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the wretched fucking smash brothers thread

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  • CaspianXCaspianX Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Melee was anything but shallow. I still can't grasp half of the competitive concepts (much less put them into practice).

    Wow, I'm posting a lot. You know I'm procrastinating from work when this is the case.

    This is exactly what I'm talking about. And, to be honest, I think any person who professionally reviews/plays videogames who still thinks this is ignorant.

    I'm not a big fan of Halo's multiplayer, but I can see the allure. I can see why people would want to play it. If I had to cover a Halo game, or write a review, I would be open about it, but I wouldn't judge it based on my preferences for games. Same with RTS games; I'm horrible at Starcraft, but I know that there's a deep game there that's been played for 10 years. If I wrote the Starcraft 2 review, I wouldn't plead ignorance about the series, and say it sucks because I just happen to suck at it. I would *gasp* do a little research.

    With some people in the media, though, they just refuse to shake the notion that Smash can be played a lot deeper than they play it. Or that Pikachu's down B isn't actually broken. Or that it's only a party game. In the age of Youtube, where you can type "melee tournament" in the search bar and find videos of some extremely high level matches in about 5 seconds, you really have no excuse for being fully researched on a game you're reviewing. It just shows irresponsible journalism, in my opinion. Sure, maybe you don't play like that, or never will play like that, or don't care how they play like that... but at least, acknowledge that it's possible!

    Hmm... the thing is, I doubt he reviewed any of the Smash games, and it's not like the Melee tourney scene is anywhere as prominent as, say, the Street Fighter tourney seen or the Starcraft tourney scene. So considering that the guy probably played it for a half hour, decided he didn't like it, and didn't give it much thought beyond that, I don't think it's a huge knock against him that he didn't hear about the tourney scene that evolved much, much later.

    Honestly, I'm kinda' the same way with Tekken. Why the hell do people like those games? I dunno, and maybe there's some high-level strategy in those games I don't know about, but for me, they're just button-mashing idiot-fests. But they're not for me, so I stay away from them, and they stay away from me, and we leave it at that.

    CaspianX on
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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Honzo wrote: »
    Isn't reviewing a review you haven't read yet kind of like reviewing a game you haven't played yet?
    Not when subpar reviews are released near constantly by these people with nonsensical reasons for docking points and other bullshit tossed in. The equivalent would be if a game was released every day only slightly different each time: you could probably review the next day's game based off of today's.

    Opty on
  • KelorKelor Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Honzo wrote: »
    Isn't reviewing a review you haven't read yet kind of like reviewing a game you haven't played yet?

    You have to put it into context. We critique their review that we know nothing about while they review a game that they didn't research fully. So it all balances out

    (Note, I'm talking about the IGN review here, so its probably a safe bet.)

    Kelor on
  • HonzoHonzo Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Opty wrote: »
    Honzo wrote: »
    Isn't reviewing a review you haven't read yet kind of like reviewing a game you haven't played yet?
    Not when subpar reviews are released near constantly by these people with nonsensical reasons for docking points and other bullshit tossed in. The equivalent would be if a game was released every day only slightly different each time: you could probably review the next day's game based off of today's.

    You probably could but you risk the chance of being wrong and if you are wrong you will look quite foolish indeed.

    Honzo on
    "Get rich or die trying" -Bruce Lee
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Honzo wrote: »
    You probably could but you risk the chance of being wrong and if you are wrong you will look quite foolish indeed.
    Well when there's 5+ years of corroberating evidence and patterns, making a prediction of this sort is relatively error free.

    Opty on
  • PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Frosteey wrote: »
    Calaveron wrote: View Post
    ElKaboom wrote: View Post
    Kupi wrote: View Post
    Help!

    The more I watch this, the funnier it becomes, but I'm still no closer to knowing where it's from. Someone more versed in anime than I, please explain!
    Ahahaha! Ike's expression then Marth's expression in comparison just seems so in character to me...for some reason.
    He's eyeing Falco hungrily.
    Apparently that is the end theme to the Reborn anime.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caramelldansen

    Dumb locked threads.

    Anyway, it's Popotan and Swedish music.

    ---

    Dumb locked threads...

    That thing is the weirdest I've seen in a long time. I can't stop watching it.

    Peewi on
  • CaspianXCaspianX Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Honzo wrote: »
    Opty wrote: »
    Honzo wrote: »
    Isn't reviewing a review you haven't read yet kind of like reviewing a game you haven't played yet?
    Not when subpar reviews are released near constantly by these people with nonsensical reasons for docking points and other bullshit tossed in. The equivalent would be if a game was released every day only slightly different each time: you could probably review the next day's game based off of today's.

    You probably could but you risk the chance of being wrong and if you are wrong you will look quite foolish indeed.

    Heaven forbid that anyone look foolish on an internet message board.

    CaspianX on
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  • XenoScholarXenoScholar Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Peewi wrote: »
    Frosteey wrote: »
    Calaveron wrote: View Post
    ElKaboom wrote: View Post
    Kupi wrote: View Post
    Help!

    The more I watch this, the funnier it becomes, but I'm still no closer to knowing where it's from. Someone more versed in anime than I, please explain!
    Ahahaha! Ike's expression then Marth's expression in comparison just seems so in character to me...for some reason.
    He's eyeing Falco hungrily.
    Apparently that is the end theme to the Reborn anime.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caramelldansen

    Dumb locked threads.

    Anyway, it's Popotan and Swedish music.

    ---

    Dumb locked threads...

    That thing is the weirdest I've seen in a long time. I can't stop watching it.


    It's amazing. Amazingly awesome.

    And, to CaspianX, I don't really know who it was that made that comment in the 1up podcast. I understand some people have a beef with the Smash franchise... and if you don't like it, I suppose that's cool. But when you're working on a podcast devoted largely to Smash, or you're writing the review... and you know your words will be read/heard by lots of Smash fans, at least do a bit of research first! Maybe instead of thinking "Smash sucks, I don't think there's anything deep at all here", maybe you could ask "hmm... last time I played Smash, I found it to be fairly button-mashy. I wonder how the gameplay has evolved over the course of these last 6 years?"

    Granted, this is assuming the person doesn't *want* to ignite a flame under Smash fans, which is where I go back to my "bad journalism" point.

    Oh, and about Tekken... trust me, I don't like it much either. However, there's a hugely deep game there; many of my Street Fighter friends also play Tekken at a pretty capable level. It's not for me, but I would never write a review and say that Tekken is, at its core, a button masher. That's simply not true, and readily available evidence (Youtube, etc) supports it.

    People who say this about Smash ("the way the game is played in high-level tournaments is not for me, and when I play with friends it is mostly a button-masher") I can respect, because at least they kind of realize that there is a game deeper than they choose to play it. And, for the 500,000 people who will read their review, surely at least 1 of those people would probably appreciate this objective comment. But to claim that Smash can't be played at a high level... that, at its core, there's nothing more you can do than just button-mash and flail around, is extremely ignorant.

    XenoScholar on
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  • KelorKelor Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Except for Eddy and Christy. I'm with you up to there.

    Kelor on
  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    So, is this gonna be the last Smash thread until the game comes out or do we have another one in us before its [GAME ON]

    quovadis13 on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    The vast majority of reviewers know nothing of the real depth of the game. But that works out well because neither does anyone who will actually be basing their purchase on the review scores. Hardcore Smash fans would write terrible reviews.

    Zek on
  • Captain CrunchCaptain Crunch Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    So, is this gonna be the last Smash thread until the game comes out or do we have another one in us before its [GAME ON]

    Did you like the VC secret santa game I got you?

    Captain Crunch on
  • CaspianXCaspianX Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    And, to CaspianX, I don't really know who it was that made that comment in the 1up podcast. I understand some people have a beef with the Smash franchise... and if you don't like it, I suppose that's cool. But when you're working on a podcast devoted largely to Smash, or you're writing the review... and you know your words will be read/heard by lots of Smash fans, at least do a bit of research first! Maybe instead of thinking "Smash sucks, I don't think there's anything deep at all here", maybe you could ask "hmm... last time I played Smash, I found it to be fairly button-mashy. I wonder how the gameplay has evolved over the course of these last 6 years?"

    Granted, this is assuming the person doesn't *want* to ignite a flame under Smash fans, which is where I go back to my "bad journalism" point.

    Oh, and about Tekken... trust me, I don't like it much either. However, there's a hugely deep game there; many of my Street Fighter friends also play Tekken at a pretty capable level. It's not for me, but I would never write a review and say that Tekken is, at its core, a button masher. That's simply not true, and readily available evidence (Youtube, etc) supports it.

    Firstly, I think that the 1UP crew frowns on the idea of videogame "journalism" in general. Hey, don't ask me - as far as I'm concerned, it's some sort of anti-establishment "we're too cool for that" thing. Second of all, these guys weren't critiquing the game in any serious manner, they were shooting the shit. That's what 1UP does on their podcasts - they just chat up the topic. And I kind of think that, in that kinda' context, research just doesn't seem appropriate.

    Also, and I can't believe this isn't more obvious, but we're talking about a game where you have Mario fighting Pikachu in wacky-crazy levels using wacky-crazy items. Most people undoubtedly look at this in the same light as a Mario Party game - as in, it's not designed to be taken seriously, or have any great amount of depth. Does Mario Party have any deep strategy or expert playing techniques? I suppose it's possible, but I don't care, because as far as I'm concerned, it was designed to be a shallow party game to toss in front of the peanut gallery for a bit while we drink beer and laugh at how silly it all is.

    Now let's take a step back. Yes, I know that Smash is different. I know that it's deeper. However, I don't think it's fair to expect everyone out there, or even every game reviewer, to know that such a deeper game exists. Arguably, Sakurai never expected anything along the lines of SHFFL strategies and wavedashing. From all outward appearances, Smash really is just a kooky fun game with a bunch of Nintendo characters beating each other up. The fact that it has evolved into something more speaks to the quality of game design that has been poured into the product.


    As for Tekken, yeah, I know it's deeper. I figure as much from all the raves the series gets. I still don't care, because I think it is an overrated piece of shit. That's just my opinion, and I know that opinions vary, but... well, there it is.

    CaspianX on
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  • MarioGMarioG Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Is there a website that has all the ways to unlock the brawl chracters and correctly? Because all the possibilities seem to scattered and i need to find the most convinient ways to unlock characters.

    MarioG on
    Kay wrote:
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    Hey, I have a blog! (Actually being updated again!)

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  • ZackSchillingZackSchilling Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Peewi wrote: »
    Frosteey wrote: »

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caramelldansen

    Dumb locked threads.

    Anyway, it's Popotan and Swedish music.

    ---

    Dumb locked threads...

    That thing is the weirdest I've seen in a long time. I can't stop watching it.

    It's some sort of bizarre Japanese meme. Certainly not the weirdest I've seen in a while, but strange to be sure, if only for it's funny music and zero context.

    ZackSchilling on
    ghost-robot.jpg
  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Zek wrote: »
    The vast majority of reviewers know nothing of the real depth of the game. But that works out well because neither does anyone who will actually be basing their purchase on the review scores. Hardcore Smash fans would write terrible reviews.

    hence the extremely bad IGN character "show cases"

    TelMarine on
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  • zerg rushzerg rush Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Opty wrote: »
    Honzo wrote: »
    Isn't reviewing a review you haven't read yet kind of like reviewing a game you haven't played yet?
    Not when subpar reviews are released near constantly by these people with nonsensical reasons for docking points and other bullshit tossed in. The equivalent would be if a game was released every day only slightly different each time: you could probably review the next day's game based off of today's.
    So, reviewers are allowed to give bad reviews to Madden games without playing them now?

    zerg rush on
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    zerg rush wrote: »
    So, reviewers are allowed to give bad reviews to Madden games without playing them now?
    That's not constant enough, technically, but yes. Yes they can.

    Opty on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2008
    If a random number generator has been running for the past five years every day and has come out with 8 every time, you're not a moron for expecting an 8 tomorrow.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    the retronaught thing wasn't actually too bad. An interesting perspective, at the very least.

    Fencingsax on
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2008
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    the retronaught thing wasn't actually too bad. An interesting perspective, at the very least.
    I'm glad I wasn't alone in my hatred of Zero Suit Samus.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • XenoScholarXenoScholar Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I tend to get more "worked up" about ignorance than I should, because in general, the internet is an extremely ignorant place, and I hate ignorance. :) When it comes to ignorance about a game I love, I guess it just affects me more.

    If IGN gives the game 8.5 or something, I'm sure everyone will be able to easily identify the dumb parts of the review, but it won't really affect my purchase or enjoyment of the game. It will, however, irritate me.

    I asked this question last thread, though, which is kind of why it's interesting to me... how much do people care about the metascore a game gets? If I really love the game, I just want to see it reviewed well.

    XenoScholar on
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  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I only care about the metascores of games I've actually worked on. Even then I usually find a reason to call the reviewers idiots.

    Houk the Namebringer on
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2008
    Donkey moves update on the Dojo.

    Apparently he fire meteors in spurts.

    If they hit you, it's gonna hurt.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • CaspianXCaspianX Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Houk wrote: »
    I only care about the metascores of games I've actually worked on. Even then I usually find a reason to call the reviewers idiots.

    Hey, Houk! NIS games SUCK!
    Aw, who am I kidding... how can I hate the guys that brought us Disgaea?

    CaspianX on
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  • Baka_ShadeBaka_Shade Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    donkeykong_080304e-l.jpg

    Owie.

    And huh, the name 75m suddenly makes so much sense. I'd had no idea. XD

    Baka_Shade on
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  • Clint EastwoodClint Eastwood My baby's in there someplace She crawled right inRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Also a profile for 75m, and yes, that is the stage's official US name.
    Because the height DK is standing at is 75 meters.

    Also there is a Donkey Kong masterpiece, which allows you to start at the 75m stage. Wicked.

    Clint Eastwood on
  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    nice, DK has no-flinch on a fully charged punch, I can't remember if it was the same in Melee, but it sucked getting interrupted right when you were going to use it.

    TelMarine on
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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2008
    It did not have super armor in melee.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • CaspianXCaspianX Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    It did not have super armor in melee.

    Didn't his Up+B spin have it, though?

    CaspianX on
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  • ElKaboomElKaboom Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    CaspianX wrote: »
    It did not have super armor in melee.

    Didn't his Up+B spin have it, though?
    I'm pretty sure I remember spiking a many DKs while he was using his Up+B. But you've made me doubt...

    -EDIT-
    Tested it, and unless there are frames in which he has super armor in melee, I didn't find it. I spiked him a few times during his Up+B with Falco.

    ElKaboom on
  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Donkey moves update on the Dojo.

    Apparently he fire meteors in spurts.

    If they hit you, it's gonna hurt.

    Going by this update, it's pretty obvious he's bigger, faster and stronger too
    He's the first member
    Of the DK crew!

    plufim on
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  • RidleySariaRidleySaria AnaheimRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    the retronaught thing wasn't actually too bad. An interesting perspective, at the very least.

    Hm. I thought it was awful. I'm okay with Parish expressing his opinion, it was just painful to listen to.

    RidleySaria on
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  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Henroid on
  • Helpless RockHelpless Rock Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    So, I really want to get this day of. I however do not have a pre-order or reserve of any kind. Is this bad? Should I get one? There's a high chance I'll being to the midnight launch though. Should I still get a pre-order?

    Helpless Rock on
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  • ldrawldraw Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    It couldn't hurt.

    There is a chance (depending on your store) that you won't be able to find a copy on release day. Still, I honestly am not entirely convinced that this chance is probabilistically high enough to warrant stressing out over going in without a pre-order though.

    ldraw on
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  • KagnarosKagnaros Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    My roomate just preordered today at Gamestop...so get out there and do it!!!!

    Kagnaros on
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  • ldrawldraw Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    so.. 9.5 at IGN. Reading review now.

    e: Main gripes seem to be long load times following level selection, paltry online functionality (i.e. no leaderboards, no DLC), and a finicky control scheme ill-suited to SSE's platforming single player experience (although the controls handle wonderfully when simply brawling they note).

    These points seem valid, but I'm not sure what any of us were expecting. Nintendo is notoriously backwards when it comes to online, loading needs to occur at some point (for contemporary disc-based systems that don't involve installation), and controls cannot logically be optimized for SSE. Still, I'm very happy with a 9.5.

    ldraw on
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  • RidleySariaRidleySaria AnaheimRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Wow. Higher score than I thought they'd give it, actually. Neato.

    edit: Heh heh. I like how Matt managed to work in a little jab at Nintendo for not giving Twilight Princess an orchestrated soundtrack like they said they would.

    RidleySaria on
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  • NarianNarian Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Long loading times? Really? Really?

    Narian on
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This discussion has been closed.