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Microsoft GDC Keynote thread - Gears 2 Nov / Fable 2 Co-Op / Demos on XBL after show

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    bongibongi regular
    edited February 2008
    Greg USN wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    Greg USN wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    Greg USN wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    bongi wrote: »
    geez loise fiaryn, did you whine every time a game doesn't give you a choice about something or do you just hate dogs?

    'save cortana from the flood? but i don't wanna!'

    I'm going to assume you're joking, but in case you're not:

    Yeah I DO have a problem with not having a choice, particularly when it's about highly unnecessary shit. In an adventure game, being saddled with an NPC with no real choice is not appealing. And no, Cortana and the Dog are in no way equitable. I'm not even going to pretend that's a legitimate analogy, you shouldn't either. Stop that. What really irritates me more than anything though is that they do give you a choice but it's slanted as all get out. Better no choice than a heavily slanted one.

    "Oh sure you can not have the dog, just crush your empathy first and you're a-go!" :|
    alyx vance

    Never played through Half-Life 2, the game bored me to death. Couldn't give you a reason either, it's kinda odd.


    It's not that odd. The game is a tedious snooze-fest


    I am confused. I know what all these words mean, but I can't comprehend the sentence.

    Half-Life 2 =
    a screaming baby
    and yet your signature clearly shows you're playing through lost odyssey, being a jrpg, the only genre of game shown to be less exciting than watching paint dry

    I am enjoying the hell out of Lost Odyssey. I guess I like games with a story? And a protaganist that talks?
    Seriously, there is nothing to argue about, I think half-life 2 sucks and that really shouldn't ruin your day.
    I gave it an honest no shit full playthrough with the orange box... thank god portal ruled and EP2 had its moments.

    So how about that Fable dog?
    so you like games that are glorified pulp trash fantasy novels and not games that are actually games

    okay

    bongi on
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    MinionOfCthulhuMinionOfCthulhu Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Dammit, can we actually talk about the GDC?

    MinionOfCthulhu on
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    DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2008
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Wow, 4? 5? pages of dog complaints and no one mentions the true issue. The reason why the guy is upset is that you have to choose to run away to get rid of it. Why can't you give the dog to a nice kid? Why can't you give it to a blind man, or to a woman as a gift? It's forcing you to be a dick to get rid of it. I think that's the point the other person was trying to make, and a point I agree with.

    According to someone on Wikipedia, you can tie it up to a pole and fuck it. Though I'm waiting for a citation.

    And you can't choose the easy way because the dog is a mechanic that they want to have in the game. It's like bitching about how you can't choose to play as Dante for the entirety of DMC4. Thats the design choice they've made.

    It's a dog that will serve you loyally like any dog and, as Petey has said, is designed to NOT get in your way. Its just an NPC that will stick by your side through thick and thin. If you want to get rid of it, you're being a dick. If you think it will in some way dramatically reduce your enjoyment of the game, you're being a dick. If you do actually go out of your way to injure and run away from it, you are being a huge dick.

    My point is, its a cool dog and it could be one of the best and most obvious attempts at drawing you into a game ever. I will have to pray for this to come to the PC but I for one cannot wait to run into battle with my loyal doggy at my side. I will not be getting pissy because its limping for biting the guy trying to kill me.

    DarkWarrior on
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    mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I know I'm not the only one who would be interested in Fable 2 if they weren't so badly burned by Fable 1.

    Now, Fable 1 isn't a bad game per se, but it is middling and average in every way possible.

    mynameisguido on
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    PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    According to someone on Wikipedia, you can tie it up to a pole and fuck it.
    I... I think I found my new wife. :winky:

    PikaPuff on
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Fable n+1
    Gears of War n+1
    Couldn't give a shit.

    THE RETURN OF FUCKING PUBLIC DOMAIN/SHAREWARE/INDIE BEDROOM CODERS

    But on a console
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW
    Making Games is open to all developers for £65? Or FREE for students!
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW by other developers.
    You can give certified games away OR charge for them?
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW rather than MS certification (i.e. no overheads)
    The example games (The Dishwasher and Culture) FUCKING ROCK.
    ON A CONSOLE.

    This is quite literally my dream come true. If I hadn't had got a 360 (for Live Arcade) this xmas - then this would have lead to insta-buy.

    This is the best thing to happen to consoles since the Wii remote.

    Lave II on
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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    Lave II wrote: »
    Fable n+1
    Gears of War n+1
    Couldn't give a shit.

    THE RETURN OF FUCKING PUBLIC DOMAIN/SHAREWARE/INDIE BEDROOM CODERS

    But on a console
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW
    Making Games is open to all developers for £65? Or FREE for students!
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW by other developers.
    You can give certified games away OR charge for them?
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW rather than MS certification (i.e. no overheads)
    The example games (The Dishwasher and Culture) FUCKING ROCK.
    ON A CONSOLE.

    This is quite literally my dream come true. If I hadn't had got a 360 (for Live Arcade) this xmas - then this would have lead to insta-buy.

    This is the best thing to happen to consoles since the Wii remote.

    The only bad thing is that a lot of people are going to not play them due to no achievements.

    FyreWulff on
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Lave II wrote: »
    Fable n+1
    Gears of War n+1
    Couldn't give a shit.

    THE RETURN OF FUCKING PUBLIC DOMAIN/SHAREWARE/INDIE BEDROOM CODERS
    But on a console
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW
    Making Games is open to all developers for £65? Or FREE for students!
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW by other developers.
    You can give certified games away OR charge for them?
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW rather than MS certification (i.e. no overheads)
    The example games (The Dishwasher and Culture) FUCKING ROCK.
    ON A CONSOLE.

    This is quite literally my dream come true. If I hadn't had got a 360 (for Live Arcade) this xmas - then this would have lead to insta-buy.

    This is the best thing to happen to consoles since the Wii remote.

    The only bad thing is that a lot of people are going to not play them due to no achievements.

    Awesome! That means the sub-community that rates and plays the indies games will have already culled most of the twats out.

    Lave II on
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    PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Lave II wrote: »
    Fable n+1
    Gears of War n+1
    Couldn't give a shit.

    THE RETURN OF FUCKING PUBLIC DOMAIN/SHAREWARE/INDIE BEDROOM CODERS

    But on a console
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW
    Making Games is open to all developers for £65? Or FREE for students!
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW by other developers.
    You can give certified games away OR charge for them?
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW rather than MS certification (i.e. no overheads)
    The example games (The Dishwasher and Culture) FUCKING ROCK.
    ON A CONSOLE.

    This is quite literally my dream come true. If I hadn't had got a 360 (for Live Arcade) this xmas - then this would have lead to insta-buy.

    This is the best thing to happen to consoles since the Wii remote.
    What's this peer fucking review shit all about? I'm interpreting those lines as saying "you can put up your own games as long as microsoft gives it the OK."

    So uh, tell me I'm wrong and please quote some text saying what the XNA features are all about. I really want to buy all the stuff now, if they're saying what I hope they're saying.

    PikaPuff on
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Lave II wrote: »
    Fable n+1
    Gears of War n+1
    Couldn't give a shit.

    THE RETURN OF FUCKING PUBLIC DOMAIN/SHAREWARE/INDIE BEDROOM CODERS

    But on a console
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW
    Making Games is open to all developers for £65? Or FREE for students!
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW by other developers.
    You can give certified games away OR charge for them?
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW rather than MS certification (i.e. no overheads)
    The example games (The Dishwasher and Culture) FUCKING ROCK.
    ON A CONSOLE.

    This is quite literally my dream come true. If I hadn't had got a 360 (for Live Arcade) this xmas - then this would have lead to insta-buy.

    This is the best thing to happen to consoles since the Wii remote.
    What's this peer fucking review shit all about? I'm interpreting those lines as saying "you can put up your own games as long as microsoft gives it the OK."

    So uh, tell me I'm wrong and please quote some text saying what the XNA features are all about. I really want to buy all the stuff now, if they're saying what I hope they're saying.

    Sorry I forget that Peer-Review isn't a widely used thing. Basically it's the exact opposite.

    Peer review is what makes Science awesome basically - and MS have stolen it for this.

    Instead of microsoft checking every single indie game to make sure it doesn't violate IP, or is terrible, or broken, or bugged. Which would cost huge amounts of money they instead (before a game is released to the general public) give it to other indie developers for them to rate and comment on. If they like it, it gets through. If it's broken on shit, or stolen then it doesn't.

    tl ; dr - the developers of indie games all review each others games before they are published to check they are decent. So standards are massively higher, and as it's free to MS the games can be free OR charged.

    Lave II on
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    LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    See youtube
    D:

    LewieP on
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
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    CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I really don't want the dog. I love dogs, and appreciate them for creating that particular mechanic, but you just know something horrible is going to happen to it sooner or later, and I'd be sad for weeks :(

    It's a thing I have. You know that one quest in The Witcher where you have to slaughter dogs for the gravedigger? Man, the completionist got the better of me in that one, but I felt so fucking bad after having done it. If there's anything that can move me emotionally, it's dogs. Not much else, but dogs get me every time.

    Cherrn on
    All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    See youtube
    D:

    I don't get you. Youtube isn't peer review. It's open review.

    In science, peer review is when one lot of researchers work is checked by sending it to other scientists who try and prove it wrong. If they can't it gets published. If Peer-Review followed the YouTube model, then Darwinsim woud be fucked.

    (Aside: Despite me being really, really happy theyve done it this way - it's peer review which has kept me from the forums recently as I argue with my Peer Reviewer on the nature of the Interstellar medium. It's not fun - but it keeps standards so fucking high.)

    Lave II on
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    LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Yeah, you are right.

    LewieP on
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    DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2008
    Cherrn wrote: »
    I really don't want the dog. I love dogs, and appreciate them for creating that particular mechanic, but you just know something horrible is going to happen to it sooner or later, and I'd be sad for weeks :(

    It depends, hopefully it will give you the choice. It tried this in the first one with the sister and you're all, ok, I knew her for 2 minutes then I met her again, I don't really give a shit, bam. I only went good because I was good and doing the opposite would be, well, evil. The dog seems to be an effort to change the severe lack of empathy you had for your fairly lame family characters.

    DarkWarrior on
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    HandkorHandkor Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Lave II wrote: »
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Lave II wrote: »
    Fable n+1
    Gears of War n+1
    Couldn't give a shit.

    THE RETURN OF FUCKING PUBLIC DOMAIN/SHAREWARE/INDIE BEDROOM CODERS

    But on a console
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW
    Making Games is open to all developers for £65? Or FREE for students!
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW by other developers.
    You can give certified games away OR charge for them?
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW rather than MS certification (i.e. no overheads)
    The example games (The Dishwasher and Culture) FUCKING ROCK.
    ON A CONSOLE.

    This is quite literally my dream come true. If I hadn't had got a 360 (for Live Arcade) this xmas - then this would have lead to insta-buy.

    This is the best thing to happen to consoles since the Wii remote.
    What's this peer fucking review shit all about? I'm interpreting those lines as saying "you can put up your own games as long as microsoft gives it the OK."

    So uh, tell me I'm wrong and please quote some text saying what the XNA features are all about. I really want to buy all the stuff now, if they're saying what I hope they're saying.

    Sorry I forget that Peer-Review isn't a widely used thing. Basically it's the exact opposite.

    Peer review is what makes Science awesome basically - and MS have stolen it for this.

    Instead of microsoft checking every single indie game to make sure it doesn't violate IP, or is terrible, or broken, or bugged. Which would cost huge amounts of money they instead (before a game is released to the general public) give it to other indie developers for them to rate and comment on. If they like it, it gets through. If it's broken on shit, or stolen then it doesn't.

    tl ; dr - the developers of indie games all review each others games before they are published to check they are decent. So standards are massively higher, and as it's free to MS the games can be free OR charged.

    This is what I've been waiting for ever since I've been working with XNA, the great thing about the peer review thing too is the community will be able to suggest improvements to your games so if it's not quite ready for primetime the community will tell you what is missing.

    Handkor on
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    Yeah, you are right.

    Of course you could be right too, and they completely fuck it up. But if the examples are anything to go by we are in for a treat.

    Lave II on
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    chesspiecefacechesspieceface Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Handkor wrote: »
    Lave II wrote: »
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Lave II wrote: »
    Fable n+1
    Gears of War n+1
    Couldn't give a shit.

    THE RETURN OF FUCKING PUBLIC DOMAIN/SHAREWARE/INDIE BEDROOM CODERS

    But on a console
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW
    Making Games is open to all developers for £65? Or FREE for students!
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW by other developers.
    You can give certified games away OR charge for them?
    PEER FUCKING REVIEW rather than MS certification (i.e. no overheads)
    The example games (The Dishwasher and Culture) FUCKING ROCK.
    ON A CONSOLE.

    This is quite literally my dream come true. If I hadn't had got a 360 (for Live Arcade) this xmas - then this would have lead to insta-buy.

    This is the best thing to happen to consoles since the Wii remote.
    What's this peer fucking review shit all about? I'm interpreting those lines as saying "you can put up your own games as long as microsoft gives it the OK."

    So uh, tell me I'm wrong and please quote some text saying what the XNA features are all about. I really want to buy all the stuff now, if they're saying what I hope they're saying.

    Sorry I forget that Peer-Review isn't a widely used thing. Basically it's the exact opposite.

    Peer review is what makes Science awesome basically - and MS have stolen it for this.

    Instead of microsoft checking every single indie game to make sure it doesn't violate IP, or is terrible, or broken, or bugged. Which would cost huge amounts of money they instead (before a game is released to the general public) give it to other indie developers for them to rate and comment on. If they like it, it gets through. If it's broken on shit, or stolen then it doesn't.

    tl ; dr - the developers of indie games all review each others games before they are published to check they are decent. So standards are massively higher, and as it's free to MS the games can be free OR charged.

    This is what I've been waiting for ever since I've been working with XNA, the great thing about the peer review thing too is the community will be able to suggest improvements to your games so if it's not quite ready for primetime the community will tell you what is missing.

    Speaking of which, am I the only one that doesn't like it in Proximity HD that you can't leave a game and go back to the menu screen? Also it seems to roll against you like crazy. The comps get to throw down high double digits while i'm always sitting there with a hand of single digit tiles. BOOOO.

    Jelly Car: love this, but some of the physics on the puzzles could use a bit of work. I find that i'm often getting flipped upside down with no real way of righting my self. If they want to make the game so that it is all about perfecting it on one pass then they need to adjust the acceleration/deceleration of the car so that you can manage your movements better. I'm specifically referring to the Crusher level.

    chesspieceface on
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    Willie Tanner Livestream
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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    Right yourself by tilting the control stick left and right and messing with the gas

    he could have been a bit more clear on that though.

    FyreWulff on
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    chesspiecefacechesspieceface Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Right yourself by tilting the control stick left and right and messing with the gas

    he could have been a bit more clear on that though.

    Yeah, i got that. But the design of the Crusher level in a lot of places prohibits your ability to right yourself. so you find yourself just flipping and then getting caught and flipping and getting caught. in some of the more complex levels it seems there either needs to be a better way to right yourself or more control of the movement so that you don't get into those positions to begin with.

    Edit: this isn't a huge deal, because the game is silly in general so it doesn't feel overly frustrating, but i think it's easy to imagine a lot of cool level designs that could be made for the game which would be limited by the lack of control over this one aspect.

    chesspieceface on
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    Willie Tanner Livestream
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    CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    All this XNA stuff is great and all, but when can we actually play these games? Seems like we've been hearing about Dishwasher for a year now.

    Cherrn on
    All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Cherrn wrote: »
    All this XNA stuff is great and all, but when can we actually play these games? Seems like we've been hearing about Dishwasher for a year now.

    Now and for the next 17 days you can play a bunch of em. Dishwasher, Jelly Car, Culture and a few more.

    Go to "new arrivals" scroll to the bottom and download 'XNA Community Games" thingy, this adds a new tab in your "game library" which lets you download the games.

    Lave II on
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    CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Ah, awesome, thanks.

    Cherrn on
    All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
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    Regicid3Regicid3 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Fable 2 has coop? On Xbox Live, I assume?

    Tits.

    All that stuff for indie devs is great too.

    Regicid3 on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Everyone keeps mentioning Jelly Car.. am I missing something? I tried it, I drove my tilty, wobbly car from left to right, hit the exit.. and that's it. End of demo. It was basically no different to the many, many Flash games I see every week when I'm bored. Culture started off nicely, but ran out of ideas before it got going.
    Now Dishwasher? That's a game I'm buying on release because goodness me is that refined awesome and beauty.

    darleysam on
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    chesspiecefacechesspieceface Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    darleysam wrote: »
    Everyone keeps mentioning Jelly Car.. am I missing something? I tried it, I drove my tilty, wobbly car from left to right, hit the exit.. and that's it. End of demo. It was basically no different to the many, many Flash games I see every week when I'm bored. Culture started off nicely, but ran out of ideas before it got going.
    Now Dishwasher? That's a game I'm buying on release because goodness me is that refined awesome and beauty.

    did you play any of the other levels? if you press down on the stick in the main menu you can select other levels.

    chesspieceface on
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    Willie Tanner Livestream
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    Lave IILave II Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    darleysam wrote: »
    Everyone keeps mentioning Jelly Car.. am I missing something? I tried it, I drove my tilty, wobbly car from left to right, hit the exit.. and that's it. End of demo. It was basically no different to the many, many Flash games I see every week when I'm bored. Culture started off nicely, but ran out of ideas before it got going.
    Now Dishwasher? That's a game I'm buying on release because goodness me is that refined awesome and beauty.

    On the main screen you can press up and down to load other levels.
    EDIT: I am Beat Mc'eted.

    Lave II on
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    Recoil42Recoil42 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Jelly Car is crashing my Xbox on launch. :/

    I don't even get to the title screen.

    edit: Also, why do these games take such a long time to start up?

    Recoil42 on
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    Jean Claude Van CalmJean Claude Van Calm 'sup? Awesome Possum.Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I know this thread doesn't need another "Ololz dishwasher r awesome"


    But holy shit dishwasher r awesome, I haven't enjoyed a 2D side scroller since like mario or some other old shit.

    Jean Claude Van Calm on
    PSN: Grimmsy- Xbox Live: Grimmsy
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    Waka LakaWaka Laka Riding the stuffed Unicorn If ya know what I mean.Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Fable 2 looks like its shaping up to what it was meant to be in the first place.

    Ninja Gaiden 2 holy shit.

    UT3 Engine upgrades for Gears of War-glad they're keeping up with tack-on engine additions, they better fix the pop in and memory management garbage alot of developers are facing.

    Waka Laka on
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    Kemal86Kemal86 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I'm not sure if it's been posted yet, but a video of the new Unreal Engine 3 stuff is up on gamevideos, it looks pretty hawt.

    http://download.gamevideos.com/17644/gv.com.GDC2008UnrealDemo_640x360.mov

    Kemal86 on
    i used to test games now i sit on my couch and am lazy all day
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    MinionOfCthulhuMinionOfCthulhu Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    So what's for download on XBL?

    MinionOfCthulhu on
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    Radikal_DreamerRadikal_Dreamer Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Kemal86 wrote: »
    I'm not sure if it's been posted yet, but a video of the new Unreal Engine 3 stuff is up on gamevideos, it looks pretty hawt.

    http://download.gamevideos.com/17644/gv.com.GDC2008UnrealDemo_640x360.mov

    Cool stuff, but jesus they really need someone else to talk for them.

    Radikal_Dreamer on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Wow, NG2 looks really underwhelming. It essentially looks exactly like NG1 in terms of graphical prowess, though I'm sure the game will still kick my ass.

    UnbreakableVow on
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Kemal86 wrote: »
    I'm not sure if it's been posted yet, but a video of the new Unreal Engine 3 stuff is up on gamevideos, it looks pretty hawt.

    http://download.gamevideos.com/17644/gv.com.GDC2008UnrealDemo_640x360.mov

    Cool stuff, but jesus they really need someone else to talk for them.

    Well, the other two figureheads are Cliffy B and Mark Rein.. Both of which have been opening their mouths a little too much lately.

    But yeah, that was a cool presentation, but it was painful to listen to the guy speak. Sounded like he was out of breath half of the time.

    Undead Scottsman on
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    UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Team Ninja games have been a little underwhelming in general since the original XBox and DOA3. The games are getting better looking, but the problem is they have a weird style of putting anime/manga inspired characters into highly modeled and textured scenes.

    If you compare directly, you'll notice that the textures have gotten much sharper in NG2, and the difference in display resolution is of course pronounced. Really though, I think that they've basically gone as far as is possible with their aesthetic, since they don't incorporate volumetric lighting or even much in the way of normal mapping in their games. We're still basically just seeing flat-shaded characters put into sharply textured costumes and levels.

    Ultimanecat on
    SteamID : same as my PA forum name
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Huh...

    This Dishwasher game is apparently so awesome that I've been staring at a blank screen for a few minutes after I decided to start playing it.

    EDIT: Got it to work. I didn't know Hot Topic was a developer now!

    UnbreakableVow on
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    JCRooksJCRooks Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Man. I really wish stuff like XNA Game Studio and Community Games stuff was around when I was in school. We were pretty much forced to settle for modding existing games, which has its pros and cons. (Pros = you can use an existing engine, etc. Cons = you were forced to the limitations of what that engine and scripting language would provide)

    The Dishwasher game is pretty cool. I played it at GameFest last year. I really want to try to the Jelly Car game though. I'll have to swing by the booth again tomorrow.

    On the plus side, I got to play Super Smash Bros Brawl at the Nintendo booth. :D

    JCRooks on
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    AkinosAkinos Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    So I was mostly underwhelmed by the XNA games, as I avoided Dishwasher the whole time based on the name Dishwasher.

    But then I played Dishwasher. Hot damn, that shit is better than a lot of whats currently available on the Arcade. I looooove me some Right-Stick-Flick-Teleportation.

    And I couldn't seem to use it, but the controls mentioned a chainsaw. Excellent.

    Akinos on
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