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Posts

  • SudsSuds Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I think that having to aim would make it so much more fun. You could miss and hit someone else etc.

    Suds on
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  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    It worked terribly in SWG.

    Glal on
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Suds wrote: »
    I think that having to aim would make it so much more fun. You could miss and hit someone else etc.


    MMOs have lag well beyond what you usually see in FPSes. Servers & connections handling thousands of people instead of maybe two dozen.


    I know there's been times in CoX when, either due to my router (which sucks) or the server I would've never ever hit anything if that was how hits were determined.

    Besides, RPGs are number-based more than twitch based. Making it all skill would take out one of the stats they can use to balance powers and give people a thing to buff themselves with.

    Scooter on
  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Tabula Rasa does a great job of making you feel like you were aiming while still keeping the traditional MMO mechanics that help eliminate the problems lag can cause. It made fights feel much more dynamic, even more so then in CoX.

    Accualt on
  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Accualt wrote: »
    Tabula Rasa does a great job of making you feel like you were aiming while still keeping the traditional MMO mechanics that help eliminate the problems lag can cause. It made fights feel much more dynamic, even more so then in CoX.

    I wouldn't mind if it uses the Rasa style, I'd prefer Mass Effect though.

    Cabezone on
  • Toxic PickleToxic Pickle Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Cabezone wrote: »
    Accualt wrote: »
    Tabula Rasa does a great job of making you feel like you were aiming while still keeping the traditional MMO mechanics that help eliminate the problems lag can cause. It made fights feel much more dynamic, even more so then in CoX.

    I wouldn't mind if it uses the Rasa style, I'd prefer Mass Effect though.

    Difference is that Mass Effect isn't a MMO... yeah I liked the system too, but that aiming system would quickly go to hell in an online environment with server and connection latency to contend with.

    Tabula Rasa did do a good job of making combat feel like aiming was important and all that. Too bad none of the rest of the game was any fun.

    Toxic Pickle on
  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Cabezone wrote: »
    Accualt wrote: »
    Tabula Rasa does a great job of making you feel like you were aiming while still keeping the traditional MMO mechanics that help eliminate the problems lag can cause. It made fights feel much more dynamic, even more so then in CoX.

    I wouldn't mind if it uses the Rasa style, I'd prefer Mass Effect though.

    Difference is that Mass Effect isn't a MMO... yeah I liked the system too, but that aiming system would quickly go to hell in an online environment with server and connection latency to contend with.

    Tabula Rasa did do a good job of making combat feel like aiming was important and all that. Too bad none of the rest of the game was any fun.

    A lot of you have never played Planetside I see. There is no reason a MMORPG can't have a FPS/3PS style interface.

    Cabezone on
  • Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Wasn't CoH supposed to have a combat system that let you target different areas of an enemies body?

    Macro9 on
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  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Macro9 wrote: »
    Wasn't CoH supposed to have a combat system that let you target different areas of an enemies body?

    The problem with CoH was they released their plans for it three full years before it went live. A ton of stuff got cut or changed in that time it happens with every game, especially MMORPGs. Champs is only a year or so out, barring any major delays.

    Cabezone on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Glal wrote: »
    It worked terribly in SWG.

    That's because the aiming system in SWG taps into the User Interface code to determine whether or not you are targeting someone, the same code that determines if you target someone when you click on the screen. Since it wasn't designed for combat you can't even lead your shots.

    TR demonstrates that FPS targeting can be done right. Even though it's not true targeting, it's as good as you can get in an MMO.

    Jasconius on
  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    SWG was never designed from the start to be a FPS/MMO hybrid. what do you expect

    Wren on
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    TF2 - Wren BF3: Wren-fu
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Yeah, what he said

    Planetside is not a myth people. Real time MMO combat was possible years ago, and I at least want to see more of it

    Zzulu on
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  • DartboyDartboy Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Planetside also has far lower zone population caps and 0 NPCs to handle. FPS can be done in an MMO, but it requires a substantially different approach.

    Dartboy on
  • Oddjob187Oddjob187 Pew TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Dartboy wrote: »
    Planetside also has far lower zone population caps and 0 NPCs to handle. FPS can be done in an MMO, but it requires a substantially different approach.

    I think giant Mechs, bullets, lasers and carpet bombing aircraft makes up for the lack of NPC's.

    Oddjob187 on
  • encloserencloser Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Glal wrote: »
    Before Stamina there's no way in hell I could afford to both run the toggles and actually have an attack/hold chain going. At least, not for terribly long.

    Plus, /rad's toggles turned out to be rather annoying to play in groups. The need to apply multiple debuffs with long animations plus the (what feels like a) 5 seconds warm-up before the debuff actually becomes visible enough to other players meant the toggle tended to be dead by the time I was done. Give me /dark's single uberdebuff any time of day.

    I never played a controller very much. But I loved the Rad debuffs on my Rad/Dark Defender, who played a bit like a controller. He AOE solo-grinded pretty easily. You do need to use a bunch of End Reducers in the toggles, they were more important than any other enhancers until your end regen stabilized. And if you pop skittles like crazy it is even easier and faster (but doesn't that go for everyone). That was a pretty powerful solo character, but was hard as hell to play in most groups. "No I am not a healer! But I can help you do more damage if you don't kill my anchors."

    EDIT: This thread is making me want to resub to CoX...

    encloser on
    EVE: Zane Rayez; CoX: Encloser;
    TF2/ETQW: [e]Encloser;
    encloser.png
  • EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Well PlanetSide was quite a while ago now. If anything, it'd be easier with more powerful servers and such that they have available now.

    Enig on
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    Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    encloser wrote: »
    EDIT: This thread is making me want to resub to CoX...

    You know what must be done.

    One of us can even send you a reactivation code that gives you 45 days for the price of 30 as long as you've been unsubbed for 90days or more. You just have to PM us your e-mail.

    Accualt on
  • encloserencloser Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Accualt wrote: »
    You know what must be done.

    Offtopic: My game time at the moment is mostly spent on internet spaceships (EVE). I love the skill system and territory control of the game. If I can't log in for a week I know my character is still progressing.

    encloser on
    EVE: Zane Rayez; CoX: Encloser;
    TF2/ETQW: [e]Encloser;
    encloser.png
  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Some of the topics on the official forum are just... special

    Like the one that says healers shouldn't be in the game because all they do is leech and cause bad strategy. No im not joking:

    http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=2391

    That said I always wanted to play coh but never got around to it , this should be fun

    EspantaPajaro on
  • SpongeCakeSpongeCake Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Some of the topics on the official forum are just... special

    Like the one that says healers shouldn't be in the game because all they do is leech and cause bad strategy. No im not joking:

    http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=2391

    That said I always wanted to play coh but never got around to it , this should be fun

    That's a pretty common opinion - if a little more extreme than usual - in CoX to be honest. The anti-healer backlash in CoX is really pretty interesting.

    SpongeCake on
  • Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Heals aren't very useful in CoX when power sets like Empathy have fuckawesome buffs. Plus a lot of so called healers in CoX just put their auras on auto and don't actually take an active roll in buffing allies and debuffing enemies. I don't know any PAers like that, but a lot of PuGers are.

    Macro9 on
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  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    If there's an anti-healer sentiment, it probably goes back to the days of when everyone came from some MMO that required healers, and all of the perfectly good team support players out there would get passed over or kicked from teams in search of the mythical "CoH healer".

    Scooter on
  • A-PuckA-Puck Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Scooter wrote: »
    If there's an anti-healer sentiment, it probably goes back to the days of when everyone came from some MMO that required healers, and all of the perfectly good team support players out there would get passed over or kicked from teams in search of the mythical "CoH healer".

    My first 50 was a kin/rad defender. I used to regularly get kicked out of teams because I wasn't a healer. Teams full of tanks and scrappers would kick a Kin because I wasn't an empath. There was a real and prevalent view that the only good defender was an empath, and that empaths shouldn't use their end for anything except healing.

    Long time defender players are still a little twitchy about the subject.

    A-Puck on
    Soon... soon I will install you, my precious.
  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Maybe im just used to playing healers and such but to have none is a bit extreme , what would you do in team pvp ? Spam potions like in Diablo? Either way its just a really ...odd way to look at things. That said im not one to talk , after my stint in wow as a holy priest I swore off healing classes , too much anger I will leave it to calmer people.

    EspantaPajaro on
  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Debuff your opponents so they don't do significant amount of damage to you, then proceed to kick their ass. CoX is all about buffs/debuffs, and even the odd healing power tends to be AoE rather than whack-a-rat.

    Heck, Dark Miasma's heal works by debuffing the enemy targetted, then healing everyone around you for 30% of your health. Yes please.

    Glal on
  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    To be fair, at early levels, healing seems to be more useful than debuffs. That changes fairly quickly, though healing always has a place in CoX.

    Accualt on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    It is very different, compared to a lot of MMOs. CoX also gives you inspirations, which are basically potions, except that they drop all the damn time and can be bought cheaply from vendors. They heal you/give you endurance, but also buff defense, resistance, accuracy, etc. And you can eat a whole bunch of them at once.

    Edit: healing's only more useful than debuffs because healing is what you've got. The heal powers come pretty early in all the trees that have them, as opposed to debuffs, where the best is often saved for last.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Glal wrote: »
    Debuff your opponents so they don't do significant amount of damage to you, then proceed to kick their ass. CoX is all about buffs/debuffs, and even the odd healing power tends to be AoE rather than whack-a-rat.

    Heck, Dark Miasma's heal works by debuffing the enemy targetted, then healing everyone around you for 30% of your health. Yes please.

    Which was kinda awesome. I fell in with a group doing Deathsurge (?) and I was dashing in to get heals on the melee and throwing up debuffs.

    Thomamelas on
  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    http://www.champions-online.com/worlds/stronghold

    Update on the website , the stronghold prison , looks pretty flippin cool . Hope fully theres some full scale riot to stop when we get there.

    EspantaPajaro on
  • HayasaHayasa Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I just had a look at the Screenshots on the website, and yeah thats a reskinned CoX. I don't know that I could cope with a billion caves missions again.

    I'd love to see some more creative areas to fight in, like say the winding streets of some European city, maybe an enormous library....just please give us maps at least on a level with WoW dungeons, with a bit of creativity and design involved. Mildly variant generic scenery will kill the game so quickly for me.

    Hayasa on
  • Dr. FaceDr. Face King of Pants Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    http://www.champions-online.com/worlds/stronghold

    Update on the website , the stronghold prison , looks pretty flippin cool . Hope fully theres some full scale riot to stop when we get there.

    The first shot of the mesa/desert gives me hope for a more interesting, diverse and hopefully useful overworld then CoX. CoX has a couple overworld zones that are interesting in and of themselves, but most are just different cityscapes in various states of repair or forests AND you almost never have a reason to use them for more then RP and costume contests. This looks hot.

    Dr. Face on
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  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Having some healing in the game is fine, just as there is in COX, but the 'holy trinity' of tank/heal/DPS is an awful, terribly boring game design. COX, Eve, and probably more have successfully avoided that, to their great benefit.

    I'm hoping the next 'MMO design standard' to get shot down by someone (maybe Champions?) is the 'NPCs have lame AI/NPCs can only see 3ft away/who wants to pull?' mechanic. I was showing COX to some friends, and that was the deal-breaker for them. Needless to say, I enjoy COX ambushes more than other fights :P

    Anyway, I'm hoping Champions still keeps the powers as the core of the character. I don't want my fire-blaster character having to punch people before he can blast them.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • MorithainMorithain Registered User
    edited March 2008
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Having some healing in the game is fine, just as there is in COX, but the 'holy trinity' of tank/heal/DPS is an awful, terribly boring game design. COX, Eve, and probably more have successfully avoided that, to their great benefit.

    I'm hoping the next 'MMO design standard' to get shot down by someone (maybe Champions?) is the 'NPCs have lame AI/NPCs can only see 3ft away/who wants to pull?' mechanic. I was showing COX to some friends, and that was the deal-breaker for them. Needless to say, I enjoy COX ambushes more than other fights :P

    Anyway, I'm hoping Champions still keeps the powers as the core of the character. I don't want my fire-blaster character having to punch people before he can blast them.

    Exactly, if Cryptic can pull off the idea that you don't need the 123 setup of Tank/Healer/DPS to accomplish anything at all anywhere, I will cry tears of joy. It really would allow people to play the game however they wanted, which is very exciting.

    Morithain on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Morithain wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Having some healing in the game is fine, just as there is in COX, but the 'holy trinity' of tank/heal/DPS is an awful, terribly boring game design. COX, Eve, and probably more have successfully avoided that, to their great benefit.

    I'm hoping the next 'MMO design standard' to get shot down by someone (maybe Champions?) is the 'NPCs have lame AI/NPCs can only see 3ft away/who wants to pull?' mechanic. I was showing COX to some friends, and that was the deal-breaker for them. Needless to say, I enjoy COX ambushes more than other fights :P

    Anyway, I'm hoping Champions still keeps the powers as the core of the character. I don't want my fire-blaster character having to punch people before he can blast them.

    Exactly, if Cryptic can pull off the idea that you don't need the 123 setup of Tank/Healer/DPS to accomplish anything at all anywhere, I will cry tears of joy. It really would allow people to play the game however they wanted, which is very exciting.

    Frankly, thats something that I pretty much think is a given. Thats one of the great strengths of CoX. No class is required for anything. You do require a certain mix of damage and damage mitigation (debuffs, buffs, controls, aggro management, etc), but there are multiple ways to get there.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
  • Paradox ControlParadox Control Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    http://www.champions-online.com/worlds/stronghold

    Update on the website , the stronghold prison , looks pretty flippin cool . Hope fully theres some full scale riot to stop when we get there.
    man, that sounds 100x more interesting then most of the CoX content. I can't wait to hear about more of there zone ideas.
    Hayasa wrote: »
    I just had a look at the Screenshots on the website, and yeah thats a reskinned CoX. I don't know that I could cope with a billion caves missions again.

    I'd love to see some more creative areas to fight in, like say the winding streets of some European city, maybe an enormous library....just please give us maps at least on a level with WoW dungeons, with a bit of creativity and design involved. Mildly variant generic scenery will kill the game so quickly for me.

    While I agree with you to an extent, I can't see this "reskinned CoX" at all. The character models hardly look like any of the CoX models. Not to mention, the most we see of the citys at all is the randome crates, or 1/5 of a side of a building. I'd say its a little early to call this a "reskinned CoX"

    Paradox Control on
    \
  • A3gisA3gis Registered User
    edited March 2008
    I hope they add some form of giant monster more along the lines of the big robot in the gantry in the Burkholder's Bane mission in CoH.

    The "giant" monsters in CoX that you fight just aren't big enough to my mind. And what about knock-on effects of taking these guys down? Smashing the fusion powered robot in the middle of a city and it doesn't meltdown? Come on! Give us a use for superstrength (hurling the robot's core into orbit)! Forceshields to contain the explosion, rad powers to siphon the effects *something* more in keeping with comics.

    A3gis on
  • Toxic PickleToxic Pickle Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Having some healing in the game is fine, just as there is in COX, but the 'holy trinity' of tank/heal/DPS is an awful, terribly boring game design. COX, Eve, and probably more have successfully avoided that, to their great benefit.

    I've always thought of it as more of a quadrinity ( O_o ) of Tank/Heals/DPS/CC, and I don't think that CoX entirely gets away from this formula, just that it allows parties multiple ways to achieve it (as stated previous to my post). It does allow teams to forego the tank at least in favor of mass CC and damage mitigation, so there is a uniqueness to it, but I would say it stretches the mold rather than outright shattering it.

    Speaking of the mold (or quadrinity if you will), don't expect this model to go away any time soon as D&D 4th Edition appears to be embracing it whole-heartedly. An excerpt:

    The fighters and paladins are the group's defenders, who can use a variety of powers and skills to attract the attention of monsters away from other players. In the case of the paladin, he or she can call out enemy monsters for individual duels. The fighter is a bit more of an equal opportunity player, forcing nearby monsters to suffer a disadvantage when attacking other players.

    Can you say Dungeons of Dragoncraft? I knew you could.

    Toxic Pickle on
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Having some healing in the game is fine, just as there is in COX, but the 'holy trinity' of tank/heal/DPS is an awful, terribly boring game design. COX, Eve, and probably more have successfully avoided that, to their great benefit.

    I've always thought of it as more of a quadrinity ( O_o ) of Tank/Heals/DPS/CC, and I don't think that CoX entirely gets away from this formula, just that it allows parties multiple ways to achieve it (as stated previous to my post). It does allow teams to forego the tank at least in favor of mass CC and damage mitigation, so there is a uniqueness to it, but I would say it stretches the mold rather than outright shattering it.

    Speaking of the mold (or quadrinity if you will), don't expect this model to go away any time soon as D&D 4th Edition appears to be embracing it whole-heartedly. An excerpt:

    The fighters and paladins are the group's defenders, who can use a variety of powers and skills to attract the attention of monsters away from other players. In the case of the paladin, he or she can call out enemy monsters for individual duels. The fighter is a bit more of an equal opportunity player, forcing nearby monsters to suffer a disadvantage when attacking other players.

    Can you say Dungeons of Dragoncraft? I knew you could.

    O_o

    lowlylowlycook on
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    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
  • A-PuckA-Puck Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Having some healing in the game is fine, just as there is in COX, but the 'holy trinity' of tank/heal/DPS is an awful, terribly boring game design. COX, Eve, and probably more have successfully avoided that, to their great benefit.

    I've always thought of it as more of a quadrinity ( O_o ) of Tank/Heals/DPS/CC, and I don't think that CoX entirely gets away from this formula, just that it allows parties multiple ways to achieve it (as stated previous to my post). It does allow teams to forego the tank at least in favor of mass CC and damage mitigation, so there is a uniqueness to it, but I would say it stretches the mold rather than outright shattering it.

    Speaking of the mold (or quadrinity if you will), don't expect this model to go away any time soon as D&D 4th Edition appears to be embracing it whole-heartedly. An excerpt:

    The fighters and paladins are the group's defenders, who can use a variety of powers and skills to attract the attention of monsters away from other players. In the case of the paladin, he or she can call out enemy monsters for individual duels. The fighter is a bit more of an equal opportunity player, forcing nearby monsters to suffer a disadvantage when attacking other players.

    Can you say Dungeons of Dragoncraft? I knew you could.

    I've been playing DnD since, oh 81? 82? Something like that. It has ALWAYS been that a balanced party needs a tank, a healer, a nuker, and a skill/stealth monkey. In 4th e they are just codifying it. I don't see how you can call out DnD for copying someone who based the vast majority of their system on DnD.

    A-Puck on
    Soon... soon I will install you, my precious.
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User
    edited March 2008
    Corvus wrote: »
    Frankly, thats something that I pretty much think is a given. Thats one of the great strengths of CoX. No class is required for anything. You do require a certain mix of damage and damage mitigation (debuffs, buffs, controls, aggro management, etc), but there are multiple ways to get there.
    One of the main reasons that this is possible in CoH, though, is that the game is just incredibly easy.

    I'm no fan of the holy trinity class design. Especially in the sense that it leads to every 100 players being composed of 90 DPS players, 5 tanks, and 5 healers. But it's also nice to see significant class roles and dynamic missions that, you know, sometimes you just need a tank.

    But it needs to be juggled with having 5 blaster types, and being able to have a go at a mission via fantastic firepower, instead of, say, balance, or tank/healer-heavy compositions.

    s3rial one on
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