its graphics are surprisingly decent.

mntorankusu

I'm not talking about the graphics. The graphics are fine. I just think the gameplay is really super-clunky. I played it after playing TS and MGS2, and I can't imagine playing through it again.

Regicid3

I loaded up MGS1 last year and played through it twice in a couple of days. It's far from unplayable. I wouldn't buy Twin Snakes though because fuck Yoshi figurines.

Speed Racer

Boy you got something against Yoshi figurines.


Really, I hate Otacon with a burning passion. He was kind of funny but mostly annoying in 1, then in two I just wanted to kill him.

Xenogears of Bore

TTS would have been perfect if it only had the VR missions. All of them, especially the ones from Integral.

TTS really isn't that much easier. In fact its a harder game to get Big Boss ranking on I find.

My order of ops is probably:

TTS>MGS 3:S>MGS 3:SE>MGS (GBC)>MGS>MGS 2:S>MGS 2 SOL>MG2>MG>Snake's Revenge

Portable Ops is ok, haven't beaten it yet so I can't rank it yet, it'll probably be somewhere between Ghost Babel and MGS 2.

Speed Racer

I've only played TTS and the original version of the two others, but I'd say MGS2 is my favorite and that TTS and 3 are perfectly tied for 2nd.

UnbreakableVow

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

TTS would have been perfect if it only had the VR missions. All of them, especially the ones from Integral.

TTS really isn't that much easier. In fact its a harder game to get Big Boss ranking on I find.

My order of ops is probably:

TTS>MGS 3:S>MGS 3:SE>MGS (GBC)>MGS>MGS 2:S>MGS 2 SOL>MG2>MG>Snake's Revenge

Portable Ops is ok, haven't beaten it yet so I can't rank it yet, it'll probably be somewhere between Ghost Babel and MGS 2.

Damn. What's cool about the MG series is that people have so many different opinions on the games when only five have been released so far in the main story line. It's like a smaller, concentrated FF, only better because people pretty much like all of them (except for 2, for some reason).

My order is:

MGS2: S > MGS2 > MGS > MGS TTT > MG Acid > MG3:S > MGS3 > MG GBC > MG2 > MG > Snake's Revenge

Haven't played Portable Ops or Acid 2 yet. Man, I love me some Acid 1 though. Really makes me wish I had a PSP.

Speed Racer

Are the original Metal Gear games any good?

UnbreakableVow

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

Are the original Metal Gear games any good?

They're very tough to get into nowadays, but they're definitely worth a shot, especially if you have Subsistence.

unpurposed

So which ones are the absolutely essential ones to cut my teeth on? And which order should I play them in?

Speed Racer

unpurposed wrote: »

So which ones are the absolutely essential ones to cut my teeth on? And which order should I play them in?

Twin Snakes, any version of MGS2, MGS3: Subsistence. If you still want more, Subsistence has the original 8-bit games also.

I'd also recommend reading a brief summary of the first two MG games since MGS1 refers to them a lot.

UnbreakableVow

If you can find the original MGS (they may do it in Twin Snakes, don't remember), they tell you the story of the previous games in the instruction manual. And they can both be summed up on one page, you're given all the vital info. From that point, it's MGS, MGS2: Substance if you can find it (easy to find on Xbox, maybe $35 on eBay for PS2), Sons of Liberty if you can't. Then MGS3: Subsistence, which should be easy to find. Portable Ops is on PSP and apparently provides a cool post-story to MGS3, but I've heard it's nothing absolutely essential.

That's all you need for the main story arc. Metal Gear Solid GBC and the Acid games are not canon, but still good fun.

Speed Racer

My local gamestop had used copies of Sons of Liberty and Snake Eater for $5 a piece a while back, Substance for $15 and Subsistence for $20. It might be worth it to check that out.

Speed Racer

You know, again, I loved MGS2, but there's one plot element that's been nagging me ever since I finished it. Major spoilers:

Why is Solidus fighting against Snake and Raiden? All of them want the same thing, to destroy The Patriots. Couldn't they accomplish that much easier by working together? I know they had that ham-handed "Oh Raiden your nanobots might tell me where The Patriots are so I've gotta kill you and get 'em out" thing right before the final boss fight, but come on.

Fig-D

I have my original copy of the PSX MGS, I have Twin Snakes on Cube, I have MGS2 Substance AND "Document of Metal Gear Solid," and I have the 4 disc monstrosity that is MGS3 Subsistence Limited Edition.

I am a MGS whore.

Oh gee and look at my sig / avatar, guess who I'm maining in Smash Bros? That's right, Luigi.

Xenogears of Bore

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

You know, again, I loved MGS2, but there's one plot element that's been nagging me ever since I finished it. Major spoilers:

Why is Solidus fighting against Snake and Raiden? All of them want the same thing, to destroy The Patriots. Couldn't they accomplish that much easier by working together? I know they had that ham-handed "Oh Raiden your nanobots might tell me where The Patriots are so I've gotta kill you and get 'em out" thing right before the final boss fight, but come on.

Raiden is fighting for the Patriots basically, and Solidus just plain doesn't like Snake. Also I don't think either of them really like his plan for resting control away from the Patriots, as he is another Outer Heaven loving psychopath.

UnbreakableVow

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

You know, again, I loved MGS2, but there's one plot element that's been nagging me ever since I finished it. Major spoilers:

Why is Solidus fighting against Snake and Raiden? All of them want the same thing, to destroy The Patriots. Couldn't they accomplish that much easier by working together? I know they had that ham-handed "Oh Raiden your nanobots might tell me where The Patriots are so I've gotta kill you and get 'em out" thing right before the final boss fight, but come on.

I don't see what's wrong with that.

Major spoilers

He states that he has "other reasons" for wanting him dead, personal reasons that we may never know. However, he says that the data containing the real names of the Patriots had been erased from GW and the only traces were left in Raiden's nanomachines.

UnbreakableVow

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

You know, again, I loved MGS2, but there's one plot element that's been nagging me ever since I finished it. Major spoilers:

Why is Solidus fighting against Snake and Raiden? All of them want the same thing, to destroy The Patriots. Couldn't they accomplish that much easier by working together? I know they had that ham-handed "Oh Raiden your nanobots might tell me where The Patriots are so I've gotta kill you and get 'em out" thing right before the final boss fight, but come on.

Raiden is fighting for the Patriots basically, and Solidus just plain doesn't like Snake. Also I don't think either of them really like his plan for resting control away from the Patriots, as he is another Outer Heaven loving psychopath.

This, coupled along with the fact that

they may realize (or may not, it's left up to the player) that like President Johnson said, the Patriots is an organization that must continue to exist.

In many ways, Solidus Snake is the anti-hero of MGS2.

Xenogears of Bore

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

You know, again, I loved MGS2, but there's one plot element that's been nagging me ever since I finished it. Major spoilers:

Why is Solidus fighting against Snake and Raiden? All of them want the same thing, to destroy The Patriots. Couldn't they accomplish that much easier by working together? I know they had that ham-handed "Oh Raiden your nanobots might tell me where The Patriots are so I've gotta kill you and get 'em out" thing right before the final boss fight, but come on.

Raiden is fighting for the Patriots basically, and Solidus just plain doesn't like Snake. Also I don't think either of them really like his plan for resting control away from the Patriots, as he is another Outer Heaven loving psychopath.

This, coupled along with the fact that

they may realize (or may not, it's left up to the player) that like President Johnson said, the Patriots is an organization that must continue to exist.

In many ways, Solidus Snake is the anti-hero of MGS2.

Another good point. Solidus if successful with his plan would have thrown the world into utter chaos which in practice is much worse than the secret machinations of the *RADIO EDIT*.

Edited for people who haven't played MGS 2, 3, PO, read In the Darkness of Shadow Moses and yet stumbled into this thread.

UnbreakableVow

I would spoiler that, man.

Xenogears of Bore

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

I would spoiler that, man.

spoiler what? There is no plot in that.

UnbreakableVow

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

I would spoiler that, man.

spoiler what? There is no plot in that.

Imagine yourself pre-MGS2 and read that sentence. You would now already know that there is apparently some giant shadow organization called the Patriots behind the scenes.

Speed Racer

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

You know, again, I loved MGS2, but there's one plot element that's been nagging me ever since I finished it. Major spoilers:

Why is Solidus fighting against Snake and Raiden? All of them want the same thing, to destroy The Patriots. Couldn't they accomplish that much easier by working together? I know they had that ham-handed "Oh Raiden your nanobots might tell me where The Patriots are so I've gotta kill you and get 'em out" thing right before the final boss fight, but come on.

Raiden is fighting for the Patriots basically, and Solidus just plain doesn't like Snake. Also I don't think either of them really like his plan for resting control away from the Patriots, as he is another Outer Heaven loving psychopath.

I didn't really see Raiden as fighting for The Patriots once he teamed up with Snake and the crazy shit in Jejunum went down. It's true that he fights Solidus like he's told, but that's really more out of self-defense than anything.

That was one aspect I found really interesting. In all technicality, you could "beat" The Patriots by losing the fight against Solidus, turning the console off and never playing the game again. You fight him anyway though because the structure of games has your mind set into the mold of "beat the last boss and win the game," even though you know full well that you're empowering the greater antagonist by doing so. I just thought it was a neat way that the game explored its ideas of control.

Fig-D

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

I would spoiler that, man.

spoiler what? There is no plot in that.

Imagine yourself pre-MGS2 and read that sentence. You would now already know that there is apparently some giant shadow organization called the Patriots behind the scenes.

I understand the need for spoilers, but
1. MGS2 was released in the PS2 launch window.
2. MGS4 is called Guns of the Patriots
3. The MGS4 trailer(s)

I think people are past the point of not knowing that particular aspect of the MGS series.

Speed Racer

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

You know, again, I loved MGS2, but there's one plot element that's been nagging me ever since I finished it. Major spoilers:

Why is Solidus fighting against Snake and Raiden? All of them want the same thing, to destroy The Patriots. Couldn't they accomplish that much easier by working together? I know they had that ham-handed "Oh Raiden your nanobots might tell me where The Patriots are so I've gotta kill you and get 'em out" thing right before the final boss fight, but come on.

Raiden is fighting for the Patriots basically, and Solidus just plain doesn't like Snake. Also I don't think either of them really like his plan for resting control away from the Patriots, as he is another Outer Heaven loving psychopath.

This, coupled along with the fact that

they may realize (or may not, it's left up to the player) that like President Johnson said, the Patriots is an organization that must continue to exist.

In many ways, Solidus Snake is the anti-hero of MGS2.

That can't be right, because Snake goes off to rock the fuck out of The Patriots at the end of the game.

Speed Racer

Fig-D wrote: »

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

I would spoiler that, man.

spoiler what? There is no plot in that.

Imagine yourself pre-MGS2 and read that sentence. You would now already know that there is apparently some giant shadow organization called the Patriots behind the scenes.

I understand the need for spoilers, but
1. MGS2 was released in the PS2 launch window.
2. MGS4 is called Guns of the Patriots
3. The MGS4 trailer(s)

I think people are past the point of not knowing that particular aspect of the MGS series.

If this weren't an LttP thread I'd agree. But it is.

UnbreakableVow

Meh, I was just trying to make the thread relatively safe for the MGS virgin who started it.

I suppose 4's title is a bit of a giveaway, though.

Speed Racer

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

Meh, I was just trying to make the thread relatively safe for the MGS virgin who started it.

I suppose 4's title is a bit of a giveaway, though.

Not at all. I heard 4's title before playing any MGS game, and I had thought that Snake and crew were The Patriots and thought it was gonna have something to do with, you know, patriotism.

UnbreakableVow

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

You know, again, I loved MGS2, but there's one plot element that's been nagging me ever since I finished it. Major spoilers:

Why is Solidus fighting against Snake and Raiden? All of them want the same thing, to destroy The Patriots. Couldn't they accomplish that much easier by working together? I know they had that ham-handed "Oh Raiden your nanobots might tell me where The Patriots are so I've gotta kill you and get 'em out" thing right before the final boss fight, but come on.

Raiden is fighting for the Patriots basically, and Solidus just plain doesn't like Snake. Also I don't think either of them really like his plan for resting control away from the Patriots, as he is another Outer Heaven loving psychopath.

This, coupled along with the fact that

they may realize (or may not, it's left up to the player) that like President Johnson said, the Patriots is an organization that must continue to exist.

In many ways, Solidus Snake is the anti-hero of MGS2.

That can't be right, because Snake goes off to rock the fuck out of The Patriots at the end of the game.

I suppose we'll find out more about it in MGS4.

But

Do you believe he really intends to kill the Patriots? To end their dominance? What would happen to America? The world? What about you, what do you as a player think? I think if such an organization had such a hold in the real world, I would agree with President Johnson. A well-staged drama that gives the false image of democracy.

Xenogears of Bore

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

You know, again, I loved MGS2, but there's one plot element that's been nagging me ever since I finished it. Major spoilers:

Why is Solidus fighting against Snake and Raiden? All of them want the same thing, to destroy The Patriots. Couldn't they accomplish that much easier by working together? I know they had that ham-handed "Oh Raiden your nanobots might tell me where The Patriots are so I've gotta kill you and get 'em out" thing right before the final boss fight, but come on.

Raiden is fighting for the Patriots basically, and Solidus just plain doesn't like Snake. Also I don't think either of them really like his plan for resting control away from the Patriots, as he is another Outer Heaven loving psychopath.

This, coupled along with the fact that

they may realize (or may not, it's left up to the player) that like President Johnson said, the Patriots is an organization that must continue to exist.

In many ways, Solidus Snake is the anti-hero of MGS2.

That can't be right, because Snake goes off to rock the fuck out of The Patriots at the end of the game.

Solidus plain old doesn't like Snake. Didn't he ruin his first plan for taking over by Destroying REX? Didn't he cost him an eye? Also, he sure as shit doesn't want no Outer Heaven being formed nor any Metal Gears running around, so that's plenty of reason for Snake and Solidus not to get along. The Patriots are pretty far down on Snake's to do list.

Fig-D

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

UnbreakableVow wrote: »

Xenogears of Bore wrote: »

Mushroom Pie wrote: »

You know, again, I loved MGS2, but there's one plot element that's been nagging me ever since I finished it. Major spoilers:

Why is Solidus fighting against Snake and Raiden? All of them want the same thing, to destroy The Patriots. Couldn't they accomplish that much easier by working together? I know they had that ham-handed "Oh Raiden your nanobots might tell me where The Patriots are so I've gotta kill you and get 'em out" thing right before the final boss fight, but come on.

Raiden is fighting for the Patriots basically, and Solidus just plain doesn't like Snake. Also I don't think either of them really like his plan for resting control away from the Patriots, as he is another Outer Heaven loving psychopath.

This, coupled along with the fact that

they may realize (or may not, it's left up to the player) that like President Johnson said, the Patriots is an organization that must continue to exist.

In many ways, Solidus Snake is the anti-hero of MGS2.

That can't be right, because Snake goes off to rock the fuck out of The Patriots at the end of the game.

Solidus plain old doesn't like Snake. Didn't he ruin his first plan for taking over by Destroying REX? Didn't he cost him an eye? Also, he sure as shit doesn't want no Outer Heaven being formed nor any Metal Gears running around, so that's plenty of reason for Snake and Solidus not to get along. The Patriots are pretty far down on Snake's to do list.

I don't remember Snake having anything to do with Solidus' eye... he loses it after the Harrier battle with Raiden.

UnbreakableVow

Solidus' vision problems are all thanks to Raiden.

I guess you could argue that Snake supplied Raiden with the Stingers.