The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
I don't know what to do (friend issues)
alteration
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Let me preface this by saying that I know the solution is to seek therapy, and probably as soon as possible. I don't really know what I'm looking for here. Anything, really. Maybe I just need to air my feelings.
I'm going to skip a lot of detail because it's too painful to even think about, but I have this female friend. We started out as coworkers. I got fired from my position at that company but we stayed in contact and generally grew into a pretty close friendship. The key thing here is that we trusted each other and confided many things in each other that we didn't confide in others.
Mind you, none of this was "intimate" in a sexual or romantic sense. It was all...life stuff. I felt very comfortable sharing things with her and she felt very comfortable sharing things with me. She said as much and I believe her. I had her trust and respect.
Anyway, she got married last year and since then I've felt her slipping away. I assumed this was because she was busy moving and settling into her life. I was going through a real rough patch in my life for other reasons and I guess I felt like she didn't make much of an effort to be there for me. I mean, I expected her to be somewhat busy but I expected her to be there for me at least a little more than she was. I never communicated this to her so I let it fester inside me and poison me for awhile. I guess I built up some level of resentment without realizing it and it kind of attached to me like an anchor. I thought I was pretty good at hiding the way I felt but I guess not.
So without getting into specifics, because the whole thing was stupid and involved a fucking lunch invitation, we basically get into a discussion about how "things have been weird" lately and how the relationship was making her feel uncomfortable. Ahh the dreaded word. She said that things were too "dramatic" for her right now and that she can't "handle" it right now. Since then things have dried up relatively quickly and she's giving me the silent treatment. There's more too this but I'd rather not put too much detail here because I don't want to betray her trust by sharing too much about her on the 'net, even if you don't personally know her (or me, I hope, hence the alt account).
I should note, before people make suggestions to the contrary, that her husband and I got along really well. I don't think there's any kind of weirdness in that respect. She has other male friends. He has female friends. There was never any, not even the slightest, romantic awkwardness (or interaction) between us. None at all...that is absolutely not what this is about.
The problem is pretty significant though. I trusted her. Which is rare. I don't trust anyone. I'm a very social person but as far as my real stuff, my personal stuff is concerned, I don't let anyone in. But I trusted her completely and entirely. Thoroughly. What's more, though, is that she seemed to trust me. And then that seemed to disappear. She no longer confided anything in me. She no longer told me anything. She no longer made much of an effort to communicate with me. We had plans to "hang out" for about three months and she kept cancelling and rescheduling. When I said "it's okay, I understand" she said "you're so understanding." So why is she surprised when, after this kept continuing, I became less understanding and showed it? I was doing miserable for awhile. I know, my burdens are mine to shoulder, but was I being too much of an asshole to expect a little comfort and a little understanding as we provided for each other so long ago? And it's not like she was telling me much about her life so if there was some reason she couldn't "handle" my stuff, I didn't know what it was. Also, I reconnected with someone I knew from college long ago. Apparently this person has some drama not with my friend but with my friend's friends. She said that my increasing friendship with this other person "turned her off a bit" and said "I'm just trying to be loyal to my friends." What kind of shit is that? What about some loyalty to me? This friend never did anything to her, she wasn't there for me very much, and this person at least gave me the slight bit of attention and validation that I needed. I'm not going to get into specifics here but I am pretty sure I've sufficiently proven my loyalty to my friend. If she doesn't feel that way by now, there's nothing more I can do.
Essentially, this is how I feel. I had a close friend who has decided, for some unexplained or insufficient reason, to cut me out of her life. She said, before all this, that if we "take a step back we can get back to somewhere where we will feel comfortable again." Maybe she will, but I don't see how I can. Every day is a torturous cycle of the following feelings in random order: anger, regret, guilt, betrayal, annoyance, paranoia, and even devastation. I am very, very hurt by all this. I rarely let my shield down, even if I seem very outgoing and pleasant, and it takes a LOT for someone to matter to me. I feel so betrayed and upset that, beyond the anguish, I am not entirely sure I will ever be able to trust anyone to this degree again. Maybe that seems overdramatic but I'm paranoid by nature. It really takes a lot for me to trust someone.
My very few attempts to communicate with her, even briefly, have been met with a brick wall. A part of me doesn't want to burden her with any of this but a part of me feels I am owed some kind of justification for being treated like I don't exist when we had a relatively happy friendship even months ago. We had plans to hang out on New Years (which fell through) and then plans to go out the week after which is when things started to go sour. She even told me that I did nothing wrong. Well, that makes me feel even worse. What's worse? Knowing that I fucked up somehow? Or knowing that your friend decides to abandon you for no good reason, or through no fault of your own?
I don't know what I'm looking for here. I have no one I can trust anymore and I feel completely crushed, devastated, and a complete mess. I am doing my best to hide it but...I can't hide things from myself all that well. I can't tell her and even if I did I'm sure I'd just push her further away with no answer.
I know you are only getting my side of this, but that's all I can provide. I wish I could provide her side. I wish SHE would provide her side. To me. I just want to understand why I've gone from "close friend" to "ignored person" in such a short span of time. I just cannot deal with this anymore. Not in the suicidal sense but in the "my life is surreal" kind of sense. Honestly, half the time I feel like I might wake up from a nightmare, that if I pinch myself hard enough, with enough pain and fury, that I might shock myself back into a reality I can deal with. I feel...well, no longer valid. I had some kind of acceptance from her and validation and now I feel slapped in the face. The other half of the time I feel like karma is catching up to me. I've thrown people away too, but even so I don't think I've ever done it to someone I had a mutual connection or closeness with.
Another thing. Less than a year ago, when we were both going through stuff, she said "I promise I'll never 'go away'." I think that's ironic considering that's exactly what she's done now.
Ugh. I just don't know what to do.
I'm going to skip a lot of detail because it's too painful to even think about, but I have this female friend. We started out as coworkers. I got fired from my position at that company but we stayed in contact and generally grew into a pretty close friendship. The key thing here is that we trusted each other and confided many things in each other that we didn't confide in others.
Mind you, none of this was "intimate" in a sexual or romantic sense. It was all...life stuff. I felt very comfortable sharing things with her and she felt very comfortable sharing things with me. She said as much and I believe her. I had her trust and respect.
Anyway, she got married last year and since then I've felt her slipping away. I assumed this was because she was busy moving and settling into her life. I was going through a real rough patch in my life for other reasons and I guess I felt like she didn't make much of an effort to be there for me. I mean, I expected her to be somewhat busy but I expected her to be there for me at least a little more than she was. I never communicated this to her so I let it fester inside me and poison me for awhile. I guess I built up some level of resentment without realizing it and it kind of attached to me like an anchor. I thought I was pretty good at hiding the way I felt but I guess not.
So without getting into specifics, because the whole thing was stupid and involved a fucking lunch invitation, we basically get into a discussion about how "things have been weird" lately and how the relationship was making her feel uncomfortable. Ahh the dreaded word. She said that things were too "dramatic" for her right now and that she can't "handle" it right now. Since then things have dried up relatively quickly and she's giving me the silent treatment. There's more too this but I'd rather not put too much detail here because I don't want to betray her trust by sharing too much about her on the 'net, even if you don't personally know her (or me, I hope, hence the alt account).
I should note, before people make suggestions to the contrary, that her husband and I got along really well. I don't think there's any kind of weirdness in that respect. She has other male friends. He has female friends. There was never any, not even the slightest, romantic awkwardness (or interaction) between us. None at all...that is absolutely not what this is about.
The problem is pretty significant though. I trusted her. Which is rare. I don't trust anyone. I'm a very social person but as far as my real stuff, my personal stuff is concerned, I don't let anyone in. But I trusted her completely and entirely. Thoroughly. What's more, though, is that she seemed to trust me. And then that seemed to disappear. She no longer confided anything in me. She no longer told me anything. She no longer made much of an effort to communicate with me. We had plans to "hang out" for about three months and she kept cancelling and rescheduling. When I said "it's okay, I understand" she said "you're so understanding." So why is she surprised when, after this kept continuing, I became less understanding and showed it? I was doing miserable for awhile. I know, my burdens are mine to shoulder, but was I being too much of an asshole to expect a little comfort and a little understanding as we provided for each other so long ago? And it's not like she was telling me much about her life so if there was some reason she couldn't "handle" my stuff, I didn't know what it was. Also, I reconnected with someone I knew from college long ago. Apparently this person has some drama not with my friend but with my friend's friends. She said that my increasing friendship with this other person "turned her off a bit" and said "I'm just trying to be loyal to my friends." What kind of shit is that? What about some loyalty to me? This friend never did anything to her, she wasn't there for me very much, and this person at least gave me the slight bit of attention and validation that I needed. I'm not going to get into specifics here but I am pretty sure I've sufficiently proven my loyalty to my friend. If she doesn't feel that way by now, there's nothing more I can do.
Essentially, this is how I feel. I had a close friend who has decided, for some unexplained or insufficient reason, to cut me out of her life. She said, before all this, that if we "take a step back we can get back to somewhere where we will feel comfortable again." Maybe she will, but I don't see how I can. Every day is a torturous cycle of the following feelings in random order: anger, regret, guilt, betrayal, annoyance, paranoia, and even devastation. I am very, very hurt by all this. I rarely let my shield down, even if I seem very outgoing and pleasant, and it takes a LOT for someone to matter to me. I feel so betrayed and upset that, beyond the anguish, I am not entirely sure I will ever be able to trust anyone to this degree again. Maybe that seems overdramatic but I'm paranoid by nature. It really takes a lot for me to trust someone.
My very few attempts to communicate with her, even briefly, have been met with a brick wall. A part of me doesn't want to burden her with any of this but a part of me feels I am owed some kind of justification for being treated like I don't exist when we had a relatively happy friendship even months ago. We had plans to hang out on New Years (which fell through) and then plans to go out the week after which is when things started to go sour. She even told me that I did nothing wrong. Well, that makes me feel even worse. What's worse? Knowing that I fucked up somehow? Or knowing that your friend decides to abandon you for no good reason, or through no fault of your own?
I don't know what I'm looking for here. I have no one I can trust anymore and I feel completely crushed, devastated, and a complete mess. I am doing my best to hide it but...I can't hide things from myself all that well. I can't tell her and even if I did I'm sure I'd just push her further away with no answer.
I know you are only getting my side of this, but that's all I can provide. I wish I could provide her side. I wish SHE would provide her side. To me. I just want to understand why I've gone from "close friend" to "ignored person" in such a short span of time. I just cannot deal with this anymore. Not in the suicidal sense but in the "my life is surreal" kind of sense. Honestly, half the time I feel like I might wake up from a nightmare, that if I pinch myself hard enough, with enough pain and fury, that I might shock myself back into a reality I can deal with. I feel...well, no longer valid. I had some kind of acceptance from her and validation and now I feel slapped in the face. The other half of the time I feel like karma is catching up to me. I've thrown people away too, but even so I don't think I've ever done it to someone I had a mutual connection or closeness with.
Another thing. Less than a year ago, when we were both going through stuff, she said "I promise I'll never 'go away'." I think that's ironic considering that's exactly what she's done now.
Ugh. I just don't know what to do.
alteration on
0
Posts
If so, thats life man. Friends come and go. When friends get married, shit changes. You can't expect her to be the exact same way, because she is not. She is married, has a husband now she needs to look after and you want her to be the same way as she was when she was single.
You haven't been abandoned, its just you taking this a whole new level then it already is. Worry about yourself and your feelings, not other's feelings about you.
We also used to communicate with each other during work hours (chat, email) and that seemed to go away.
It's not as simple as her not spending time with me anymore, though that was a part of it. It's about her just not seeming to give a shit.
Though I think you are right in that I need to stop caring what she thinks, but it really was a close friendship and she said the "I'm not going to go away" thing way after she got married.
It's just confusing. Honestly, though, I feel better after getting it all out here...I have no outlet really in my life.
Ok cool, what you just said makes alot more sense, understanding when you need to vent, it may come out wrong.
I know lots of friends who have seemingly "moved away" after a marriage. They don't call much if not anymore and just frankly kind of drift away. It sucks, but it seems to be pretty common. She probably doesn't see a difference in your two relationship, but you certainly are. That will be the main thing to come across and she will most likely get defensive that nothing has changed when it has.
I know it isn't the best feeling in the world, but perhaps you just need to move away from her and when she is ready to talk to you and be friends, she will. If she doesn't, then she never was a true friend and more of a "fair weather" friend, if there is such a kind.
Nothing too complicated about that, really.
My advice here is to let it go, and find a new friend. If you push it, it will get much, much worse - in fact, you kinda pushed it already and it did get worse. Move on while things are still amiable; she has a new confidant, you need a new one too.
This sounds pretty rough.
Personally, I think you need to let this one go. In relationships and in friendships, we often use the 'forever' word. And we do honestly mean it at the time. Then, things change and we realise we can't uphold that or don't feel the same way later on. Some people think of that as lying or betrayal, others just think its a part of life. There's probably some truth in both. We should all probably use the 'forever' word a lot less.
Marriage changes a lot of things. She probably feels caught between the close friendship you had and the secrets you shared and the knowledge that socially, she is expected to share those secrets of hers with her husband as well, or feel guilty. Two people living with each other and in a marriage naturally develop hundreds of tiny "secrets" between each other. I would feel very torn if I had such a friendship and was also married....
Not everything is about romantic intimacy... I am glad you made it clear there was none in your original post, but a lot of people (myself included) find it very difficult to separate intimacy in an emotional sense from intimacy in a romantic sense. Not saying you or your friend had those kind of feelings for one another, its just that when in a marriage you can feel guilty for being emotionally attached to anything outside the marriage, regardless of whether your partner says anything or cares. I think its one of the bad things about our social expectations in this society.
I don't want to be hypocritical, I have left friends for their extreme drama because I couldn't take it, too. But I also think that some people use the 'you cause drama' phrase when they don't want to face an issue or want to deflect blame for a situation. Sometimes, the way we react to things (and get dramatic) can drastically affect our friendships. It's up to you whether you want to be 'low drama' or just find new friends. I think its important that you find the balance between giving a damn about people that you know and things that happen, and making sure you don't overreact.
This is the help and advice forum so how about I shut up on opinion and offer some advice.... you sound like someone who has a lot to give to a friendship. I respect, admire and seek people with deep emotional investment in their friends, myself. I think you should let this girl go her way, spend some time recovering from the loss, regain your self confidence and understand that you are worthy. Friendships are not like relationship hunting so I think that you should just rebuild your confidence within yourself and be happy without a deep friendship for now. If something comes along with another friend in the future, then great, but this time be careful with the "forever" platitudes and just enjoy the connection while it lasts.
For a while, we went back to the way it used to be but then she drifted away again. I freaked out (less badly this time) again, she apologized again then drifted away again. By this time though, I'd lost my dependency on her. True, we had an awesome connection and I haven't felt that way with anyone since then but I had been without it for so long that I eventually just got used to not having her around. Nowadays, we always make plans to meet up during holidays but when we do, I know in the back of my head she's not going to follow through with it and I think she knows it too. Surprisingly, there are no ill feelings for either one of us. We just learned to do without each other. No special ending here. It just kinda faded out and that was that.
So I'm echoing the sentiment of "people change, life goes on" because it's true. And while some relationships are worth working hard at for, it sounds like you're the only one working. I've been there too and I'll tell you right now, it doesn't work. Let it go, learn to live without it. Maybe she'll yearn for the closeness again one day and you two will reconnect. And maybe she won't and you'll move on.
I think most people are the same in terms of their trust. They don't hand that shit out like it's free sample Sunday at the supermarket. And I know it must hurt to have decided that this one person deserved your trust and your closeness, have it affirmed that she was a good choice but then ultimately have her crap out. Well I don't think this'll be the last time it happens. Hopefully it doesn't happen too often but it might. People are unreliable. They're gonna let you down. Even when you're super careful with who you let in, you'll sometimes judge them wrong.
I wouldn't worry about whether she was the wrong choice or not. You had a really great time while it lasted but now it seems like it's over. Leave it alone then. When you're the only one trying to salvage the relationship, you're going to fail. She's got to want it too and right now, she doesn't sound like she's trying. Maybe she will if you go away entirely. Or maybe she'll let it go too and that'll be the end of that.
So from an advice perspective, I would suggest that you really look at whether maintaining this relationship in its current state is something that will benefit you in any way. You probably can't go back to the way you were, and the current state seems to be making you miserable. It sounds like you should try to move on, even though it sucks. Look to your own happiness/sanity and use that to figure out how to approach the situation.
You seem dependant on her, and that's weird. She probably senses that, and that's why she's giving you the cold shoulder. Guys who hang on to a female friend even after she's married and expect the same relationship are weird.
It sucks, but that friendship is gone. She's moved on. The longer you choose not to move on, the creepier it gets.
Thank you for the response, but this is BS. I don't know if that's how she feels - it may very well be - but it is not a hard and fast rule by any means. And I can attest to this myself as my other really good friend, my best friend as a matter of fact, is also married and has been for five years. And we're still excellent friends. I didn't mention this friend in my first post because I thought it was irrelevant but actually now I think you triggered something. A part of how I feel is knowing that this exact kind of relationship should not be weird, not at all, because I have another one exactly like it. Granted, I've known this other girl since college, but whatever.
Telling me I'm creepy because I had a very close friend and confidant that I wanted to keep is pretty stupid. That she is female is entirely irrelevant. That she is married may not be: the beginning of your post has merit...she may have just decided that she has someone else to confide in now and she doesn't want that with me anymore. I don't know. But I'm not creepy. Christ.
You were friends. People's friendships change and sometimes stop when the people involved change. Calm down, let yourself be sad and annoyed that your friendship seems to have ended for a little while, but quit with the devastation, betrayal, and paranoia. Work on making new friends, and be aware that you can enjoy a friendship and be close to someone without making plans on forever. It's a cliche, but "that's life" holds particularly true.
It is kinda weird for a guy's two best friends to be married women.
I never said you were creepy, but that's where this is headed if you don't get ahold of yourself. This woman has said she doesn't feel comfortable with your friendship right now. So what? There could be a ton of reasons. Maybe she doesn't like you anymore, maybe you two have drifted apart, maybe her husband thinks having a guy as her best friend is weird.
But as long as you're obsessing about it, justifying all of your points, and seeking approval from her, you will come off like the ex who just won't get a clue.
Give her space, let her contact you when she's ready to be the kind of friend you need her to be. Maybe she'll want that, maybe she won't. Put the ball in her court and walk away.
Like the others, I have a really good friend, who I had a close relationship. We talked about anything and everything, and I was always there for her. Then I realized that she had the habit of 1)Ignoring me when she got into a new relationship and 2)Never really asking about my life.
After some thought (and lots, lots of thought) I just withdrew a bit from the friendship. Don't put as much effort as I used to, and just try not to dwell on it. We still talk, and I still think of her as a friend, but we're not as close as we used to be.
It sucks and sometimes it does make me wish we could back to how we were, but that's life.
The way I dealt with these situations was to just step back and not deal with the person anymore. I'm not saying this an ideal solution for you (in fact I feel pretty bad about doing this myself) but its an option. You just need to push on from this, thats what I've learnt.
Doing something you enjoy will take your mind off it. I guarantee it.