Options

Champions online!

1505153555662

Posts

  • Options
    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I'm probably going to skip a couple weeks of beta and perhaps in my time off they will improve the game to the point where I enjoy it. Right now logging in and playing feels like a chore.

    Lucascraft on
  • Options
    PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I'm probably going to skip a couple weeks of beta and perhaps in my time off they will improve the game to the point where I enjoy it. Right now logging in and playing feels like a chore.

    I... I could log in for you, if you like.

    Pony on
  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I'm don't want to get into the beta until it goes 24/7. I'd probably miss out on 60% of the testing time if I had been in it already.

    Undead Scottsman on
  • Options
    Paradox ControlParadox Control Master MC Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I honestly don't think the game is awful. I mean I can make a rad looking dude at level 1 and get some cool powers and run around blasting or smashing the shit out of guys. At its most basic level, its really really fun. But I worry about how the end game is going to play out. How there going to make it easy for new players to understand how to build a character that doesn't suck (more choices = more chances to fail). How there going to make PVP interesting and not have it be the same builds over and over again (again having more choices makes it more likely to happen).

    I haven't done any real group missions or strong holds but I wonder how there going to make Tanking and Healing work. Its clear that its important, and that you are probably going to need a guy to support and a guy to tank, but I have no idea how that works or if anyone has even tried to make it work.

    Paradox Control on
    \
  • Options
    devoirdevoir Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Is it really fun at 5 hours, 10, 50? Because almost everything I've read indicates that it isn't. Even people who like the game and defend it say that the actual combat isn't great, which doesn't speak well for its mass appeal.

    devoir on
  • Options
    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Scooter wrote: »
    Personally my main complaint with ChO is that it feels too much like WoW.

    Which is a design thing.

    Pretty much. Six weeks won't do a thing to change Champions for me, because what I don't like about it is at the fundamental base design level.

    korodullin on
    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • Options
    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    "Next time... bring a bigger tank!"

    that made me giggle. I'll be eagerly awaiting the free trial for this.

    Aldo on
  • Options
    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Scooter wrote: »
    Personally my main complaint with ChO is that it feels too much like WoW.
    If that means I can play the game alone without getting bored out of my skull after the first mission that's a good thing in my book. I love CoX's character editor and ease of grouping, but WoW actually had me solo 70 levels and enjoy it.

    Glal on
  • Options
    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Well, are you thrilled by "Kill 10 wild animals" quests?

    Scooter on
  • Options
    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Scooter wrote: »
    Well, are you thrilled by "Kill 10 wild animals" quests?
    As long as it leads to either slightly interesting stories or more interesting quests I don't mind the odd grind quest.

    Like in LOTRO: first kill 10 salamanders to prove your worth, then brush off some statues and then traverse into the Tomb of Elendil to face off against the grave robber's leader and a gigantic turtle/dragon to pick up the broken sword Narsil, which you deliver to a master smith in Rivendell so that he may reforge the sword and help Aragorn underway.

    First two parts: boring, but nice exp and easy to solo. Last part: epic story telling, crazy bosses and fat epics.

    Aldo on
  • Options
    Cynic JesterCynic Jester Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    Scooter wrote: »
    Well, are you thrilled by "Kill 10 wild animals" quests?
    As long as it leads to either slightly interesting stories or more interesting quests I don't mind the odd grind quest.

    Like in LOTRO: first kill 10 salamanders to prove your worth, then brush off some statues and then traverse into the Tomb of Elendil to face off against the grave robber's leader and a gigantic turtle/dragon to pick up the broken sword Narsil, which you deliver to a master smith in Rivendell so that he may reforge the sword and help Aragorn underway.

    First two parts: boring, but nice exp and easy to solo. Last part: epic story telling, crazy bosses and fat epics.

    Yeah, that's probably more of a LotRO thing.

    Cynic Jester on
  • Options
    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Scooter wrote: »
    Well, are you thrilled by "Kill 10 wild animals" quests?
    If it's done in a large environment and the quests send me around new places? I don't mind them at all. Certainly preferable to kill-all quests in the same 10 ships/warehouses/buildings.

    Glal on
  • Options
    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    See, I just can't do without instances anymore. Not having other players get in my way, not having stuff spawn right on top of me, not having to wait in line to kill a certain named npc. Plus the story of the mission can be more than just "get me an arbitary number of samples" or "killing 10 of the infinitely respawning enemies will keep things under control". I'd rather deal with some repetitive settings if the gameplay itself was more enjoyable.

    Scooter on
  • Options
    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Okay, fine, let's go with that. Pretend Cryptic has as much time as they need: what do they need to do to "TURN IT AROUND?" Like, what specifically do they need to do RIGHT NOW that they can't accomplish in the remaining 14 weeks they have left until September 1st.
    I dunno. Ask the people in beta?

    From the sounds of it, making playing the game not feel like a "chore" after the honeymoon period might do it.

    forty on
  • Options
    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Its hard to talk about the good and bad aspects of the game and discuss what needs to be fixed to make it fun, when we are under the NDA.

    Lucascraft on
  • Options
    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I know. My point is that I'm not going to be able to tell either, but the other stuff I've said remains valid.

    forty on
  • Options
    JelloblimpJelloblimp Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Corvus wrote: »
    So, in general, does anyone believe an MMO can recover from a bad launch?
    People mention Age of Conan launch but it was nothing compared to Funcoms' first mmorpg-launch: Anarchy Online. AO did recover but it took a year or two iirc, but then there was no giant like WoW to compete with.

    Jelloblimp on
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    Paradox ControlParadox Control Master MC Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I don't think there going to have an awful launch to be honest. I think that so long as people can Log in, make a cool character, get the name they want, and start leveling with out much issue then its going to be fine.

    If the server is crashing every 5 min, and whatever, then its going to be an issue. Even more so because its ONE server.

    Paradox Control on
    \
  • Options
    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I don't think server stability will be a huge problem for Champions, even with the style of architecture they have going. If anything, it'll be (lack of) marketing and possibly player retention after the first month if the basic gameplay style doesn't stick.

    korodullin on
    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • Options
    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Yea, atm there probably isn't a single person who's heard of ChO and not heard of CoX, and probably very few people planning to play ChO who haven't played CoX at some point. Once the box is actually on shelves it can start picking up new people, but for a big chunk of customers it's going to be a fight to get them to switch over from CoX for more than the first month.

    Scooter on
  • Options
    Al BaronAl Baron Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    There's also the fact that this thing is suppose to have a 360 release, too. Who knows when that will happen, though.

    Al Baron on
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    forty wrote: »
    Okay, fine, let's go with that. Pretend Cryptic has as much time as they need: what do they need to do to "TURN IT AROUND?" Like, what specifically do they need to do RIGHT NOW that they can't accomplish in the remaining 14 weeks they have left until September 1st.
    I dunno. Ask the people in beta?

    From the sounds of it, making playing the game not feel like a "chore" after the honeymoon period might do it.
    I've often seen that a complaint about MMO's in general. (Especially towards WoW, which currently enjoys 11 million players, so who knows what "the real world" will find of Champions gameplay.)

    My point is, you really can't honestly say "Six weeks will make no difference" right now, without having first have knowledge. (Hell, even beta testers won't know what state the game will be in in three months, but that's neither here nor there.) Until we get an NDA drop, all we got are inferences and a small handful of people giving undetailed (justifiably undetailed) opinions.

    Will this crash and burn? It's a good bet; but I'm not going to say it with absolute conviction.

    Undead Scottsman on
  • Options
    devoirdevoir Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    korodullin wrote: »
    I don't think server stability will be a huge problem for Champions, even with the style of architecture they have going. If anything, it'll be (lack of) marketing and possibly player retention after the first month if the basic gameplay style doesn't stick.

    Ehh.

    This is not what I am hearing about their current playtests. And this has been going on for quite a while.

    For their sake I hope it's a matter of just throwing more hardware at the problem. Considering they've got 3 months to get all their content sorted, go gold, have some sort of stress test and finalise a day one patch and they're still in a very time-limited beta, it's touch and go.

    devoir on
  • Options
    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Well yeah, Cryptic's servers are absolutely horrid right now, and that's just with the limited beta population online for only two partial days a week. I don't expect the server situation to be flawless come release, but I think they'll do okay with it. I don't think they'll run into the kind of weird server and database meltdowns that Blizzard did when WoW launched.

    korodullin on
    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • Options
    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Scooter wrote: »
    See, I just can't do without instances anymore.
    And I can't stand instances. They're okay-ish if you just instance world sections and you're still at least potentially exploring new areas whilst doing repetitive quests, but even those feel dead and empty with absolutely no stray players around.
    CoX's system is the collection of worst possible choices as far as I'm concerned - exact same environments every time, and 99% of the time the only thing that might help distinguish them apart is buried in a story system that is (most of the time) just a wall of text. Nothing says excitement like standing there, reading text.

    Glal on
  • Options
    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I think the concept behind CoX's instances is great. The problem, as stated above, is in the execution. They needed to craft somewhere around 10-15 more possible map options. Maybe more.

    It seems that what they did was a tiered system. Level 1-20 basically gets warehouses, sewers, and caves. Then they add a few more at 20. Some of the coolest maps in CoX weren't even available until a person broke 35 or even 40. And a lot of people with alt-itis never make it past the 20s, therefore they never even got to see some of the coolest levels.

    And when they removed the 5th Column from the game, that really sucked because some of the 5th Column bases were among the coolest maps available. Plus killing Nazis in general is awesome. Terrible decision IMO to remove them.

    When they patched in the revamped warehouses with the Skulls overlay, it was a breath of fresh air. Sadly, they didn't take it nearly far enough, and the maps that actually used the new Skulls overlay were few and far between.

    Basically, a lack of variety is what made the instances so repetitive and boring in CoX.

    Lucascraft on
  • Options
    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    As an addendum to my above post, I also think that some of the levels were not particularly well designed, such as the basic cave layouts that were small and claustrophobic. And enemies would get wedged into the tiniest of crevices and were really hard to find sometimes. I often would skip missions that sent me into the caves, simply because they were so terrible.

    Lucascraft on
  • Options
    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    You know they didn't take out the 5th column bases, right? They just changed the flags from red to green.

    And also they just changed the uniforms from red to green. I've never really understood all the angst about a costume change.

    Scooter on
  • Options
    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Hmm. I could've sworn some of the bases were removed and replaced with new Council bases. Perhaps not. Its been quite a while now.

    And it's the principle of the thing. Killing Nazis is fun. When they changed to the Council, they just became another generic (and bland) villain group. And I'm pretty sure it was more than just a pallet change. I thought their actual costumes changed too?

    Lucascraft on
  • Options
    NarbusNarbus Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Hey Lucascraft, lookie lookie

    Narbus on
  • Options
    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    They were "replaced" in that the red flags were switched with green ones. The costumes did change in that instead of helmets they have face masks, but that's about it. The vamps, wolves and robots changed even less. And the only background diff is that the 5th were German-based fascists, and the Council is Italian-based fascists.

    Scooter on
  • Options
    Gennenalyse RuebenGennenalyse Rueben The Prettiest Boy is Ridiculously Pretty Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I'm also pretty certain that the Council are actually a tougher enemy group. I've seen level 50 5th Column enemies whose only attacks are like a pistol and grenade or something.

    Gennenalyse Rueben on
  • Options
    LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Scooter wrote: »
    They were "replaced" in that the red flags were switched with green ones. The costumes did change in that instead of helmets they have face masks, but that's about it. The vamps, wolves and robots changed even less. And the only background diff is that the 5th were German-based fascists, and the Council is Italian-based fascists.

    To be a nerd about it, the backstory for the 5th Column had the advantage of making fucking sense and actually having some sense of history and menace. This was the same group who tried to sabotage the U.S. before and during WW2. They're part of the reason there's a big statue of Atlas in Atlas Park.

    The Council, on the other hand, suffer from having to be associated with the utter logic-destroying lameness that is the Nictus Space Squid bullshit. So while the 5th Column plot arcs that explained how the Vampyri and the Warwolves were the results of separate sinister experiments, now they're both somehow the results of being face-fucked by evil alien calamari. And they added new Council enemies that look like luchadores.

    And Cryptic never bothered to give the Council any real motive for wanting to control the world. With the 5th Column, it makes sense, because, you know, they're Nazis. Take away that association and it behooves you to make even a tiny bit of effort to flesh out the remaining stuff.

    Lawndart on
  • Options
    Gennenalyse RuebenGennenalyse Rueben The Prettiest Boy is Ridiculously Pretty Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Errr, I think you mean the Council, not the Column. Unless there's a 4th or 6th Column.

    Gennenalyse Rueben on
  • Options
    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Scooter wrote: »
    They were "replaced" in that the red flags were switched with green ones. The costumes did change in that instead of helmets they have face masks, but that's about it. The vamps, wolves and robots changed even less. And the only background diff is that the 5th were German-based fascists, and the Council is Italian-based fascists.

    To be a nerd about it, the backstory for the 5th Column had the advantage of making fucking sense and actually having some sense of history and menace. This was the same group who tried to sabotage the U.S. before and during WW2. They're part of the reason there's a big statue of Atlas in Atlas Park.

    The Column, on the other hand, suffer from having to be associated with the utter logic-destroying lameness that is the Nictus Space Squid bullshit. So while the 5th Column plot arcs that explained how the Vampyri and the Warwolves were the results of separate sinister experiments, now they're both somehow the results of being face-fucked by evil alien calamari. And they added new Column enemies that look like luchadores.

    And Cryptic never bothered to give the Column any real motive for wanting to control the world. With the 5th Column, it makes sense, because, you know, they're Nazis. Take away that association and it behooves you to make even a tiny bit of effort to flesh out the remaining stuff.

    To be nerdier, here's the complete Council history:

    1. Arachnos forms in Italy, probably around the 1920s.
    2. The Council splits off from Arachnos, led by the Center, probably around 1930.
    3. The Council allies with the Nictus group of the Path of Shadow (or whatever its name is exactly) which goes back to the Roman period.
    4. Ridolfo Uzzano is merged with a Nictus and is set up to run the 5th Column, a subsidiary organization which gets a lot of support from Nazi Germany.
    5. The Axis loses WWII, and the 5th Column becomes a nation-less terrorist organization drawing recruits from whatever hardline racists and neo-nazis it can get.
    6. In late 2004 the Kheldians come to Earth and expose the Nictus. With no reason to hide anymore, the Center decides to take direct control of 5th Column resources. However, Requiem likes his power, and racists aren't generally the sort to get along to playing around with aliens, so there's a war before Center loyalists can take complete control.

    Also, Vamps aren't Nictus-related, you're probably thinking of the Galaxy. Some troops are implanted with Nictus fragments, when it goes right you get a Galaxy, when it goes wrong you get a Warwolf. This is consistent with what they had before, at the time they only referred to a Shadow Seed from the Path, which we now know is a Nictus artifact.

    Requiem was always an Italian fascist, it's just now he's taking orders from another Italian fascist. Their motives aren't really any different from German Nazis or from Arachnos.

    Scooter on
  • Options
    GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I think people object because Mussolini was such a ponce.

    GungHo on
  • Options
    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    And because they replaced a really cool villain (Requiem!) with a much less cool one (The Center? The hell?)

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • Options
    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    But they never replaced Requiem. He was still in the Council, if grudgingly.

    korodullin on
    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • Options
    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    And it also set up a hilarious relationship between him and the other Nictus chick.

    Scooter on
  • Options
    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I didn't get an email from Cryptic this morning about focus testing for the week. Did anyone who is in the beta get one?

    Lucascraft on
This discussion has been closed.