Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
edited February 2008
As far as the patching goes, it's on consoles, too. The first thing that my XBox told me once I got it online and tried to play a game was "This game has an update, if you don't, we'll burn down your house and kill your family (Actually, just prevent you from being online, but whatever)"
First time I've ever been told I'll lose system connectivity if I refuse to patch.
Not the same sort of patching that's being discussed, at all. Patching in the past few posts has been more about how a lot of PC games are released half-finished and rely upon patching to finish the job.
WoW is...well, WoW. Its success has doomed a host of games in more than one way. When I mentioned Blizzard I was thinking about their non-WoW releases. When it comes to quality, support and going the extra mile they wear the crown in my mind. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to come up with other examples...Valve, perhaps? If Blizzard can do it, and they were doing it before they were huge, then surely other companies can but they aren't. They blatently aren't even trying.
The other thing is, nVidia doesn't really make their money from high-end graphics cards. The mid-low range, chipsets etc are where the money piles in from.
Id love some sauce on this cause last I heard it was the opposite. I could be mistaken though but I was pretty sure their main revenue comes from their highest end stuff periodically.
I can't really speak to the profit margin, but it seems reasonable that most of the profit comes from the lower range. When a new chipset hits the manufacturing line, yields are usually in the low 30 percentile. As in, 2 out of 3 chips produced don't work. That's generally why you're paying $800 for the top end cards - they're making up the lost money from all the failed chips.
However, as lines are refined, yields go up. Prices drop and a lot more cards are sold. It gets cheaper and cheaper to produce the same card: I have no evidence to support this, but I bet manufacturing costs drop faster than retail prices. They can only sell the top end cards for prices the market will bear and I don't think the market will bear $1K video cards. They want to sell those cards, though, because they recoup costs on getting their next line of cards running so they have new mid-level cards to release without paying through the nose for it.
Should give you a look at roughly how the market breaks down. So it's a generally perceived tenant that there's more money in the low-end than the highend. If you add on top of that the mobile graphics market that nvidia currently has something like a 40% share, and the motherboard chipset business then that high-end is a really small part of nVidias overall money raking operation.
Ugh. I, unfortunately, agree with Chris Taylor. I wish the PC gaming market wasn't so... Stale, right now (to me, of course). I own such a good computer (for the first time in YEARS) and there's nothing worthwhile to play on it.
I mean, really, what good games are there right now that came out in the last year for the PC? (I don't like RTS games because I suck hard at them)
Orange Box -> Sweet, but TF2 got pretty old pretty quickly. With 5 maps (it's at 6 now right?) it just didn't hold my attention as long as I wanted it. Portal was amazing, as was HL2:E2.
STALKER -> Lulz. I don't even know why this game is considered an RPG. Is it just because of the equipable items? Really? Regardless, this game wasn't as good as everyone claimed it was.
UT3 -> Great for about a week, then it got bland.
Crysis -> Fun for a short time (I upgraded my DVD Burner to a new Lite-On, and now the game clicks when it's in the drive. Still not patched since release.)
The Witcher -> I got about 2 hours into it, when I realized the entire game was a huge fetch quest. The fighting system wasn't very good either.
World in Conflict -> I liked this game for a little bit (started a thread on it) but I thought the MP was pretty bad.
Bioshock -> It was good, but not nearly as good as System Shock 2.
But these are all my opinions, so please don't act like they are fact. I just don't think there's been a game that's "refreshed" the PC gaming industry.
The other thing is, nVidia doesn't really make their money from high-end graphics cards. The mid-low range, chipsets etc are where the money piles in from.
Id love some sauce on this cause last I heard it was the opposite. I could be mistaken though but I was pretty sure their main revenue comes from their highest end stuff periodically.
I can't really speak to the profit margin, but it seems reasonable that most of the profit comes from the lower range. When a new chipset hits the manufacturing line, yields are usually in the low 30 percentile. As in, 2 out of 3 chips produced don't work. That's generally why you're paying $800 for the top end cards - they're making up the lost money from all the failed chips.
However, as lines are refined, yields go up. Prices drop and a lot more cards are sold. It gets cheaper and cheaper to produce the same card: I have no evidence to support this, but I bet manufacturing costs drop faster than retail prices. They can only sell the top end cards for prices the market will bear and I don't think the market will bear $1K video cards. They want to sell those cards, though, because they recoup costs on getting their next line of cards running so they have new mid-level cards to release without paying through the nose for it.
Should give you a look at roughly how the market breaks down. So it's a generally perceived tenant that there's more money in the low-end than the highend. If you add on top of that the mobile graphics market that nvidia currently has something like a 40% share, and the motherboard chipset business then that high-end is a really small part of nVidias overall money raking operation.
Can you explain how 'Performance' is classed as low end? Surely budget is the low end of that data? Or mainstream?
800 dollar gpus are not high end. they are super high end.
when you said 'most of nvidias money comes from low end cards' i assumed what was meant was the low end, not the 'lower high end'.
or whatever. its semantics.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Can you explain how 'Performance' is classed as low end? Surely budget is the low end of that data? Or mainstream?
800 dollar gpus are not high end. they are super high end.
when you said 'most of nvidias money comes from low end cards' i assumed what was meant was the low end, not the 'lower high end'.
or whatever. its semantics.
He said mid to low. I say mid. That graph bears it out. My card was $320 and was second in line in NVidia's lineup at the time. $150 - $250 is absolutely mid-range - ignore the 'performance' headings. Those are your 8600s and whatnot. When I got my card there was NO 8800 under $300 and those are the 'Enthusiast' cards. Those are the high range.
That graph is pretty much what we were saying.
PS The low end isn't going to see much since those are specifically 'add-in' cards, not onboard, and the people who are buying graphics cards individually are not typically the ones buying the cheapest one available.
WoW is mostly immune to piracy, as are other MMOs. The Sims sells to people who have no idea how to pirate.
Haha. I remember when the latest Sims 2 expansion came out. There was a mob of mothers with their daughters at the local Best Buy. Unfortunately for Best Buy they did not get their shipment in that day. I thought the mob was going to burn the place to the ground! So violent they were! I'm sure many an employee that day needed therapy after words.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Crysis -> Fun for a short time (I upgraded my DVD Burner to a new Lite-On, and now the game clicks when it's in the drive. Still not patched since release.)
I won't argue with you over your opinions on the other games, but Crysis was patched.
The patch is just surprisingly absent from almost everywhere.
WoW is mostly immune to piracy, as are other MMOs. The Sims sells to people who have no idea how to pirate.
Haha. I remember when the latest Sims 2 expansion came out. There was a mob of mothers with their daughters at the local Best Buy. Unfortunately for Best Buy they did not get their shipment in that day. I thought the mob was going to burn the place to the ground! So violent they were! I'm sure many an employee that day needed therapy after words.
I've bought every sims game and every sims expansion for my sister since she started playing it. probably spent nearly a thousand pounds on that game in one way or another.
worth it. sims and all the content for it, every time i bring one round to her house (she doesnt follow release dates) she brightens up and immediately installs it. even if its like a content pack with like 5 items. bought her sims 2 university for when she left for uni. great gift.
id imagine this is what buying someone a Wii feels like. its great to introduce non gamers to even the most superficial aspects of the gaming scene. sims is one of them.
Ugh. I, unfortunately, agree with Chris Taylor. I wish the PC gaming market wasn't so... Stale, right now (to me, of course). I own such a good computer (for the first time in YEARS) and there's nothing worthwhile to play on it.
I mean, really, what good games are there right now that came out in the last year for the PC? (I don't like RTS games because I suck hard at them)
Orange Box -> Sweet, but TF2 got pretty old pretty quickly. With 5 maps (it's at 6 now right?) it just didn't hold my attention as long as I wanted it. Portal was amazing, as was HL2:E2.
STALKER -> Lulz. I don't even know why this game is considered an RPG. Is it just because of the equipable items? Really? Regardless, this game wasn't as good as everyone claimed it was.
UT3 -> Great for about a week, then it got bland.
Crysis -> Fun for a short time (I upgraded my DVD Burner to a new Lite-On, and now the game clicks when it's in the drive. Still not patched since release.)
The Witcher -> I got about 2 hours into it, when I realized the entire game was a huge fetch quest. The fighting system wasn't very good either.
World in Conflict -> I liked this game for a little bit (started a thread on it) but I thought the MP was pretty bad.
Bioshock -> It was good, but not nearly as good as System Shock 2.
But these are all my opinions, so please don't act like they are fact. I just don't think there's been a game that's "refreshed" the PC gaming industry.
Wow....okay..... can I ask what games you are playing than? especially if you think that pc gaming is stale
Which btw I disagree but it's just different opinions
Just my little joke. It's not as if it would have much of a market there anyway, with the average game lasting anywhere between 2 hours and 2 weeks . Irrespective of how you feel about console games, long-term games requiring a fair amount of dedication like that tend not to crop up in the console sphere as much, it's just the nature of the machine I guess.
I still feel it's pretty disingenuos to say your investment is "flushed down the toilet" simply because you're making a PC exclusive game.
No, no, I hear you. But Sins is so nichey that the development costs are obviously lower. And it's cool to see that game get some love. But something with a bigger marketing and development budget would be a risky proposition on PC right now, and I think we're seeing the upshot in people heading to console-ville.
I actually think it's probably a temporary hurdle for PC gaming. I don't know the specifics of how much something like Steam prevents piracy, but I'm sure it slows it down, and I'm sure there's going to be more like it going forward.
I was really just making a point about how hardcore gamers tend to complain the loudest about how the industry spits out kiddy/casual stuff, but they're also the most likely to pirate. And the shift to closed systems (whether that's a console or something like Steam that has more authentication built in) is just inevitable when you're making content for people who are extremely good at pirating things.
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Ugh. I, unfortunately, agree with Chris Taylor. I wish the PC gaming market wasn't so... Stale, right now (to me, of course). I own such a good computer (for the first time in YEARS) and there's nothing worthwhile to play on it.
I mean, really, what good games are there right now that came out in the last year for the PC? (I don't like RTS games because I suck hard at them)
Orange Box -> Sweet, but TF2 got pretty old pretty quickly. With 5 maps (it's at 6 now right?) it just didn't hold my attention as long as I wanted it. Portal was amazing, as was HL2:E2.
STALKER -> Lulz. I don't even know why this game is considered an RPG. Is it just because of the equipable items? Really? Regardless, this game wasn't as good as everyone claimed it was.
UT3 -> Great for about a week, then it got bland.
Crysis -> Fun for a short time (I upgraded my DVD Burner to a new Lite-On, and now the game clicks when it's in the drive. Still not patched since release.)
The Witcher -> I got about 2 hours into it, when I realized the entire game was a huge fetch quest. The fighting system wasn't very good either.
World in Conflict -> I liked this game for a little bit (started a thread on it) but I thought the MP was pretty bad.
Bioshock -> It was good, but not nearly as good as System Shock 2.
But these are all my opinions, so please don't act like they are fact. I just don't think there's been a game that's "refreshed" the PC gaming industry.
Wow....okay..... can I ask what games you are playing than? especially if you think that pc gaming is stale
Which btw I disagree but it's just different opinions
I have to take issue with his TF2 beef as well. There are a hell of a lot more than 6 maps, it's just that they're player made. And for the most part they're good. I've played probably upwards of 20 different maps, varying in degree of quality.
And poor Stalker, the gaming world's red headed step child. It is a good game if you can get past all the bugs.
Regardless, these are all opinions, but I find it hard to believe you could call the PC market stale, last year alone was pretty good, and this year is shaping up to be awesome as well. I also don't see how the next gen console market could be considered anything but stale if you don't include the Wii.
Ugh. I, unfortunately, agree with Chris Taylor. I wish the PC gaming market wasn't so... Stale, right now (to me, of course). I own such a good computer (for the first time in YEARS) and there's nothing worthwhile to play on it.
I mean, really, what good games are there right now that came out in the last year for the PC? (I don't like RTS games because I suck hard at them)
Orange Box -> Sweet, but TF2 got pretty old pretty quickly. With 5 maps (it's at 6 now right?) it just didn't hold my attention as long as I wanted it. Portal was amazing, as was HL2:E2.
STALKER -> Lulz. I don't even know why this game is considered an RPG. Is it just because of the equipable items? Really? Regardless, this game wasn't as good as everyone claimed it was.
UT3 -> Great for about a week, then it got bland.
Crysis -> Fun for a short time (I upgraded my DVD Burner to a new Lite-On, and now the game clicks when it's in the drive. Still not patched since release.)
The Witcher -> I got about 2 hours into it, when I realized the entire game was a huge fetch quest. The fighting system wasn't very good either.
World in Conflict -> I liked this game for a little bit (started a thread on it) but I thought the MP was pretty bad.
Bioshock -> It was good, but not nearly as good as System Shock 2.
But these are all my opinions, so please don't act like they are fact. I just don't think there's been a game that's "refreshed" the PC gaming industry.
Wow....okay..... can I ask what games you are playing than? especially if you think that pc gaming is stale
Which btw I disagree but it's just different opinions
I have to take issue with his TF2 beef as well. There are a hell of a lot more than 6 maps, it's just that they're player made. And for the most part they're good. I've played probably upwards of 20 different maps, varying in degree of quality.
And poor Stalker, the gaming world's red headed step child. It is a good game if you can get past all the bugs.
Regardless, these are all opinions, but I find it hard to believe you could call the PC market stale, last year alone was pretty good, and this year is shaping up to be awesome as well. I also don't see how the next gen console market could be considered anything but stale if you don't include the Wii.
TF2 -> I only played on the PA server, so whatever they had on there I played. And they didn't add any of the new ones to their rotation.
What's coming out this year? Another WoW expansion?
Look those are the biggest hits for the PC within the last year (that I played) and it felt like I played all those games before. They didn't bring anything new to the table.
And you say 'another WoW expansion' as though that's a bad thing. the last one was the best selling Pc game of 2007, by a fucking mile.
I wouldn't doubt it. WoWheads are completely engrossed in that game.
What/who is Alan Wake? (Unfortunately I now have to leave for class until 8pm. )
Alan Wake is a video game being developed by Remedy Entertainment, the Finnish company behind the Max Payne games. Alan Wake is billed as a "psychological action thriller". Microsoft Game Studios is the publisher of the game. The game is being developed exclusively for Windows Vista and Xbox 360, with a PlayStation 3 version also planned but then cancelled when Microsoft acquired publisher rights of the title.
What's coming out this year? Another WoW expansion?
Look those are the biggest hits for the PC within the last year (that I played) and it felt like I played all those games before. They didn't bring anything new to the table.
Dawn of War expansion, Starcraft 2, WoW expansion, Mass Effect PC, Stalker, Command and Conquer 3 expansion, Assassin Creed, Left for Dead, Alan Wake, I know there's tons more as well but I also totally disagree with you that none of the pc games that you played brought something to the table because games like Bioshock, Team Fortress 2, portal all brought things to the market
Heck even Hellgate London even though it had a dissapointing launch was still a fun game that is getting better, It honestly makes me shake my head at the people that think pc gaming is getting stale and dieing but it's really just a dissapointing to see.
And of course we already have had Sins of the Solar Empire, which is flat out awesome. I can't think of anything on the consoles (as in exclusively on) that has been really innovative and must have, excepting Rock Band probably, which is just the natural continuation of Guitar Hero. That's not to say I'm ripping on consoles, but just to make the point that your argument can be applied to them just as generically.
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ViscountalphaThe pen is mightier than the swordhttp://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered Userregular
What's coming out this year? Another WoW expansion?
Look those are the biggest hits for the PC within the last year (that I played) and it felt like I played all those games before. They didn't bring anything new to the table.
Dawn of War expansion, Starcraft 2, WoW expansion, Mass Effect PC, Stalker, Command and Conquer 3 expansion, Assassin Creed, Left for Dead, Alan Wake, I know there's tons more as well but I also totally disagree with you that none of the pc games that you played brought something to the table because games like Bioshock, Team Fortress 2, portal all brought things to the market
Heck even Hellgate London even though it had a dissapointing launch was still a fun game that is getting better, It honestly makes me shake my head at the people that think pc gaming is getting stale and dieing but it's really just a dissapointing to see.
Well it is certainly in decline. Given what a (average)gaming PC costs(800-1000$) and what a 360/ps3/wii costs, I would say the console market is much more affordable. I believe pc gaming is dying because it is out of reach of too many people.
Except that has been the case for 10+ years. Same arguments then as now. Only now some pc developers are jumping ship because it's clearly more profitable working on the consoles. But that's only natural, consoles are mainstream. Few have a PC in their living room.
Well it is certainly in decline. Given what a (average)gaming PC costs(800-1000$) and what a 360/ps3/wii costs, I would say the console market is much more affordable. I believe pc gaming is dying because it is out of reach of too many people.
You would not believe just how many times we've been over those points.
Someone mentioned Gamestop, the reason a lot of Gamestops don't carry PC games anymore isn't because of piracy or poor sales or anything of that nature, the reason Gamestop doesn't carry PC games anymore is that you can't sell PC games used due to the CD key system.
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ViscountalphaThe pen is mightier than the swordhttp://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered Userregular
Well it is certainly in decline. Given what a (average)gaming PC costs(800-1000$) and what a 360/ps3/wii costs, I would say the console market is much more affordable. I believe pc gaming is dying because it is out of reach of too many people.
You would not believe just how many times we've been over those points.
Link me then if you want to complain about it. I've gone back 6 pages and its constant chatter about piracy being the root cause. I have yet to hear a single word why this thinking is wrong/incorrect.
Not to mention that consoles are becoming increasingly more expensive. PS3 being the best example.
More expensive for a console? yes. But compared to a PC? it is dirt cheap. You also get the blu-ray movie functionality too. It would be impossible to build a PC with a blu-ray drive for 600$. All I am saying with this discussion is that PC gaming is losing its steam because it has become far too expensive to make a gaming machine when there are consoles that are comparable in primary features.
Well it is certainly in decline. Given what a (average)gaming PC costs(800-1000$) and what a 360/ps3/wii costs, I would say the console market is much more affordable. I believe pc gaming is dying because it is out of reach of too many people.
You would not believe just how many times we've been over those points.
Link me then if you want to complain about it. I've gone back 6 pages and its constant chatter about piracy being the root cause. I have yet to hear a single word why this thinking is wrong/incorrect.
Not to mention that consoles are becoming increasingly more expensive. PS3 being the best example.
More expensive for a console? yes. But compared to a PC? it is dirt cheap. You also get the blu-ray movie functionality too. It would be impossible to build a PC with a blu-ray drive for 600$. All I am saying with this discussion is that PC gaming is losing its steam because it has become far too expensive to make a gaming machine when there are consoles that are comparable in primary features.
Well it's not like you're getting out the door for $600 dollars exact. With accessories and some games it quickly approaches the cost of a mid-grade computer. Plus the games are more expensive than their PC counterparts, modding and user made additions are practically gone, and you have to deal with downloadable content. Both PC's and consoles have pluses and negatives, but endlessly trying to say which is better is an exercise in futility. Yes the PC market is shrinking a bit, but it's for multiple reasons vs. one huge one.
Edit: And yes you do get Blu-ray functionality, but if HD-DVD had won the fight, the PS3 would be pretty worthless, and Sony only put it in the PS3 in the first place, to leverage it as a technology. They just happened to get extremely lucky this time.
This is neither here nor there, but if I wanted to get my current PC (that I use all the time and am posting from right now) up to snuff to run PC games for the next couple of years, I'd have to buy a new mobo, cpu, ram, and videocard. Because I don't have a PCIE slot and my CPU is probably too outdated, and definitely my vid card is outdated. Games necessitate the videocard and CPU which necessitates a new mobo, which in turn necessitates new RAM. (i might have to upgrade the PSU too, but maybe not)
I figure that would cost me around $400, depending heavily on the videocard I bought... the same as a PS3 and $50 more than a 360 Premium.
But even if that breaks about even, I personally find it to be too much hassle to deal with, and I just don't care. Especially if things are going to have to start requiring Vista, which is another expense.
Plus, I've gotten to really enjoy playing games on a couch and on a large TV, and I just don't think I could ever go back to hunching over a keyboard and mouse in a deskchair. Comfy as a deskchair is, I'm way more comfy with the console/tv/gamepad setup.
Well it is certainly in decline. Given what a (average)gaming PC costs(800-1000$) and what a 360/ps3/wii costs, I would say the console market is much more affordable. I believe pc gaming is dying because it is out of reach of too many people.
You would not believe just how many times we've been over those points.
Link me then if you want to complain about it. I've gone back 6 pages and its constant chatter about piracy being the root cause. I have yet to hear a single word why this thinking is wrong/incorrect.
It's been done and redone on the forum, not this specific thread. Some of us have been hearing people claim PCs are dying for the past 15 years, so you'll excuse us if we're both bored and skeptical of these claims.
Well it is certainly in decline. Given what a (average)gaming PC costs(800-1000$) and what a 360/ps3/wii costs, I would say the console market is much more affordable. I believe pc gaming is dying because it is out of reach of too many people.
You would not believe just how many times we've been over those points.
Link me then if you want to complain about it. I've gone back 6 pages and its constant chatter about piracy being the root cause. I have yet to hear a single word why this thinking is wrong/incorrect.
Oh don't worry, it wasn't much more than a general complaint, I wasn't specifically directing it at you.
But if you're curious, the reason that it hasn't cropped up in this thread is that most of us tired that strain of thought out ages ago in the last dozen "PC gaming is dying olol" threads I'm afraid. Most of us have pretty much agreed by now that PC gaming isn't going to die, and that the issue of "cost" is far more complex and mis-represented that it's often initially made out to be. Of course, not everyone agree's with that, but in general, most of us decided on that point one way or another. If you're really insistent on it we can debate it later.
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ViscountalphaThe pen is mightier than the swordhttp://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered Userregular
Well it is certainly in decline. Given what a (average)gaming PC costs(800-1000$) and what a 360/ps3/wii costs, I would say the console market is much more affordable. I believe pc gaming is dying because it is out of reach of too many people.
You would not believe just how many times we've been over those points.
Link me then if you want to complain about it. I've gone back 6 pages and its constant chatter about piracy being the root cause. I have yet to hear a single word why this thinking is wrong/incorrect.
Oh don't worry, it wasn't much more than a general complaint, I wasn't specifically directing it at you.
But if you're curious, the reason that it hasn't cropped up in this thread is that most of us tired that strain of thought out ages ago in the last dozen "PC gaming is dying olol" threads I'm afraid. Most of us have pretty much agreed by now that PC gaming isn't going to die, and that the issue of "cost" is far more complex and mis-represented that it's often initially made out to be. Of course, not everyone agree's with that, but in general, most of us decided on that point one way or another. If you're really insistent on it we can debate it later.
I don't think it is going to die completely. I think PC gaming is not doing so well though. Steam seems very successful as well as a few crop of games like portal and neat mods that come out of the modding community. I will be surprised if games like TF2 and portal do not get more releases as sequels.
Pc's have a role and an ability that no console can currently match. I like the idea I can play games, do banking and schoolwork/office work all in the same box. Besides, They don't have a dosbox for consoles that let me play classic games like tyrian (yes I bought it) And enjoy yesterdays memories of gaming.
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Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
edited February 2008
Hey, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to double-click on something random in my Games folder and play a fucking game. I'm not going too worry about how bad the gaming scene supposedly is on my platform is, or how much it costs, or what some dudes who may or may not be influential in the gaming industry says. I'm going to put that goddamn disc in and not worry about maybe I should play the same game on a console instead since it'll be cheaper and less worrisome I get a big TV and a couch and that other shit or whatever else that people continually repeat ad naseum every single time.
Yes, I'm going to put that game in, run it, and slouch over my desk like a neanderthal with a archaic and uncomfortable user interface devices. And you know what? I'm going to have fun doing it. And I don't care what anyone else says. Imagine that! Playing games for fun instead of arguing about it.
More expensive for a console? yes. But compared to a PC? it is dirt cheap. You also get the blu-ray movie functionality too. It would be impossible to build a PC with a blu-ray drive for 600$. All I am saying with this discussion is that PC gaming is losing its steam because it has become far too expensive to make a gaming machine when there are consoles that are comparable in primary features.
You could actually (these weren't the cheapest components either, it's a fairly sturdy rig that you would get a good 720p gaming experience from probably matching the ps3/360 on many multiplatform titles.
Parts from newegg.
AMD X2 4000+
8600GT OC
2GB Ram
Blu Ray
Vista
Just shy of $600
Details in the spoiler
APEVIA X-QPACK-NW-BK/420 Black Aluminum 1.0 w/ ABS plastic front panel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 420W Power Supply
$74.99
Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$49.99
ASUS M2N-MX SE Plus AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
Microsoft Windows Vista 32-Bit Home Basic for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM
$89.99
Total $598.92
Essentially PC has many problems. I really think that whilst piracy is obviously a bad thing, a magic bullet that stopped piracy wouldn't solve much. The problems that PC really faces are advertising, shelfspace and mindshare. The price of the PC is probably the least of it's problems, in fact it's probably it's own worst enemy as now laptops are so cheap that they're obliterating the desktop market.
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First time I've ever been told I'll lose system connectivity if I refuse to patch.
A trend which fills me with GENERIC RAGE.
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Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
Yeah, man... don't call me on quotes. Anyways http://www.www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20061229150853.html
Should give you a look at roughly how the market breaks down. So it's a generally perceived tenant that there's more money in the low-end than the highend. If you add on top of that the mobile graphics market that nvidia currently has something like a 40% share, and the motherboard chipset business then that high-end is a really small part of nVidias overall money raking operation.
I mean, really, what good games are there right now that came out in the last year for the PC? (I don't like RTS games because I suck hard at them)
Orange Box -> Sweet, but TF2 got pretty old pretty quickly. With 5 maps (it's at 6 now right?) it just didn't hold my attention as long as I wanted it. Portal was amazing, as was HL2:E2.
STALKER -> Lulz. I don't even know why this game is considered an RPG. Is it just because of the equipable items? Really? Regardless, this game wasn't as good as everyone claimed it was.
UT3 -> Great for about a week, then it got bland.
Crysis -> Fun for a short time (I upgraded my DVD Burner to a new Lite-On, and now the game clicks when it's in the drive. Still not patched since release.)
The Witcher -> I got about 2 hours into it, when I realized the entire game was a huge fetch quest. The fighting system wasn't very good either.
World in Conflict -> I liked this game for a little bit (started a thread on it) but I thought the MP was pretty bad.
Bioshock -> It was good, but not nearly as good as System Shock 2.
But these are all my opinions, so please don't act like they are fact. I just don't think there's been a game that's "refreshed" the PC gaming industry.
Can you explain how 'Performance' is classed as low end? Surely budget is the low end of that data? Or mainstream?
800 dollar gpus are not high end. they are super high end.
when you said 'most of nvidias money comes from low end cards' i assumed what was meant was the low end, not the 'lower high end'.
or whatever. its semantics.
He said mid to low. I say mid. That graph bears it out. My card was $320 and was second in line in NVidia's lineup at the time. $150 - $250 is absolutely mid-range - ignore the 'performance' headings. Those are your 8600s and whatnot. When I got my card there was NO 8800 under $300 and those are the 'Enthusiast' cards. Those are the high range.
That graph is pretty much what we were saying.
PS The low end isn't going to see much since those are specifically 'add-in' cards, not onboard, and the people who are buying graphics cards individually are not typically the ones buying the cheapest one available.
Haha. I remember when the latest Sims 2 expansion came out. There was a mob of mothers with their daughters at the local Best Buy. Unfortunately for Best Buy they did not get their shipment in that day. I thought the mob was going to burn the place to the ground! So violent they were! I'm sure many an employee that day needed therapy after words.
I won't argue with you over your opinions on the other games, but Crysis was patched.
The patch is just surprisingly absent from almost everywhere.
I've bought every sims game and every sims expansion for my sister since she started playing it. probably spent nearly a thousand pounds on that game in one way or another.
worth it. sims and all the content for it, every time i bring one round to her house (she doesnt follow release dates) she brightens up and immediately installs it. even if its like a content pack with like 5 items. bought her sims 2 university for when she left for uni. great gift.
id imagine this is what buying someone a Wii feels like. its great to introduce non gamers to even the most superficial aspects of the gaming scene. sims is one of them.
Wow....okay..... can I ask what games you are playing than? especially if you think that pc gaming is stale
Which btw I disagree but it's just different opinions
No, no, I hear you. But Sins is so nichey that the development costs are obviously lower. And it's cool to see that game get some love. But something with a bigger marketing and development budget would be a risky proposition on PC right now, and I think we're seeing the upshot in people heading to console-ville.
I actually think it's probably a temporary hurdle for PC gaming. I don't know the specifics of how much something like Steam prevents piracy, but I'm sure it slows it down, and I'm sure there's going to be more like it going forward.
I was really just making a point about how hardcore gamers tend to complain the loudest about how the industry spits out kiddy/casual stuff, but they're also the most likely to pirate. And the shift to closed systems (whether that's a console or something like Steam that has more authentication built in) is just inevitable when you're making content for people who are extremely good at pirating things.
Pokemans D/P: 1289 4685 0522
I have to take issue with his TF2 beef as well. There are a hell of a lot more than 6 maps, it's just that they're player made. And for the most part they're good. I've played probably upwards of 20 different maps, varying in degree of quality.
And poor Stalker, the gaming world's red headed step child. It is a good game if you can get past all the bugs.
Regardless, these are all opinions, but I find it hard to believe you could call the PC market stale, last year alone was pretty good, and this year is shaping up to be awesome as well. I also don't see how the next gen console market could be considered anything but stale if you don't include the Wii.
TF2 -> I only played on the PA server, so whatever they had on there I played. And they didn't add any of the new ones to their rotation.
What's coming out this year? Another WoW expansion?
Look those are the biggest hits for the PC within the last year (that I played) and it felt like I played all those games before. They didn't bring anything new to the table.
And you say 'another WoW expansion' as though that's a bad thing. the last one was the best selling Pc game of 2007, by a fucking mile.
I wouldn't doubt it. WoWheads are completely engrossed in that game.
What/who is Alan Wake? (Unfortunately I now have to leave for class until 8pm.
Alan Wake is a video game being developed by Remedy Entertainment, the Finnish company behind the Max Payne games. Alan Wake is billed as a "psychological action thriller". Microsoft Game Studios is the publisher of the game. The game is being developed exclusively for Windows Vista and Xbox 360, with a PlayStation 3 version also planned but then cancelled when Microsoft acquired publisher rights of the title.
Oh, and it looks pretty amazing.
Dawn of War expansion, Starcraft 2, WoW expansion, Mass Effect PC, Stalker, Command and Conquer 3 expansion, Assassin Creed, Left for Dead, Alan Wake, I know there's tons more as well but I also totally disagree with you that none of the pc games that you played brought something to the table because games like Bioshock, Team Fortress 2, portal all brought things to the market
Heck even Hellgate London even though it had a dissapointing launch was still a fun game that is getting better, It honestly makes me shake my head at the people that think pc gaming is getting stale and dieing but it's really just a dissapointing to see.
absolutely, I just didn't want to say that because it hasn't been officially confirmed but I can't wait for another expansion
Well it is certainly in decline. Given what a (average)gaming PC costs(800-1000$) and what a 360/ps3/wii costs, I would say the console market is much more affordable. I believe pc gaming is dying because it is out of reach of too many people.
You would not believe just how many times we've been over those points.
Link me then if you want to complain about it. I've gone back 6 pages and its constant chatter about piracy being the root cause. I have yet to hear a single word why this thinking is wrong/incorrect.
More expensive for a console? yes. But compared to a PC? it is dirt cheap. You also get the blu-ray movie functionality too. It would be impossible to build a PC with a blu-ray drive for 600$. All I am saying with this discussion is that PC gaming is losing its steam because it has become far too expensive to make a gaming machine when there are consoles that are comparable in primary features.
Well it's not like you're getting out the door for $600 dollars exact. With accessories and some games it quickly approaches the cost of a mid-grade computer. Plus the games are more expensive than their PC counterparts, modding and user made additions are practically gone, and you have to deal with downloadable content. Both PC's and consoles have pluses and negatives, but endlessly trying to say which is better is an exercise in futility. Yes the PC market is shrinking a bit, but it's for multiple reasons vs. one huge one.
Edit: And yes you do get Blu-ray functionality, but if HD-DVD had won the fight, the PS3 would be pretty worthless, and Sony only put it in the PS3 in the first place, to leverage it as a technology. They just happened to get extremely lucky this time.
I figure that would cost me around $400, depending heavily on the videocard I bought... the same as a PS3 and $50 more than a 360 Premium.
But even if that breaks about even, I personally find it to be too much hassle to deal with, and I just don't care. Especially if things are going to have to start requiring Vista, which is another expense.
Plus, I've gotten to really enjoy playing games on a couch and on a large TV, and I just don't think I could ever go back to hunching over a keyboard and mouse in a deskchair. Comfy as a deskchair is, I'm way more comfy with the console/tv/gamepad setup.
Anyway... :P
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Oh don't worry, it wasn't much more than a general complaint, I wasn't specifically directing it at you.
But if you're curious, the reason that it hasn't cropped up in this thread is that most of us tired that strain of thought out ages ago in the last dozen "PC gaming is dying olol" threads I'm afraid. Most of us have pretty much agreed by now that PC gaming isn't going to die, and that the issue of "cost" is far more complex and mis-represented that it's often initially made out to be. Of course, not everyone agree's with that, but in general, most of us decided on that point one way or another. If you're really insistent on it we can debate it later.
I don't think it is going to die completely. I think PC gaming is not doing so well though. Steam seems very successful as well as a few crop of games like portal and neat mods that come out of the modding community. I will be surprised if games like TF2 and portal do not get more releases as sequels.
Pc's have a role and an ability that no console can currently match. I like the idea I can play games, do banking and schoolwork/office work all in the same box. Besides, They don't have a dosbox for consoles that let me play classic games like tyrian (yes I bought it) And enjoy yesterdays memories of gaming.
Yes, I'm going to put that game in, run it, and slouch over my desk like a neanderthal with a archaic and uncomfortable user interface devices. And you know what? I'm going to have fun doing it. And I don't care what anyone else says. Imagine that! Playing games for fun instead of arguing about it.
Oh, and piracy is bad, m'kay. Buy your games.
Please be Ostfront
Please be Ostfront
PLEASE BE OSTFRONT
You could actually (these weren't the cheapest components either, it's a fairly sturdy rig that you would get a good 720p gaming experience from probably matching the ps3/360 on many multiplatform titles.
Parts from newegg.
AMD X2 4000+
8600GT OC
2GB Ram
Blu Ray
Vista
Just shy of $600
Details in the spoiler
APEVIA X-QPACK-NW-BK/420 Black Aluminum 1.0 w/ ABS plastic front panel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 420W Power Supply
$74.99
Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$49.99
ASUS M2N-MX SE Plus AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
$54.99
MSI NX8600GT-T2D256E OC GeForce 8600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card
$73.99
LITE-ON Black SATA Blu-ray DVD-ROM Drive Model DH-4O1S-08
$149.99
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ
$44.99
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Brisbane 2.1GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADO4000DDBOX
$59.99
Microsoft Windows Vista 32-Bit Home Basic for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM
$89.99
Total $598.92
Essentially PC has many problems. I really think that whilst piracy is obviously a bad thing, a magic bullet that stopped piracy wouldn't solve much. The problems that PC really faces are advertising, shelfspace and mindshare. The price of the PC is probably the least of it's problems, in fact it's probably it's own worst enemy as now laptops are so cheap that they're obliterating the desktop market.
It has Russians. So yeah, Ostfront.
Votes on there being a "defence of Stalingrad" level, probably to start the campaign?