Now that I've re-read the page in question, I think I can see where he was going with it. I believe he touched upon the evolution of story-telling through these games while pleasing both the casual and the hardcore side of the gaming community.
Obviously, FFVII received the largest share of the word pie there, since it basically became the entry-point for many fans of the genre, blowing everybody away with, dare I say it, awesome. I've played this game for the first time about two years ago, and I was able to see from where all the praise stemmed. And why fans are clammoring for a remake.
FFX, then, was like another take at improving story-telling, with mixed success.
That's my explanation. It's an opinion piece anyway, and from the comments here it seems like it is a popularity poll or something.
FF7 is the best game ever made. It falls into a lot of categories and that is what makes it so good.
Strategy, Action, Role Playing, etc. Golden Saucer? Knights of the Round? Crazy big tittied kung-fu-boxer chicks? An Epic Storyline that no other game has really matched? I mean, as far as "Games" go, FF7 just houses a whole shitload of awesome.
Anyone who says otherwise is a fucking terrorist, and I must ask them this question: Why do you hate freedom?
Personally I think "top" lists should exclude the FF series. I think it is so obvious that they are great games for the genre they are in and there are so many of them (Ironic that it is Final Fantasy right?) that they should be shelved and allow room for OTHER games to be on the list. Maybe Game 21 was awesome, but no one will ever know now because a slot was taken up by the already-known awesome games.
If you qualify "different" as "pressing a button before you hit a bad guy", then yes, I suppose that argument would make sense! To the rest of us - the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi games did it better. I didn't particularly think it was all that interesting there either, but at least those had some quality writing.
Again, the lack of consistency is astounding.
I'll try my hardest to agree more with your opinions in the future then!
Most of your opinions in this quote tree are completely biased and show an ignorance of the time period the game was produced in, but I do have to comment on the one about the graphics.
Super Mario RPG was one of the first (if not THE first) RPG where they decided not to use sprites. I'd say that is pretty revolutionary by itself, even if you rightly claim that it looks like crap. Of course it looks like crap and it had been done better since, it was one of the first games to try it!
This is why I don't understand why certain games are on this list. FFIV revolutionized storytelling in games, FFV invented the job system...but Crono Cross? Bhuh?
Lists like these promote nerd violence.
Really, Panzer Dragoon Saga? SMT: Nocturne? Not bashing either game, but seriously, why are games that less than 30,000 people have access to essential? Clearly, Gamasutra is using these inaccessible games to brainwash us into a huge gamer army bent on destroying mankind as we know it!
It's not a bad list, too much Final Fantasy though. Also, to anyone who bashes Mitsuda, diaf
Really, Panzer Dragoon Saga? SMT: Nocturne? Not bashing either game, but seriously, why are games that less than 30,000 people have access to essential?
I dunno about Nocturne, as I've never played. Saga, on the other hand, is completely sublime in execution.
FF7 is one of the most if not the most influential game of all time. Never forget that.
Out of my current game collection there are no titles that I can say are even remotely influenced by FF7.
Mario was an evolution of the arcade/atari generation. True, it revitalized the industry but as a game alone it didn't have such widespread effects as FF7 did.
Final Fantasy VII was herald to a major shift in the game industry, a shift in storytelling and game design, and an expansion of an entire genre.
And influence doesn't alone make the game the best game ever, but FF7 was hardly a bad game in quality. It was a combination of its outstanding quality and its groundbreaking innovation that made it one of the best.
Edit: Sleep, did you skip the entire PS1 generation?
Also, the sheer size of the game really added to it as well. And honestly, there are few games, especially now-a-days, that really offer the depth and length of play that FF7 offered, and similar games of that generation.
Games have a storyline that is fast, with 100 side missions, and that bugs the shit out of me. Replacing content with.... the same shit I do in an MMO. Blech.
Mario was an evolution of the arcade/atari generation. True, it revitalized the industry but as a game alone it didn't have such widespread effects as FF7 did.
Final Fantasy VII was herald to a major shift in the game industry, a shift in storytelling and game design, and an expansion of an entire genre.
And influence alone doesn't alone make the game the best game ever, but FF7 was hardly a bad game in quality. It was a combination of its outstanding quality and its groundbreaking innovation that made it one of the best.
Edit: Sleep, did you skip the entire PS1 generation?
FF7 more influential than Mario? Oh, I see. Nevermind then. I thought we were being serious.
FF7 is one of the most if not the most influential game of all time. Never forget that.
It influenced people to buy more JRPGs. To buy "the sequel."
I think a lot of reason FF7 is popular is because it was a lot of people's first JRPG. It's a great game I just wouldnt put it above over games of the same calibur. For example, I enjoyed Chrono Trigger more than FF7 at the time I played it.
How so? It's story was a step back from Final Fantasy IV IMHO.
and game design
Again, how so? I can't think of much that FFVII did that wasn't done before, or wasn't a natural progression of development.
and an expansion of an entire genre
Thirdly, how so? It did nothing that wasn't done before.
I request that you be a little more specific please sir.
Also, the sheer size of the game really added to it as well.
Size?
FFIV and FFVI had multiple worlds to explore. FFVII only one.
FF7 introduced the cinematic style of storytelling. After FF7 pretty much every game had to have the epic and gradiose stories, chock full of computer generated cinematics. FF7 made developers realize that video games were a viable media for storytelling.
7 showed how to intergrate CG into the gameplay. Pretty much every jRPG and even more games outside of that had this style of storytelling incorporated in some form.
While 7 isn't solely responsible for Sony's success you have to admit it had a lot to do with it. It at least made the PS1 well known thanks to 7's ridiculous advertising campaign.
And do I really have to explain how jRPGs became more popular after FF7? The PS1 was the king of RPGs by the end of the generation.
That's a silly way to base size. If you want to split hairs 7 had two worlds as well. Midgar and the rest of the world. By counting 6's world of ruin as a separate world then you'll have to count 7's overworld after Sephi summons Comet and the Weapons torn shit up. Length wise 7 is about the same as 6 though.
Edit: And 7 wasn't my first RPG btw. No where near in fact. I played and beat 4 and 6 before that.
FF7 introduced the cinematic style of storytelling.
And all of the RPGs that appeared years before FF7 that incorporated FMV cutscenes didn't?
After FF7 pretty much every game had to have the epic and gradiose stories
I can think of several RPGs that had epic and grandiose stories before FF7.
chock full of computer generated cinematics
More of a sign of the times than anything on FF7's part. Panzer Dragoon debuted on the Sega Saturn with full motion computer generated cinematics. Same with Panzer Dragoon Zwei. Panzer Dragoon Saga began production at the same time as Zwei in 1996, and I imagine CGI cutscenes were a planned part of the game as well.
FF7 made developers realize that video games was a viable media for storytelling.
As opposed to, say, Radical Dreamers, a release on the SNES that was nothing more than an interactive book?
Hell. As opposed to RPGs before FF7?
7 showed how to intergrate CG into the gameplay. Pretty much every jRPG and even more games outside of that had this style of storytelling incorporated in some form.
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
While 7 isn't solely responsible for Sony's success you have to admit it had a lot to do with it. It at least made the PS1 well known thanks to 7's ridiculous advertising campaign.
The PSX was pretty well known before, but yeah, it definitely helped. That doesn't help the argument whether or whether not it's a good game, though.
And do I really have to explain how jRPGs became more popular after FF7?
No, but that doesn't speak on the games "innovation" either. Setting a trend doesn't bless it with other qualities.
You think 7 is part of a trend, I think it started the trend. We'll have to agree to disagree here.
And FF7 is a good game. The critics agreed with me when the game was released. I think its ridiculous to think that their opinion's have unanimously shifted to that its overrated.
You think 7 is part of a trend, I think it started the trend. We'll have to agree to disagree here.
My last sentence, quoted, verbatim.
"Setting a trend doesn't bless it with other qualities."
And FF7 is a good game. The critics agreed with me when the game was released. I think its ridiculous to think that their opinion's have unanimously shifted to that its overrated.
I'm not saying that FFVII is or isn't a good game. It's overrated because people like you keep saying that no game used CGI, cut scenes, epic narratives, and that games weren't used to tell stories before FFVII debuted, and you're flat our wrong. I'm not trying to be offensive when I say that, but that's just how it is.
FFVII didn't do anything that hadn't been done before, it just did them with high production values and slick presentation. I think it's a pretty good game, but I think there are other RPGs that are better.
You think 7 is part of a trend, I think it started the trend. We'll have to agree to disagree here.
And FF7 is a good game. The critics agreed with me when the game was released. I think its ridiculous to think that their opinion's have unanimously shifted to that its overrated.
Since you're now going by critics then I'm going to have to point you towards gamerankings in which Final Fantasy 7 doesn't even enter the top ten; infact it sits all the way down at number 74.
Also, I'm not saying it isn't a good game. I'm saying there's a lot of better games.
You think 7 is part of a trend, I think it started the trend. We'll have to agree to disagree here.
And FF7 is a good game. The critics agreed with me when the game was released. I think its ridiculous to think that their opinion's have unanimously shifted to that its overrated.
Since you're now going by critics then I'm going to have to point you towards gamerankings in which Final Fantasy 7 doesn't even enter the top ten; infact it sits all the way down at number 74.
Also, I'm not saying it isn't a good game. I'm saying there's a lot of better games.
I think that FF7 has had enough impact that every single JRPG/RPG discussion has an argument about it at some point. Even general game discussions have a mention of it somewhere most of the time.
And then there are people who ask me "What is FF7?" and I am just as shocked as if someone said they never heard of Mario. The world is a funny place.
I feel confident in saying, for me, FFIX is way better than VII, and it's absence on this list hurts me. Just to put that out there.
When it comes to FFVII, there's a lot to talk about. I mean, it is a great game, and it's an excellent JRPG, but I feel a lot of what made it great was the jump to a new platform. I mean, you had these pre-rendered cutscenes that you simply couldn't do on the SNES, way more content thanks to the media used (CDs! 4 of them!), and strong storytelling tied the whole game together quite nicely. Do these things warrant it's title as a great game? Yes. Does it warrant a spot on this list? Definitely. Is it the greatest RPG ever made? That's seriously debatable.
Regarding the list, I think Lunar is a glaring omission, the Final Fantasies could've all been placed together (sans their pick for their favorite, if they wanted to set one apart), but it was a fun read. I learned a lot about FFX.
Beck on
Lucas's Franklin Badge reflected the lightning back!
The amount of trashing that Chrono Cross receives from Trigger fans never ceases to amaze me. I'm sorry that they were unable to appreciate the game on its own merits.
The amount of trashing that Chrono Cross receives from Trigger fans never ceases to amaze me. I'm sorry that they were unable to appreciate the game on its own merits.
That's how I learned to deal with it. I refuse to acknowledge that it's a sequel to Chrono Trigger and in doing so, learned to appreciate the game for what it was.
The amount of trashing that Chrono Cross receives from Trigger fans never ceases to amaze me. I'm sorry that they were unable to appreciate the game on its own merits.
Almost as bad as the people who complain about Metriod's transition to a FPS adventure.
Posts
Obviously, FFVII received the largest share of the word pie there, since it basically became the entry-point for many fans of the genre, blowing everybody away with, dare I say it, awesome. I've played this game for the first time about two years ago, and I was able to see from where all the praise stemmed. And why fans are clammoring for a remake.
FFX, then, was like another take at improving story-telling, with mixed success.
That's my explanation. It's an opinion piece anyway, and from the comments here it seems like it is a popularity poll or something.
Strategy, Action, Role Playing, etc. Golden Saucer? Knights of the Round? Crazy big tittied kung-fu-boxer chicks? An Epic Storyline that no other game has really matched? I mean, as far as "Games" go, FF7 just houses a whole shitload of awesome.
Anyone who says otherwise is a fucking terrorist, and I must ask them this question: Why do you hate freedom?
Personally I think "top" lists should exclude the FF series. I think it is so obvious that they are great games for the genre they are in and there are so many of them (Ironic that it is Final Fantasy right?) that they should be shelved and allow room for OTHER games to be on the list. Maybe Game 21 was awesome, but no one will ever know now because a slot was taken up by the already-known awesome games.
PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
Die in a fire and take your terrorist handbook with you.
...
Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
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You can start by playing the Shin Megami Tensei series or Disgaea1/2.
PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
Your Current Signature Picture[/SIGPIC]
PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
Most of your opinions in this quote tree are completely biased and show an ignorance of the time period the game was produced in, but I do have to comment on the one about the graphics.
Super Mario RPG was one of the first (if not THE first) RPG where they decided not to use sprites. I'd say that is pretty revolutionary by itself, even if you rightly claim that it looks like crap. Of course it looks like crap and it had been done better since, it was one of the first games to try it!
This is why I don't understand why certain games are on this list. FFIV revolutionized storytelling in games, FFV invented the job system...but Crono Cross? Bhuh?
Really, Panzer Dragoon Saga? SMT: Nocturne? Not bashing either game, but seriously, why are games that less than 30,000 people have access to essential? Clearly, Gamasutra is using these inaccessible games to brainwash us into a huge gamer army bent on destroying mankind as we know it!
How can you compare FF7 to Disgaea? FFT maybe, but FF7?
And Super Mario 3 is a fantastic game, I can agree on this.
I dunno about Nocturne, as I've never played. Saga, on the other hand, is completely sublime in execution.
Out of my current game collection there are no titles that I can say are even remotely influenced by FF7.
And I own and enjoy Lost Odyssey.
Final Fantasy VII was herald to a major shift in the game industry, a shift in storytelling and game design, and an expansion of an entire genre.
And influence doesn't alone make the game the best game ever, but FF7 was hardly a bad game in quality. It was a combination of its outstanding quality and its groundbreaking innovation that made it one of the best.
Edit: Sleep, did you skip the entire PS1 generation?
Your Current Signature Picture[/SIGPIC]
Games have a storyline that is fast, with 100 side missions, and that bugs the shit out of me. Replacing content with.... the same shit I do in an MMO. Blech.
How so? It's story was a step back from Final Fantasy IV IMHO.
Again, how so? I can't think of much that FFVII did that wasn't done before, or wasn't a natural progression of development.
Thirdly, how so? It did nothing that wasn't done before.
I request that you be a little more specific please sir.
Size?
FFIV and FFVI had multiple worlds to explore. FFVII only one.
PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
It influenced people to buy more JRPGs. To buy "the sequel."
PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
7 showed how to intergrate CG into the gameplay. Pretty much every jRPG and even more games outside of that had this style of storytelling incorporated in some form.
While 7 isn't solely responsible for Sony's success you have to admit it had a lot to do with it. It at least made the PS1 well known thanks to 7's ridiculous advertising campaign.
And do I really have to explain how jRPGs became more popular after FF7? The PS1 was the king of RPGs by the end of the generation.
That's a silly way to base size. If you want to split hairs 7 had two worlds as well. Midgar and the rest of the world. By counting 6's world of ruin as a separate world then you'll have to count 7's overworld after Sephi summons Comet and the Weapons torn shit up. Length wise 7 is about the same as 6 though.
Edit: And 7 wasn't my first RPG btw. No where near in fact. I played and beat 4 and 6 before that.
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And all of the RPGs that appeared years before FF7 that incorporated FMV cutscenes didn't?
I can think of several RPGs that had epic and grandiose stories before FF7.
More of a sign of the times than anything on FF7's part. Panzer Dragoon debuted on the Sega Saturn with full motion computer generated cinematics. Same with Panzer Dragoon Zwei. Panzer Dragoon Saga began production at the same time as Zwei in 1996, and I imagine CGI cutscenes were a planned part of the game as well.
As opposed to, say, Radical Dreamers, a release on the SNES that was nothing more than an interactive book?
Hell. As opposed to RPGs before FF7?
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
The PSX was pretty well known before, but yeah, it definitely helped. That doesn't help the argument whether or whether not it's a good game, though.
No, but that doesn't speak on the games "innovation" either. Setting a trend doesn't bless it with other qualities.
And FF7 is a good game. The critics agreed with me when the game was released. I think its ridiculous to think that their opinion's have unanimously shifted to that its overrated.
Your Current Signature Picture[/SIGPIC]
My last sentence, quoted, verbatim.
"Setting a trend doesn't bless it with other qualities."
I'm not saying that FFVII is or isn't a good game. It's overrated because people like you keep saying that no game used CGI, cut scenes, epic narratives, and that games weren't used to tell stories before FFVII debuted, and you're flat our wrong. I'm not trying to be offensive when I say that, but that's just how it is.
FFVII didn't do anything that hadn't been done before, it just did them with high production values and slick presentation. I think it's a pretty good game, but I think there are other RPGs that are better.
Also, I'm not saying it isn't a good game. I'm saying there's a lot of better games.
PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
That's like...a 9.something, right?
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And then there are people who ask me "What is FF7?" and I am just as shocked as if someone said they never heard of Mario. The world is a funny place.
So a good game, but not perfect by any merit.
PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
When it comes to FFVII, there's a lot to talk about. I mean, it is a great game, and it's an excellent JRPG, but I feel a lot of what made it great was the jump to a new platform. I mean, you had these pre-rendered cutscenes that you simply couldn't do on the SNES, way more content thanks to the media used (CDs! 4 of them!), and strong storytelling tied the whole game together quite nicely. Do these things warrant it's title as a great game? Yes. Does it warrant a spot on this list? Definitely. Is it the greatest RPG ever made? That's seriously debatable.
Regarding the list, I think Lunar is a glaring omission, the Final Fantasies could've all been placed together (sans their pick for their favorite, if they wanted to set one apart), but it was a fun read. I learned a lot about FFX.
That's how I learned to deal with it. I refuse to acknowledge that it's a sequel to Chrono Trigger and in doing so, learned to appreciate the game for what it was.
PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
Where do I fall on the scale of pity?
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
PSN = Wicker86 ________ Gamertag = Wicker86
FF9 didn't do anything special though it was a throwback to games 'ike FF4 and in that regard FF4 is better then 9 and it son the list.
Still, why no Tales? Seriously, is it just, too Japanese for some people? I dont get it
Beautiful game, fun battle system, but it just didn't pan out like I hoped.
And I really hope those of you who dislike Chrono Cross at least finished it.
And saw the real ending.
It's a beautiful thing.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970