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Baten Kaitos Love thread <3
elkatas
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We haven't one of these for a while.... :P
Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean
Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean was released in November 16, 2004 for Nintendo Gamecube. It was quite experimental RPG project that was developed by Monolith Soft (of Xenosaga fame, not to be confused with Monolith Productions), and published by Namco. Game had very old skool feeling with relatively simple plot, beautiful hand-drawn backgrounds, and music that was composed by Motoi Sakuraba, one of the most respected composers in the business.
Plot: Baten Kaitos takes place in an unnamed realm of flying islands. Humankind escaped to islands after the war against wicked god Malpercio made surface world unhabitable. Game's main Protagonist is Kalas, 18-years old young man who seeks to avenge his grandfather's death. Kalas has guardian spirit, spirit of immeasurable power who has come from “other side†to help him.
In the beginning of the game, Kalas awakens in Cebalrai, minor farming village somewhere in Sadal Suud. His guardian spirit has lost part of its memory, and can't remember how or why Kalas and it came to Sadal Suud. Kalas goes to investigate the forest where he was found unconscious, and he soon meets young lady named Xelha. Xelha is trying to visit sacred spring that is located deeper in the forest. Because both are going same way, they team up.
Mechanics: What separates Baten Kaitos from other JRPGs is its rather unique card based combat system that you either loved or hated. Each character has its own, separate deck of cards, which size will grow up during the adventure. When combat starts, each active party member picks certain amount of cards from the top of the deck. Like deck's size, this number will grow up during the adventure. Cards are separated into three different categories: attack, defense and status cards. When the character’s turn comes up, player gets three seconds to play cards from active character's hand.
During his turn, character can play either multiple attack cards or one status card. Each attack card has associated element and number. To do combos, you need to play cards that either create straight (2-3-4-5, 5-4-3-2 etc.) or pairs (1-1-2-2, 3-3-2-2, 3-3-2-2-6-6 etc). Cards that have opposing elements cancel each other, and defense cards can be only played on opponents turn as a response to attack. Same rules work here as with attacking. You can play multiple defense cards from your hand, and enhance their effectiveness by playing them in combo.
Example video for combat system. Contains some minor spoilers, and “superb†voice acting.
Issues: Baten Kaitos's battle system was fresh change from traditional JRPG battle systems, but it wasn't without its faults. Most often heard complaint about the system is that it is too luck based. This is at least partially true, as it can sometimes be hard to get useful cards, and you can only discard single card during your turn. This is extremely annoying, as it can mean you can’t do anything for few turns if you have poor draws. Fortunately, designing well-balanced decks helps.
Baten Kaitos is also notorious for its voice acting that is hilariously bad. Each actor either over- or under delivers his/her lines, creating horrible mess that would make even Agapio Racing Team* and Dingo Pictures** proud. I don't personally know anyone who would have finished game without turning speeches off. Furthermore, Namco botched mixing. Original idea was that characters speech would be louder more closer they are the guardian spirit (player) who watches the area from the distance. Neat idea, and it actually works if you have 5.1 sound setup. Unfortunately, without it, every voice sounds muffled and echoes.
* http://koti.mbnet.fi/wheany/agapio/english.php
** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u4h5STlXUc.
Baten Kaitos: Origins
Baten Kaitos had been moderate success, but nobody didn't except that Monolith Soft would create sequel for it. As Gamecube was practically dead in the west, Namco didn't want localize game for western market, but fortunately Nintendo stepped in and decided to publish game in the west. Baten Kaitos: Origins was released in September 25, 2006 for Nintendo Gamecube. This wasn't commercially very smart move, as game only moved around 2 000 copies in USA during its first week.
Poor sales, however, don’t change the fact that Baten Kaitos: Origins is worthy successor for first game, and surpasses its predecessor in many ways. Combat system was now streamlined, making combat faster and more enjoyable. Voice acting was also far better, even very good in some places, thanks to fact that Nintendo itself funded it. Game features voices of Dwight Schultz (Captain "Howling Mad" Murdock from A-Team), TC Carson (Kratos from God of War) and Kirk Thornton (Vampire Hunter D, D's left hand). Motoi Sakuraba once again composed soundtrack, which he personally thinks to be one of his best works.
Plot: Baten Kaitos: Origins takes place twenty years before first game. Game’s main protagonist is Sagi, 15 years old assassin who has joined Alfard Empire's elite unit. He is given questionable mission of killing Emperor Olgan. Mission fails, because someone has already murdered by second party. Sagi and his trustworthy companion, mechanical puppet Guilo are framed for the murder and forced to flee. Soon our heroes are met by third member of the party, young lady named Milliarde. Party needs clear Sagi's name, and solve who or what was behind the murder.
Mechanics: Baten Kaitos: Origins uses card based mechanics like its predecessor, but the system has got complete overhaul. Most important change in the system is that every character in your group uses same deck. Basic attack cards are same for everyone, but armor and weapon cards are character specific. You can play another combat card on the top of last one so long as it has higher number that card that was played before it. Different defense and weapon cards are always valued with 0 and can be played only on the start of the combo.
Another major change in combat mechanics is that you can discard more than one card from your hand in single round. How many cards you can keep in your hand and discard during your turn is based on party's current deck level, which steadily rises as you collect technical points from defeated enemies. This makes game less luck and more deck building based than its predecessor, as you can relatively quickly shuffle around deck and get cards you need.
Example video for combat system. Contains some minor spoilers.
Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean
Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean was released in November 16, 2004 for Nintendo Gamecube. It was quite experimental RPG project that was developed by Monolith Soft (of Xenosaga fame, not to be confused with Monolith Productions), and published by Namco. Game had very old skool feeling with relatively simple plot, beautiful hand-drawn backgrounds, and music that was composed by Motoi Sakuraba, one of the most respected composers in the business.
Plot: Baten Kaitos takes place in an unnamed realm of flying islands. Humankind escaped to islands after the war against wicked god Malpercio made surface world unhabitable. Game's main Protagonist is Kalas, 18-years old young man who seeks to avenge his grandfather's death. Kalas has guardian spirit, spirit of immeasurable power who has come from “other side†to help him.
In the beginning of the game, Kalas awakens in Cebalrai, minor farming village somewhere in Sadal Suud. His guardian spirit has lost part of its memory, and can't remember how or why Kalas and it came to Sadal Suud. Kalas goes to investigate the forest where he was found unconscious, and he soon meets young lady named Xelha. Xelha is trying to visit sacred spring that is located deeper in the forest. Because both are going same way, they team up.
Mechanics: What separates Baten Kaitos from other JRPGs is its rather unique card based combat system that you either loved or hated. Each character has its own, separate deck of cards, which size will grow up during the adventure. When combat starts, each active party member picks certain amount of cards from the top of the deck. Like deck's size, this number will grow up during the adventure. Cards are separated into three different categories: attack, defense and status cards. When the character’s turn comes up, player gets three seconds to play cards from active character's hand.
During his turn, character can play either multiple attack cards or one status card. Each attack card has associated element and number. To do combos, you need to play cards that either create straight (2-3-4-5, 5-4-3-2 etc.) or pairs (1-1-2-2, 3-3-2-2, 3-3-2-2-6-6 etc). Cards that have opposing elements cancel each other, and defense cards can be only played on opponents turn as a response to attack. Same rules work here as with attacking. You can play multiple defense cards from your hand, and enhance their effectiveness by playing them in combo.
Example video for combat system. Contains some minor spoilers, and “superb†voice acting.
Issues: Baten Kaitos's battle system was fresh change from traditional JRPG battle systems, but it wasn't without its faults. Most often heard complaint about the system is that it is too luck based. This is at least partially true, as it can sometimes be hard to get useful cards, and you can only discard single card during your turn. This is extremely annoying, as it can mean you can’t do anything for few turns if you have poor draws. Fortunately, designing well-balanced decks helps.
Baten Kaitos is also notorious for its voice acting that is hilariously bad. Each actor either over- or under delivers his/her lines, creating horrible mess that would make even Agapio Racing Team* and Dingo Pictures** proud. I don't personally know anyone who would have finished game without turning speeches off. Furthermore, Namco botched mixing. Original idea was that characters speech would be louder more closer they are the guardian spirit (player) who watches the area from the distance. Neat idea, and it actually works if you have 5.1 sound setup. Unfortunately, without it, every voice sounds muffled and echoes.
* http://koti.mbnet.fi/wheany/agapio/english.php
** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u4h5STlXUc.
Baten Kaitos: Origins
Baten Kaitos had been moderate success, but nobody didn't except that Monolith Soft would create sequel for it. As Gamecube was practically dead in the west, Namco didn't want localize game for western market, but fortunately Nintendo stepped in and decided to publish game in the west. Baten Kaitos: Origins was released in September 25, 2006 for Nintendo Gamecube. This wasn't commercially very smart move, as game only moved around 2 000 copies in USA during its first week.
Poor sales, however, don’t change the fact that Baten Kaitos: Origins is worthy successor for first game, and surpasses its predecessor in many ways. Combat system was now streamlined, making combat faster and more enjoyable. Voice acting was also far better, even very good in some places, thanks to fact that Nintendo itself funded it. Game features voices of Dwight Schultz (Captain "Howling Mad" Murdock from A-Team), TC Carson (Kratos from God of War) and Kirk Thornton (Vampire Hunter D, D's left hand). Motoi Sakuraba once again composed soundtrack, which he personally thinks to be one of his best works.
Plot: Baten Kaitos: Origins takes place twenty years before first game. Game’s main protagonist is Sagi, 15 years old assassin who has joined Alfard Empire's elite unit. He is given questionable mission of killing Emperor Olgan. Mission fails, because someone has already murdered by second party. Sagi and his trustworthy companion, mechanical puppet Guilo are framed for the murder and forced to flee. Soon our heroes are met by third member of the party, young lady named Milliarde. Party needs clear Sagi's name, and solve who or what was behind the murder.
Mechanics: Baten Kaitos: Origins uses card based mechanics like its predecessor, but the system has got complete overhaul. Most important change in the system is that every character in your group uses same deck. Basic attack cards are same for everyone, but armor and weapon cards are character specific. You can play another combat card on the top of last one so long as it has higher number that card that was played before it. Different defense and weapon cards are always valued with 0 and can be played only on the start of the combo.
Another major change in combat mechanics is that you can discard more than one card from your hand in single round. How many cards you can keep in your hand and discard during your turn is based on party's current deck level, which steadily rises as you collect technical points from defeated enemies. This makes game less luck and more deck building based than its predecessor, as you can relatively quickly shuffle around deck and get cards you need.
Example video for combat system. Contains some minor spoilers.
Hypnotically inclined.
elkatas on
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I never played origins though which still makes me sad. One of these days....
Origins' battle system seemed much more complicated than the original's. I only got a little into it.
Any word on if there are more coming? When Monolith starts putting out games I might finally buy a Wii.
I'm "kupiyupaekio" on Discord.
Those amazing background like the Candy City, the Spirit Forest or the Land of Clouds.
Also, 8-bit top down dungeon with midi music FTW!!!
Disaster: Day of Crisis is probably out this may. German distributor list was leaked on NeoGaf, and its Wii Fit / Mario Kart Wii dates were correct, which probably means that Disaster date is too.
Yup, it was based on Tower of Druaga, property which Namco is very fond of. First BK's limited edition had game included on seperate disc.
The combat and item mechanics, I liked well enough. Virtually everything else -- plot, characterization, dialogue, interface -- had me wishing pain on the designers. Something I noticed about myself during this game was that if a game does the scrolly text thing where the text comes on the screen one letter a time, like
C
Ci
Cin
Cinc
Cinci
Cincin
Etc., etc.
then I'll mash the A button to get it all on the screen faster, but inevitably I skip a bunch of the dialogue boxes inadvertently, especially if they're yes/no choices which for some reason don't do the scrolly text thing. And for some reason, the default choice for the occasional dialogue choices in BK were always the dick conversation option, which I guess was going to give me the bad ending eventually.
Anyways, I don't want to say I hate all JRPGs since aeolist used to get up in people's faces about that, but I didn't enjoy this one a whole lot.
Plot is pretty cliched until you get into second disc. Serious spoilers:
The twist in BK is actually really well done.
BK:O doesn't just have better VAing than BK, it has phenominal voice acting. Right up there with the best of last generation.
BK:O can be found fairly easily at Target these days in a double pack for $30.
BK can still be found at many Toys R US, and some still have the included soundtrack. Great deal, and you should scour some of the shittier stores for this.
Also of note is your character in these games. You play the spirit that follows around the main character. If you get along, cards will sometimes change in mid battle allowing you to continue a combo, so its best to not be a dick, no matter how hilarious the being a dick options are.
I wouldn't go that far, but it had certainly some good voice actors, like Wiseman's. Suitably creepy.
The player being a character within the game was an awesome touch too. It's hilarious if you consantly pick the disagreeing dialog options, though it's better if you act nice, since the bonuses you get are too useful.
I dunno, I couldn't really get into BK, but in the game's defense, I was pretty much sick of RPGs in general when it came out so if I played the sequel now I'd probably enjoy it.
On the one hand, awesome. So, so awesome.
On the other hand, Good God what a pile of suck.
My biggest gripe about the game (other than the voice work) are bits and pieces of the plot. There are some totally awesome twists in there, followed by some desperately lame ones. The characters are likeable and bland at the same time. Sometimes they seem to have a personality, sometimes they don't.
Especially (HUGE SPOILERS)
And then the game forces me to become that bastard's Guardian Spirit again. Well, fuck that noise. I wanted to stay with Xelha.
So yeah, I got some mixed feelings about the game.
On the whole, though, I love it. Quite a lot.
Yeah, that was really the worst part of the whole game. But if you even enjoyed the first game a little, it's well worth it to look into the second. The plot's better, and the Big Twist(tm) really ties into everything a lot better. Plus, although there are fewer characters, they're much more interesting. Take Milly. The first thing she does when she shows up is murder half a dozen soldiers by beating them in the face with two giant clubs. And then she's all cheerful afterwards.
The skull accesories + the Sunrise/Sundown cardcombo was just too powerful. Even if the Wicked God changed it's weaknesses/resistances it didn't matter when the bonus was giving me free ~5,000 damage per turn.
Baten Kaitos 2 can go to hell, that damned Bird and it's babies were hell, and the School of magic nonsense that follows is unbearable, in fact my last save is right there at Anuenue.
Maybe i'll finish it someday with a walkthrough.
Yeah, I dropped the game at about the same point you did. I later read about the "great plot twist" , and I would've LOVED to have gotten to that point but... I just got bored.
In the end, I just couldn't bring myself to like the characters all that much. Oh yes, and I HAD to turn off the voices eventually, main females voice just GRATED on me too much! And I'm normally pretty forgiving when it comes to dubs.
Anyways, maybe someday I'll go back to the game though, I DID love the concept that the character you play in the game is a spirt though. I thought that was a nifty touch.
And yes, I was one of the idiots who missed the whole C-stick thing until right before the final dungeon, so I made it a whole lot harder for myself than it needed to be.
The twists in each, I genuinely never saw them coming. The lack of awareness of BK:O is the greatest crime in gaming this century.
I plan to finally beat Eternal Wings and play the prequel that so many people rave about. I would skip straight to Origins but I've been told that you should play them in order of release.
I only got to the Water Snake boss last night but so far the game has been pretty good. The graphics are amazing and the music is growing on me. The voice acting isn't too painful and it's improved immensely by the "Stereo Trick". My only real complaint with the game so far lies with the battle system. I really wish there was a way to shuffle your deck during battle. Getting three useless cards is extremely frustrating. Not only do I waste a turn but I have no way to get to the cards I actually want. Despite demolishing the Snake boss I'm going to have to reset and fight him again because last time my camera magus never came up. If I'm going to collect every unique Magus it's going to have to depend on stocking my deck with several camera magus wasting much needed space.
Other than that one thing the game is excellent.
Your Current Signature Picture[/SIGPIC]
Oh good lord, if you're looking to try and get every single magnus, you've got a LOT of work ahead of you. Some only arise if you use a specific sequence of cards in-battle, and whatnot.
As for getting specific items, that's part of the charm of the system - if you want certian things to happen, you "stack" your deck in a specific direction. As for getting certain numbers of useless cards, as the game progresses, you get a larger hand to work with, which helps IMMENSELY.
Also, tip to any person just starting the game - get in the habit of choosing cards in battle using the c-stick. Seriously.
I'd like to say I'll get back to it one day but I have since sold it and I rarely have the time for such lengthy RPGs these days
Sadface.
By "stacking" do you mean putting as many as one type of card in your deck as possible? I assume that's what you mean because I know the order of your deck is random and all you can really do is increase your chances of landing on a card. And yeah, increasing my class will certainly help but until then I'm stuck with bamboo seeds.
This is actually my second attempt at playing through the game. Last time I got all the way to Candy Land but stopped because the battle system was driving me nuts. That's mainly having to do with me never bothering to learn how to effectively use my Magus so every battle was ten times harder. Now I'm a bit more jaded. My advise to new players is to CONSTANTLY prune your deck.
Your Current Signature Picture[/SIGPIC]
If I remember correctly there's a nicely minimal spoiling 'One time only card FAQ' over at GameFAQs.
Here's the guide if anyone else needs it: Linky
There's one card that takes 50 hours to develop
Your Current Signature Picture[/SIGPIC]
I don't remember if its in game or not. Regardless, if I remember correctly that guide is really useful for getting some easy to get if you know how healing items early. Items good enough to make the halfway point of the game bearable.
Not that I've played the first, but I'd be more interested if the second was also open to me.
Eternal Wings is good too, but it pales in comparison. Though it does feature a neat and rather sweet sidequest (Quzman).
The world is a strange place.
It is really fun though doing wacky things in BK to get new cards. They took most of that out of BK:O. Also, you can pretty easily beat the final Boss in BK in like two turns if you play your cards right.
http://DocumentingLaziness.blogspot.com/
Akva Burrrrst!
Light Flaare!
You must be in a mad panic!
Schforzando!
:P
I don't think I'll ever complete the first one:
I hated the fact that you didn't level up until you used the special flower (Blue/Orange? I can't remember). It made some parts of the game almost impossible because you couldn't go away and level some then come back.
I like the second game a lot more. The levelling system is better, the card system is better. I'm not that far in, although
It's much more fun.
I don't think this video contains spoilers, but just be warned. It's a 95 hit 25 card combo (The max, I believe) in Origins. Pretty impressive:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=onqUV4siPB8
As far as I know, 50 hours isn't unpaused gameplay time or anything. I left mine on in the middle of a conversation for about a day and a half (I got distracted), and all my cards had aged.
I think I looked at that one time only guide, and some of those cards just don't seem worth going after at all, as far as "Well, that was time well spent" goes.
I managed to get all the way up through the big twist and a little bit after without leveling up. Just by grinding for the right cards and stacking my decks before each zone. Now, not upping my class is a different story, but I didn't level up.
However, I agree that the second game is superior in just about every way.
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The music, however, was fan-fucking-tastic. One of the best game sound tracks there is, methinks.
It might be possible to get in more hits with the right EX Combos, but it would still be the same number of cards.
On the other hand, the hit total is inflated for having 5 opponents while using stuff that hits multiple targets, so probably not.
But yeah: I loved the BKO system so much more than the EWaTLO combat system. Much more fluid, no wasted time with stupid "combo items", and no offense v. defense. The fact that you can pull off ridiculous combos like that one is just the shiny hook on the lure that the system uses to trap you into loving it.