Am I the only person who isn't too keen with everything needing DLC or it's not as good?
I'm one of the old fogeys who dislikes DLC (I paid for a full game, give me one. Games like Rock Band are exempt, they lend themselves well to that structure), and is wary of online play. Where some people might be disappointed in Nintendo's online, I'm happy that at least one company remembers we have real life friends.
Not that I'm dissing online play, it's great, but the increasing trend of games that lack offline multiplayer disturbs me. I'm looking at you, all the 360 games I own.
I wasn't planning on getting this game anytime soon, but I just won some random contest for a fifty buck gift card to Best Buy, so I may as well! I'm glad I only have to wait a few days in between really wanting it and being able to buy it, avoiding the hype makes things go so much smoother.
So... has there ever been a fighting game to get DLC?
If yes, then maybe the IGN gripe has some merit.
If no, they're just being overly nitpicky.
cloudeagle on
Switch: 3947-4890-9293
0
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited March 2008
I convinced the girl im going to be hanging out with saturday to come with me for the midnight release. Now the only question is will she let me enter the tournament? I have a strong feeling I could easilly win the store one as I know my area is not big on quality players, and my pretty heavy knowledge of fighting games from tournies for Soul Calibur and Guilty Gear make me feel I should have some kind of base advantage.
I think it's less of expectations and more desperate, desperate hope. This is the kind of game where expanding the roster of character ad infinitum is plausible, and everyone has at least one favorite character that didn't make the cut.
EmperorSeth on
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
DoA4 claimed there was going to be DLC, and even had an empty slot on the character select for it, but they never released it.
They did however release a patch that rebalanced the game a bit and even gave some characters new moves.
Small Arms got 2 new characters and 2 new stages, but it's an XBLA game so it may not count.
There haven't been to terribly many fighting games out this generation though, and last generation only the XBox really had the option for DLC and since most fighting games are multiplatform they didn't really go for it.
I really expect higher. Looks like they nitpicked it to an excessive degree.
Well, one also has to consider, in addition to the small nitpicks, that this is really a polishing up of a pre-existing game rather than a completely new and fresh effort. That doesn't make it bad, but it was never going to get a 10.
Darlan on
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
I really expect higher. Looks like they nitpicked it to an excessive degree.
Well, one also has to consider, in addition to the small nitpicks, that this is really a polishing up of a pre-existing game rather than a completely new and fresh effort. That doesn't make it bad, but it was never going to get a 10.
So.. it's a refinement of a 6 year old game.. But because it is a sequel, it gets knocked down. I never understood this mindset from IGN, even going back to Majora's Mask (which they gave a 9.9 because it was a better game than Ocarina of Time, but a sequel nonetheless).
Athenor on
He/Him | "We who believe in freedom cannot rest." - Dr. Johnetta Cole, 7/22/2024
who really cares what score it gets. the game looks fun. the reviewers say its fun. i'm sure that anyone posting here is going to buy it day one and play the hell out of it.
I am really surprised that the graphics were knocked down so much. Melee had (and still has imo) superb character models that still look good nowadays and Brawl's models blow them out of the water. The backgrounds look absolutely great as well, really question this gripe (even when it was made about Melee).
Seriously let's not even talk about the IGN review anymore
I had an idea while playing Melee just now: mapping grab to X
I am a genius
Yep that's what I'm gonna do. I hate the Z trigger. I'll also probably mod my controller to remove the trigger springs, now that the shield isn't pressure-sensitive anymore(you have to press it all the way down for it to come out).
I always use R+A to grab. Gives me the ability to let them attack into my sheild first, which is a huge advantage over Z grabbing.
Sure, but Z is the only way to dash-grab or use a tether recovery.
Ever since I learned how to shield-grab, I think Z is fine. The only problem with it is it sometimes activated your light shield instead of a grab which was extremely annoying.
Oh geez, can we stop the nerd rage with the "My faaaaaaavourite game didn't get a 10! FUCK THEM!!!". I mean, christ, this board does this with every single game.
You like the game. You hate the review. We get it.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I am really surprised that the graphics were knocked down so much. Melee had (and still has imo) superb character models that still look good nowadays and Brawl's models blow them out of the water. The backgrounds look absolutely great as well, really question this gripe (even when it was made about Melee).
It's the only real WTF in the review.
My review especially if I was lead reviewer on some big site.
I'd actually agree with a lot of the other criticisms IGN leveled... I can see SSE getting a bit tedious, and the load times for many, many matches I've seen on youtube are pretty long.
Does anyone know a great place for some HD direct-feed Smash Bros. Brawl movies? Doesn't really matter how old they are, I just want something to throw on our TV. We're gonna have Gamecube controllers in hand when my brother gets home and see if we can throw him off.
Does anyone know a great place for some HD direct-feed Smash Bros. Brawl movies? Doesn't really matter how old they are, I just want something to throw on our TV. We're gonna have Gamecube controllers in hand when my brother gets home and see if we can throw him off.
I always use R+A to grab. Gives me the ability to let them attack into my sheild first, which is a huge advantage over Z grabbing.
Sure, but Z is the only way to dash-grab or use a tether recovery.
Well I still have access to the Z button for when I need it. But typically it doesn't bother me at all, I just ignore it.
I dash grab with shield+A all the time with seemingly no repercussions. The tether thing is totally different so it's obvious not to air-dodge in that case.
Does anyone know a great place for some HD direct-feed Smash Bros. Brawl movies? Doesn't really matter how old they are, I just want something to throw on our TV. We're gonna have Gamecube controllers in hand when my brother gets home and see if we can throw him off.
Does anyone know a great place for some HD direct-feed Smash Bros. Brawl movies? Doesn't really matter how old they are, I just want something to throw on our TV. We're gonna have Gamecube controllers in hand when my brother gets home and see if we can throw him off.
You sick bastard, thats an ingenious idea. You need to video it.
Does anyone know a great place for some HD direct-feed Smash Bros. Brawl movies? Doesn't really matter how old they are, I just want something to throw on our TV. We're gonna have Gamecube controllers in hand when my brother gets home and see if we can throw him off.
IGN is entitled to their opinion, but I disagree with a few things in the review.
- They give it 8.5 for graphics, when I believe it's the prettiest Wii game to date. They talk about graphics that are "definitely lacking in some areas", but provide no concrete examples. In fact, having played the game, I have no idea what areas they're talking about. Melee, where they DID give specific examples of some jaggies (etc) scored a 9.0 for graphics.
I was under the impression Brawl and Melee were exactly the same graphically in the sense that they're both the benchmark of graphical power (as in "these are very good graphics for this console")
- "character animations, while speedy, typically ignore the laws of physics, weight, and momentum": this sentence makes no sense to me. Are they confused because different characters fall at different speeds and such?
Are they confused it's a video game?
"I liked Spider-man 2. Despite Toby Maguire being fairly stiff and whiny, Alfred Molina stole the show. Although the mechanical arms and clinging to walls ignores the laws of physics, and Spider-man being superstrong without hugely increased musclemass makes no sense in the real world."
- "The cartridge-fast speed in which you can navigate Brawl's character and stage selection screens is marred by a 20-second front-end load, a truth that clashes with the majority of other Nintendo-published titles." In an era where the Wii has the fastest load times by far of any current-gen console, it seems silly to complain about a 20 second (it doesn't seem that long, I thought it was maybe 10 seconds) one-time load at the start of the game. Once the game is booted, you don't even notice it's running on a disc (except when loading the large custom levels). I just don't understand why it would get flak for this, especially considering the average 360 and PS3 game can take far longer to start up, and has significant load times at every juncture of the game; and these load times are very rarely even mentioned in the review for such games! It's just a part of gaming now, so to see this comment about such a small, insignificant number is very puzzling to me.
I wouldn't mind if 360 and PS3 games loaded for 20 seconds at the start as long as it was fluid and quick afterwards.
- "Nintendo devotees will argue that [SSE] is but a complementary piece to the meat and potatoes of the game and they will be right, and yet that does not mean we can give it a free pass." Does this mean that the game would have been better off without any single-player options? I'm honestly curious, because most amazing 1P games are perfectly fine without any multiplayer options (Ocarina of Time, eg). And Brawl never makes you touch SSE if you're so inclined. I'm confused why "included, but not as good" is actually worse than "nothing included at all". It's actually similar to the Wiimote control scheme. It's included, but some people argue that the GC controller scheme is vastly superior. Does this mean Brawl should be punished for offering an inferior Wiimote control scheme? By this logic, I believe you could make a case for it.
I think it's Pokemon Coliseum logic. Of course to be fair, in Coliseum, the single player was BAD. Not just "just there". It was outright BAD, so there WAS a reason to dock points.
- "The biggest problem with the mode, which to its credit does support two-player cooperative games, is that Sora has merely kidnapped the control schemes designed for a 3D fighter and transplanted them into vertical and horizontal-scrolling platform-heavy stages. While these [control] schemes are perfectly suited for fast-paced fights, they are only passable for more traditional levels [in SSE]." I just wanted to say I disagree with this. I've had no problems playing SSE and feeling like the controls were very well suited. This is an objective thing, though.
I can totally see this being a valid argument though.
- "Also, Mr. Sakurai recently confirmed that there are no plans to offer any new Nintendo-developed stages or characters by way of WiiConnect24, a huge oversight in our opinion." I'm not sure they really thought this through much. It's a pretty difficult thing to add DLC to a fighting game, especially one played online where no one is forced to download all the latest stuff. For other types of games it works quite well, but a fighter isn't one of them. Stages... maybe, but characters, no. This is my opinion.
New costumes is one thing, but new STAGES is hard enough, new characters would be hell. Especially if I log on and "A CHALLENGER APPROACHES! Downloading Isaac character file......................................Done! Your opponent has disconnected."
Of course, if it's like Warcraft 3 or Starcraft, it'll be "Downloading custom map, 1...40...90...Kicked from game."
---
In my opinion, I think even if Nintendo would have hand-delivered changes/fixes to each of their complaints, they would have found other faults with the game. It's just one of those games where no one will be happy (why didn't they include character X? is a good example, and Bozon mentions that as a complaint in his closing statment).
I'm mostly content with the score, but I'm not too content with the... philosophy (?) they took behind some of the components in the game. Granted, I think Brawl is a better game than both Melee (9.6) and Mario Galaxy (9.7), so I wish they'd try to be more consistent with their scores.
I think this post is the exact reason they scored it as they did. As with the scoring of Twilight Princess.
Now, unlike my normal hatred of "ANY PUBLICITY IS GOOD PUBLICITY LAWL" I think this was more to stir up controversy than hits.
But it's Matt Bananarama so chances are it could have literally every video game character, a control scheme for everyone, graphics that make reality look like shit, and an amazing and free online service and he'd still cry that he can't play as Batman.
For a man who claims to be as big a Nintendo fanboy as he does, all he seems to be interested in doing is bitching about how much Nintendo is letting him down.
Mugenmidget: I hate you with every fiber of my being and yet, at the same time, I love you, you magnificent bastard.
The Muffin Man on
0
Clint EastwoodMy baby's in there someplaceShe crawled right inRegistered Userregular
edited March 2008
The only problem I have is the complaint about the animations. What the hell is that?
It was a great review otherwise and basically exactly what I expected.
IGN is notorious for dropping points on Nintendo games for things that aren't in the game. Like taking points "For no online", when the game never had it in the first place.
People just need to stop reading IGN reviews. They're more of a review of their 'idea' of what a game should be, not the game itself. I think if these guys were so pissed at Nintendo, they'd switch channels.
I mean hell, Halo 2 didn't have any DLC for about half a year. It released in 2004, DLC came out May 2005. And.. that was it. That was all we got. Until 2007, when a Bungie spinoff did an entire two maps for halo 2, and sold them for 4$. Yay?
So for 3 years of waiting we went from 12 maps to 24, while Brawl comes out with 35+. So far, DLC would be overkill.
It seems some of the stuff in the review is just being mentioned to let people know what to expect. Some of the stuff like the unrealistic physics isn't being mentioned because it's a bad thing. It's just being mentioned.
I think Bozon said it best in his "Another Take" section of the review...
"It isn’t so much that Nintendo "failed" in a specific section of the Smash experience, but rather there was untapped potential that is visible through the small cracks in the game design."
I think that's the thing with Smash. There is no limit to how many characters, features, levels you could add, so almost everyone will have something they wish was added.
At the same time, I'm not sure they knocked off that .5 for any of those gripes or anything else that was inlcuded. The frustrating Nintendo online philosophy (no voice chat/rankings/leaderboards/DLC), and maybe a couple of long load times. .5 isn't very much. (Personally, I don't think any game should ever get a 10).
Also, comparing the 9.5 score to whatever Melee got is stupid. 2 different games at 2 different times lead to different opinions. No matter what you want it to be, this review is this guys opinion and that's it. Why anyone will take offence is beyond me. This game will be fucking amazing, and that's it. One of the best games ever. They even said so in the review. No one is disputing that.
Posts
I'm one of the old fogeys who dislikes DLC (I paid for a full game, give me one. Games like Rock Band are exempt, they lend themselves well to that structure), and is wary of online play. Where some people might be disappointed in Nintendo's online, I'm happy that at least one company remembers we have real life friends.
Not that I'm dissing online play, it's great, but the increasing trend of games that lack offline multiplayer disturbs me. I'm looking at you, all the 360 games I own.
If yes, then maybe the IGN gripe has some merit.
If no, they're just being overly nitpicky.
I just hope my store has a decent prize.
I think Rumble Roses had DLC costumes. I think that's it.
...which is a far cry from new characters or stages. Yup, this is a case of overly-inflated expectations.
They did however release a patch that rebalanced the game a bit and even gave some characters new moves.
Small Arms got 2 new characters and 2 new stages, but it's an XBLA game so it may not count.
There haven't been to terribly many fighting games out this generation though, and last generation only the XBox really had the option for DLC and since most fighting games are multiplatform they didn't really go for it.
So.. it's a refinement of a 6 year old game.. But because it is a sequel, it gets knocked down. I never understood this mindset from IGN, even going back to Majora's Mask (which they gave a 9.9 because it was a better game than Ocarina of Time, but a sequel nonetheless).
More at 11
I had an idea while playing Melee just now: mapping grab to X
I am a genius
Looks exciting.
Yep that's what I'm gonna do. I hate the Z trigger. I'll also probably mod my controller to remove the trigger springs, now that the shield isn't pressure-sensitive anymore(you have to press it all the way down for it to come out).
FUCK MY SCHEDULE
Sure, but Z is the only way to dash-grab or use a tether recovery.
Ever since I learned how to shield-grab, I think Z is fine. The only problem with it is it sometimes activated your light shield instead of a grab which was extremely annoying.
Well I still have access to the Z button for when I need it. But typically it doesn't bother me at all, I just ignore it.
You like the game. You hate the review. We get it.
It's the only real WTF in the review.
My review especially if I was lead reviewer on some big site.
10
Go out and buy this game.
Dinging it for no DLC is just silly though.
I dash grab with shield+A all the time with seemingly no repercussions. The tether thing is totally different so it's obvious not to air-dodge in that case.
Wii Would Like to Play.
Video! YOU MUST VIDEO THIS!
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You sick bastard, thats an ingenious idea. You need to video it.
This is hilarious.
Are they confused it's a video game?
"I liked Spider-man 2. Despite Toby Maguire being fairly stiff and whiny, Alfred Molina stole the show. Although the mechanical arms and clinging to walls ignores the laws of physics, and Spider-man being superstrong without hugely increased musclemass makes no sense in the real world."
I wouldn't mind if 360 and PS3 games loaded for 20 seconds at the start as long as it was fluid and quick afterwards.
I think it's Pokemon Coliseum logic. Of course to be fair, in Coliseum, the single player was BAD. Not just "just there". It was outright BAD, so there WAS a reason to dock points.
I can totally see this being a valid argument though.
New costumes is one thing, but new STAGES is hard enough, new characters would be hell. Especially if I log on and "A CHALLENGER APPROACHES! Downloading Isaac character file......................................Done! Your opponent has disconnected."
Of course, if it's like Warcraft 3 or Starcraft, it'll be "Downloading custom map, 1...40...90...Kicked from game."
I think this post is the exact reason they scored it as they did. As with the scoring of Twilight Princess.
Now, unlike my normal hatred of "ANY PUBLICITY IS GOOD PUBLICITY LAWL" I think this was more to stir up controversy than hits.
But it's Matt Bananarama so chances are it could have literally every video game character, a control scheme for everyone, graphics that make reality look like shit, and an amazing and free online service and he'd still cry that he can't play as Batman.
For a man who claims to be as big a Nintendo fanboy as he does, all he seems to be interested in doing is bitching about how much Nintendo is letting him down.
Mugenmidget: I hate you with every fiber of my being and yet, at the same time, I love you, you magnificent bastard.
It was a great review otherwise and basically exactly what I expected.
People just need to stop reading IGN reviews. They're more of a review of their 'idea' of what a game should be, not the game itself. I think if these guys were so pissed at Nintendo, they'd switch channels.
I mean hell, Halo 2 didn't have any DLC for about half a year. It released in 2004, DLC came out May 2005. And.. that was it. That was all we got. Until 2007, when a Bungie spinoff did an entire two maps for halo 2, and sold them for 4$. Yay?
So for 3 years of waiting we went from 12 maps to 24, while Brawl comes out with 35+. So far, DLC would be overkill.
I think Bozon said it best in his "Another Take" section of the review...
"It isn’t so much that Nintendo "failed" in a specific section of the Smash experience, but rather there was untapped potential that is visible through the small cracks in the game design."
I think that's the thing with Smash. There is no limit to how many characters, features, levels you could add, so almost everyone will have something they wish was added.
At the same time, I'm not sure they knocked off that .5 for any of those gripes or anything else that was inlcuded. The frustrating Nintendo online philosophy (no voice chat/rankings/leaderboards/DLC), and maybe a couple of long load times. .5 isn't very much. (Personally, I don't think any game should ever get a 10).
Also, comparing the 9.5 score to whatever Melee got is stupid. 2 different games at 2 different times lead to different opinions. No matter what you want it to be, this review is this guys opinion and that's it. Why anyone will take offence is beyond me. This game will be fucking amazing, and that's it. One of the best games ever. They even said so in the review. No one is disputing that.
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