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Well, it used to be safe ...

13

Posts

  • deowolfdeowolf is allowed to do that. Traffic.Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    aquabat wrote: »
    deowolf wrote: »
    I just found out that microwaving plastic gives you cancer. I ate out of plastic bowls all throughout my childhood.

    Really? Shit, now I have to re-do dinner.

    I heard this too, but its wrong

    http://health.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=261230

    Well, good.

    deowolf on
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  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Microwaved food doesn't significantly change the number of nutrients in your food. It differs a bit depending on the specific thing, but overall there isn't a net result. People are just afraid of the microwave, I guess because it appears to work by magic. If you explain that all a microwave does is rotate the water molecules really fast (by applying an alternating EM field), causing massive friction which heats your food, people usually go "oh, friction eh". But some remain unconvinced, no matter what you say. Food heated by having water bump at it from the outside = good, food heated by having the water bump at it from the inside = bad.

    Same with the cellphone cancer, the power line cancer, etcet, or the whole "chemically prepared stuff is bad for you", people want to believe in the myth, even if there's no science behind it at all to back it up. The whole bottled water scheme is another one of these, people willing to shell out 1000-10000x the base price for water in a bottle, that's (in the Netherlands at least), usually directly coming from the same sources as our tap water. Put a picture of a mountain with snow on it, double the price again.

    What greatly helps these things is that people automatically distrust the person saying "it's safe", and tend to belief the "Listen to me! This is a threat". And then the story propagates through the believers. I've seen the cellphone claim on TV 4 weeks ago, as a reason to not allow teenagers a phone "It could damage their growing brains". Noone at that discussion table (6 people) refuted it, all just nodded along.

    SanderJK on
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Water also tastes disgusting depending on where you live in the US. I think people justify it with the "oh noes the water is contaminated" excuse because that's something people can sympathize with, but secretly it's because "New Jersey water tastes like dog shit."

    Drez on
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  • Bliss 101Bliss 101 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    It's worth keeping in mind that even if something associates with higher risk of cancer in rats, it doesn't necessarily pertain to human cancer risk at a meaningful level. Different metabolisms, different endocrine systems, and a major difference in natural life expectancy.

    Lab rats are naturally susceptible to cancer, but they live short, hectic lives. They don't get the kinds of (initially) slowly progressing malignancies that are common in humans, because they die of old age first. To manifest in a rat, cancer needs to progress very fast. This can give rise to many kinds of statistical correlations that really don't indicate causality. For example, well-nourished rats with fast metabolism have an increased risk of cancer, and the growth of already developed tumors can be slowed or even halted by keeping the rats on a very restricted diet. Rapidly dividing cells need a lot of nutrition. So nutritious diet causes cancer? Probably not in humans at any rate.

    Bliss 101 on
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  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    SanderJK wrote: »
    Same with the cellphone cancer, the power line cancer, etcet, or the whole "chemically prepared stuff is bad for you", people want to believe in the myth, even if there's no science behind it at all to back it up. The whole bottled water scheme is another one of these, people willing to shell out 1000-10000x the base price for water in a bottle, that's (in the Netherlands at least), usually directly coming from the same sources as our tap water. Put a picture of a mountain with snow on it, double the price again.

    I was thinking about bottled water situation in Switzerland the other day. I only remember the local brand, Heiniez (not to be confused with Heinz, this tasted nothing like baked beans) being in particular abundance. I'm sure it would be more expensive than tap water, but I recal it being pretty cheap nonetheless. The tap water was, where we stayed at least, basically glacial water that ran straight off the mountain into the taps and was thus really nice and clean and refreshing, so I can't imagine there being a huge market for bottled water over there.

    When I was growing up, the farm we lived on in Scotland took it's tap water from a spring on the hill behind our house. Really nice, fresh water, on tap. Then we had some bad weather and the water tank got damaged and the quality degraded slightly (nothing awful, just more deposits in it) so we switched to drinking bottled water and my parents still do (although I'd imagine the tap water is maybe back to normal again, I guess they've just got used to buying bottled or don't trust the tap water not to degrade again).

    Now me and my wife live in a house in the city. Comparatively, we prefer to buy bottled water (nothing fancy, just the supermarket own-brand Scottish spring water) because the tap water tastes noticeably chemically. We don't think we're getting any insane health bonuses from drinking it nor that the tap water might slowly kill us, we just prefer the taste.

    Basically, I'm thinking maybe people with good, natural, water sources on tap are less inclined towards bottled water and vice versa.

    And of course, in the bottled water argument, I always wonder why no one weighs in with the third personality type - the people who drink nothing but softdrinks. More expensive and considerably less healthy or thirst-quenching.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    The thing with bottled water is that so far as I'm aware, the health requirements for it are actually lower than most municipal water systems - ie more bacteria are allowed to live in it. In many places, what's on tap is probably safer.

    The Cat on
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  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    Yeah, well, when did a little bacteria ever harm you?

    I mean that kind of seriously. The water we had coming out of our tap during my childhood was untreated spring water. I guess, if anything, it was passively filtered - the water tank was designed so the water would sit there and any heavy deposits would sink to the bottom and so not make into the tap. I'm sure there was still plenty of bacteria in there. So whut? Tasted lovely.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    /facepalm

    The Cat on
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  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    :D

    What?

    Seriously, what? Drinking the tap water on my parents farm never gave me the runs. Neither does drinking bottled water. Or tap water, incidentally. So...what? There's plenty of bacteria on my hand, but licking it isn't going to kill me. Just because there's more bacteria doesn't mean there's dangerous amounts.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I grew up drinking water that had such a high sulfur content it smelled of eggs. And I'm okay.


    *tic*

    Gooey on
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  • fuelishfuelish Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Ever hear of cholera or typhoid?
    Well water shold have no measuable bacteria in it. I live in the country and have a deep well(220 feet) I had to have it checked after a septic field failure. No bacteria.
    Treated municipal tap water is the safest water you can drink. Even if does sometimes have a chemical taste.

    fuelish on
    Another day in the bike shop Pretty much what it sounds like. The secret lifestyle, laid open.
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Licking your hand could kill you. Especially if you just dipped it in a vat of cyanide or something.

    Drez on
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    fuelish wrote: »
    Ever hear of cholera or typhoid?
    Well water shold have no measuable bacteria in it. I live in the country and have a deep well(220 feet) I had to have it checked after a septic field failure. No bacteria.
    Treated municipal tap water is the safest water you can drink. Even if does sometimes have a chemical taste.

    Is "poop + rust" a chemical taste? because, I swear, some parts of New Jersey and Florida have tap water that tastes like a mixture of the two.

    Drez on
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  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    So how many people have died from the bacteria in bottled water? Roughly?

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • fuelishfuelish Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    So how many people have died from the bacteria in bottled water? Roughly?

    Probably none since it is almost always municipal tap water in the bottle.
    On the other hand how many hundreds of millions of empty bottles are laying on the side of the road or sitting in land fills?

    fuelish on
    Another day in the bike shop Pretty much what it sounds like. The secret lifestyle, laid open.
  • fuelishfuelish Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Drez wrote: »
    fuelish wrote: »
    Ever hear of cholera or typhoid?
    Well water shold have no measuable bacteria in it. I live in the country and have a deep well(220 feet) I had to have it checked after a septic field failure. No bacteria.
    Treated municipal tap water is the safest water you can drink. Even if does sometimes have a chemical taste.

    Is "poop + rust" a chemical taste? because, I swear, some parts of New Jersey and Florida have tap water that tastes like a mixture of the two.

    Some city water systems have a drinking supply and a gray supply for watering the grass. Your system may have been installed backwards. If it tastes like poop it is probably not poop. My septic guy said poop contamination usually makes the water sweet tasting.

    In Florida the water usually has to be softened because of the high mineral/salt content. We do that on the coast here. It does make the water taste odd.

    fuelish on
    Another day in the bike shop Pretty much what it sounds like. The secret lifestyle, laid open.
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    How is that 'the other hand'? Those things don't affect my health. Unless the plastic irradiates cancer when I'm driving by them.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    I should fix 'irradiates cancer' to read 'radiates cancer' but the whole sentence is dumb anyway, so getting the word wrong just makes it extra super dumb.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    On the "lol everything gives you cancer" subject, I tend to be of the opinion that a lot of studies which find a link to cancer are being massively overstated in what that means. It is far far too easy to identify a correlation, and it's being taken as literal proof that "X gives you cancer" despite mechanisms being a lot less common.
    I think also this rise in cancer is just due to people in the west for the most part living so well today. Stuff that used to kill us, and stuff that still kills people today, is almost unheard of. Basically, it seems like everyone gets cancer eventually. It's like the default cause of death for someone who dies of old age - some variety of cancer.

    EDIT: or pretty much what Scarab said on the top of page 2.
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    The banana is going to be extinct before the honey bee.
    D:
    Banana trees are crazy - flowers the size of your head, or bigger.

    Andrew_Jay on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    The best part about bottled water is that the 2 largest brands are sold by Coke and Pepsi respectively. Both are nothing more then Tap Water subject to Reverse Osmosis.

    Selling people their own tap water? That's the kind of insanely ballsy business move I can only admire. It's like their laughing right in our faces while emptying our wallets.

    shryke on
  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    shryke wrote: »
    The best part about bottled water is that the 2 largest brands are sold by Coke and Pepsi respectively. Both are nothing more then Tap Water subject to Reverse Osmosis.

    Selling people their own tap water? That's the kind of insanely ballsy business move I can only admire. It's like their laughing right in our faces while emptying our wallets.
    I loved the picture The Economist used a while back (they always seem to have the best pictures and captions) while covering the fact that Coke and Pepsi were just selling tap water:

    dasaniAFP.jpg
    Quite a business model.

    Andrew_Jay on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    shryke wrote: »
    The best part about bottled water is that the 2 largest brands are sold by Coke and Pepsi respectively. Both are nothing more then Tap Water subject to Reverse Osmosis.

    Selling people their own tap water? That's the kind of insanely ballsy business move I can only admire. It's like their laughing right in our faces while emptying our wallets.

    Only in America...



    No, I mean that, Dasani bombed hard in the UK. People were skeptical enough of it just being tap water but the treatment process they subjected it to made it so toxic they had a high-profile recall of all their stock. I don't know if it's even still sold over here or if they just called it a day.


    Of course, tap water is really just filtered, treated and repackaged spring/rain water in most cases anyway. That wacky water board and their ballsy business of selling us what we can basically get for free if we live near a stream or leave a bucket out on our porch when it rains...

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    shryke wrote: »
    The best part about bottled water is that the 2 largest brands are sold by Coke and Pepsi respectively. Both are nothing more then Tap Water subject to Reverse Osmosis.

    Selling people their own tap water? That's the kind of insanely ballsy business move I can only admire. It's like their laughing right in our faces while emptying our wallets.

    Only in America...



    No, I mean that, Dasani bombed hard in the UK. People were skeptical enough of it just being tap water but the treatment process they subjected it to made it so toxic they had a high-profile recall of all their stock. I don't know if it's even still sold over here or if they just called it a day.


    Of course, tap water is really just filtered, treated and repackaged spring/rain water in most cases anyway. That wacky water board and their ballsy business of selling us what we can basically get for free if we live near a stream or leave a bucket out on our porch when it rains...

    Oh yeah, rain water. That's shits gonna be damn tasty. :roll:

    Not as good as Lake Ontario water, but hell, that's a long walk for me.

    shryke on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    What would be wrong with rain water?

    The cancer bacteria?

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • AdrienAdrien Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    No, I mean that, Dasani bombed hard in the UK. People were skeptical enough of it just being tap water but the treatment process they subjected it to made it so toxic they had a high-profile recall of all their stock. I don't know if it's even still sold over here or if they just called it a day.


    Of course, tap water is really just filtered, treated and repackaged spring/rain water in most cases anyway. That wacky water board and their ballsy business of selling us what we can basically get for free if we live near a stream or leave a bucket out on our porch when it rains...

    I think the point is that the water department sells it for roughly what the service is worth.

    Adrien on
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  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    I think bottled water companies probably sell their product for roughly what it's worth as well. It's just that it costs a lot more to put water into bottles, market it cross-media and ship it to retailers via mass-transit and make a share-holder friendly profit at the same time than it does to collect rain and spring water in a big basin and pipe it to peoples houses.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    So your advocating the irrelevance of the public water system?

    shryke on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    Why on earth would you get that impression?

    You are so terrible at interpretation. Fail.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Your implying that a company selling people bottled tap water is just as silly as the government selling people tap water in the first place because "ZOMG, you can just drink rain water".

    That's just stupid. Tap Water is an essential public service.

    shryke on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    Or I'm implying that they are both perfectly valid businesses, providing people with different needs at prices that reflect the cost of supply.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • AdrienAdrien Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I think bottled water companies probably sell their product for roughly what it's worth as well. It's just that it costs a lot more to put water into bottles, market it cross-media and ship it to retailers via mass-transit and make a share-holder friendly profit at the same time than it does to collect rain and spring water in a big basin and pipe it to peoples houses.

    I'd question that the marketing and transportation efforts actually add value to the water.

    Adrien on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Sure, their both perfectly valid businesses. One just exploits the stupidity of people.

    Also:
    That wacky water board and their ballsy business of selling us what we can basically get for free if we live near a stream or leave a bucket out on our porch when it rains...

    This comment of your comes right out and says that public water is equivalent in it's sillyness to bottled water.

    shryke on
  • GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    You wanna know what really causes cancer? Not dying of something else.

    We're not all meant to be Captain Jack Harkness.

    And what a fuckin shame that is.
    1950308_2b19867ac5_m.jpg

    GungHo on
  • Squirminator2kSquirminator2k they/them North Hollywood, CARegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Y'know, GungHo, with some clever word rearrangement, your post actually says "We're all meant to be fuckin Captain Jack Harkness."

    Squirminator2k on
    Jump Leads - a scifi-comedy audiodrama podcast
  • ege02ege02 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2008
    I was sitting in the computer lab one day when I overheard two people talking. One of them said that when he figured out that Evian is "naive" spelled backwards, he stopped buying it.

    I wanted to kick him in the balls.

    ege02 on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    shryke wrote: »
    Sure, their both perfectly valid businesses. One just exploits the stupidity of people.

    Also:
    That wacky water board and their ballsy business of selling us what we can basically get for free if we live near a stream or leave a bucket out on our porch when it rains...

    This comment of your comes right out and says that public water is equivalent in it's sillyness to bottled water.


    Yes, equivalent in sillyness. As in, neither of them are particularly silly.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    Adrien wrote: »
    I think bottled water companies probably sell their product for roughly what it's worth as well. It's just that it costs a lot more to put water into bottles, market it cross-media and ship it to retailers via mass-transit and make a share-holder friendly profit at the same time than it does to collect rain and spring water in a big basin and pipe it to peoples houses.

    I'd question that the marketing and transportation efforts actually add value to the water.


    Well, firstly its not necessarilly a question of whether they add value to the end product, they are expenses associated with getting the product to market. They have monetary 'worth' in that they cost the company money which must be compensated by the wholesale price.

    Secondly, you could identify added value. The transportation value is rather obvious. It means the customers don't have to travel to the source to get the water. The marketing value us slightly harder to quantify. One possible value is that it reinforces the brand of the product which is often what the purchaser us buying into anyway. The better the brand, the better the percieved value to the customer (and where brand driven purchase is concerned, percieved value is real value - it has various positive mental 'benefits' for the purchaser ie it makes them feel important/better about themselves etc)

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Y'know, GungHo, with some clever word rearrangement, your post actually says "We're all meant to be fuckin Captain Jack Harkness."
    If only we could be so lucky.

    GungHo on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Getting off of edible things, we all used to think Sesame Street was safe. Then a few months back the evening news showed clips of kids jumping on box springs and following strangers home for milk and cookies. Oscar wasn't a grouch - he was a chronically depressed hobo by today's standards. Cookie Monster had diabetes.

    All that encouraged PBS to put a warning label on certain Sesame Street DVDs.

    emnmnme on
  • Squirminator2kSquirminator2k they/them North Hollywood, CARegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    GungHo wrote: »
    Y'know, GungHo, with some clever word rearrangement, your post actually says "We're all meant to be fuckin Captain Jack Harkness."
    If only we could be so lucky.
    <3
    emnmnme wrote: »
    All that encouraged PBS to put a warning label on certain Sesame Street DVDs.

    I think, being honest, that even if Ye Olde Sesame Street hadn't been torn apart by the press, that the DVDs would still have a Warning Label on them.

    Squirminator2k on
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