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Gamasutra's Japanese RPG Primer - The Essential 20
RainbowDespair
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Someone briefly mentioned this in another thread, but I thought it was worth its own thread. Gamasutra recently released an article called A Japanese RPG Primer: The Essential 20.
Here's the link: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3581/a_japanese_rpg_primer_the_.php?page=1
In the article they talk about 20 of what they consider the most noteworthy JRPGs in gameplay and/or story. With the exception of the Final Fantasy series, each main series was limited to the single best game (in their opinion) of that series. Also, related games are discussed on each game's page (so the Grandia page mentions the Lunar series in a positive light). Strategy/RPGs and Action/RPGs are intentionally left out so as to keep their focus tightly on turn-based RPGs.
In the order that they have listed (i.e. no particular order):
Valkyrie Profile
Final Fantasy 4,6,7 (yeah, I think it's cheating that they grouped these three together)
Xenogears
Chrono Trigger
Shadow Hearts: Covenant
Persona 3
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
Final Fantasy 8
Earthbound
Grandia
Final Fantasy XII
Dragon Quest V
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Final Fantasy X
Skies of Arcadia
Chrono Chross
Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium
Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter
Suikoden II
Final Fantasy V
Personally, I would have expanded it to a full 25 games (count FF4,6,7 as separate entries, add Lufia 2, Pokemon, and maybe Wild Arms 4), but otherwise, I thought it was a very good list with a lot of good discussion about each game.
Here's the link: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3581/a_japanese_rpg_primer_the_.php?page=1
In the article they talk about 20 of what they consider the most noteworthy JRPGs in gameplay and/or story. With the exception of the Final Fantasy series, each main series was limited to the single best game (in their opinion) of that series. Also, related games are discussed on each game's page (so the Grandia page mentions the Lunar series in a positive light). Strategy/RPGs and Action/RPGs are intentionally left out so as to keep their focus tightly on turn-based RPGs.
In the order that they have listed (i.e. no particular order):
Valkyrie Profile
Final Fantasy 4,6,7 (yeah, I think it's cheating that they grouped these three together)
Xenogears
Chrono Trigger
Shadow Hearts: Covenant
Persona 3
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
Final Fantasy 8
Earthbound
Grandia
Final Fantasy XII
Dragon Quest V
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Final Fantasy X
Skies of Arcadia
Chrono Chross
Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium
Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter
Suikoden II
Final Fantasy V
Personally, I would have expanded it to a full 25 games (count FF4,6,7 as separate entries, add Lufia 2, Pokemon, and maybe Wild Arms 4), but otherwise, I thought it was a very good list with a lot of good discussion about each game.
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edit: Cross over Trigger hey? RISKY
Trigger is on there, too.
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Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire,
One of these days I'll see what all this fuss over Persona 3 is about.
Edit: Beaten to Snarkyness.
Warrior | Mage
I didn't realize FF XII was on there. I sort of consider that as an action game, but I'm not Japanese so I guess I don't know. If it does count, then put Secret of Mana on that list please. Thank you.
Every fights a food fight when you're a cannibal.
Well, it wasn't just a list. I thought the discussion for each game was well done and did a good job of saying why they chose that particular game for the list.
The main reason I would have put WA4 on the list and not one of the other ones was because WA4 introduced the series' hex battle system which I thought did a marvelous job of adding both strategy and fun to the standard JRPG battle format.
Totally forgot about Super Mario RPG. Yeah, it's deserving of a mention. Saga Frontier is the poster child for great ideas executed horribly wrong (although I did enjoy Saga Frontier despite its flaws) so I'm not sure that it's deserving of a nod.
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire,
I never asked for this!
First of all, the "No action-RPGs" and "No strat-RPGs" thing is total bull because so many RPGs, including some on this list, mix genres. Valkyrie Profile has platformer elements, SMT: Nocturne has monster collecting, and while FF12 isn't an action-RPG, it's often close enough to one that it begs the question why others weren't considered.
And even if we choose not to include so many of those great RPGs that mesh genres, limiting the list to Japanese RPGs seems somewhat arbitrary. And then there's the odd way they listed the Final Fantasy games. And even if we ignore that, the omissions here are glaring.
Pokemon is an absolute must on a list like this, and the omission of the entire Mario RPG series is really egregious. Just why they included Chrono Cross and not any of the Lunar games is a crime against good taste (hey, I liked CC, and the soundtrack was awesome, but let's face it, it was a damn poor successor to Chrono Trigger).
So as much as I like Gamasutra, I just have to conclude that they dun wrong here. Very, very wrong.
Let's see, I'd add in Lunar 2 and switch over BoF 5 for BoF 4, and probably Lufia 2, although I've never played it. Oh, and FF9 should have at least been grouped in with 4, 6, and 7. Whatever.
We must have been playing completely different games, because the FF12 I played was the complete antithesis of an Action/RPG. Programming your characters to auto fight while occasionally interrupting their programming for exceptions isn't action at all. And several JRPG have mild platforming elements (Xenogears & Wild Arms both come to mind), but I would hardly consider them platform/RPGs (that's more like the Castlevania games).
From the article:
"As of 2008, the Japanese RPG has become a subject of scorn for many Western critics, deriding it for its conventions -- slow, menu based combat, random battles, overreliance on narrative -- and for its failure to evolve. In spite of this, there are still many fans of the genre, who continue to enjoy them for their interesting plots, characters, and battle systems.
This is a list of twenty of the best JRPGs of all time -- well, an attempt, anyway. Each of these has been selected for excelling in some significant way, whether it's through compelling narrative devices or intriguing gameplay mechanics. "
Agreed.
Lunar games weren't listed separately because the article considered Grandia to be the spiritual successor to them. From the article:
"Game Arts' Lunar series has a pretty decent following, especially amongst English speakers. This was mostly because it was one of the few JRPGs of the 16-bit era that received competent translations thanks to Working Designs.
After the original two releases (for the Sega CD), their remakes (for the Saturn and PlayStation), and a completely negligible side story (Magical School for the Saturn and Game Gear), fans kept clamoring for a new Lunar installments.
What Lunar fans perhaps may not have realized is that the series' spirit lived in Grandia, another series by the same company. It may be missing the interesting mythology behind the Lunar world, and they definitely falter from the lack of Toshiyuki Kubooka's distinctive character artwork, but they practically perfect one area where JRPG developers often still can't get it right -- the battle system. "
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire,
Ok first of all that Grandia being Lunars successor is bullshit, they can put 3 different entries for final fantasy (Im not going to even get into that)
Breath of Fire 3 is the best one (well maybe 2 they are both great) I'd recommend both over 5 which is also good
also no Vagrant Story is a goddamn crime wither that or Parasite Eve. Because VP is pretty much an Action RPG
Now with whats on the list.
Xenogears is probably in my top 3 RPG's ever but with its bullshit second disc its not deserving to be on that list.
I do like the FF compromise. FF 5 is a watershed moment in the series. All those FFT fanboys wouldn't have squat without FF5.
This list is perfectly acceptable to me. I might have taken out SH or FF X or FF XII and put in something like Superstar Saga just to show the other end of it. This list is very turn based random encounter heavy, but that's to be expected.
Lufia 2 is a definite, and Mario RPG.
The SaGa series is a pretty big omission, but even as a fan of the games, I'm not sure I'd put one on the list. Their mechanics and non-linearity is set up in a way that can be really inaccessible and polarizing. But Saga Frontier 2 and Unlimited Saga are really good in the music and visual departments, so maybe.
It was the first in development hell, in the middle of a multipart epic story with a crazy pseudo deep storyline that fanboys just gobble up.
Quite possibly the most brilliant fuck up in video game history. I mean, look what it eventually lead to.
Good music too.
Well, it starts with "X" and, as everyone knows, X marks the spot.
Why the hell is Chrono Cross even on there?
Because Breath of Fire V is one of the most innovative JRPGs ever with awesome music and a truly emotional story and all of the other Breath of Fires are cookie cutter JRPGs? Pretty good cookie cutter JRPGs to be fair (and BoF3 in particular was a lot of fun), but about as generic in gameplay style as you get.
Xenogears was on the list because of its story. It's the Neon Genesis Evangelion of the JRPG world: love it or hate it, the story was ambitious to an extent that no JRPG before and few after have reached. The fact that the production values were higher than just about anything at the time certainly didn't hurt either.
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire,
well Mitsuda is the best composer to come out of japan bar none, no arguments there.
Otherwise, it's a pretty solid list.
And love it or hate it, Chrono Cross has one of the best OSTs ever.
I'm also fond of the story, but that's a minority view.
Sure, there's dozens of fairly unimportant characters, but the ones that count, count.
That's a weak argument and I think you know it. Besides, if we're really giving a spot on the list to a so-so RPG raised to legendary status by a spectacular soundtrack, that spot was already given to Xenogears (which had the same composer and much the same dev team, coincidentally enough).
For me, a lot of the tougher fights seemed to absolutely require command babysitting. I'm not saying it's friggin' The Legend of Zelda, but rather, just trying to point out that the whole rigid genre exclusion thing is silly. I mean, if they really wanted to honor J-RPGs, why would they bother to nitpick about this kinda' stuff when it reduces their list to including games like Chrono Cross over truly worthwhile titles like Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea, Fire Emblem and Kingdom Hearts II?
Of course, that still doesn't change the fact that the lack of Mario RPG and Pokemon makes the list an instant fail.
I'll take a pass on the battle system, actually...
Want to run from a battle? Go ahead.
Want to level your mans? Fight a boss.
I love the excitement that choosing a risky hit can bring, or the ever changing elemental field.
I also love the story.
I never had a need to do anything besides increase the hit percentage for the strongest attacks, and then use the strongest skills available. It basically just spread out the same monotony of other games' battles into multiple button presses.
There are some exceptions, but that's what it boiled down to the majority of the time.
I'm still looking for a copy of Xenogears, and I need to get around to beating Cross...
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Aren't you both forgetting that its all about bitchen giant robots?!
Everyone digs giant robots.
I never asked for this!