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Where are the real tactical RPGs?
TurnpikeLad
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
The first and only tactical RPG I played was Final Fantasy Tactics. (Unless you count Ogre Battle.) It was a great game but I was only half on board with it.
Why? Because I felt it was too simple. Not the enjoyable plot, but the battle system itself. I had a great time with it, and it was indeed very deep. But playing that game got me thinking. It wasn't half deep enough.
From reading reviews and hearing people talk about them on boards, I get the impression that in comparison to the tactical RPGs that have come out since, FFT is the tactician's tactics game. I get the impression that the tactical RPGs that followed it are by and large simpler and less rules-intense. I'm no gearhead, but I lament the direction in which things have gone.
The game I'm thinking of would be similar in depth to an old pen-and-paper game. It'd be a turn-based, grid-based TRPG, but each turn would be more like a turn in Civilization than a turn in Fire Emblem. Using the terrain well would be an instrumental part of a winning strategy. Each character would be extensively customizable, and there would be some kind of advancement tree but much more complex than what we see in Ogre Battle for instance.
Basically I want a tactical RPG that gives me the same sense of rightness as looking through an old, yellowed manual to find Thac0 rates for a +1 kris. I want reams of pencil-on-parchment tooltips appearing when I right-click on an enemy footsoldier. I want a western developer and a literary, nuanced plotline.
..Being set in a super-rich, gritty fantasy world that's way bigger then your own story, like that of the Malazan Book of the Fallen, wouldn't hurt either.
Why? Because I felt it was too simple. Not the enjoyable plot, but the battle system itself. I had a great time with it, and it was indeed very deep. But playing that game got me thinking. It wasn't half deep enough.
From reading reviews and hearing people talk about them on boards, I get the impression that in comparison to the tactical RPGs that have come out since, FFT is the tactician's tactics game. I get the impression that the tactical RPGs that followed it are by and large simpler and less rules-intense. I'm no gearhead, but I lament the direction in which things have gone.
The game I'm thinking of would be similar in depth to an old pen-and-paper game. It'd be a turn-based, grid-based TRPG, but each turn would be more like a turn in Civilization than a turn in Fire Emblem. Using the terrain well would be an instrumental part of a winning strategy. Each character would be extensively customizable, and there would be some kind of advancement tree but much more complex than what we see in Ogre Battle for instance.
Basically I want a tactical RPG that gives me the same sense of rightness as looking through an old, yellowed manual to find Thac0 rates for a +1 kris. I want reams of pencil-on-parchment tooltips appearing when I right-click on an enemy footsoldier. I want a western developer and a literary, nuanced plotline.
..Being set in a super-rich, gritty fantasy world that's way bigger then your own story, like that of the Malazan Book of the Fallen, wouldn't hurt either.
TurnpikeLad on
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You have to physically program each and every one of your units.
While reading I got the idea that you wanted some sort of Dungeons and Dragons Tactics, but then I remembered that there is in fact a D&D Tactics for the PSP and it doesn't sound like what you want. The old SNES/Genesis Shadowrun games would fit fairly well if you'd be willing to sacrifice the turn-based aspect. *shrug*
It sounds to me like you'd be the type to enjoy some sort of 360-brand roguelike.
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Oo\ Ironsizide
How was Jeanne D'Arc?
It was a buggy game at release but with the official patch and the fanpatches, it's mostly fixed up and completely playable. It's not an incredibly game role-playing and story-wise, but its combat is fantastic. You mentioned the feel of an old tabletop game, and ToEE is the most accurate and comprehensive adaptation of the D&D ruleset to a computer game.
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Also, I'm psychotic.
Also, it's not very nuanced and subtle at all.
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Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Front Mission is the other series that might grab you. Armored Core level customisation mission based gameplay, the third has two campaigns to play through as well. Front Mission 3 on the PSX is usually considered the best in the series and the original got a remake on DS. Front Mission 4 is on the PS2. I think they're all somewhat rareish these days bar the DS one.
Neither of these exactly matches what you're asking for, but they're the closest I can think of.
As far as depth goes, it uses exactly the same RPG system as the Fallout games use, which is in of itself complete and theoretically playable as a tabletop game.
Ugh, I actually got my hands on a copy a year or so ago and I have no reservations saying that it's enjoyable in the least. Fallout's combat wasn't very exciting to begin with, but then someone had the brilliant idea of basing a whole game around it? Great.
It might just be that I'm not really very fond of the SPECIAL system, but Silent Storm, Jagged Alliance 2, and X-Com are much, much better games. They do the same things Fallout Tactics does combat-wise. But better.
I'd second (or third, there've been more mentions of it) this one. As mentioned, the interface is extremely off-putting, but it's fun if you can get past that.
Also, the Front Mission games. I really enjoyed 4, it may be right up your alley.
I would have finished Tactics Ogre though, if I ever could have found a copy of it.
I think my favorite part was
There was another equally disturbing/hilarious moment in the second story arc too.
Fallout Tactics has to be played multiplayer to be appreciated. It doesn't have the AI for an enjoyable single player campaign.
But the pure sex of what is essentially 2 to 8 player real time jagged alliance in the fallout universe is really too good to explain in words. Its amazing. No other game I've played in its entire genre has mutliplayer to any real degree.
I absolutely loathed the game untill I tried it over LAN. My opinion completely changed instantly.
Hordes of wardogs and deathclaws that tear your enemies to shreds in melee? Check.
Ambushes with traps and heavy machine gunners lying in wait? Check.
Human bombs loaded with explosives rushing into enemy lines? Check.
OD'ing your whole team on Psycho before the match starts and having them lying around for half a minute before you can move up? Check.
e: Except for the "RPG" part, shit. Still a great tactical game, though.
Well, you know what they* say. If you can't find, build it.
I do second Battle for Wesnoth. It's pretty nifty, and has ESR attached. Basically, that means that I know I can exit the game by typing the string ':wg'. Heh.
I thought most strategy/tac gamers preferred hexes to grids, anyway? Something about the way they help in deciding things like unit facing, some size issues and such.
Something turned me off to Wesnoth, but I'm not sure what.
How the computer can give you a sound thrashing if it gets even a little lucky?
How the tip for beating this last mission was 'use teleport to hit and run'. Uh. Yeah; I'll get on that. Now, if a mage with teleport could actually move after attacking... that would be interesting. Sadly, no such luck.
Lots of little things, but a good game over all.
I actually thought the customization was rather shallow. You just pick a weapon type (there are only three, so that won't take long) to specialize in and equip the best stuff you can find.
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Except for Infinity engine RPGs, I lurved me some of those.
I have Silent Storm and ToEE sitting here for the past 6 months and I've only played around for maybe an hour with each of them. Just seems like too much effort.
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I would definitely recommend Jagged Alliance 2. The map screen is real-time (pausable), but the actual gameplay is like Fallout, real-time when there are no enemies around and turn-based when combat starts. Very enjoyable game.
But I don't think that's really what this guy wants; it's a little light on the RPG/fantasy side.
Probably can't even find it anymore, though.
Remember how in FFT you could give each character different items and skills and distribute each character's points differently to push them into different classes? Remember how in Ogre Battle various factors made your ALI and CHA rise and fall and you had to be very careful so so that later you could change into a certain class? Remember how in XCOM you could choose between different types of attacks with the same weapon, and choose your stance at the end of the turn?
I want MORE of this kind of stuff, not less.
Oo\ Ironsizide
I love the whole SRPG genre, but I haven't played one that I've really liked in at least a decade. Hopefully FFTA2 will have something.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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