You know, again, I loved MGS2, but there's one plot element that's been nagging me ever since I finished it. Major spoilers:
Why is Solidus fighting against Snake and Raiden? All of them want the same thing, to destroy The Patriots. Couldn't they accomplish that much easier by working together? I know they had that ham-handed "Oh Raiden your nanobots might tell me where The Patriots are so I've gotta kill you and get 'em out" thing right before the final boss fight, but come on.
Raiden is fighting for the Patriots basically, and Solidus just plain doesn't like Snake. Also I don't think either of them really like his plan for resting control away from the Patriots, as he is another Outer Heaven loving psychopath.
This, coupled along with the fact that
they may realize (or may not, it's left up to the player) that like President Johnson said, the Patriots is an organization that must continue to exist.
In many ways, Solidus Snake is the anti-hero of MGS2.
That can't be right, because Snake goes off to rock the fuck out of The Patriots at the end of the game.
I suppose we'll find out more about it in MGS4.
But
Do you believe he really intends to kill the Patriots? To end their dominance? What would happen to America? The world? What about you, what do you as a player think? I think if such an organization had such a hold in the real world, I would agree with President Johnson. A well-staged drama that gives the false image of democracy.
At the end of MGS2, Outer Heaven is inevitable; either Solid throws the world into chaos by destroying the Patriots, or Liquid uses Arsenal Gear and potentially the Patriots to do it, as it seems like he's done in MGS4 (I haven't been keeping up with info about it much, but that's the gist I've gotten). If the world's gonna get fucked one way or another, it may as well be by destroying an evil organization.
only better because people pretty much like all of them (except for 2, for some reason).
Vamp is lame, Snake's character is undermined, Otacon gets really whiny and has an excessively messed up backstory hoisted on him, and Rose just needs to die. That's why for me at least, and if it weren't for those then I would like it.
Well, that and you don't get to play as Snake for the whole thing. I mean, I know there's a bit of a philosophical thing or whatever with that, but it's motherfucking Snake, come on.
Also, I think it's kind of funny that mentioning
The Patriots
is thought of as too much, but "After he teams up with Snake" is alright.
Vamp is awesome. How is Snake's character undermined?
And I actually prefer Raiden to Snake in pretty much every way possible. That's not to say I hate Snake, far from it, but I think people unfairly take their hatred of Rose and hoist it onto Raiden.
I mean, come on.
He was a child soldier. Every obstacle that Snake overcomes, Raiden does and then some. Snake takes on a large man with a big gun. Raiden takes on a large man with a machine gun, explosives and fucking roller skates. Snake takes down a helicopter. Raiden takes down a Harrier. Snake takes down Metal Gear Rex. Raiden takes down at least five Metal Gear models that were meant to handily dispose of Rex.
Not to mention he's incredibly more fit and agile.
Vamp is lame. They already did the unkillable dude thing once in the series. Chinaman though, I liked him.
Also, I really like Raiden too, not as much as Snake.
I love the idea that Raiden is a failure when he's trying to be Snake, and only really becomes his own character when he picks up that sword and does something Snake wouldn't do.
Snake is hilarious in two. He has all the good codec conversations.
Vamp is awesome. How is Snake's character undermined?
And I actually prefer Raiden to Snake in pretty much every way possible. That's not to say I hate Snake, far from it, but I think people unfairly take their hatred of Rose and hoist it onto Raiden.
I mean, come on.
He was a child soldier. Every obstacle that Snake overcomes, Raiden does and then some. Snake takes on a large man with a big gun. Raiden takes on a large man with a machine gun, explosives and fucking roller skates. Snake takes down a helicopter. Raiden takes down a Harrier. Snake takes down Metal Gear Rex. Raiden takes down at least five Metal Gear models that were meant to handily dispose of Rex.
Not to mention he's incredibly more fit and agile.
And apparently unlike Snake and his genetic brethren, Raiden ain't shootin' blanks. :winky:
Am I the only person out there that hopes that the Ninjified version of Raiden is a swerve? I think he looks stupid and would prefer nancy Raiden any day of the week.
Am I the only person out there that hopes that the Ninjified version of Raiden is a swerve? I think he looks stupid and would prefer nancy Raiden any day of the week.
You're not alone. I prefer the older. Though I just don't like the way the facial model looks, basically. The rest I'm okay with.
I just picked up a PS3, and bought MGS3 Subsistence shortly after.
MGS is my favorite game of all time. I didn't really like 2 when I played it the first time, nor did I like it very much when I played it through again recently. The first time I played Snake Eater, I never even finished it. So hopefully this time I'll like it a bit more than I did the first time.
"Why didn't you tell me?"
"You didn't ask."
I mean come on, is he eight?
Also, I'm not saying I dislike Raiden, and in fact do think he garners an unfair amount of hate, but if it's ever between him and Solid Mother-fuckin' Snake the choice is clear.
"Why didn't you tell me?"
"You didn't ask."
I mean come on, is he eight?
That sounds very Snake-like, even MGS1 Snake. He was kept on a need-to-know basis in MGS; it's reasonable to assume he would do the same to someone else.
I didn't bother counting Substance or Subsistence as seperate versions because it's pretty damn obvious which is the better choice. VR Missions though, was an add-on disc, so I included it seperately.
Oh and the proper name for the GBC MG is Metal Gear: Ghost Babel.
Fig-D: First off, MGS2 was released nearly an entire year after the PS2 launch, which is NOT launch window. You can also add another 6 months onto the 11 if you count the Japanese PS2 launch.
Secondly, did you even bother to read the OP? Christ, it's pretty damn obvious he hasn't played MGS2 yet.
Is MGS2: Substance backwards compatible on 360? I've always meant to buy that--haven't played MGS2 aside from one time on PS2 six years ago, and I never owned it.
Is MGS2: Substance backwards compatible on 360? I've always meant to buy that--haven't played MGS2 aside from one time on PS2 six years ago, and I never owned it.
If you wanna play MGS2, you should buy a cheap PS2 and get MGS3:S, which is the best MGS game in the entire universe (4th dimensionally speaking).
Is MGS2: Substance backwards compatible on 360? I've always meant to buy that--haven't played MGS2 aside from one time on PS2 six years ago, and I never owned it.
No, but it at times barely ran on the oxbox, so I'm not surprised. May as well just grab a PS2 and the $30 compilation of the PS1/PS2 games in March.
Is MGS2: Substance backwards compatible on 360? I've always meant to buy that--haven't played MGS2 aside from one time on PS2 six years ago, and I never owned it.
No, which pisses me off. I now have a completely useless disc and my MG collection is incomplete. But, honestly, I've already beat it twice and plan on picking up The Essential Collection anyways, so whatever.
But, definitely pick up the Essential Collection, OP, as it should contain five games (As long as it comes with the second Subsistence disc). After that, Portable Ops. The two Acid games and Ghost Babel aren't canon, so you can skip them if you want (Hated both Acid games, personally, although Ghost Babel was one of the best Game Boy games I've ever played). Twin Snakes is optional. It gets mixed reaction due to its slightly easier difficulty and over-the-top cutscenes, but I find it more enjoyable then the original.
This'll leave you ready to play MGS4 whenever it comes out.
Lemmie throw him a PM so he can post in here. You will then know the true meaning of fanboy.
I'm here, and yeah I suppose I am a bit of a boy who is a fan.
I'm waiting til MGS4 comes out to take a new picture of all my Metal Gear stuff, between all the games, strategy guides, action figures, etc.
I've already preordered the Essential Collection. Even though I have all of those games (both versions of each) I wanted to get them again since my two copies of MGS for PSX are pretty haggard now.
Hey Shim, what's that case with the 5 stars next to The Document? Also, what's the difference between your red Subsistence and my green one?
The case with 5 stars is The Metal Gear Saga Vol. 1. It was a EB/Stop preorder bonus with Metal Gear Solid 3 Subsistence (North American) It's basically a 30 minute documentary DVD of the Metal Gear games.
The red Subsistence is the outer-box that Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence Special Edition came in. The Special edition was just the same as the normal, except that it came in that red outer-box and it came with the cinematic disc of MGS3 which is the red/orange case right next to the red Subsistence box.
The cinematic disc was basically all of the cutscenes from MGS3 cut together in movie form. It's not as great as it sounds though, but I don't mind having it.
Woah, woah, woah, hang on a sec, when did people suddenley start to defend Raiden? Is it because everyone saw him in the ninja suit for MGS4? I personally have nothing that I like perticularly about the character, but I really enjoyed the fact you played as him in MGS2 as there was nothing cooler fighting alongside Solid Snake, like playing as Nero in DMC4 with Dante as your buddy. Seeing them do their own thing was awesome.
Also, I'm going to save the origonal poster a LOT of grief
When you are told the code is on the back of the package, look at the back of the case the game came in, Meryl's codec frequency is in the screenshot on the back cover. Also, Psyco Mantis commenting that I liked Zelda games was awesome, although I didn't enjoy Twin Snakes thanks to the shitty Gamecube controls for it. Gamecube controllers are fine, I love them, but they do not work for MGS
Woah, woah, woah, hang on a sec, when did people suddenley start to defend Raiden? Is it because everyone saw him in the ninja suit for MGS4?
Nope, LONG before that.
People started defending him because they realized that they really just hated his girlfriend, which is fair. Raiden wasn't a bad character, he was just young and not-Snake. Once most people got over not being Snake (which has taken some a LONG time) they accepted Raiden. He's actually a pretty well developed character with a great back story that parallels Snake's.
Besides, the whole point of him was to develop Snake's character from a sort of 2nd party.
But yeah, some people did come around after they saw Super-Badass-Cyber-Raiden.
only better because people pretty much like all of them (except for 2, for some reason).
Vamp is lame, Snake's character is undermined, Otacon gets really whiny and has an excessively messed up backstory hoisted on him, and Rose just needs to die. That's why for me at least, and if it weren't for those then I would like it.
Well, that and you don't get to play as Snake for the whole thing. I mean, I know there's a bit of a philosophical thing or whatever with that, but it's motherfucking Snake, come on.
Also, I think it's kind of funny that mentioning
The Patriots
is thought of as too much, but "After he teams up with Snake" is alright.
The problem with most of those complaints is that you didn't "get" MGS2 if that's why you don't like it.
I had no problem with Raiden on my first playthrough. I was annoyed by Rose to be sure, but never had issues with "Jack." It wasn't until I started reading online that I found out I was supposed to hate him. So I put my MGS2 disc in the microwave.
(there are other AIs besides GW,as GW stands for George Washington, as Raiden speaks with another AI named "JFK, which stands for John F. Kennedy" prior to his battle with Solidus, but they are unrelated to this Arsenal Gear. The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 actually reveals that the Arsenal below the Big Shell is not the only one, and each Arsenal is run by its own networked AI system).
Does it ever use the name "JFK" in-game?
What exactly is this "Document" and how can I read it?
(there are other AIs besides GW,as GW stands for George Washington, as Raiden speaks with another AI named "JFK, which stands for John F. Kennedy" prior to his battle with Solidus, but they are unrelated to this Arsenal Gear. The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 actually reveals that the Arsenal below the Big Shell is not the only one, and each Arsenal is run by its own networked AI system).
Does it ever use the name "JFK" in-game?
What exactly is this "Document" and how can I read it?
Document was a limited edition, $20 disc that came out between MGS2 and Substance. It had an assload of conceptual work for MGS2, including discarded portions of scripts, concept art, a timeline of production, etc.
I only loved MGS2 after I finished my second playthrough, a playtrough mostly to try and deschipher the story since it went over my head and confused me so much the first time in so many ways. After getting frustrated and confused even more so after my second runthrough, I realsied, "Wait a second, maybe Kojima is just fucking batshit insane" and just went along with the idea that the only reason that there are crazy super bisexual vampires fighting alongside physics bending witches carrying experimtal weaponry is because Kojima just wanted to fuck with our heads.
I enjoyed the game much, much more when I just went along with the joke instead of tryng to make sense of it. My favorite two moments are still (near the end spoilers)
The scene where nearly the entire cast of bad guys of the game are standing on top of Arsnel gear and are as confused as you are about the story. "Ha HA! It was me all along!" "No, wait a second, it was all ME DOUBLE CROSSING YOU ALL!" "Wait, what? AGH! MY MIND IS BEING CONTROLLED!" "Holy shit, I actually DO have psycic powers?!" . That entire scene cracks me up so much, the story is so messed up even the characters don't know what the fuck is going on anymore
The line - "Inifnate ammo, kid"
One thing I did really like about Raiden was the fact that he was saying what was on our mind all the time. I could relate to his sheer confusion and compulsion to ask what the fuck is going on.
I only loved MGS2 after I finished my second playthrough, a playtrough mostly to try and deschipher the story since it went over my head and confused me so much the first time in so many ways. After getting frustrated and confused even more so after my second runthrough, I realsied, "Wait a second, maybe Kojima is just fucking batshit insane" and just went along with the idea that the only reason that there are crazy super bisexual vampires fighting alongside physics bending witches carrying experimtal weaponry is because Kojima just wanted to fuck with our heads.
I enjoyed the game much, much more when I just went along with the joke instead of tryng to make sense of it. My favorite two moments are still (near the end spoilers)
The scene where nearly the entire cast of bad guys of the game are standing on top of Arsnel gear and are as confused as you are about the story. "Ha HA! It was me all along!" "No, wait a second, it was all ME DOUBLE CROSSING YOU ALL!" "Wait, what? AGH! MY MIND IS BEING CONTROLLED!" "Holy shit, I actually DO have psycic powers?!" . That entire scene cracks me up so much, the story is so messed up even the characters don't know what the fuck is going on anymore
The line - "Inifnate ammo, kid"
One thing I did really like about Raiden was the fact that he was saying what was on our mind all the time. I could relate to his sheer confusion and compulsion to ask what the fuck is going on.
Damn, I need to play this game again now.
I disliked MGS3 because it was so toned down and simplified, storywise. Some of the whackyness was still there, but they didn't shove it in your face with constant codec conversations; you actually had to dig for it, and even then there was alot less.
Also, it didn't really clarify any of the nonsense from MGS2, even when it explained who the philosophers were, it seemed like it was barely connected to MGS2.
Good to see some other MGS "fanboys" here on the PA Forums. I myself am a massive MGS Whore.
Gonna spoiler my "Collection List" for the people that don't really care.
Got the original PSX MGS, as well as The Twin Snakes, original copy of MGS2 (with bonus DVD) and Substance (with The Document), original Snake Eater and Subsistence, and Portable Ops. Also got the first volume of the comic book series, all the McFarlane Sons Of Liberty figures and a couple of the MGS1 figures, aswell as the soundtracks to the first three games. Also have a couple of the 20th Anniversary Kubrick Figures.
Anyway, I've always been a Raiden fan, I thought it was very clever of Kojima to pull such a swerve like that. The story for MGS2 is very hard to follow and very metaphorical (in a sense) and I always liked that, especially after the gritty realism of MGS1.
I don't care how much you dislike the rest of MGS2, anyone who doesn't think that Jejunum is one of the best moments in any game ever can fuck right off.
Just want to throw in that Metal Gear Ac!d kicks ass, although in mostly into the MGS games for their gameplay. In that respect MGS3 is may fave thanks to the mechanics being so much more refined than 2's. 2's were good but Big Shell didn't intergrate them as well as Groznygrad (sp?) did.
Also, [MGS3] didn't really clarify any of the nonsense from MGS2, even when it explained who the philosophers were, it seemed like it was barely connected to MGS2.
Well, ...
It wasn't really a question of who they were, but rather, "How did they come to be?" That question is answered pretty well in MGS3, explaining how the Philosophers came to be, and how the american members split off and became the Patriots. The only questions remaining are: a) How did they become the non-human supernatural entities they told Raiden they were? and b) "They've been dead for 100 years?"
Now, its possible that both Snake and Raiden were given data that was flat out wrong. In that case, those questions don't really matter. I personally think what they told Raiden was rubbish, intended to further confuse and disorient him.
Also, [MGS3] didn't really clarify any of the nonsense from MGS2, even when it explained who the philosophers were, it seemed like it was barely connected to MGS2.
Well, ...
It wasn't really a question of who they were, but rather, "How did they come to be?" That question is answered pretty well in MGS3, explaining how the Philosophers came to be, and how the american members split off and became the Patriots. The only questions remaining are: a) How did they become the non-human supernatural entities they told Raiden they were? and b) "They've been dead for 100 years?"
Now, its possible that both Snake and Raiden were given data that was flat out wrong. In that case, those questions don't really matter. I personally think what they told Raiden was rubbish, intended to further confuse and disorient him.
I think they were just speaking more figuratively than literally.
Posts
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Vamp is lame, Snake's character is undermined, Otacon gets really whiny and has an excessively messed up backstory hoisted on him, and Rose just needs to die. That's why for me at least, and if it weren't for those then I would like it.
Well, that and you don't get to play as Snake for the whole thing. I mean, I know there's a bit of a philosophical thing or whatever with that, but it's motherfucking Snake, come on.
Also, I think it's kind of funny that mentioning
And I actually prefer Raiden to Snake in pretty much every way possible. That's not to say I hate Snake, far from it, but I think people unfairly take their hatred of Rose and hoist it onto Raiden.
I mean, come on.
Not to mention he's incredibly more fit and agile.
Also, I really like Raiden too, not as much as Snake.
I love the idea that Raiden is a failure when he's trying to be Snake, and only really becomes his own character when he picks up that sword and does something Snake wouldn't do.
Snake is hilarious in two. He has all the good codec conversations.
And apparently unlike Snake and his genetic brethren, Raiden ain't shootin' blanks. :winky:
You're not alone. I prefer the older. Though I just don't like the way the facial model looks, basically. The rest I'm okay with.
MGS is my favorite game of all time. I didn't really like 2 when I played it the first time, nor did I like it very much when I played it through again recently. The first time I played Snake Eater, I never even finished it. So hopefully this time I'll like it a bit more than I did the first time.
PSN: TheSuperVillain
Snake Eater makes Sons of Liberty better.
Subsistence makes Snake Eater better.
"You didn't ask."
I mean come on, is he eight?
Also, I'm not saying I dislike Raiden, and in fact do think he garners an unfair amount of hate, but if it's ever between him and Solid Mother-fuckin' Snake the choice is clear.
That sounds very Snake-like, even MGS1 Snake. He was kept on a need-to-know basis in MGS; it's reasonable to assume he would do the same to someone else.
PS3 exclusive for now.
I fully expect MGS 4:Subcontracted eventually, and Maybe MGS 4:CARD Revolution for the Wii.
Ew, gross. Twin Snakes before Snake Eater? There's something seriously wrong with you.
My order would go something like this:
MGS1 > MGS3 > MGS2 > MG: GB > MGS: PO > MGA2 > MGS1: VR > MGS: TTS > MGA > MG2 > MG
I didn't bother counting Substance or Subsistence as seperate versions because it's pretty damn obvious which is the better choice. VR Missions though, was an add-on disc, so I included it seperately.
Oh and the proper name for the GBC MG is Metal Gear: Ghost Babel.
Fig-D: First off, MGS2 was released nearly an entire year after the PS2 launch, which is NOT launch window. You can also add another 6 months onto the 11 if you count the Japanese PS2 launch.
Secondly, did you even bother to read the OP? Christ, it's pretty damn obvious he hasn't played MGS2 yet.
MGS1 for PS1, plus Substance and Subsistence for $30.
If you wanna play MGS2, you should buy a cheap PS2 and get MGS3:S, which is the best MGS game in the entire universe (4th dimensionally speaking).
No, but it at times barely ran on the oxbox, so I'm not surprised. May as well just grab a PS2 and the $30 compilation of the PS1/PS2 games in March.
No, which pisses me off. I now have a completely useless disc and my MG collection is incomplete. But, honestly, I've already beat it twice and plan on picking up The Essential Collection anyways, so whatever.
But, definitely pick up the Essential Collection, OP, as it should contain five games (As long as it comes with the second Subsistence disc). After that, Portable Ops. The two Acid games and Ghost Babel aren't canon, so you can skip them if you want (Hated both Acid games, personally, although Ghost Babel was one of the best Game Boy games I've ever played). Twin Snakes is optional. It gets mixed reaction due to its slightly easier difficulty and over-the-top cutscenes, but I find it more enjoyable then the original.
This'll leave you ready to play MGS4 whenever it comes out.
Lemmie throw him a PM so he can post in here. You will then know the true meaning of fanboy.
XBL - Follow Freeman
I'm waiting til MGS4 comes out to take a new picture of all my Metal Gear stuff, between all the games, strategy guides, action figures, etc.
I've already preordered the Essential Collection. Even though I have all of those games (both versions of each) I wanted to get them again since my two copies of MGS for PSX are pretty haggard now.
Here's my old collection picture
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/shimsham/Metal%20Gear/MetalGear001.jpg
but that picture doesn't show the games I've added since then, plus the action figures.
Is there any news regarding new MGS 4 figures? I'd kill to get the F.R.O.G.S., Raiden, Beauty...well everything actually.
The case with 5 stars is The Metal Gear Saga Vol. 1. It was a EB/Stop preorder bonus with Metal Gear Solid 3 Subsistence (North American) It's basically a 30 minute documentary DVD of the Metal Gear games.
The red Subsistence is the outer-box that Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence Special Edition came in. The Special edition was just the same as the normal, except that it came in that red outer-box and it came with the cinematic disc of MGS3 which is the red/orange case right next to the red Subsistence box.
The cinematic disc was basically all of the cutscenes from MGS3 cut together in movie form. It's not as great as it sounds though, but I don't mind having it.
XBL - Follow Freeman
Also, I'm going to save the origonal poster a LOT of grief
When you are told the code is on the back of the package, look at the back of the case the game came in, Meryl's codec frequency is in the screenshot on the back cover. Also, Psyco Mantis commenting that I liked Zelda games was awesome, although I didn't enjoy Twin Snakes thanks to the shitty Gamecube controls for it. Gamecube controllers are fine, I love them, but they do not work for MGS
Nope, LONG before that.
People started defending him because they realized that they really just hated his girlfriend, which is fair. Raiden wasn't a bad character, he was just young and not-Snake. Once most people got over not being Snake (which has taken some a LONG time) they accepted Raiden. He's actually a pretty well developed character with a great back story that parallels Snake's.
Besides, the whole point of him was to develop Snake's character from a sort of 2nd party.
But yeah, some people did come around after they saw Super-Badass-Cyber-Raiden.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Does it ever use the name "JFK" in-game?
What exactly is this "Document" and how can I read it?
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Document was a limited edition, $20 disc that came out between MGS2 and Substance. It had an assload of conceptual work for MGS2, including discarded portions of scripts, concept art, a timeline of production, etc.
I enjoyed the game much, much more when I just went along with the joke instead of tryng to make sense of it. My favorite two moments are still (near the end spoilers)
One thing I did really like about Raiden was the fact that he was saying what was on our mind all the time. I could relate to his sheer confusion and compulsion to ask what the fuck is going on.
Damn, I need to play this game again now.
I disliked MGS3 because it was so toned down and simplified, storywise. Some of the whackyness was still there, but they didn't shove it in your face with constant codec conversations; you actually had to dig for it, and even then there was alot less.
Also, it didn't really clarify any of the nonsense from MGS2, even when it explained who the philosophers were, it seemed like it was barely connected to MGS2.
Gonna spoiler my "Collection List" for the people that don't really care.
Anyway, I've always been a Raiden fan, I thought it was very clever of Kojima to pull such a swerve like that. The story for MGS2 is very hard to follow and very metaphorical (in a sense) and I always liked that, especially after the gritty realism of MGS1.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Well, ...
Now, its possible that both Snake and Raiden were given data that was flat out wrong. In that case, those questions don't really matter. I personally think what they told Raiden was rubbish, intended to further confuse and disorient him.
I think they were just speaking more figuratively than literally.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
You guys seen the Mobile Phone port of Ac!d? Looks really bad, which is a shame, considering MGSMobile looks like it could be really good.
As far as The Patriots go, I'm more interested in the big reveal from MPO.
WARNING, PRETTY BIG SPOILERS AHEAD.
This also suggest that The Patriots are AI now, as Big Boss is dead.