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Arguments against a vegan
Kyougu
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I'm being confronted with a pretty annoying vegan, who compared animal treatment to slavery in how shameful they are to our society. He's the sort that is pushing his view onto others without even realizing how annoying he is.
So I was wondering if anyone has any intelligent counter arguments to use against him? His main argument is that we shouldn't treat animals like we do now, and that we need to evolve past eating meat.
EDIT: Just to make clear, I have no intention to change his mind. I respect anyone with the will to be a vegan, and would never want to push my beliefs onto someone else.
I mainly want something to throw back at him when he starts bringing up the topic other than "It taste good so I'll keep eating meat."
So I was wondering if anyone has any intelligent counter arguments to use against him? His main argument is that we shouldn't treat animals like we do now, and that we need to evolve past eating meat.
EDIT: Just to make clear, I have no intention to change his mind. I respect anyone with the will to be a vegan, and would never want to push my beliefs onto someone else.
I mainly want something to throw back at him when he starts bringing up the topic other than "It taste good so I'll keep eating meat."
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How is this guy in you life? Is he a new part of the group, a friend of a friend, etc?
Just avoid him if at all possible and let him have his ways. You're not going to win an arugment with him. He's going to have some good points about animal cruelty, and he seems pretty set in his ways. Telling him something he doesn't want to hear isn't going to shut him up.
Now if you do walk away, and he keeps getting in your face and trying to turn your other friends against you, then maybe you should consider confronting him about it, but that's up to you.
I'd just let it be though.
And how did the argument begin? Give us details. There may be a more tactful way to exit this debate. You're not going to prove him wrong - or, if you build a solid argument that would convince an otherwise neutral person, you're not going to convince him - so your best recourse is to find a tactful way to ensure that he won't continue bothering you about the issue.
We can help you with that if you provide details about under what circumstances the argument began, and under what circumstances you see the person on a daily basis.
EDIT: We were thinking the same thing Amateur! lol, when I posted I saw yours had just been posted above.
He just brought it up one day out of the blue, and although its not like I see him every day, he does make a mention of it when he sees us eating. It's really not a big deal, since I long learned to mostly ignore idiot customers. I was just hoping to have something to throw agaisnt his smug face next time he brought it up.
As a couple people have said as I was typing this, just avoid him. You won't convert him, he won't convert you, and you'll just annoy the hell out of each other if you try to argue with him. Even if you're not intentionally trying to convert him, more than likely he'll see that as your ultimate purpose anyway, as it sounds like that's pretty much what he's trying to do to you.
If he tries to press the issue, tell him in no uncertain terms that he needs to give up and stop talking to you. Try to be pleasant but firm about it, especially since it sounds like he wanders by on a near-daily basis.
Having dealt with both nice (a cousin) and nasty (upstairs neighbor a few years ago) members of that school of thought, I can tell you (again) that more than likely they will be far too set in their ways to be won over to the meat-eating side, especially if they're being hostile about it like the person in question.
EDIT: I would think the management where you are wouldn't take kindly to customers harassing their employees on their lunch breaks, either, but maybe that's just me.
because if he increases the level of agressiveness you can talk to your manager and have him asked to leave the store. You're under no obligation to take the harassments of a customer.
Note: this probably will never happen, but it's always worth a shot if your manager is cool. It's a business, not a public forum, and he's not entitled to give his political agenda there.
But arguing with him won't really solve the problem... it could just get your manager angry at you for upsetting a customer. If you have a break room, use it. And if the customer's somehow getting in there, he definitely shouldn't be.
If you'd rather not argue, just ask him to leave you alone.
Well, I agree with him about the way we treat animals, but as for the evolutionary aspect, tell him eating meat, as an easy source of a lot of protein, is what allowed us to grow larger brains.
The guy's got no class. When next he bugs you, you might reply "Thanks for the advice, but me and my co-workers are on our downtime trying to enjoy our meal. Kindly let us do that. We can assist you once our break is over."
I'm a meat-eater, and tend to justify it on hedonic/utilitarian grounds (the health and pleasure impacts to human outweigh the negative impacts to animals, especially if you eat humanely raised/free range meat.)
A good argument (PETA sponsored) that conciliates meat-eating with ethical treatment of our food sources can be found in "the meat that you eat". written by a proud carnivore, but railing against certain kind of food productions.
I think the best thing to do is to flank him and show meat can be produced and consumed ethically, but this only works if you buy meat (like kosher or whole foodsish) that is raised that way.
But... but the shame is what makes this burger EXTRA tasty.
If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of MEAT.
Vegetables aren't food, they are what food eats.
Did you know that cattle are the worlds largest producer of greenhouse gasses? I'm just doing my part to make the worljd a better place- one burger at a time.
...etc. I like the self-deprecating style of mockery, making fun of ones self instead of the other person (which could land you in trouble) But if buddy wants to make an issue of you being some heartless bastard for eating teh steak, accept this judgement and amplify it.
'Why yes, I have named this sandwich BlueBelle. I like naming things before I eat them -Greg-, dont you?'
Out of curiosity, why is this ironic? I mean, tuna is still meat, so to the vegan customer it's going to be just as bad as if you were eating a burger.
Yes, and the customer is obviously not going to win his argument either.
As several have suggested, Kyougu, you really just need to not argue with the guy. There's a difference between having a friendly debate about the topic and having someone try to impress their opinions on you without being asked.
He's being unrealistic and an asshole, not unlike other pretentious stereotypes that I'm sure we can all come up with. I'm a liberal atheist who has run into a fair amount of crazy people who go totally nuts over some alternative hogwash or whatever, and I generally don't have the energy to actually attempt to come up with a comeback for someone who really doesn't care, and is essentially on autopilot anyway.
So I treat them like a 5 year old. You know, the kind of kid who just talks and talks and makes stuff up and isn't really making sense. So most of my response is "okay" and "oh, gotcha." In a detached, not really listening tone.
Because, ultimately, you're not looking for arguments against a vegan. You're looking for this dude to leave you alone, without being rude. Just treat him like he's not really making sense, or that you don't really understand what he's talking about.
I agree with this advice the most. It lets the guy know in a polite way you are annoyed ;-).
If you're aiming to piss him off start talking about how great KFC is and wacking cows over the head with hammers "like the good ole days."(joke)
I have a few vegan friends that vary from "I just don't care for the taste," to them just being paranoid from getting sick since they don't like how the FDA does things. They aren't pricks when I eat meat in front of them. They respect me and I respect them.
About the work enviroment, we're a small locally owned video store. I'm actually the assistant manager, so if I really wanted to, I could kick the guy out. He just hasn't crossed the line between annoying and downright hostile, so I don't want to take that alternative.
I think i'll do what most of you said, and ignore him. Just nod, and keep eating. Hopefully he'll get the message.
If you just want to shine him on, you could point out to him that unless he is macrobiotic & organic, he is contributing to just as much animal suffering by supporting the heavy carbon footprint of food shipped over long distances and pesticides used in crop growth. Tell him he should consider giving up eating fruit out of season since its growth and transit are destroying earth's natural climate.
If he's being holier than thou, and you want to shut him up, you can raise the ante significantly. Chances are, he'll fold. thats only if you want to be a jerk, though. Really you should follow the advice above and ignore him.
Afterwards, make sure to kill a dolphin, just so you get your point across
If something happens then I think you need to understand his stance on why exactly he believes eating meat is wrong. It can be easy to agree with people that do it because animals need to be treated with the respect a living creature deserves, before being killed for meat. But he also seems to suggest that eating meat is morally wrong no matter what. So then I'd ask why throughout human history has it become so wrong to eat meat. Or why are animals allowed to kill other animals and eat meat but we can't? Are humans the only exception? If he had it his way should we start putting animals (carnivores and omnivores) in animal prison for their acts or somehow force them to not eat meat either?
i lasted 1 year as a vegan and decided it wasn't for me.
i like to eat meat. all the junk food when i was too lazy to be the good vegan wasn't any healthier.
i wonder if your acquaintance eats a lot of junk food?
Just challenge him to a run, and laugh when his malnourished little chicken legs snap after 50m and what little colour & life are left in his pasty face drain away.
Alternatively: you aren't going to win anything by arguing with him, least of all the argument. Either avoid it, or focus on the 'stop being such a self-righteous evangelistic cnut' angle. Especially since this is at work. Tell him that he's exercised his right to free speech, you've all heard his piece, and now wish to exercise your right to a little peace.
The problem would be if he happens to be one of those new "vegans who only buy food made in a 5 mile radius" people. Because when you up the ante and they call, you're fresh out of options.
Best bet, as Theungry says at the bottom of his post (and others have mentioned) is to not play the game at all. Someone posted above that you should say something like "Thanks, I'll consider it." That might actually work: he'll feel like he's made a difference, so he might be inclined to stop bugging you. If for some reason he comes back on it again, you can follow it up with the "I'm not interested in talking about this on my lunch break" stuff.
EDIT: Just whatever you do, don't bother trying to counter what he's saying with any of the arguments above. There's a million different arguments that can be made for or against this issue, and each one has its counterargument. It's a frustrating exercise in futility, especially if neither of you are interested in changing your minds (from what it sounds like, neither of you are). You'll find yourself more frustrated and less satisfied if you even begin to go down that road.
I actually worked at work on Saturday. Also I went out on a date with a real life girl.
Can you like, permanently break the forums?
Our response was always to just show more enthusiasm in our meals. It's not worth your time or effort to make a good argument against him. Just avoid him.
Or if they've been beefing up on bean and soy-based protein. I've met some beefy people whose entire protein intake comes from those vegetables. In the end, it doesn't really matter *where* you get your protein from, as long as you get all of the essential amino acids in it.
If you feel like confronting him, approach it with humor. It's how I get out of situations involving touchy topics like this. Modest Proposal type humor, over the top sarcasm. Make him seem like he's foolish and needs to lighten the fuck up and leave other people alone. Of course, only if you absolutely need to argue with him.
Kill ants or cockroaches that are in his food?
Use antibacterial soap?
Drive a car? Fossil fuels come from dinosaurs.
Or ask him about all the poor snakes and gophers that get killed by harvesters, unless he handpicks all his own food. If that's the case, you've got a type 4 hippy and the only thing that can drive him off is Slayer music. I would know.
Size has nothing to do with strength. There are some issues with a high soy diet, it may cause your body to think you have a high estrogen level(Ask any one that says this is BS if they still use their Nalgene bottle
Personally, I can understand vegetarians, but when I get condemned for using products because they "oppress" the animal(eggs for example) I get annoyed.
If PETA had their way dogs and cats would roam feral and unspayed/neutered(They don't beleive in keeping pets, it oppresses the animal. Dig into their mantra you will find this viewpoint.) That would be great. The wild bird population would drop to near zero, rabies would be rampant, we might even have an outbreak of plague.
Look, this is obviously the most moral choice. But that doesn't mean you have to follow it. We're human beings, our people have been working their way up the food chain for millions of years, and it wasn't so they could eat twigs and berries. It's the same reason people choose to drink and to smoke. What's the point of living such a proper life if it isn't any fun? Just tell this guy "I like the taste". That's it. That's the only response you need.