I wasn't done with the stats- i wrote in something very much akin to that on the ride home.
I was intending it to be a playful joke, but I guess it fell flat in a text medium.
I'm unfamiliar with DH, but it came across as a genuine good suggestion to me
It was- I was just making the observation that I didn't have the time to finish typing it out
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
edited March 2008
Pardon the interruption, but I've been thinking; we need more than just stats for this beast. We need some background. Unfortunately what we can infer is very limited:
One, it's a bird. An horrifically monstrous bird, but a bird nonetheless.
Two, it lives almost entirely underground, but near enough to the surface for simple exterminators to disturb them.
Three, they are a common enough hazard of the exterminating business that most exterminators know them on sight/sound/touch.
Four, they like artificial caverns just as much as they like natural ones.
Five, they have wings which are obviously not vestigial, thus they must use them. What for?
Six, they either diverged from the parent line a long time ago or they are/were subject to some rapid selection process which caused all the major divergences from the standard bird form. If this selection pressure exists, what is it?
Seven, they are sneaky buggers; one was able to get into a human surface dwelling without being noticed until it was too late and also without causing any obvious structural damage to either the walls or the floor.
Eight, we can't be totally sure, but there is probably some connection between the crows and the Stalagmen. Are Stalagmen uprisings caused by Deep Crow activity?
Based on those inferences, I have also generated a few ideas that may be provocative:
One; bird biology. Birds nest, raptors nest in solitary pairs and bond for life. Deep crows should thus be found in mated pairs, possibly with attendant chicks depending on the time of year. Birds display; one or other of the sexes will often engage in elaborate schemes to win mating rights from the other sex. Do Deep Crows engage in such behaviour regularly and if they do, what do they display? Could it be gold and other sparklies? What about magical artefacts? Also, gizzards: If we assume that the deep crows feed on stalagmen and that stalagmen are mostly made of rock, then the crow is likely to have a gizzard, a muscular pouch lined with stones to aid digestion (no teeth, see). Now, to aid digestion of rocks, what would you use as a grinder? Yeah, that's right, diamonds.
Two and three; I dunno, somehow I think that this was a special case. Do deep crows hate exterminators for some reason?
...
Six: What would do such a thing? A deliberate breeding programme? Magic? Radiation? All three? Did the Stalagman civilisation once try to create its ultimate protector, but accidentally wind up creating it's ultimate nemesis?
Seven; something about this stinks of teleportation to me....
Eight; see six.
Anyway, just some random thoughts I had. Feel free to use them or not, guys.
That is not dead Which can eternal lie
Yet with strange aeons Even death may die.
I think you are looking at it from the wrong direction. The oldest of the Deep Crows existed before thought and consciousness attempted to make sense of the this existence. The Deep Crows stalked dark places in their amalgamated forms. Some chose to soar in the sky and feast upon the dead and dying and shepherd them to the realm beyond. Others chose to slither on the ground and consume the mortal shells of those long passed. But a few stayed in their unmarred and beautiful form as Deep Crows.
A better question would be to ask why normal crows where exiled from the ancient homes of the Deep Crow, and what incomprehensible taboo the Carrion Worms violated to be punished with their forms.
In his house under Gabe's garage dead Deep Crow waits dreaming.
Ok that didn't translate as well as yours but I'm perpetually horrified by something that is dead and dreams about me.
As for the ecology angle, I would say lightblindness makes sense, along with flesh eating via either being fed (my spin on the DC will involve humanoids driven to madness by it's shriek/gaze, scribbling and carving nightmare writing, sneaking out in the night to steal children to feed their dark master rather than the more cartoony stalagmen) or hunting on it's own - other underground denizens or surface dwellers in the night.
I would suggest turning away from attempting to nail down every detail about where it came from and why. Where do nightmares come from? It starts to lose the horror and turn into the generic if you overwork it... it's like cake batter. Or so I'm told, I only make pies.
I also posit that the DC can fly just goddam fine underground.
I see three shapes that the Deep Crow can be developed into, all of which I think are valid.
1. Giant insectoid crow: Fairly unterrifying, low CR magical creature, appropriate for low-level, beer and pretzel campaigns.
2. Demonic/alien thing that is more like a crow than anything else mortal minds know, but is still fundamentally other and could potentially be a main villain, like the Queen Alien in Aliens. This is more suspense, thriller.
3. An elder god, best left without stats. PCs coming into contact should make saving throws and be mutilated, driven insane, and killed horribly as appropriate. This is straight CoC-style horror.
Personally, I prefer 3.
Also, one reason the wings could work is if the world has a massive open Underdark or Hollow Earth.
Really like where zerg rush is going. I think, rather than weakening it to make it less draconic or to stay in our "Safe zone" of confirmed information, we should be expanding well past it, to the limits of possibility. Turning the Deep Crow into a glorified griffin or a nerfed dragon is no fun at all... It's when it starts destroying wills with its deafening screech and shooting laser beams out of its eyes that the PCs start to understand the power of a Truly Ancient Deep Crow.
The recent Fangspire comics should be taken into consideration as another source of Deep Crow information. First, it is pretty well assumed that they are ancient beings, who may have been around to see the world born. Second, and most important, they have a very, very low Sense Motive. Something this powerful would naturally have an extremely high Wisdom score, but their sense motive should have some kind of penalty. It seems that if they are tricked, they admit defeat.
Because of that last point, I believe that encounters with Deep Crows should not be combat encounters (and also they they should be given sufficient power that attacking one is suicide). Rather, I see the PCs being ambushed, captured, and forced to trick their way to safety, a la the oldest myths and stories.
When I craft my 4e Deep Crow, the fangspire comics will lie outside canon (or at most fit very loosely)... simply because the thumb trick is too comical to fit with the rest ;p I don't really picture the DC chatting, more like driving you mad with gaze & screech attacks... this pushes me away from a sphinxian encounter angle.
Hi all.
I was working on my normal D&D campaign for my group whilst also checking out the new Penny Arcade Comic. I don't remember why I ended up searching for the Deep Crow on Google, but I did, and I ended up here. I spent a bit of time working a on 3.5 (or 3.whatever) Deep Crow based on the original CR 12 one that was written a while back. I figured I'd share what I've come up with if anyone was interested.
Basically, I took the True Dragon advancement from the 3.5 Monster Manual (available from most SRD sites, here's the one that I use http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html) and made a Deep Crow advancement series of tables. Hit Dice (being a magical beast it has a d10 hit die) , Base Attack (+1/Hit Dice), Movement Types and Speed, basically, everything that's needed to run a Deep Crow Hatchling (equivalent of a Wyrmling) or anything up to and in between Truly Ancient (the equivalent of a Great Wyrm). I haven't finished everything yet, most notably the damage each attack deals at each age and all of the special abilities based on Age Category.
I wondered whether the Deep Crow would have ray attacks from one or several of the eight eyes (possibly electricity, force or most likely magic damage, or even something similar to a Beholder), like someone mentioned earlier and whether the sonic attack "shriek" deals sonic damage in the way a dragon uses a breath weapon or perhaps it functions like the metallic dragon's nonlethal breath weapon and simply stuns those caught in the area of effect, like that which is used in the CR 12 posted online.
I kept some of the True Dragon abilities since some fit well into the physiology of the Deep Crow. I gave the Deep Crow Keen Sense (Darkvision to 120-ft. and able to see four times as well a human in shadowy conditions) as it has eight eyes, a tail sweep the same as a dragon (apparently they have a leathery tail with four stingers on it, I read that somewhere), and frightful presence.
To go with that it has a primary attack with its mandible (bite attack) and secondary attacks with its two front talons (claw attacks) and a tail slap.
A Deep Crow of sufficient age has spell resistance and damage reduction (as truly ancient Deep Crows are only tamed by the oldest and most powerful magics).
It has a crush attack (for age categories that are of huge size or larger), but I was considering a rend attack for when the Deep Crow grapples opponent with its Snatch ability.
I believe someone mentioned that birds (eagles and hawks anyway) tend to tear their prey up (tearing off skin or feathers) before they eat it. Well, a Deep Crow has four legs, it stands to reason that it could rend an opponent its grappled with its front talons or mandible or all three and still be able to balance on its rear legs.
Also, an ant-like mandible would lend itself to crushing and tearing at anything it has caught in there.
I plan to keep working on the stats I have. So, once I've finished them, if someone would like me to post them, I will.
Any input on ray attacks for the eyes and what kind of function the shriek attack has (basically a breath weapon, usable every 1d4 rounds) would be most excellent.
Posts
I'm unfamiliar with DH, but it came across as a genuine good suggestion to me
It was- I was just making the observation that I didn't have the time to finish typing it out
One, it's a bird. An horrifically monstrous bird, but a bird nonetheless.
Two, it lives almost entirely underground, but near enough to the surface for simple exterminators to disturb them.
Three, they are a common enough hazard of the exterminating business that most exterminators know them on sight/sound/touch.
Four, they like artificial caverns just as much as they like natural ones.
Five, they have wings which are obviously not vestigial, thus they must use them. What for?
Six, they either diverged from the parent line a long time ago or they are/were subject to some rapid selection process which caused all the major divergences from the standard bird form. If this selection pressure exists, what is it?
Seven, they are sneaky buggers; one was able to get into a human surface dwelling without being noticed until it was too late and also without causing any obvious structural damage to either the walls or the floor.
Eight, we can't be totally sure, but there is probably some connection between the crows and the Stalagmen. Are Stalagmen uprisings caused by Deep Crow activity?
Based on those inferences, I have also generated a few ideas that may be provocative:
One; bird biology. Birds nest, raptors nest in solitary pairs and bond for life. Deep crows should thus be found in mated pairs, possibly with attendant chicks depending on the time of year. Birds display; one or other of the sexes will often engage in elaborate schemes to win mating rights from the other sex. Do Deep Crows engage in such behaviour regularly and if they do, what do they display? Could it be gold and other sparklies? What about magical artefacts? Also, gizzards: If we assume that the deep crows feed on stalagmen and that stalagmen are mostly made of rock, then the crow is likely to have a gizzard, a muscular pouch lined with stones to aid digestion (no teeth, see). Now, to aid digestion of rocks, what would you use as a grinder? Yeah, that's right, diamonds.
Two and three; I dunno, somehow I think that this was a special case. Do deep crows hate exterminators for some reason?
...
Six: What would do such a thing? A deliberate breeding programme? Magic? Radiation? All three? Did the Stalagman civilisation once try to create its ultimate protector, but accidentally wind up creating it's ultimate nemesis?
Seven; something about this stinks of teleportation to me....
Eight; see six.
Anyway, just some random thoughts I had. Feel free to use them or not, guys.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
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1. They live close to each other.
2. The stalagmen are made of rock.
ergo: Crowhorts.
What creature type is the Deep Crow? Outsider, Abberation or Magical Beast? I mean, that might help with what we're doing... to some degree...
I think you are looking at it from the wrong direction. The oldest of the Deep Crows existed before thought and consciousness attempted to make sense of the this existence. The Deep Crows stalked dark places in their amalgamated forms. Some chose to soar in the sky and feast upon the dead and dying and shepherd them to the realm beyond. Others chose to slither on the ground and consume the mortal shells of those long passed. But a few stayed in their unmarred and beautiful form as Deep Crows.
A better question would be to ask why normal crows where exiled from the ancient homes of the Deep Crow, and what incomprehensible taboo the Carrion Worms violated to be punished with their forms.
Ok that didn't translate as well as yours but I'm perpetually horrified by something that is dead and dreams about me.
As for the ecology angle, I would say lightblindness makes sense, along with flesh eating via either being fed (my spin on the DC will involve humanoids driven to madness by it's shriek/gaze, scribbling and carving nightmare writing, sneaking out in the night to steal children to feed their dark master rather than the more cartoony stalagmen) or hunting on it's own - other underground denizens or surface dwellers in the night.
I would suggest turning away from attempting to nail down every detail about where it came from and why. Where do nightmares come from? It starts to lose the horror and turn into the generic if you overwork it... it's like cake batter. Or so I'm told, I only make pies.
I also posit that the DC can fly just goddam fine underground.
YES!
Something to print out...
1. Giant insectoid crow: Fairly unterrifying, low CR magical creature, appropriate for low-level, beer and pretzel campaigns.
2. Demonic/alien thing that is more like a crow than anything else mortal minds know, but is still fundamentally other and could potentially be a main villain, like the Queen Alien in Aliens. This is more suspense, thriller.
3. An elder god, best left without stats. PCs coming into contact should make saving throws and be mutilated, driven insane, and killed horribly as appropriate. This is straight CoC-style horror.
Personally, I prefer 3.
Also, one reason the wings could work is if the world has a massive open Underdark or Hollow Earth.
The recent Fangspire comics should be taken into consideration as another source of Deep Crow information. First, it is pretty well assumed that they are ancient beings, who may have been around to see the world born. Second, and most important, they have a very, very low Sense Motive. Something this powerful would naturally have an extremely high Wisdom score, but their sense motive should have some kind of penalty. It seems that if they are tricked, they admit defeat.
Because of that last point, I believe that encounters with Deep Crows should not be combat encounters (and also they they should be given sufficient power that attacking one is suicide). Rather, I see the PCs being ambushed, captured, and forced to trick their way to safety, a la the oldest myths and stories.
I was working on my normal D&D campaign for my group whilst also checking out the new Penny Arcade Comic. I don't remember why I ended up searching for the Deep Crow on Google, but I did, and I ended up here. I spent a bit of time working a on 3.5 (or 3.whatever) Deep Crow based on the original CR 12 one that was written a while back. I figured I'd share what I've come up with if anyone was interested.
Basically, I took the True Dragon advancement from the 3.5 Monster Manual (available from most SRD sites, here's the one that I use http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html) and made a Deep Crow advancement series of tables. Hit Dice (being a magical beast it has a d10 hit die) , Base Attack (+1/Hit Dice), Movement Types and Speed, basically, everything that's needed to run a Deep Crow Hatchling (equivalent of a Wyrmling) or anything up to and in between Truly Ancient (the equivalent of a Great Wyrm). I haven't finished everything yet, most notably the damage each attack deals at each age and all of the special abilities based on Age Category.
I wondered whether the Deep Crow would have ray attacks from one or several of the eight eyes (possibly electricity, force or most likely magic damage, or even something similar to a Beholder), like someone mentioned earlier and whether the sonic attack "shriek" deals sonic damage in the way a dragon uses a breath weapon or perhaps it functions like the metallic dragon's nonlethal breath weapon and simply stuns those caught in the area of effect, like that which is used in the CR 12 posted online.
I kept some of the True Dragon abilities since some fit well into the physiology of the Deep Crow. I gave the Deep Crow Keen Sense (Darkvision to 120-ft. and able to see four times as well a human in shadowy conditions) as it has eight eyes, a tail sweep the same as a dragon (apparently they have a leathery tail with four stingers on it, I read that somewhere), and frightful presence.
To go with that it has a primary attack with its mandible (bite attack) and secondary attacks with its two front talons (claw attacks) and a tail slap.
A Deep Crow of sufficient age has spell resistance and damage reduction (as truly ancient Deep Crows are only tamed by the oldest and most powerful magics).
It has a crush attack (for age categories that are of huge size or larger), but I was considering a rend attack for when the Deep Crow grapples opponent with its Snatch ability.
I believe someone mentioned that birds (eagles and hawks anyway) tend to tear their prey up (tearing off skin or feathers) before they eat it. Well, a Deep Crow has four legs, it stands to reason that it could rend an opponent its grappled with its front talons or mandible or all three and still be able to balance on its rear legs.
Also, an ant-like mandible would lend itself to crushing and tearing at anything it has caught in there.
I plan to keep working on the stats I have. So, once I've finished them, if someone would like me to post them, I will.
Any input on ray attacks for the eyes and what kind of function the shriek attack has (basically a breath weapon, usable every 1d4 rounds) would be most excellent.