The whole auction bid system is pure shit when you get 1 or 2 assholes who want to abuse it, it's easy to do.
That's true for most of life, not just loot systems
Which is why you don't (or at least shouldn't) see systems that are open to rampant abuse in real life applications, just like you should not see them on a loot system as well.
A LOT of time is dedicated into WoW by it's players, to discount that time spent as any less worthy than other "real life" situations is flawed in my opinion. My "opportunity cost" is very high thank you very much.
You can very easily fix these problem before they arise by adopting a more open and documented system that would be near impossible to argue against. But of course, this is all just my opinion, and I would never join a guild again that had either of these DKP systems in place.
anyway, now I'm in a position of power in a guild moving into 25 mans and we still need a fair system. we've just been /rolling so far. I believe in the potential of dkp systems but I don't know how to ensure that one would be fair. for instance, we want to reward attendance most importantly, but you can't reward attendance and have a zero-sum system at the same time, right?
Can someone link a free and easy to use dkp site their guild has had wild success with? =P
Simple and transparent, is the best way to go in my opinion. I use a ratio based system with a public spreadsheet available for anyone to view. The system works thusly: Each raid attended (defined by a number of hours, in our case three) is a "raid," each piece of gear taken (half cost for offspec and especially bad pieces of gear) is a "loot." Your overall index is simply Raids/Loot, which has the side effect of giving you a useful number (average number of raids each person has gone before receiving new gear)
Because it's a measured ratio-based system instead of a finite number system, new people will catch up to older people quickly, since their ratio will fluctuate rapidly per raid attended and per loot received. As with all defined number systems, you have to do a little policing to prevent hoarding, but it seems to work out well for us.
Bitching: I joined my current guild with both my mage and my paladin. They had plenty of tanks at the time (two tankadins actually), and few mages, so I was asked to have the mage be my main. I'm fine with this, I enjoy playing both and although I'd rather be tanking these encounters, I'm fine with dpsing them.
The problem is, outside of the 25mans, my paladin is more popular whenever guildies are looking to run something. Kara is a prime example of this: I'll log in and see a kara run had already started, and a second kara run is ready to go, they just need somebody to tank it (hint hint).
The problem with DKP systems in relation to WoW is that they were more or less originally developed for EQ where items were shared by far more people than half a dozen per raid.
Because loot distribution in WoW in uneven (by class, shared pieces, etc.) it causes a greater deal more problems in relation to shared loot. With that in mind, the shear volume of loot that drops vs. pre-BC is why DKP systems are becoming more impractical, more from a book-keeping standpoint.
We run a simple 70/90 Loot council 30-day attendance system. Our trial period is ~2 weeks and we still give initiates loot if it's a PvE upgrade vs. PvP items for other people. Heck, some Shammy that was in the guild for 2 days got the Twins PvP neck because it was a PvE upgrade.
People with 70% or higher attendance have roll rights, people over 90% have priority over 70%, and unless someone passes it goes to a /roll 100. People who show up the most get the most loot first, and /rolls can be trumped by officers if they feel someone has gotten more than another member.
The only things that are assigned in any way are legendaries.
The whole auction bid system is pure shit when you get 1 or 2 assholes who want to abuse it, it's easy to do.
That's true for most of life, not just loot systems
Which is why you don't (or at least shouldn't) see systems that are open to rampant abuse in real life applications, just like you should not see them on a loot system as well.
A LOT of time is dedicated into WoW by it's players, to discount that time spent as any less worthy than other "real life" situations is flawed in my opinion. My "opportunity cost" is very high thank you very much.
You can very easily fix these problem before they arise by adopting a more open and documented system that would be near impossible to argue against. But of course, this is all just my opinion, and I would never join a guild again that had either of these DKP systems in place.
Keep in mind, WaveChaser, I said earlier I haven't made more of an effort to get into a "real" guild at least in part because I hate loot drama. I'm not excusing the other systems, I'm making a light joke of the fact that nearly every system to try and enforce fairness is going to be subject to one or two people finding a way to abuse it.
From my experience, Loot Council and bid systems, especially silent bid systems, are the worst systems out there. They are so vulnerable to corruption it really just makes for a situation that will eventually (in most guilds) explode.
I'm curious as to how a silent bid system would be vulnerable to corruption any moreso than anything else?
I've been in a guild with a silent bid system, and I saw rampant abuse of it by the officers and their friends. Here is how it panned out:
OfficerA: Okay, The untamed blade dropped, everyone send me your silent bids.
MemberB Whispers to OfficerA: 50 dkp
OfficerA whispers his friend in the guild MemberC: pssst, MemberB just bid 50 dkp, if you want it, overbid him.
10 seconds pass
OfficerA: And MemberC wins Untamed blade with a bid of 52 dkp! Congrats!!
They would usually overbid by 1 or 2 points, sometimes even 3 to make it seem like they were legitimate bids, but eventually they were found out and SS's were released showing all of this bullshit.
Open bid systems can be just as bad. There was a warrior who had it out for a hunter once, when the hunter bid on the Untamed blade, the warrior bidded just to spite him. The warrior literally made the hunter spend every single dkp point he had, even though the warrior didn't want the sword to begin with. The whole auction bid system is pure shit when you get 1 or 2 assholes who want to abuse it, it's easy to do.
so, why was that warrior not /gkicked instantly for shit like that?
so, why was that warrior not /gkicked instantly for shit like that?
Because he was an IRL friend of the GL.
The whole thing blew up because the Warrior said in the Warrior channel that he was going to fuck with the hunter. Well we all found out about it after the fact, and when confronted, the warrior said "oh I was joking, I really wanted the sword" (even though he totally didn't, he had asscandy). The GL basically said, "well you can't prove he did it maliciously, so sorry, nothing I can do."
Keep in mind this is also the same GL who as a hunter, decided to loot the dragonfang blade to himself over 3 rogues who needed it (myself included) because it was "Dragon themed, and went with his dragonstalker set".
Wavechaser on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited May 2008
i want to hear more bad loot stories
so i typed up a bit of a post about our loot council system
last night we had some people questioning why we gave items to certain people. the funny thing is, no one who actually sent a bid for the item and didn't win it was complaining...it was actually people whose loot didn't even drop. basically to give people an idea of what sort of things we take into consideration for loot
this is the post i put up on our guild forums
Hey guys,
I thought I'd type up a quick post about the loot system we use, and a few details about it, as we haven't really got any information on it anywhere.
Essentially, the system we use is called Loot Council. In its most basic form, basically whenever the loot drops, the officers decide among themselves who gets it. Its not quite as simple as that though, as there's a lot of factors we take into consideration.
You all know the way it works basically, when the item drops, Furo links the item, calls for bids. To you guys, thats where it ends. Officers go to ochat, and loot starts being handed out.
For what goes on behind the scenes, here's what we look at.
For example, say that we are bidding on the tier 5 shoulders, and Mr X sends a bid, as he is wearing his Tier 4 shoulders. In ochat, we would see
[Tier 4 Shoulders] Mr X
Then, we take a number of factors into consideration.
How big an upgrade is it?
Has Mr X gotten a lot of loot lately?
Does Mr X have good attendance?
Good raid attitude? (this is a very broad topic)
Have we got any issues with the person?
Say, for example, that Mr X has been in the guild for a month, and in that time has been to every single raid, Kara, ZA, or 25man, without fail. He shows up to every raid fully repaired, with consumables for himself, and extras on hand if the raid runs long, or to hand out to others. He logs on early enough to be at the summoning stone well in advance of start time. If he's goin to be late, he posts on the forums, and tells an officer, and makes sure that the previous night he logs off fully ready to go, in front of the instance, so that he can log in and get straight inside.
Say, for example, that Mr Y also bids.
[Tier 4 Shoulders] Mr Y
However, Mr Y is a very different kind of raider to Mr X.
He logs on right at raid start time (which is half an hour late), doesn't have any of his consumables on hand, isn't repaired, needs a summon because he is in Orgrimmar, and doesn't have an excuse for why he's late. He also doesn't enchant or gem his gear properly, and is reluctant to follow the advice of his class leader.
Chances are, that the officers would pretty unanimously agree to award the loot to Mr X, especially if Mr Y has received a lot of loot previously.
To those on the outside, who don't notice these kinds of things about you guys, it might seem strange that we awarded the loot to Mr X, especially if it was a bigger upgrade to Mr Y, but we see all of these things that go on, and we take everything into account.
So to sum all of this up, if you want the best possible shot at loot, attend all possible raids, if you can't, give us as much warning as is possible. Be on time to raids, fully repaired with all consumables (food buffs, flasks, elixirs, etc), if you're going to be late, get to the raid instance the night before when you log out, have all your gear fully enchanted and gemmed, and limit the amount you go AFK in raids (we do notice this).
Remember, if you miss out on loot, especially if its a tier piece, remember, it WILL drop again, and if you didn't get it this time, thats one person who you don't have to compete with next time. Don't just stop raiding if you miss out on loot, because then the chance of the item dropping again for you is zero, because you won't be in the raid.
Happy: After being informed by others that you could buy Nether Vortexes from the badge vendor and that they aren't BoP, I quickly upgraded my Warriors sword to it's final installment.
So hot. Not quite on par with the S3 Sword, but pretty damn close and it means a lot less arena point farming.
People with 70% or higher attendance have roll rights, people over 90% have priority over 70%, and unless someone passes it goes to a /roll 100. People who show up the most get the most loot first, and /rolls can be trumped by officers if they feel someone has gotten more than another member.
Goddamn I wish we did this. :rotate: In a way it makes sense because gearing up the people who are going to be there every night ensures that the gear goes toward progression as opposed to Mr One Night a Week Mage. But then other people remain undergeared for longer. Though I guess once the high attendance people get their shit it does trickle down. I dunno. I just hate seeing things like our only Zhar'doom go to a guy who has had about 40% attendance for weeks and just let his account expire cos he doesn't feel like playing now. He should not have taken that, but it was within our loot system, so we gave it to him. It's stupid.
I never understood everyones hate with Sethekk. I love that place and have never really had any problems with it unless running with a mouth-breathing PuG.
Too much repetitive trash for only two bosses, it's annoying. Also trash that fears, which pisses me off as a paladin tank (and previously as a druid tank).
Amusing: Watching a hunter running around getting chased by the ember of al'ar he pulled off the add tank screaming that his FD was on cooldown and the add tank telling him "sorry, out of mana can't taunt it"
Nobody on
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited May 2008
AKA "You pulled aggro, genius, you deal with them. After they kill you the rest of us will clean up your mess."
Too much repetitive trash for only two bosses, it's annoying. Also trash that fears, which pisses me off as a paladin tank (and previously as a druid tank).
And those retarded chain-gun shadowbolt guys on heroic.
Hoping: Am get T6 Hat at some point, so I can swap back to my Vashj gloves, because T6 Holy gloves are CRAP.
Lol(Bitching): Illidan definetly took TWELVE attempts last night. Why do people get dumb after 3 days off from raiding? Confuses me to no end.
More lol: Sunwell trash is still very much > us. Like, it's not "terrible", and we've at least CLEARED to the big dragon bish, but it's just so sloppy. Also, fuck those robots. Fuck them right in the ass. Our casters still aren't very good at the "OKAY, count down from FIVE, start your BIG PEWPEW CAST, and then EXLPODE THE SCOUT." Makes for amusement though.
Too much repetitive trash for only two bosses, it's annoying. Also trash that fears, which pisses me off as a paladin tank (and previously as a druid tank).
there's 3 bosses in there if you bring a druid. I would agree that it's not worth it without doing anzu too.
Too much repetitive trash for only two bosses, it's annoying. Also trash that fears, which pisses me off as a paladin tank (and previously as a druid tank).
One of those mind control totems took over a Warlock in our party, who then used the Warlock AOE Fear...
It had taken us nearly an hour and we were just clearing the second room, I left that group while we were recovering from the wipe.
Too much repetitive trash for only two bosses, it's annoying. Also trash that fears, which pisses me off as a paladin tank (and previously as a druid tank).
there's 3 bosses in there if you bring a druid. I would agree that it's not worth it without doing anzu too.
Too much repetitive trash for only two bosses, it's annoying. Also trash that fears, which pisses me off as a paladin tank (and previously as a druid tank).
there's 3 bosses in there if you bring a druid. I would agree that it's not worth it without doing anzu too.
I'm talking non-heroic, anyway.
For some reason, my rogue got asked to join a regular sethekk at level 65 (I was in the mana tombs queue). And was expected to sap in there. With no points in any talents that improve my sapping range or stealth level.
It went about as well as you'd expect, though we did finish the instance (with me at 1% durability).
The second time I ran it on my rogue, it was one of those mouthbreathing pugs and we couldn't actually finish the last boss because people kept getting caught in the arcane explosion. The third time, an earthquake happened in the middle of it. In Indiana. I'm not in any hurry to go back a fourth time.
Too much repetitive trash for only two bosses, it's annoying. Also trash that fears, which pisses me off as a paladin tank (and previously as a druid tank).
there's 3 bosses in there if you bring a druid. I would agree that it's not worth it without doing anzu too.
I'm talking non-heroic, anyway.
ew, why would anyone do a non-heroic? =P maybe once while leveling...
DiscoZombie on
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Too much repetitive trash for only two bosses, it's annoying. Also trash that fears, which pisses me off as a paladin tank (and previously as a druid tank).
Meh, it's not that bad. It used to be worse before the fear change but I'd use the bubble macro then. Select the fear ones to die first and understand that you won't be AoEing them. That which does not kill us has made a tactical mistake. That which does kill us and doesn't destroy the body hasn't read enough comic books.
Too much repetitive trash for only two bosses, it's annoying. Also trash that fears, which pisses me off as a paladin tank (and previously as a druid tank).
there's 3 bosses in there if you bring a druid. I would agree that it's not worth it without doing anzu too.
I'm talking non-heroic, anyway.
ew, why would anyone do a non-heroic? =P maybe once while leveling...
I've discovered the hard way that there are certain quests that you cannot complete on heroic.
Too much repetitive trash for only two bosses, it's annoying. Also trash that fears, which pisses me off as a paladin tank (and previously as a druid tank).
there's 3 bosses in there if you bring a druid. I would agree that it's not worth it without doing anzu too.
I'm talking non-heroic, anyway.
ew, why would anyone do a non-heroic? =P maybe once while leveling...
Well, seeing as I'm not 70 yet, and also tanking...
Non-heroics aren't bad for rep and ease of large prismatics, anyway. I wish my stupid mage friend was an enchanter. At least when I pug things on my druid alt I can DE everything.
Happy: My guild uses EP/GP, but we rarely ever even have to look up who has priority on something. When somebody needs an up, we pass to them. No one ever suggests that anyone do this, they just do. I think the trick is to get into a guild that genuinely needs the players. I want to progress, so I want my guildies geared up.
In fact, we're thinking of dumping the system entirely for 10 mans and just rolling - since it's more trouble to keep track of then it's worth.
Yeah, EPGP doesn't really work in ten mans. Once you start doing 25 man content, though, it's golden.
Beck on
Lucas's Franklin Badge reflected the lightning back!
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Hate: Terribad social-rank guild members seeing that we're recruiting and getting all uppity and wanting to apply to be raiders. I need to slap some bitches, keep 'em in their place.
Tie-in Hate: The fight I'm going to have to have with a certain other officer cos he doesn't know how to be mean to girls and we're desperate for shadow priests again.
Loot Council is almost always the worst way to assign gear. It's the only way I've lost loot to someone because they were shittier than me. "It's a bigger upgrade for him" is the most bullshit, illogical reason to give someone loot. Ever.
EPGP for life.
As a raider in a 4/6 Sunwell guild with 100% attendance, I disagree with you even though I would get EVERY DROP POSSIBLE I EVER WANT under a backwards DKP system.
If you have a fair loot council it is the best system by a huge and glorious margine. If you happen to be a Hunter or Shaman in T5 and beyond content, you need to suck up the fact that you will not get non-major tier pieces before tanks. Be glad that a few of the T5 and T6 pieces suck (Pants and Gloves for T5, Gloves and Helm for T6).
You do this because without geared tanks and healers you cannot accomplish future encounters. If you have all the content your guild is attempting to achieve on farm then defaulting tank and healer loot is silly, but if you're in a guild trying to accomplish any form of new content you will be held back by DKP system. I promise you this.
DKP systems succeed in doing a lot of inevitabilities in relation to loot distribution. They can (and usually will):
1. Cause people to pass on definite upgrades because it devaules their points in a system, even though something is an upgrade resulting in a lot of Voids.
2. Completely ignore lapses in itemization where lower, or 0 point valued items are better than higher valued items (see: DST, craftable gear, Arena weapons, etc.)
3. Throw new people off the boat. Regardless of how systems decay, if you enter a raid to gear up and everyone had gear, you'll be at a deficit for quite some time. Alternately, if everyone is gaining at the same rate new people go no where in a system where points aren't being spent.
No successful endgame guild uses DKP because it causes further incentive for people not to raid. Not a lot of DKP but still the highest DPS Mage/Rogue/Druid/whatever in the guild? Ride bench, you're not going to get the item you want anyway. Loot systems with values enforce raid dodging mentality.
DKP systems in any format also do not identify 'side deals' between members in terms of either sniping an item from another member for cheap (in DKP more so than static value systems) nor allow for planned itemization paths for people may be able to acquire items you want but simply don't have points for because something else you've been stewing over happened to drop.
We've given people who were on their first raid with us Sunwell drops. You will never see this in an inflated DKP system where people are just looking to drop points to avoid decay.
If you don't have enough trust in your officers to not make stupid loot decisions, maybe you should find another guild.
I'm glad this system works for you, and I know it works for some guilds. But it does have unique challenges, and to be honest, I hate it's secretive nature more than anything. If there were open gear and player discussion inside /g I would feel much more comfortable with the entire set up.
Beck on
Lucas's Franklin Badge reflected the lightning back!
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Hate: Terribad social-rank guild members seeing that we're recruiting and getting all uppity and wanting to apply to be raiders. I need to slap some bitches, keep 'em in their place.
Tie-in Hate: The fight I'm going to have to have with a certain other officer cos he doesn't know how to be mean to girls and we're desperate for shadow priests again.
It might not hurt to give them a shot. We've picked up a couple of solid raiders that way. If you have and proven they suck, then show them your Ike Turner impression.
And a lot of guys have a hard time being mean to girls cause seeing/hearing one cry sucks. Age has given me some discipline over that, and there are situational exceptions but a woman crying has horrible effects on my inner bastard.
Posts
That's true for most of life, not just loot systems
Which is why you don't (or at least shouldn't) see systems that are open to rampant abuse in real life applications, just like you should not see them on a loot system as well.
A LOT of time is dedicated into WoW by it's players, to discount that time spent as any less worthy than other "real life" situations is flawed in my opinion. My "opportunity cost" is very high thank you very much.
You can very easily fix these problem before they arise by adopting a more open and documented system that would be near impossible to argue against. But of course, this is all just my opinion, and I would never join a guild again that had either of these DKP systems in place.
Simple and transparent, is the best way to go in my opinion. I use a ratio based system with a public spreadsheet available for anyone to view. The system works thusly: Each raid attended (defined by a number of hours, in our case three) is a "raid," each piece of gear taken (half cost for offspec and especially bad pieces of gear) is a "loot." Your overall index is simply Raids/Loot, which has the side effect of giving you a useful number (average number of raids each person has gone before receiving new gear)
Because it's a measured ratio-based system instead of a finite number system, new people will catch up to older people quickly, since their ratio will fluctuate rapidly per raid attended and per loot received. As with all defined number systems, you have to do a little policing to prevent hoarding, but it seems to work out well for us.
The problem is, outside of the 25mans, my paladin is more popular whenever guildies are looking to run something. Kara is a prime example of this: I'll log in and see a kara run had already started, and a second kara run is ready to go, they just need somebody to tank it (hint hint).
Because loot distribution in WoW in uneven (by class, shared pieces, etc.) it causes a greater deal more problems in relation to shared loot. With that in mind, the shear volume of loot that drops vs. pre-BC is why DKP systems are becoming more impractical, more from a book-keeping standpoint.
We run a simple 70/90 Loot council 30-day attendance system. Our trial period is ~2 weeks and we still give initiates loot if it's a PvE upgrade vs. PvP items for other people. Heck, some Shammy that was in the guild for 2 days got the Twins PvP neck because it was a PvE upgrade.
People with 70% or higher attendance have roll rights, people over 90% have priority over 70%, and unless someone passes it goes to a /roll 100. People who show up the most get the most loot first, and /rolls can be trumped by officers if they feel someone has gotten more than another member.
The only things that are assigned in any way are legendaries.
Keep in mind, WaveChaser, I said earlier I haven't made more of an effort to get into a "real" guild at least in part because I hate loot drama. I'm not excusing the other systems, I'm making a light joke of the fact that nearly every system to try and enforce fairness is going to be subject to one or two people finding a way to abuse it.
Because he was an IRL friend of the GL.
The whole thing blew up because the Warrior said in the Warrior channel that he was going to fuck with the hunter. Well we all found out about it after the fact, and when confronted, the warrior said "oh I was joking, I really wanted the sword" (even though he totally didn't, he had asscandy). The GL basically said, "well you can't prove he did it maliciously, so sorry, nothing I can do."
Keep in mind this is also the same GL who as a hunter, decided to loot the dragonfang blade to himself over 3 rogues who needed it (myself included) because it was "Dragon themed, and went with his dragonstalker set".
so i typed up a bit of a post about our loot council system
last night we had some people questioning why we gave items to certain people. the funny thing is, no one who actually sent a bid for the item and didn't win it was complaining...it was actually people whose loot didn't even drop. basically to give people an idea of what sort of things we take into consideration for loot
this is the post i put up on our guild forums
I thought I'd type up a quick post about the loot system we use, and a few details about it, as we haven't really got any information on it anywhere.
Essentially, the system we use is called Loot Council. In its most basic form, basically whenever the loot drops, the officers decide among themselves who gets it. Its not quite as simple as that though, as there's a lot of factors we take into consideration.
You all know the way it works basically, when the item drops, Furo links the item, calls for bids. To you guys, thats where it ends. Officers go to ochat, and loot starts being handed out.
For what goes on behind the scenes, here's what we look at.
For example, say that we are bidding on the tier 5 shoulders, and Mr X sends a bid, as he is wearing his Tier 4 shoulders. In ochat, we would see
[Tier 4 Shoulders] Mr X
Then, we take a number of factors into consideration.
How big an upgrade is it?
Has Mr X gotten a lot of loot lately?
Does Mr X have good attendance?
Good raid attitude? (this is a very broad topic)
Have we got any issues with the person?
Say, for example, that Mr X has been in the guild for a month, and in that time has been to every single raid, Kara, ZA, or 25man, without fail. He shows up to every raid fully repaired, with consumables for himself, and extras on hand if the raid runs long, or to hand out to others. He logs on early enough to be at the summoning stone well in advance of start time. If he's goin to be late, he posts on the forums, and tells an officer, and makes sure that the previous night he logs off fully ready to go, in front of the instance, so that he can log in and get straight inside.
Say, for example, that Mr Y also bids.
[Tier 4 Shoulders] Mr Y
However, Mr Y is a very different kind of raider to Mr X.
He logs on right at raid start time (which is half an hour late), doesn't have any of his consumables on hand, isn't repaired, needs a summon because he is in Orgrimmar, and doesn't have an excuse for why he's late. He also doesn't enchant or gem his gear properly, and is reluctant to follow the advice of his class leader.
Chances are, that the officers would pretty unanimously agree to award the loot to Mr X, especially if Mr Y has received a lot of loot previously.
To those on the outside, who don't notice these kinds of things about you guys, it might seem strange that we awarded the loot to Mr X, especially if it was a bigger upgrade to Mr Y, but we see all of these things that go on, and we take everything into account.
So to sum all of this up, if you want the best possible shot at loot, attend all possible raids, if you can't, give us as much warning as is possible. Be on time to raids, fully repaired with all consumables (food buffs, flasks, elixirs, etc), if you're going to be late, get to the raid instance the night before when you log out, have all your gear fully enchanted and gemmed, and limit the amount you go AFK in raids (we do notice this).
Remember, if you miss out on loot, especially if its a tier piece, remember, it WILL drop again, and if you didn't get it this time, thats one person who you don't have to compete with next time. Don't just stop raiding if you miss out on loot, because then the chance of the item dropping again for you is zero, because you won't be in the raid.
-Tyaera
Hate: The Robes dropped off of Arugal, and I lost the roll. With a 95.
Sadness: Business trip is over and I can't use the company plastic anymore.
So hot. Not quite on par with the S3 Sword, but pretty damn close and it means a lot less arena point farming.
Goddamn I wish we did this. :rotate: In a way it makes sense because gearing up the people who are going to be there every night ensures that the gear goes toward progression as opposed to Mr One Night a Week Mage. But then other people remain undergeared for longer. Though I guess once the high attendance people get their shit it does trickle down. I dunno. I just hate seeing things like our only Zhar'doom go to a guy who has had about 40% attendance for weeks and just let his account expire cos he doesn't feel like playing now. He should not have taken that, but it was within our loot system, so we gave it to him. It's stupid.
First boss of Sethekk Halls > BRD! (Thank god I never have to go back to that bird-infested place.)
But you'll miss out on all the awesme "SQUAAAWWWK" dialog!
Happier: That makes for sexy 4-piece
Hoping: Am get T6 Hat at some point, so I can swap back to my Vashj gloves, because T6 Holy gloves are CRAP.
Lol(Bitching): Illidan definetly took TWELVE attempts last night. Why do people get dumb after 3 days off from raiding? Confuses me to no end.
More lol: Sunwell trash is still very much > us. Like, it's not "terrible", and we've at least CLEARED to the big dragon bish, but it's just so sloppy. Also, fuck those robots. Fuck them right in the ass. Our casters still aren't very good at the "OKAY, count down from FIVE, start your BIG PEWPEW CAST, and then EXLPODE THE SCOUT." Makes for amusement though.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
there's 3 bosses in there if you bring a druid. I would agree that it's not worth it without doing anzu too.
One of those mind control totems took over a Warlock in our party, who then used the Warlock AOE Fear...
It had taken us nearly an hour and we were just clearing the second room, I left that group while we were recovering from the wipe.
I'm talking non-heroic, anyway.
For some reason, my rogue got asked to join a regular sethekk at level 65 (I was in the mana tombs queue). And was expected to sap in there. With no points in any talents that improve my sapping range or stealth level.
It went about as well as you'd expect, though we did finish the instance (with me at 1% durability).
The second time I ran it on my rogue, it was one of those mouthbreathing pugs and we couldn't actually finish the last boss because people kept getting caught in the arcane explosion. The third time, an earthquake happened in the middle of it. In Indiana. I'm not in any hurry to go back a fourth time.
ew, why would anyone do a non-heroic? =P maybe once while leveling...
Meh, it's not that bad. It used to be worse before the fear change but I'd use the bubble macro then. Select the fear ones to die first and understand that you won't be AoEing them. That which does not kill us has made a tactical mistake. That which does kill us and doesn't destroy the body hasn't read enough comic books.
I've discovered the hard way that there are certain quests that you cannot complete on heroic.
Well, seeing as I'm not 70 yet, and also tanking...
Non-heroics aren't bad for rep and ease of large prismatics, anyway. I wish my stupid mage friend was an enchanter. At least when I pug things on my druid alt I can DE everything.
Also: Static charge 3 times in a row on me? FUCK YOU, BITCH.
What ended up killing you guys?
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Yeah, EPGP doesn't really work in ten mans. Once you start doing 25 man content, though, it's golden.
Well I'm no expert, but I'm thinking it was the giant demon that did it.
Tie-in Hate: The fight I'm going to have to have with a certain other officer cos he doesn't know how to be mean to girls and we're desperate for shadow priests again.
I'm glad this system works for you, and I know it works for some guilds. But it does have unique challenges, and to be honest, I hate it's secretive nature more than anything. If there were open gear and player discussion inside /g I would feel much more comfortable with the entire set up.
It might not hurt to give them a shot. We've picked up a couple of solid raiders that way. If you have and proven they suck, then show them your Ike Turner impression.
And a lot of guys have a hard time being mean to girls cause seeing/hearing one cry sucks. Age has given me some discipline over that, and there are situational exceptions but a woman crying has horrible effects on my inner bastard.