The problem I see with digital distrabution... . most ISP's are already starting to stress of bandwidth. Coming up with new tactics to the world of online videos. Some blocking specific content, others putting together online packages where you only get so much usage, anything over you get charged for (like cell phones)
If this becomes the norm (in which case if it does, I'm going back to leaching internet off my neighbors, cause fuck that) then I can see how BR could eventually take off. People wouldn't want to waste their online "usage" on movies, when its already burned to a disc for them.
Huh?
Did you just get on the internet yesterday?
Those things you're describing are the way that things were for many years. We are moving AWAY from them, not towards them.
No, Evander, you're the one who has it wrong. At least in Canada, all major ISPs (Bell, Rogers, Telus) are continuously tightening bandwidth restrictions and throttling. In the last couple years Bell Sympatico, which I use, has halved speeds but kept the same prices, introduced bandwidth caps, started throttling, traffic shaping, you name it. The reason I stay with them is that the others are even worse.
That's pretty strange.
I haven't heard anything like that in the going on in the European or Asian nations that are FAR more wired than NA, and I don't know of it going on in the US either.
Still, it is a recidivism, not some kind of brand new trend.
Here is the US I believe AT&T? proposed creating a tiered system where they charge more for the highest bandwidth users. I'm not sure what the latest word on that was. ISP's would love to implement such policies since the bulk of their bandwidth/expenses are used up by a proportionally small number of users. Competition is probably the only thing keeping them at bay. As soon as one or two implement the system, others will probably follow suit.
That doesn't have to do with their costs as much as it has to do with trying to milk more money out of the internet.
You have to remember that the PS3 is selling in basically 3 regions, Asia, North America and Europe. The 360 is selling in North America and Europe, and an odd system every now and again in Asia. I would guess that PS3 will be third place everywhere except Japan, where it will be a distant second.
I'm just saying this to point out that it can be misleading to compare international sales and use them to show a general trend.
Your "guess" isn't very good.
The PS3 and 360 monthly sales can vary, but in general, in the US, the 360 is consistantly just ahead (although the PS3 has closed the gap to the point where it jumped ahead last month, though that's unlikely to happen all the time). In Europe, the PS3 has clearly outsold the 360 every month since the end of summer 2007, and in Japan, well, the 360 may as well just not have bothered.
Of course, overall, the 360 is still about 6-7 million ahead thanks to its year headstart, and that will take some overcoming. Nothing will catch the Wii though, there seems to an endless stream of people buying it, though its attach rate of just under 3 (counting Wii Sports and Wii Play) is a little worrying.
??? Where's this coming from? Numbers coming out of Europe are always sketchy and all over the place. The Ps3 outsells the 260 in some countries, and not in others. It'd be difficult to call it either way.
You have to remember that the PS3 is selling in basically 3 regions, Asia, North America and Europe. The 360 is selling in North America and Europe, and an odd system every now and again in Asia. I would guess that PS3 will be third place everywhere except Japan, where it will be a distant second.
I'm just saying this to point out that it can be misleading to compare international sales and use them to show a general trend.
Your "guess" isn't very good.
The PS3 and 360 monthly sales can vary, but in general, in the US, the 360 is consistantly just ahead (although the PS3 has closed the gap to the point where it jumped ahead last month, though that's unlikely to happen all the time). In Europe, the PS3 has clearly outsold the 360 every month since the end of summer 2007, and in Japan, well, the 360 may as well just not have bothered.
Of course, overall, the 360 is still about 6-7 million ahead thanks to its year headstart, and that will take some overcoming. Nothing will catch the Wii though, there seems to an endless stream of people buying it, though its attach rate of just under 3 (counting Wii Sports and Wii Play) is a little worrying.
??? Where's this coming from? Numbers coming out of Europe are always sketchy and all over the place. The Ps3 outsells the 260 in some countries, and not in others. It'd be difficult to call it either way.
The figures are from vgchartz, which get their figures direct from retailers. I'm sure it differs from country to country, but that hardly matters.
In the UK the 360 outsells the PS3. Of the other countries included in 'Europe' numbers, only a few bear strong console markets, in which the PS3 tends to win out.
Whichever way the overall figures swing, I doubt it's by a considerable margin.
In the UK the 360 outsells the PS3. Of the other countries included in 'Europe' numbers, only a few bear strong console markets, in which the PS3 tends to win out.
Whichever way the overall figures swing, I doubt it's by a considerable margin.
which is true but I don't see the 360 keeping the lead for against the PS3 for much longer, I also think by the end of 2008 that the PS3 will be beating the 360 in worldwide sales.
You have to remember that the PS3 is selling in basically 3 regions, Asia, North America and Europe. The 360 is selling in North America and Europe, and an odd system every now and again in Asia. I would guess that PS3 will be third place everywhere except Japan, where it will be a distant second.
I'm just saying this to point out that it can be misleading to compare international sales and use them to show a general trend.
Your "guess" isn't very good.
The PS3 and 360 monthly sales can vary, but in general, in the US, the 360 is consistantly just ahead (although the PS3 has closed the gap to the point where it jumped ahead last month, though that's unlikely to happen all the time). In Europe, the PS3 has clearly outsold the 360 every month since the end of summer 2007, and in Japan, well, the 360 may as well just not have bothered.
Of course, overall, the 360 is still about 6-7 million ahead thanks to its year headstart, and that will take some overcoming. Nothing will catch the Wii though, there seems to an endless stream of people buying it, though its attach rate of just under 3 (counting Wii Sports and Wii Play) is a little worrying.
??? Where's this coming from? Numbers coming out of Europe are always sketchy and all over the place. The Ps3 outsells the 260 in some countries, and not in others. It'd be difficult to call it either way.
The figures are from vgchartz, which get their figures direct from retailers. I'm sure it differs from country to country, but that hardly matters.
vgchartz gets their figures directly from their own asses.
In the UK the 360 outsells the PS3. Of the other countries included in 'Europe' numbers, only a few bear strong console markets, in which the PS3 tends to win out.
Whichever way the overall figures swing, I doubt it's by a considerable margin.
which is true but I don't see the 360 keeping the lead for against the PS3 for much longer, I also think by the end of 2008 that the PS3 will be beating the 360 in worldwide sales.
The PS3 isn't going to be ahead of the 360 by the end of the year, nothing could make up 7 million sales in 10 months. I do expect it to be outselling the 360 more clearly and consistantly in more areas by then though, and probably ahead by the end of 2009, unless the current trends reverse.
You have to remember that the PS3 is selling in basically 3 regions, Asia, North America and Europe. The 360 is selling in North America and Europe, and an odd system every now and again in Asia. I would guess that PS3 will be third place everywhere except Japan, where it will be a distant second.
I'm just saying this to point out that it can be misleading to compare international sales and use them to show a general trend.
Your "guess" isn't very good.
The PS3 and 360 monthly sales can vary, but in general, in the US, the 360 is consistantly just ahead (although the PS3 has closed the gap to the point where it jumped ahead last month, though that's unlikely to happen all the time). In Europe, the PS3 has clearly outsold the 360 every month since the end of summer 2007, and in Japan, well, the 360 may as well just not have bothered.
Of course, overall, the 360 is still about 6-7 million ahead thanks to its year headstart, and that will take some overcoming. Nothing will catch the Wii though, there seems to an endless stream of people buying it, though its attach rate of just under 3 (counting Wii Sports and Wii Play) is a little worrying.
??? Where's this coming from? Numbers coming out of Europe are always sketchy and all over the place. The Ps3 outsells the 260 in some countries, and not in others. It'd be difficult to call it either way.
The figures are from vgchartz, which get their figures direct from retailers. I'm sure it differs from country to country, but that hardly matters.
vgchartz gets their figures directly from their own asses.
You're insinuating that they simply make up their figures? Figures which have been backed up by official sales figures and independant analysis time and time again? Where as you clearly have the insider info. Isn't it funny how a source is only relilable when you agree with it.
I doubt they're 100% accurate on a week by week basis, but they're about as accurate as you can get. They certainly have no reason to state that any one console is doing better than another.
You have to remember that the PS3 is selling in basically 3 regions, Asia, North America and Europe. The 360 is selling in North America and Europe, and an odd system every now and again in Asia. I would guess that PS3 will be third place everywhere except Japan, where it will be a distant second.
I'm just saying this to point out that it can be misleading to compare international sales and use them to show a general trend.
Your "guess" isn't very good.
The PS3 and 360 monthly sales can vary, but in general, in the US, the 360 is consistantly just ahead (although the PS3 has closed the gap to the point where it jumped ahead last month, though that's unlikely to happen all the time). In Europe, the PS3 has clearly outsold the 360 every month since the end of summer 2007, and in Japan, well, the 360 may as well just not have bothered.
Of course, overall, the 360 is still about 6-7 million ahead thanks to its year headstart, and that will take some overcoming. Nothing will catch the Wii though, there seems to an endless stream of people buying it, though its attach rate of just under 3 (counting Wii Sports and Wii Play) is a little worrying.
??? Where's this coming from? Numbers coming out of Europe are always sketchy and all over the place. The Ps3 outsells the 260 in some countries, and not in others. It'd be difficult to call it either way.
The figures are from vgchartz, which get their figures direct from retailers. I'm sure it differs from country to country, but that hardly matters.
vgchartz gets their figures directly from their own asses.
You're insinuating that they simply make up their figures? Figures which have been backed up by official sales figures and independant analysis time and time again? Where as you clearly have the insider info. Isn't it funny how a source is only relilable when you agree with it.
I doubt they're 100% accurate on a week by week basis, but they're about as accurate as you can get. They certainly have no reason to state that any one console is doing better than another.
Oh shit, your funny. Why don't you move on over to the sales thread and we can educate you.
TONS of vgchartz figures are projections and guesses. They get updated to the actual figures when they come out. But not regularly. You never know which figures are real, and which are pulled directly from some person's colon.
Citing vgchartz as a source is grounds for ridicule.
You mean the sales thread on this site? The G&T sales thread? Otherwise known by everyone as the worst thread on the entire forums? No ta.
And didn't you just say they update their figures? So wouldn't that make their figures for last year correct? And weren't those the figures I was mainly talking about?
The problem I see with digital distrabution... . most ISP's are already starting to stress of bandwidth. Coming up with new tactics to the world of online videos. Some blocking specific content, others putting together online packages where you only get so much usage, anything over you get charged for (like cell phones)
If this becomes the norm (in which case if it does, I'm going back to leaching internet off my neighbors, cause fuck that) then I can see how BR could eventually take off. People wouldn't want to waste their online "usage" on movies, when its already burned to a disc for them.
Huh?
Did you just get on the internet yesterday?
Those things you're describing are the way that things were for many years. We are moving AWAY from them, not towards them.
No, Evander, you're the one who has it wrong. At least in Canada, all major ISPs (Bell, Rogers, Telus) are continuously tightening bandwidth restrictions and throttling. In the last couple years Bell Sympatico, which I use, has halved speeds but kept the same prices, introduced bandwidth caps, started throttling, traffic shaping, you name it. The reason I stay with them is that the others are even worse.
That's pretty strange.
I haven't heard anything like that in the going on in the European or Asian nations that are FAR more wired than NA, and I don't know of it going on in the US either.
Still, it is a recidivism, not some kind of brand new trend.
Time Warner is testing a pay per usage system in Texas right now with intent to make it national. Within the system you pay a base fee for a capped bandwidth usage and once you pass that cap you start paying additional fees.
Most of the ISP's in america right now are actually testing systems like this at the moment.
All the ISPs do that in the UK, although it's rarely enforced. Basically, they sell you an "Unlimited* Download" service, but they actually have a limit, and if you go over it, you can be charged £1 or so per GB. Very few enforce it though. There are also plenty of 40GB a month limit packages with extra costs for going over around, too.
You mean the sales thread on this site? The G&T sales thread? Otherwise known by everyone as the worst thread on the entire forums? No ta.
And didn't you just say they update their figures? So wouldn't that make their figures for last year correct? And weren't those the figures I was mainly talking about?
Sales figures from Europe are never released to the public thus VGChartz has no way of updating their numbers. To give you an idea of how inaccurate they are when they make their own predictions, here are their January numbers with actual NPD numbers in parenthesis. (Quoting Unco-ordinated)
I think you've got a good point there slash. When this large a portion of what I'd consider the "Techy Crowd" doesn't care, there's a problem.
Although this isn't the EXACT target market for high end HD movie stuff, but it's pretty close.
The techy crowd is usually the most out of touch with what people actually want or buy, so saying that its a problem that the techy crowd didnt embrace it.... Well if that was the case im sure we would all be playing Dreamcast 3's, or some other obscure tech that only webcomic forum 'goers care and bitch about.
Here is the US I believe AT&T? proposed creating a tiered system where they charge more for the highest bandwidth users. I'm not sure what the latest word on that was. ISP's would love to implement such policies since the bulk of their bandwidth/expenses are used up by a proportionally small number of users. Competition is probably the only thing keeping them at bay. As soon as one or two implement the system, others will probably follow suit.
That doesn't have to do with their costs as much as it has to do with trying to milk more money out of the internet.
I think you've got a good point there slash. When this large a portion of what I'd consider the "Techy Crowd" doesn't care, there's a problem.
Although this isn't the EXACT target market for high end HD movie stuff, but it's pretty close.
The techy crowd is usually the most out of touch with what people actually want or buy, so saying that its a problem that the techy crowd didnt embrace it.... Well if that was the case im sure we would all be playing Dreamcast 3's, or some other obscure tech that only webcomic forum 'goers care and bitch about.
When it comes to fancy, new and expensive technology, the general public is NOT the first to embrace it. It's the techies. The general public comes afterwards if at all.
You mean the sales thread on this site? The G&T sales thread? Otherwise known by everyone as the worst thread on the entire forums? No ta.
And didn't you just say they update their figures? So wouldn't that make their figures for last year correct? And weren't those the figures I was mainly talking about?
Who's this mythical "everyone" you speak of? Is it just you? Is it cause we use real facts instead of VGchartz?
And whether they update or not is part of the problem. You never know whether your looking at complete bullshit or real numbers. The site is 100% unreliable.
The G&T sales thread is bizarre. It's a thread dedicated to which console is on top, yet it's probably the calmest, most thoughtful thread in the subforum.
Why would you use it as a general term? In concept, an HD format isn't a DVD. It's like saying DVD is a VHS CD. I dunno am I the only one that thinks like this?
"HD" stands for "hi-definition". Which is a general term. What is a a Blu-ray disc, if not a hi-definition digital versatile disc?
You have to remember that the PS3 is selling in basically 3 regions, Asia, North America and Europe. The 360 is selling in North America and Europe, and an odd system every now and again in Asia. I would guess that PS3 will be third place everywhere except Japan, where it will be a distant second.
I'm just saying this to point out that it can be misleading to compare international sales and use them to show a general trend.
Your "guess" isn't very good.
The PS3 and 360 monthly sales can vary, but in general, in the US, the 360 is consistantly just ahead (although the PS3 has closed the gap to the point where it jumped ahead last month, though that's unlikely to happen all the time). In Europe, the PS3 has clearly outsold the 360 every month since the end of summer 2007, and in Japan, well, the 360 may as well just not have bothered.
Of course, overall, the 360 is still about 6-7 million ahead thanks to its year headstart, and that will take some overcoming. Nothing will catch the Wii though, there seems to an endless stream of people buying it, though its attach rate of just under 3 (counting Wii Sports and Wii Play) is a little worrying.
??? Where's this coming from? Numbers coming out of Europe are always sketchy and all over the place. The Ps3 outsells the 260 in some countries, and not in others. It'd be difficult to call it either way.
Despite getting his numbers from vgcharts, he's not completely off the ball. We got 2007 figures from a lot of European countries, most of which show the PS3 passed the 360 in a lot of countries (France, Germany, Spain and Norway) and that the only country the 360 had done pretty well in was the UK.
Even EA predicted that the PS3 outsold the 360 in Europe last year (2.8 million for the PS3, 1.9 million for the 360). Sure, they're estimates but EA still would've gotten a lot of figures from companies like Chart Track GfK (who together track console sales over most of Europe).
An asian sounding guy was talking to some other dude. The asian guy was some karate master and he called himself BluRay, and he was admitting defeat to the other dude, who called himself HD DVD.
Then Bluray Asian Guy was going to commit seppuku, but the last second, he busted out some karate moves on the other dude, and said, something like... I am bluray, I shall not be defeated!
And then a deep sounding narrative voice ended the commercial by saying, and I quote:
OK, the ad is known as the "Your HD-DVD Player Is Obsolete" radio ad. Apparently Toshiba is letting people know that they're giving up on HD DVD by this radio ad.
I cannot find the sound bite online, though, except by 1 source. Except you have to be a member to hear the clip from that source.
Anyone else hear this on the radio? It's such a very, very strange ad.
Your HD-DVD Player Is Obsolete Sign Up Now
Toshiba's HD-DVD has been officially put out of business by Sony's Blu-Ray.. . .(more)
Toshiba's HD-DVD has been officially put out of business by Sony's Blu-Ray. Toshiba is breaking the news to its customers . . . (less)
Categories : |Original Comedy Bits
Its not an ad and it certainly isn't Toshiba's. Perhaps you don't listen to radio enough, but they have a tendency to make really lame "comedy" skits.
An asian sounding guy was talking to some other dude. The asian guy was some karate master and he called himself BluRay, and he was admitting defeat to the other dude, who called himself HD DVD.
Then Bluray Asian Guy was going to commit seppuku, but the last second, he busted out some karate moves on the other dude, and said, something like... I am bluray, I shall not be defeated!
And then a deep sounding narrative voice ended the commercial by saying, and I quote:
"We are Toshiba. We officially suck."
Anyone else hear this or know about this?
It's a satire ad. Heard it on Walton and Johnson this morning.
Your HD-DVD Player Is Obsolete Sign Up Now
Toshiba's HD-DVD has been officially put out of business by Sony's Blu-Ray.. . .(more)
Toshiba's HD-DVD has been officially put out of business by Sony's Blu-Ray. Toshiba is breaking the news to its customers . . . (less)
Categories : |Original Comedy Bits
Its not an ad and it certainly isn't Toshiba's. Perhaps you don't listen to radio enough, but they have a tendency to make really lame "comedy" skits.
well, yeah, I know they do. But the audio clip was completely unrelated to anything they were talking about, and was completely out of place and random. It's about as long as a radio commercial too. And it was in the middle of their regular advertisements.
So..
Sure, I guess it was just a skit.
But it's an awfully weird skit. One that I don't really understand.
It's a very odd audio clip though. I was wondering if anyone else had heard it?
OK, the ad is known as the "Your HD-DVD Player Is Obsolete" radio ad. Apparently Toshiba is letting people know that they're giving up on HD DVD by this radio ad.
I cannot find the sound bite online, though, except by 1 source. Except you have to be a member to hear the clip from that source.
Anyone else hear this on the radio? It's such a very, very strange ad.
You gotta give it to Toshiba, when they quit, they put their whole ass into it.
Posts
That's pretty strange.
I haven't heard anything like that in the going on in the European or Asian nations that are FAR more wired than NA, and I don't know of it going on in the US either.
Still, it is a recidivism, not some kind of brand new trend.
That doesn't have to do with their costs as much as it has to do with trying to milk more money out of the internet.
??? Where's this coming from? Numbers coming out of Europe are always sketchy and all over the place. The Ps3 outsells the 260 in some countries, and not in others. It'd be difficult to call it either way.
The figures are from vgchartz, which get their figures direct from retailers. I'm sure it differs from country to country, but that hardly matters.
Whichever way the overall figures swing, I doubt it's by a considerable margin.
I probably should have specified.
which is true but I don't see the 360 keeping the lead for against the PS3 for much longer, I also think by the end of 2008 that the PS3 will be beating the 360 in worldwide sales.
vgchartz gets their figures directly from their own asses.
The PS3 isn't going to be ahead of the 360 by the end of the year, nothing could make up 7 million sales in 10 months. I do expect it to be outselling the 360 more clearly and consistantly in more areas by then though, and probably ahead by the end of 2009, unless the current trends reverse.
You're insinuating that they simply make up their figures? Figures which have been backed up by official sales figures and independant analysis time and time again? Where as you clearly have the insider info. Isn't it funny how a source is only relilable when you agree with it.
I doubt they're 100% accurate on a week by week basis, but they're about as accurate as you can get. They certainly have no reason to state that any one console is doing better than another.
Oh shit, your funny. Why don't you move on over to the sales thread and we can educate you.
TONS of vgchartz figures are projections and guesses. They get updated to the actual figures when they come out. But not regularly. You never know which figures are real, and which are pulled directly from some person's colon.
Citing vgchartz as a source is grounds for ridicule.
And didn't you just say they update their figures? So wouldn't that make their figures for last year correct? And weren't those the figures I was mainly talking about?
Time Warner is testing a pay per usage system in Texas right now with intent to make it national. Within the system you pay a base fee for a capped bandwidth usage and once you pass that cap you start paying additional fees.
Most of the ISP's in america right now are actually testing systems like this at the moment.
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Sales figures from Europe are never released to the public thus VGChartz has no way of updating their numbers. To give you an idea of how inaccurate they are when they make their own predictions, here are their January numbers with actual NPD numbers in parenthesis. (Quoting Unco-ordinated)
VGChartz
NPD
DS 605,716 (251k)
Wii 395,496 (274k)
360 336,036 (230k)
PSP 282,979 (230k)
PS2 255,219 (264k)
PS3 224,901 (269k)
100% correct again, gj!
Also, why is the Sales Thread the "worst thread" in the forums?
It has more objectivism and less pointless trolling or pseudotrolling than most threads...
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
It's the worst thread in the forums because we've dared to not instantly agree with everything Ashcroft said. :P
When it comes to fancy, new and expensive technology, the general public is NOT the first to embrace it. It's the techies. The general public comes afterwards if at all.
Who's this mythical "everyone" you speak of? Is it just you? Is it cause we use real facts instead of VGchartz?
And whether they update or not is part of the problem. You never know whether your looking at complete bullshit or real numbers. The site is 100% unreliable.
"HD" stands for "hi-definition". Which is a general term. What is a a Blu-ray disc, if not a hi-definition digital versatile disc?
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Despite getting his numbers from vgcharts, he's not completely off the ball. We got 2007 figures from a lot of European countries, most of which show the PS3 passed the 360 in a lot of countries (France, Germany, Spain and Norway) and that the only country the 360 had done pretty well in was the UK.
Even EA predicted that the PS3 outsold the 360 in Europe last year (2.8 million for the PS3, 1.9 million for the 360). Sure, they're estimates but EA still would've gotten a lot of figures from companies like Chart Track GfK (who together track console sales over most of Europe).
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
and what sounded like an ad came on..
The gist of the ad was this:
An asian sounding guy was talking to some other dude. The asian guy was some karate master and he called himself BluRay, and he was admitting defeat to the other dude, who called himself HD DVD.
Then Bluray Asian Guy was going to commit seppuku, but the last second, he busted out some karate moves on the other dude, and said, something like... I am bluray, I shall not be defeated!
And then a deep sounding narrative voice ended the commercial by saying, and I quote:
"We are Toshiba. We officially suck."
Anyone else hear this or know about this?
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
I cannot find the sound bite online, though, except by 1 source. Except you have to be a member to hear the clip from that source.
Anyone else hear this on the radio? It's such a very, very strange ad.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
https://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/1JI9WWSRW1YJI
Its not an ad and it certainly isn't Toshiba's. Perhaps you don't listen to radio enough, but they have a tendency to make really lame "comedy" skits.
It's a satire ad. Heard it on Walton and Johnson this morning.
XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
well, yeah, I know they do. But the audio clip was completely unrelated to anything they were talking about, and was completely out of place and random. It's about as long as a radio commercial too. And it was in the middle of their regular advertisements.
So..
Sure, I guess it was just a skit.
But it's an awfully weird skit. One that I don't really understand.
It's a very odd audio clip though. I was wondering if anyone else had heard it?
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
You gotta give it to Toshiba, when they quit, they put their whole ass into it.
Very classy of them.
EDIT: Nevermind, slash screwed up.:evil:
Ohhh, cool.
I was wondering if anyone else had heard it. Such a weird thing, this satire ad.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games