Jeph Loeb: Destoryer of Marvel Universe?!?

silkypea

So I am just fucking sick of it. He was with DC for a long time and I wish he would have fucking stayed there. It is really irritating that he is ruining shit for Marvel so much. Ahh I just hate him so. His Ultimates 3 is shit, Hulk is shit, his Wolverine was shit. I am a real big fan of the Ultimate Universe and it hasn't looked good for awhile but with Ultimatum he will destroy it. I fucking hate Jeph Loeb. Who is with me?

Bloods End

I don't think he can destroy an entire universe.

Unless maybe he freaks out and murders everyone working at Marvel. That could put a damper on things.

Wildcat

'Destoryer'? To be fair to the man, he is trying to tell a story, so I wouldn't say he's trying to de-story the MU, quite the opposite.

jkylefulton

I'm not sure his work is really relevant to the MU at large. His Wolverine arc has been ignored, his Ultimates arc (and Ultimate Power) will probably be ignored, and I assume his Hulk arc will be the same (I don't plan on picking it up).

Now, with that said, someone out there must be buying his books, so kudos to them and kudos to him. There's so much good stuff for everyone being published right now. If you don't like Loeb, try Slott, or Brubaker, or Fraction, or Gage, or....you get the idea. It's a great time to be a comic fan.

KVW

Actually, Im pretty sure Ultimatum is supposed to destroy it or is at least being hyped upa s the end of it. Loeb might not be destroying the 616 universe, but he's fucking hte Ultimate one over pretty hard. Ultimate Power, "Ultimates", Ultimatum and he's going to shit over UFF and UXM eventually in tie ins or build up to Ultimatum.

To be fair, he sucked at DC as well. I believe Superman Batman was his last title and it sold well, but it features things like Batman punching Darkseid and giant half superman, half batman robot space rockets among other nonsense.

MikeMcSomething

I really liked Ultimates, I grabbed Ultimates 3 #1 and I thought the art was a drastic departure but I liked the issue. Obviously there is no accounting for taste but was there some enormous continuity problem he created that I'm not seeing or something?

Also - 1/2 superman/batman space rockets in supergirl? Where?

jkylefulton

First arc of SUPERMAN/BATMAN, Captain Atom pilots a giant Composite Superman robot into a comet of kryptonite (or something like that). Composite Superman is the half-Superman/half-Batman LoSH villain from the 60s. I think he got his powers when a lightning bolt hit his action figure collection.

No, I'm not kidding.

MikeMcSomething

Ahh, I thought Loeb only wrote the Supergirl arc. I have actually read quite a bit of his stuff and I like his work, even though alot of people here seem to think he is pretty terrible - I was just trying to figure out what he does that is so much worse than anyone else out there.

Quick comedy edit: The title for a thread designed to flame a writer has misspelled the word ''destroyer''

Garlic Bread

Loeb's good with Tim Sale

and Hush was all right

everything else I've read from him is crap

MikeMcSomething

Keith wrote: »

Loeb's good with Tim Sale

and Hush was all right

everything else I've read from him is crap

This is what I'm trying to understand - what does he do in 'everything else' that is so much worse than any other writer? Is there maybe an article that goes into it that you could point me to?

Like, when people say ''For how many covers he gets a month, Mike Turner is a really shitty artist" and then they point to a detailed breakdown of some of his covers. Obviously it's still taste, but at least there is some sort of effort put into why the person feels that way. I see alot of ''well yeah, or you could just BE SHITTY LIKE JEPH" and then nobody ever seems to go much more in depth than that.

Balefuego

The Fallen Son issues ranged from good to great.

It's a bit soon to tell on Hulk, its nowhere near as bad as Wolverine though.

Ultimates is slowly getting better, but yes I'm pretty worried about what Ultimatum is going to do.

Having a thread to talk about how much he sucks seems a bit extreme though.

MikeMcSomething

This thread could be really interesting if someone put forth some sort of information that was superior to "I THINK HE SUX EXCEPT THIS ARC WAS OK AND THIS ONE WAS GOOD"

jkylefulton

I'm not sure that there is any sort of objective metric in which you could say Loeb does or does not suck.

wwtMask

Long Halloween was great, Hulk is all right so far, and Ultimate Power 7-9 were interesting (if sometimes nonsensical). Ultimates 3 is the only thing I've read by him that felt flat.

MikeMcSomething

jkylefulton wrote: »

I'm not sure that there is any sort of objective metric in which you could say Loeb does or does not suck.

There isn't any perfect system, but someone could at least try to do something other than a half-assed complaint. WeeklyCrisis has a link to an article titled "Michael Turner can't draw" - it is a good example of what I am talking about.

bobgorila

Flat is putting it lightly.

Munch

MikeMcSomething wrote: »

This thread could be really interesting if someone put forth some sort of information that was superior to "I THINK HE SUX EXCEPT THIS ARC WAS OK AND THIS ONE WAS GOOD"

Hey, have you read that one story by Jeph Loeb, where [major character] and [major character] get together and fight [the entire rogue's gallery] of [major character]? Oh man, and it's drawn by [superstar artist]! It's a murder mystery where [someone close to the major character] is killed, and nobody knows who it could be! But then in the last issue, you find out it was actually [character that was created solely for the series OR character that was seemingly killed OR both]! Man, it was so awesome. I really recommend it.

Lux

I didn't mind the composite Superman/Batman. I thought it was supposed to be a light, sort of absurd arc.

Fencingsax

Lux wrote: »

I didn't mind the composite Superman/Batman. I thought it was supposed to be a light, sort of absurd arc.

Wasn't that the same arc that introduced the 13 year old Toyman?

MikeMcSomething

Munch wrote: »

MikeMcSomething wrote: »

This thread could be really interesting if someone put forth some sort of information that was superior to "I THINK HE SUX EXCEPT THIS ARC WAS OK AND THIS ONE WAS GOOD"

Hey, have you read that one story by Jeph Loeb, where [major character] and [major character] get together and fight [the entire rogue's gallery] of [major character]? Oh man, and it's drawn by [superstar artist]! It's a murder mystery where [someone close to the major character] is killed, and nobody knows who it could be! But then in the last issue, you find out it was actually [character that was created solely for the series OR character that was seemingly killed OR both]! Man, it was so awesome. I really recommend it.

This is pretty damn funny

Blackjack

Munch wrote: »

MikeMcSomething wrote: »

This thread could be really interesting if someone put forth some sort of information that was superior to "I THINK HE SUX EXCEPT THIS ARC WAS OK AND THIS ONE WAS GOOD"

Hey, have you read that one story by Jeph Loeb, where [major character] and [major character] get together and fight [the entire rogue's gallery] of [major character]? Oh man, and it's drawn by [superstar artist]! It's a murder mystery where [someone close to the major character] is killed, and nobody knows who it could be! But then in the last issue, you find out it was actually [character that was created solely for the series OR character that was seemingly killed OR both]! Man, it was so awesome. I really recommend it.

Oh, madlibs! Let me try!

Hey, have you read that one story by Jeph Loeb, where Squirrel Girl and Batman get together and fight the entire rogue's gallery of Superman? Oh man, and it's drawn by Bagley! It's a murder mystery where Monkey Joe is killed, and nobody knows who it could be! But then in the last issue, you find out it was actually Freedom Ring and Trickster! Man, it was so awesome. I really recommend it.

...I may actually read that.

Garlic Bread

Munch's post is true, though

I mean, Hush was a "mystery" but there was absolutely no way of figuring out who the culprit was before they were revealed.

It's not something exclusive to Loeb, though. Identity Crisis was the same way, and so is Death of the New Gods.

Sars_Boy

It's not funny anymore.

Jeph Loeb is fucking awful.

Why are his books selling so much it's making my head hurt.

Blackjack

Keith wrote: »

Munch's post is true, though

I mean, Hush was a "mystery" but there was absolutely no way of figuring out who the culprit was before they were revealed.

It's not something exclusive to Loeb, though. Identity Crisis was the same way, and so is Death of the New Gods.

Oh, yeah, I wasn't insinuating that he was wrong.

I just like mad libs.

MikeMcSomething

I think saying it's drawn by [superstar artist] is kind of a silly jab to make at someone but it was still comical.

I can't tell if Sars_Boy is being sarcastic or not.

Sars_Boy

I'm not. and munch is spot on about the artist

in fact I was reading this earlier today, there's quite a debate in the comments

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/02/20/thoughts-on-jeph-loeb-and-his-artists/

wwtMask

I guess no one here read Fallen Son then. Clearly this is an example of how Loeb is a hack and is only getting by on his name recognition while writing the same story over and over again. :roll:

Munch

Here's why I hate Loeb. He's set up to succeed before he even puts pen to paper. He gets handed a big name character, a big name artist, and utilizes every iconic trait of the character he can. He also supposedly fills his comics with a bunch of inane shit that makes no sense, but is fun to draw, and will net the artist a huge amount of money when they sell the original art.

You could have given Fallen Son, Ultimates, Hush, Hulk, or Superman/Batman to Bruce fucking Jones and they still would have sold well. Because all-star artists, and big name characters springing out of huge influential events will sell even if the writer's borderline retarded.

smokmnky

I think the problem I have with Loeb on Ultimates is that none of the characters act and speak as they were developed by Millar. The tone is just completely wrong. For one he seems to have completely turned Cap into this overly cliche "grandfather" type character that is always yelling about people when they curse. He's just made him awful.

Zeromus

Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Haunted Knight, Hush, Spider-Man: Blue, and Daredevil: Yellow were some of the books that first got me into comics.

But yeah, he's been pumping out complete shit recently.

MikeMcSomething

Munch wrote: »

Here's why I hate Loeb. He's set up to succeed before he even puts pen to paper. He gets handed a big name character, a big name artist, and utilizes every iconic trait of the character he can. He also supposedly fills his comics with a bunch of inane shit that makes no sense, but is fun to draw, and will net the artist a huge amount of money when they sell the original art.

You could have given Fallen Son, Ultimates, Hush, Hulk, or Superman/Batman to Bruce fucking Jones and they still would have sold well. Because all-star artists, and big name characters springing out of huge influential events will sell even if the writer's borderline retarded.

I can see where you are coming from, but it seems to me like you could cite problems with Spielberg for making a big-budget epic movie starring 5 oscar winners for the same reasons (w/ the exception of the 'inane shit' one - could you point some out that is unique to loeb?)

Garlic Bread

MikeMcSomething wrote: »

Keith wrote: »

Loeb's good with Tim Sale

and Hush was all right

everything else I've read from him is crap

This is what I'm trying to understand - what does he do in 'everything else' that is so much worse than any other writer? Is there maybe an article that goes into it that you could point me to?

For his stories with Tim Sale, I'd say it's because Sale is a "story" artist. As that article Sars_Boy linked to points out, he isn't great for action scenes. He's great at storytelling and putting emotion into pictures. So Loeb had to write characters instead of glorified fight scenes for those stories.

Loeb's a great writer, no doubt about it. It's just that he seems to live off of his name instead of his talent now.

Raynaga

Uh....Superman for all Seasons was pretty good, I thought.

/cringes

silkypea

My point of this thread was to say for years he talked about how great DC was. I think for the most part his work with DC was great. Hush's conclusion was weak. Superman/Batman got weak but it was ok. I'm saying I think he seriously decided to work for Marvel with the point of doing it half ass. I am beginning to think that he just decided "Alright how much can I fuck this up. Ok I got it take an amazing series and make it completely fucking terrible." I'm beginning to think this was the actually intent.

silkypea

also I don't think an entire thread is to much. I think it is necessary.

Zeromus

Was it truly the actually intent?

JoeUser

Has he been hanging out with Fred Hembeck?

Balefuego

silkypea wrote: »

My point of this thread was to say for years he talked about how great DC was. I think for the most part his work with DC was great. Hush's conclusion was weak. Superman/Batman got weak but it was ok. I'm saying I think he seriously decided to work for Marvel with the point of doing it half ass. I am beginning to think that he just decided "Alright how much can I fuck this up. Ok I got it take an amazing series and make it completely fucking terrible." I'm beginning to think this was the actually intent.

That is just ridiculous, you can't honestly be dumb enough to really think that.

The_Lightbringer

What really gets me is the little details, how they cant even get the small things right. Wasp not asian? Thor's hammer, 616 Scarlet Witch costume, Cap and Black Panther le sigh, how everyone is acting edgy dark and depressed, the YE OLDEN SHAKESPEAREAN SPEAK! Or how or why so many characters just fucking show up randomly with no explanation. Congrats Leob for ruining the Ultimates.

Nogs

The thor thing isn't all that bad though. I think it's supposed to be that he is more god than human now, because of what happened at the end of Ult. 2. I agree it isn't as cool, but I can understand it to an extent.

smokmnky

silkypea wrote: »

My point of this thread was to say for years he talked about how great DC was. I think for the most part his work with DC was great. Hush's conclusion was weak. Superman/Batman got weak but it was ok. I'm saying I think he seriously decided to work for Marvel with the point of doing it half ass. I am beginning to think that he just decided "Alright how much can I fuck this up. Ok I got it take an amazing series and make it completely fucking terrible." I'm beginning to think this was the actually intent.

So anyone now think that Silkypea is just like the ultimate troll? Because I think we've all been had.