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Final Fantasy XII and Dragon Quest VIII: battle systems?

ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
edited February 2008 in Games and Technology
Quick question for anyone who can help me out: which of these two games has the better battle system? I picked up both on the cheap recently and am deliberating as to which to play first. I've decided that I'm not that bothered, so I'd rather play the game with the worst battle system first; it's awful going from a quick intuitive system to a more cumbersome one.

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Posts

  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Well DQ8 has a menu based turn based party based battle system like most old JRPGs. F12 has a stand still and let your gambit system do everything while you read a book action-ish battle system. Mind you I loved F12, but really you just set up gambits then run around.

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  • Rabid EsperRabid Esper Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    FF12 Battle system is much nicer, really. The gambits can be used to easily take care of any normal enemies but then when you encounter a boss or harder enemy you'll have to actually take part. It makes for a pretty awesome mix.

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  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    As the comic says, FF12 masterbates while you watch. I have watched a friend play WoW and FF12 at the same time with no difficulty.

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  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Surely that means I can masturbate while I watch? Hm, not sure which to play first then. Probably DQ; that way after all the clicking's done, I'll enjoy the relaxation of FFXII pressing buttons for me.

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  • Baka_ShadeBaka_Shade Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    DQ8 will certainly have the more intuitive battle system, as there's basically nothing new about it whatsoever. FF12, as people have said, basically does a lot of the work for you, though you do have to set your characters up to do it (not difficult to do).

    ...damn, when I word it like that, it makes both sound shitty. XD

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  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    DQ8 has a very traditional turn based battle system that's about as bare bones as it gets, but to its credit, it's done well. Final Fantasy XII has a weird MMORPG-esque system where you program characters using a simple programming language to do tasks automatically. It's pretty hard to compare the two as they're so drastically different.

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  • useless4useless4 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I have never played Final Fantasy (Outside of VII and III on the DS) but where the hell is the fun in watching something happen with just general "guidelines" you gave the characters?

    Is the next FF going to have a similar system?

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  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    useless4 wrote: »
    I have never played Final Fantasy (Outside of VII and III on the DS) but where the hell is the fun in watching something happen with just general "guidelines" you gave the characters?

    They're not general. The orders are very exact. So exact, in fact, that there's no way to account for every situation.

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  • Baka_ShadeBaka_Shade Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Pata wrote: »
    useless4 wrote: »
    I have never played Final Fantasy (Outside of VII and III on the DS) but where the hell is the fun in watching something happen with just general "guidelines" you gave the characters?

    They're not general. The orders are very exact. So exact, in fact, that there's no way to account for every situation.

    Though, by the end of the game, I was able to get Penelo, my "black mage" character (I never really went the "make everyone good at everything" route), a full array of "if the enemy is weak against this element, use the best version of that spell on them", along with a command to use Syphon if she went below a certain % MP. I never actually used that setup, though, as I generally had her as my controlled character.

    And I've got to use the most common argument for FF12's system, that being you don't have to use gambits at all. Like I mentioned with the character building, the game gives you the option to make it much easier for yourself than many people seem to enjoy, but you don't have to take that option. For tanking characters, though, when you were basically going to cast some buffing spells on them and have them repeatedly attack anyway, I found the gambit system to be a nice bit of streamlining.

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  • Rabid EsperRabid Esper Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I never really used black magic in FF12, was just a waste of time and mana. Except a lot of Flare spam on a few harder bosses (with the thing that makes it go three times or something...). All of my characters used white magic though; Healing Brigade away!

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  • Shooter McgavinShooter Mcgavin Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Dragon Quest 8 is about as traditional as you can get. In fact, it would be entirely possible to remake the game for NES and have all of the gameplay intact. It's a graphical upheaval of a classic game.

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  • MinionOfCthulhuMinionOfCthulhu Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    The battle system for DQ8 is slow. The whole game feels sluggish. I never could finish it. :(

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  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Dragon quest VIII is busy work
    attack attack attack attack
    that's fukken boring.

    in FF12 you're are ACTUALLY a strategist. Gambits automate the "select attack" boringness and let you really direct the ebb and flow of the combat. I'm tired of battles that happen outside the world, too, I like it how 1) FF12 got rid of random fights and also you fight in the "normal" map.

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  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Yes. It made going back to the older games so hard.

    Malkor on
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  • CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I think of FFXII's battle system as a natural evolution and innovation that JRPGs generally haven't seen in a long time. It's very refreshing, simple, fast and relaxing, while still being as deep as you want it to be. It's highly customizable, and I personally think the license board is fantastic (although it's stupid that you can't see beyond one tile). You can have any character perform any role that you want, and the whole spell and equipment system reminds me of D&D, which is always a plus.

    Really, think of DQ8 as a refinement of the classic battle system, with elements that can be considered archaic by today's standards, while FFXII basically tries to eliminate everything tedious and frustrating that is typically associated with JRPG combat. Many people enjoy the traditional systems, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I personally think XII's battle system is a breath of fresh air that other developers should start to mimic. XII is not without its flaws, but the battle system is so good that I actually value the gameplay as much as the story; the last time that happened with a JRPG was in Chrono Trigger. I haven't actually finished it yet, but it's on the fast track to becoming my favorite Final Fantasy.

    I'm looking forward to Lost Odyssey at the end of the month, but goddamn it's going to be tough going back to that battle system.

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  • JeanJean Heartbroken papa bear Gatineau, QuébecRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I loved FF12's gambit system, that,s easilly the best aspect of the game. It solves brillantly the repetitivity problem that comes with your standard menu based system.

    The story is bare bones tough and the game is too long for it's own good.

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  • Baroque And RollBaroque And Roll Every spark of friendship and love Will die without a homeRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Jean wrote: »
    The story is bare bones tough and the game is too long for it's own good.

    Lies and half truths. The story for FFXII is a bit more difficult to follow than the past games, but is every bit as good imo. If you don't do any hunts/sidequests/extra stuff, the game can be finished quite quickly. But the fun of the game is doing the hunts and challenging yourself to go the extra mile. I'm 80 hours in as of today, and I show no signs of slowing down. I can't get the Zodiac Spear or the Tournesol because of some idiot mistakes I made earlier in the game, but that's not stopping me. I just got the Ragnarok. I'm getting all of the Espers, considering they're not all tied into the story, etc. The extras make the game a long, fantastic experience.

    DQVIII bored the hell out of me, honestly. As someone above me said, the battle system seems sluggish.

    imho, play DQVIII first and then savor FFXII later.

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  • Shooter McgavinShooter Mcgavin Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    The battle system in DQ is what it is, but it takes a while to actually ramp up and become really interesting. For me, the first 10 hours were nearly almost entirely attack-attack-attack, with maybe an occasional psyche-up. Once you start to get further into the game, battle options really start opening up. There actually is a nice bit of strategy involved, and it makes the game way fun because the battles are usually over pretty quick.

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  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    The battle system in DQ is what it is, but it takes a while to actually ramp up and become really interesting. For me, the first 10 hours were nearly almost entirely attack-attack-attack, with maybe an occasional psyche-up. Once you start to get further into the game, battle options really start opening up. There actually is a nice bit of strategy involved, and it makes the game way fun because the battles are usually over pretty quick.

    What I enjoyed about DQVIII is that battles are actually pretty tough, and you have to think them through. It's also very basic, but I found that refreshing with the slew of JRPGs using really weird, clunky mechanics.

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  • Shooter McgavinShooter Mcgavin Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    The battle system in DQ is what it is, but it takes a while to actually ramp up and become really interesting. For me, the first 10 hours were nearly almost entirely attack-attack-attack, with maybe an occasional psyche-up. Once you start to get further into the game, battle options really start opening up. There actually is a nice bit of strategy involved, and it makes the game way fun because the battles are usually over pretty quick.

    What I enjoyed about DQVIII is that battles are actually pretty tough, and you have to think them through. It's also very basic, but I found that refreshing with the slew of JRPGs using really weird, clunky mechanics.

    Same here. I picked DQ8 up a couple weeks ago on a whim, and I love it. It's just simple, JRPG bliss. It reminds me of the RPGs I used to play as a kid on the NES/SNES.

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  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    As the comic says, FF12 masterbates while you watch. I have watched a friend play WoW and FF12 at the same time with no difficulty.

    Erm, not to nitpick but I've played WoW and various DS games at the same time. Neither FF12 nor WoW require vast amounts of concentration in many scenarios. :P

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  • CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Jean wrote: »
    The story is bare bones tough and the game is too long for it's own good.

    Lies and half truths. The story for FFXII is a bit more difficult to follow than the past games, but is every bit as good imo.

    Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't say it's barebones in any sense of the word, it's just more down to earth and more concerned with political conflict than the lifestream, giant mutant meteors, the power of love, time travel or your father being a gigantic monster for no reason. Much like the gameplay, I find the story to be very refreshing; granted, I haven't finished the game yet, but the world is probably the most fleshed out in the series' history. There's tons of lore in there, almost rivaling something like Elder Scrolls or Mass Effect in sheer volume. It's pretty awesome, and it is the first time in a decade that a Final Fantasy story has actually made a lick of fucking sense.

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  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Dragon quest VIII is busy work
    attack attack attack attack
    that's fukken boring.

    What?

    DQ8 is more like "attack, heal, buff, debuff, tension, OH CRAP HEAL HEAL whew, magic, buff..."
    Cherrn wrote: »
    It's pretty awesome, and it is the first time in a decade that a Final Fantasy story has actually made a lick of fucking sense.

    Every Final Fantasy story has made sense. They're internally consistent and follow the rules of the world they make. Just cause they aren't the same rules as our world dosn't mean that they don't make sense.

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  • ItalaxItalax Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Pata wrote: »
    Dragon quest VIII is busy work
    attack attack attack attack
    that's fukken boring.

    What?

    DQ8 is more like "attack, heal, buff, debuff, tension, OH CRAP HEAL HEAL whew, magic, buff..."
    Cherrn wrote: »
    It's pretty awesome, and it is the first time in a decade that a Final Fantasy story has actually made a lick of fucking sense.

    Every Final Fantasy story has made sense. They're internally consistent and follow the rules of the world they make. Just cause they aren't the same rules as our world dosn't mean that they don't make sense.

    FFT also does political conflict much better. Especially with the new translation.

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  • MC MysteryMC Mystery Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I'm really glad towards the end of this thread some DQVIII love started to happen. It's seriously my favorite RPG on the PS2. Sure the battle system is oldschool, but the character upgrade system and boss battles get pretty intense by the end of the game
    (only to be kinda let down by the final boss..)

    But hey. Earthbound did that too. Than again Earthbound also had an archaic Battle System at the time of it's release. Weird.

    Seriously though, out of the two DQVIII has the much better story and FFXII kind of felt like a less charming Skies of Arcadia (which despite sounding insulting, I think being compared to that game is a huge compliment, if we're being honest here). FFXII's battle system however, is absolute gaming bliss.

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  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I've started playing DQ8; is there no enemy health bar? :| This is going to make it really difficult to tell whether I'm losing a fight closely, or need to go away and do some leveling up.

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