The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Has your opinion changed about Nintendo's online plan?
Kyougu
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I didn't want to derail the Mario Kart thread further, so I'm throwing this topic, which I think is relevant as Brawl just came out, and it's the first taste of online on the Wii for many of us.
I for one have been completely turned off Nintendo's online, and rethinking any purchases that may have online based on my experience with Brawl. And I was one of the people always willing to give it a chance.
It's not even the lag that bothers me, since that's a technical issue I think any system would encounter. My problem is just how unwieldy everything is. Adding friends is a pain in the ass since you don't get one notification of someone adding you, so you have to coordinate things here in the forum, or real life.
Random play is even worse. It's so limited, and so inpersonal, that I may as well be playing the computer. And that's when it works. I think I connected like 4 times in all the times I tried.
Finally, there's the fact I been spoiled by live and even ps2 online. Voice chat, inviting friends, looking through lobbies, they're things I taken for granted in my online experience, and realize that I can't really do without.
So yeah, I think I'm going to be holding off Mario Kart (The next big online game) and will be waiting for reviews on any game that may have online before purchasing. How bout you guys?
I for one have been completely turned off Nintendo's online, and rethinking any purchases that may have online based on my experience with Brawl. And I was one of the people always willing to give it a chance.
It's not even the lag that bothers me, since that's a technical issue I think any system would encounter. My problem is just how unwieldy everything is. Adding friends is a pain in the ass since you don't get one notification of someone adding you, so you have to coordinate things here in the forum, or real life.
Random play is even worse. It's so limited, and so inpersonal, that I may as well be playing the computer. And that's when it works. I think I connected like 4 times in all the times I tried.
Finally, there's the fact I been spoiled by live and even ps2 online. Voice chat, inviting friends, looking through lobbies, they're things I taken for granted in my online experience, and realize that I can't really do without.
So yeah, I think I'm going to be holding off Mario Kart (The next big online game) and will be waiting for reviews on any game that may have online before purchasing. How bout you guys?
Kyougu on
0
Posts
I don't think you can say they would be copying Sony if they used a universal name, voice chat, and lobbies. It's really the bare minimum now. Anything less would be stupid.
http://DocumentingLaziness.blogspot.com/
The lag is annoying for smash, but the gameplay is there. That's what decides a purchase.
interesting you should be used to this on PCs. Incorrect patches of servers, custom content on servers that need to be downloaded often with broken auto-downloading (or none!), some admins are downright horrible. Granted some games have begun to address this stuff (auto-patching).
I play PC games a lot, I have been through it.
Their pay-to-play plan is going to be interesting to hear about. This is an opportunity to turn things around or crash and burn. People will NOT tolerate paying for Friend Codes and such shit.
Once you hit the internet, it's all downhil.
When I think about Nintendo's online service this image always comes to mind.
But then, really, they fail at even that basic level of communication.
so you are more about talking then gameplay? seems a bit strange.
The most irritating thing is the friend codes. Outside of that, I don't really think the Nintendo WFC really needs all the bells and whistles like voice chat and whatnot. It just needs to be not a pain in the ass.
Yeah? Then maybe I'll go through and mangle with some Friends Codes (egh) and see how it is. Hopefully, I won't have to destroy my ISA server to get the Wii's internets working right.
2) Realize that Nintendo's service is a) FREE and in Smash it's like 1% of the time you'll actually be in online mode. If you want more, pay for Live.
3) Realize that pretty much only Halo 2 and Halo 3 have usable online interfaces and every game fails in comparison to their implementation so you should pretty much deal with it until developers start using the party system and not failing at it.
4) After playing on Xbox Live for about 4 years, no voice in Smash is a damn godsend. All anyone uses it for is trashtalking.
It's like they listened to Jack Thompson.
I don't think Nintendo's not aware of the other (read: good) ways of handling online, they just really believe that what they're doing is the best option for maintaining the family-friendly atmosphere they've got going, and that the functionality sacrifices are worth the trade off.
I think people overlook one thing. Why is Nintendo the only company that has that stupid warning message before all their games now? Because some moron sued them about their child getting seizures (even though it is all over the box and in the manuals). From what I have seen over the years, they have gotten a lot of these lawsuits thrown at them and have had to make so many adjustments to accommodate these people. I think the same applies here. Although, that still doesn't explain why wii system code isn't just used as a universal code (it only applies to messages and wiiconnect24 utilizations).
Ugh.
I'm not about to give up my Wii. I'm still playing bowling after all this time, I'm workin on the last 15 stars of Mario Galaxy and doin all I can to unlock friggin Wolf in Smash Bros. The sad fact though is my experience with Brawl's online play leaves me with such low expectations for future titles that I'm more akin to thinking twice before buying a game whose primary draw would be the online play. In the case of a new Mario Kart, adding new characters and a few maps really doesn't pull me in. Online playability normally would.
I'm a seasoned gamer, turned amateur reviewer, so I think I can tell when an element has been slapped onto a title and that's exactly what net play in Brawl feels like. As was said before, I can live without voice and I can understand *some* connectivity issues at launch, but to require yet ANOTHER multi-digit nonsensical number in order to add a friend is just lazy. You've already implemented a friend system, make use of it!
Furthermore, if you're going to announce some kind of pay-per-play tier system with regard to online multiplayer, you better damn well make sure you've actually got a quality product people are willing to pay for. If tomorrow Reggie came out and said they would charge for the ability to play online, even if it were 2 bucks a month, I wouldn't bother. There's zero incentive.
Then again, I always end up writing that stuff off as a business expense...but still, my point is valid.
1) I bought tons of games due to their online modes, and have gotten tons of enjoyment out of them. I love playing online with my friends, it's the closestI can get to reliving old time with all of us in the couch.
2) PS2 and PS3's services are free too, and are still better than this.
3) No. Halo 2 and 3 have exemplary online interfaces. I'm not wanting that. I'm just desiring serviceble ones.
4) I enjoy voice chat. I would at least like to have the option.
There's also the fact that not having accounts saves them a lot of money as they don't have to pay techs or a call center to handle account problems. Friend Codes allow them to not run an authenication server, saving even more money. Hey, it's free.
It's honestly not a safety issue - the safety side is just a nice bonus. It's really "hey, people wanted free, they're going to get free. kthnxbye".
There's also the issue that VOIP is not cheap bandwidth wise. Hell, even in Halo 3 they disable being able to hear/talk to the other team via proxy voice in ranked games to reduce lag, and in ranked Free For All voice is completely disabled.
Live actually lets you report people for cheating and they actually get banned and don't come back
What about PS2 and PS3 online? They're free, and perfectly serviceable.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
And you can report cheating that occurs in Starcraft. Took me hardly any time to find this.
You're kidding right? Surely. At the risk of feeding the troll, dude, you're living in a hole.
1) Online playability is a major factor in any game marketed as multiplayer. For my money, a title has to have one hell of an outstanding story, graphics and gameplay for me to consider its purchase if it lacks multiplayer, on or offline. Online has been important since Quake. (God, did I just date myself?).
2) Realize that Smash Bros is unique. A 'casual' style fighter that's never had an online equal. It screams online capabilities and I'd likely wager that without the online promise, it wouldn't have sold 1.4 million copies.
3) Get over Halo. I loves me my Master Chief as much as the next gamer, but dozens of other highly successful online games have implemented excellent matchmaking and 'party' style online matches. Xbox live games are shining examples, as are COD, Burnout, any given Tom Clancy game, hell even Lego Star Wars. Try stepping away from Bungie for two minutes to see just how sheltered you are.
4) See point 3. Granted, voice communication can suck. Theres a black sheep in every crowd, either in the form of an 8 year old that talks like a 95 year old drunken New York cabbie or the stoner who uses chat as his own personal American Idol. Still, there would be no team games without voice comm. No coordination, no strategy. You might as well be playing free for all. Voice comm is integral and it's only a matter of time before Nintendo really sees through their self imposed shelter and reels backwards to get it working on their system.
Of course it's also to cover their asses and keep their 'family-friendly' persona. People can get up in arms over the smallest thing(Pictochat lols, obviously an extreme example but yeah.)
Basically, Nintendo's system is set up with the assumption that you only want to play intimately with your friends online, instead of making connections with strangers online like via Xbox Live. This is how I use it, and as such, it really does not bother me. It seems most people prefer the latter though, and in that case, it does fall completely flat.
I don't really think that's fair. Even a slight amount of lag makes Smash Bros somewhat unplayable online in any serious sense, and thus it's an experience that simply isn't up to the level of quality that Nintendo pretty much guarantees with a big release like Brawl. You can't really justify it with "it's free so it's okay if it's kind of shitty;" with a game like SSBB, I would gladly consider a small fee to get a really solid, feature-rich online experience. As it stands, I'm not really provided a viable online multiplayer option, which is becoming unacceptable in the world of Halo 3 and what not. Hell, Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence had a much better online system on the PS2 when it came out two years ago. The fact of the matter is, people want online play, and Nintendo should not be gimping it in the name of a "family-friendly" experience or simply because they think that it's not important. And it's not just about Smash Bros, either; DS wi-fi play is just as much of a pain in the ass. It's disorganized, and there's hardly any incentive to do it when it means punching in friend codes that may not even matter to you in a month or so. The one exception I can think of is Pokemon Diamond and Pearl, which managed voice chat and some really solid multiplayer options, and not all of them required friend codes.
I mean, it's nice that, even if shitty, the option is there and it's free, but in the end, it's not really enough with the 360, PS3, and PSP providing the competition.
To a degree, you're right. As compared to the U.S. the percentage of owners to internet players (console-wise) in Japan is pretty low. Still, the study I read showed that about 55% of Wii owners connect online to purchase games and browse the net for their freaky porn. About 49% of Japanese 360 owners connect to the net to play online.
Like I said, nothing compared to the U.S., at least I'm assuming. That said though, those are still some healthy percentages, certainly nothing for the Big N to balk at.
Nintendo's service is for playing with friends. Not for finding friends, playing with them. Nothing's going to change within this span of consoles either, for better (stop wishing for download content or patching godammit) or for worse (stop fucking thinking the pay-to-play's going to apply to friend codes). WFC is a bare bones, cheap as possible system that Nintendo put together when the outlook on their business was grim and so they didn't dare waste money on something at most 25% (that's being generous) of the user base would use.
Also, as others have mentioned, Nintendo gets fucking reamed whenever anything bad happens anywhere close to them. Seizure lawsuit, Pictochat will molest your children scare, Wiimote-through-TV bullshit, you name it. Microsoft and Sony get away scott free compared to Nintendo. For example, imagine if that Xbox Live stalker was using a Nintendo service (assuming said service was Live quality) instead? Nintendo would have been roasted by the media with cries of "think of our children" and other bullshittery. This is because they're a "family" company whereas Microsoft's a faceless monolith and Live's portrayed as college kids' domain and if they do things that are bad people shrug it off because, hey, it's just Microsoft being evil again.
I did read an interview on IGN with Sakurai saying he envisioned SSB online to have voice chat (the lacking feature that bothers me most) between friends but found that it wouldn't work with Nintendo policies. If some devs want it, I hope that could influence Nintendo later on.
How many times have you heard a parent say that their children are playing Nintendo, when in actuality they're on an xbox or other console? I hear it a lot.
Even so, to compete for the same market share, family friendly outlook or not, they've got to offer comparable products. A lot of what you're saying makes sense, but Nintendo has money to burn too. The DS is a perfect example of risk taken by the company. There was a time when Nintendo was THE benchmark to which all gaming consoles and titles were raised up to. They didn't get that way by being scared to spend gobs of money on new technology (coughVirtualBoycough). And we're not even talking about new tech. I doubt there's a significant risk. The success has been proven dozens of times over, online play is where it's at. Voice chat is where it's at. Gamers want to connect online and in the same living room.
win.
Something tells me their experience with WoW will have a huge impact on SCII's online play. I expect nothing but good things.
I can complete see why other people who don't fit into this very specific category are upset.