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Another Way Schools Are Failing Our Kids

AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
edited April 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
Meet Billy, high school student and school buttmonkey.

But what makes Billy's case worse is the the tacit support the bullies received from the teachers and administrators. It's gotten to the point that his parents are suing the district, in addition to the bullies and their families. The question is what can be done?

Well, for starters
  • Teachers and administrators that turn a blind eye to conduct like this should have their credentials revoked. If they don't want to do their jobs, well...we can fix that for them.
  • Often times, bullies like these are jocks, so the school district protects them to compete. Thus, the organizational bodies that they compete under should have the authority to prohibit a player from competing due to conduct.

That story isn't just shameful, it's an indictment of our system. We need to change it.

XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
AngelHedgie on
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Posts

  • whitey9whitey9 Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    You should abreve the story for people so we don't have to read the whole article.

    Related story. I have a friend that taught elementary school in Harlem for a year. She saw a large boy pick up a smaller boy and do that upside down, head between the legs, fall on the ground piledriver. The little kid fell limp and my friend attended to him, screaming for help. He went to the hospital, so she went to the main office to report it, asking to call the police, something. One kid put another kid in the hospital, then he ran off. She knew who he was, so did everybody else.

    When she brought this up with the office, they explained that if they called the police or went any level higher than in school detention, they would have to file a report. File so many reports, and they receive a lower school rating which could possibly mean lower funding or staff punishment. They didn't want that, so they just didn't file.

    whitey9 on
    llcoolwhitey.png
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I refuse to call it bullying. That word conjures associations of wedgies and milk money.

    I call it abuse. Specifically, I like to call it "peer abuse," even though abusers and their victims aren't technically peers - they might both be in school but that's where the similarity ends. Bullying, like all other forms of abuse, is inflicted upon the powerless by the powerful. (Bullies tend to be older and more popular than their victims. In the context of school, they are more powerful.)

    And it's psychologically traumatic. It affects the victim's ability to interact with others socially later in life.

    There needs to be a systemic plan for dealing with peer abuse. The abuser needs to be isolated from the rest of the group, first off, and taken to psychological counseling. They need to be treated as though their behavior is abnormal.

    And, of course, schools need to stop hiding it. My elementary school loved to sweep issues of peer abuse under the rug, because they got all kinds of nifty awards and grants from the state for being so progressive. They didn't want any nasty disciplinary issues tarnishing their sterling reputation.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • TM2 RampageTM2 Rampage Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I think they had a similar attitude towards cheating at my high school. :x

    TM2 Rampage on
  • whitey9whitey9 Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    So offering rewards to schools for reducing bullying seems to do the opposite. What a tragic world we live in.

    whitey9 on
    llcoolwhitey.png
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Both the original article and whitey9's stories are just fucked up.

    shryke on
  • TalkaTalka Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    High school is such a bitch. I was never bullied myself, but I've witnessed many a clique declare war on some innocent dude. It would get ugly, pretty similar to what's in the article.

    On the other hand, we then got a new dean who made a bunch of speeches and policies about cohesion, honor, integrity, decency, etc. Sounds bullshity now, but it was all really well-managed at the time and even the bully/jock/dicks sort of accepted it. Things turned up, for my grade and apparently all the younger ones too. So I don't think it's hopeless, it just takes fixing.

    Talka on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    For me the problem is that the teachers usually have no idea what to do in case of these acts of random violence. Half of them will go "eh, kids will be kids" the other half got bullied when they were of the same age and they still have no idea what to do against it.

    Bullies should learn that what they do is unacceptable in a modern society, most do not. Often you see acts of bullying brushed away with a "I was just joking, ya know!", never mind the very real consequences this has on people on the receiving end of the stick (often literally).

    I never got bullied as bad as the guy in the article in the OP, but I have been beaten up/had my stuff stolen/etc without any consequences to the bullies. For as far as I am aware my bullies never grew up, one of them still calls me names whenever I see him, I was in class with him 5 years ago.

    Aldo on
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Is buttmonkey a technical term?

    Bloods End on
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I find it comforting to know that I'm not the only one who has suffered at the hands of bullies that have gone unpunished by the system. But I must admit, every time I see an incident of peer abuse like kind this Wolfe kid is experiencing on a regular basis, it makes my blood fucking boil. I really don't understand why schools aren't quick to stamp this shit out. It makes no sense to me.

    Hacksaw on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    I find it comforting to know that I'm not the only one who has suffered at the hands of bullies that have gone unpunished by the system. But I must admit, every time I see an incident of peer abuse like kind this Wolfe kid is experiencing on a regular basis, it makes my blood fucking boil. I really don't understand why schools aren't quick to stamp this shit out. It makes no sense to me.
    Once profit margins and reputations are at stake schools go into "lalalalaIcanthearyooouuuu"-mode. It's not typical for the US, it's the same over here.

    Aldo on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I honestly don't realize how I managed to not be bullied, because I was like the most typical target ever.

    Fencingsax on
  • DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    The bullying in my school was only verbal, and was pretty weak, all things considered. It was still hurtful, but you look back at it now and I can only laugh at how silly and unoriginal they were. I'm just pleased that those people have gone nowhere in life. They're all either working in the same small town they grew up in, or dropping out of college and having babies in poor neighborhoods.

    No one threw any punches, oddly enough. The ones who did were the girls. That's right, the females got into constant fist fights, quite often brutal. One even smashed another's car up and stole her CD player, all in town where the average class size was only 30 people. The guys did absolutely nothing to each other aside from throwing words around. I guess I was lucky.

    Dashui on
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  • DalbozDalboz Resident Puppy Eater Right behind you...Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    While I'm sympathetic to kids who are bullied and outraged at the systems that do nothing to curtail it, I'm getting the feeling that we're not getting the whole story from the NYT article. One red flag that flew up was that Billy's teachers were saying that, while he's a "sweet kid," his own behavior has been referred to as disruptive and disrespectful. Whether that's because of the bullying or not, I obviously can't say based on the information presented. However, let's face the fact that there are a small percentage that attract negative attention by their own behavior, deliberate or not. I'm not condoning any kind of bullying or not, I'm just saying that jumping to conclusions about the cause may not actually address it properly in all cases. There's just something about this one that doesn't sit right with me.

    I was never really bullied in school. I was a nerd, but I was also a nerd who worked out and was probably in as good if not better shape than some of the school athletes, so I pretty much scared away any potential bullies because they weren't sure if I could kick the shit out them or hack the computers to change their records (or whatever people thought nerds were capable of back in the early '90s). I did have one instance where one kid was trying to pick on me at and after school. Then, one day after school, he tried to charge me on his bike. I waited until the last second, jumped to the side and kicked his wheel out from under him, causing him to hit the sidewalk hard and tearing up his arm pretty good. He never bothered me after that.

    Dalboz on
  • wabbitehwabbiteh Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Dalboz wrote: »
    While I'm sympathetic to kids who are bullied and outraged at the systems that do nothing to curtail it, I'm getting the feeling that we're not getting the whole story from the NYT article. One red flag that flew up was that Billy's teachers were saying that, while he's a "sweet kid," his own behavior has been referred to as disruptive and disrespectful. Whether that's because of the bullying or not, I obviously can't say based on the information presented. However, let's face the fact that there are a small percentage that attract negative attention by their own behavior, deliberate or not. I'm not condoning any kind of bullying or not, I'm just saying that jumping to conclusions about the cause may not actually address it properly in all cases. There's just something about this one that doesn't sit right with me.

    On the other hand, it's possible that his disruptive/poor behaviour is caused by the bullying. At his age, with a long history of bullying and no chance to build up his fortitude, he could end up acting poorly in response. The article said that his grades began to drop - so it seems like it's been a slow change in behaviour rather than an ingrained personal trait.

    Kid's basically screwed, really. Three solutions: someone makes a damn fine speech to the dicks that keep abusing him; he somehow manages to "man up" and bring himself above all of it... which is basically asking him to emotionally develop into a 20 year old overnight; or he moves.

    I'd really like to see the police/courts get involved in this, and actually have punishments handed out. If the kids are going to screw with someone's mental state this much and actually abuse them, then they're going to have to step up to the big leagues. On the other hand, most of them are fairly young, and kind of clueless. Just *something* that clues them into the magnitude of how not normal this is, and how much society looks down on them for it; something that displays the utter stupidity they will feel in 10 years.

    wabbiteh on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    wabbiteh wrote: »
    something that displays the utter stupidity they will feel in 10 years.
    This is assuming these jerks will ever learn that bullying is wrong on their own. :P

    Aldo on
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    That story's pretty messed up. How the hell can someone "deserve" to get bullied?
    One would expect the bullies to knock it off if you're not just a receptive bullee(or whatever).Personally, I haven't really been bullied, and the only time a guy tried to take a swing at me I ended up kicking his ass, so that might've had an effect on it.

    It's still pretty fucked up that the teachers aren't just turning a blind eye, but they seem to side with the bullies. If this Wolfe kid would manage to make friends with someone that the bullies wouldn't be so eager to bother, it would probably help the situation. I'd expect bullies to start thinking twice if their behaviour had consequences (getting their ass kicked, disciplinary action by school, anything really).
    Aldo wrote: »
    wabbiteh wrote: »
    something that displays the utter stupidity they will feel in 10 years.
    This is assuming these jerks will ever learn that bullying is wrong on their own. :P

    Perhaps if they were in the receiving end for once?

    Rhan9 on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Sometimes I had the feeling that bullies lacked empathy. Other times I assumed that bullies were really insecure about themselves and tried to forge a persona by beating me up. They think it's cool to beat up the Wolfes among us. The problem is: others think it's cool as well.

    Another kid wasn't very popular either, but he did everything in his power to be liked by the "cool guys" (unlike me, I hated them and considered them inferior to me). He got it in his mind that as long as he punched me very hard, the cool kids would like him. And it worked, they started to tolerate him more the more he beat me up. Of course, he was still on the receiving end, but at least he was allowed to hang out with them.

    Aldo on
  • TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    This story makes a mockery of the system. I honestly felt sick reading it.

    TheCrumblyCracker on
  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Dalboz wrote: »
    Then, one day after school, he tried to charge me on his bike. I waited until the last second, jumped to the side and kicked his wheel out from under him, causing him to hit the sidewalk hard and tearing up his arm pretty good. He never bothered me after that.

    Yeah man, you cant let them fuck with you. Cock off to them, get in a fight or two, people leave you alone. As long as they have it in their heads that you arent just gonna take it then you are good to go.

    Its still pretty messed up though. Are our schools that underfunded that they cant afford to lose their "good behavior" grants or whatever they call them?

    JebusUD on
    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
  • duallainduallain Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I don't think that, as the title suggests, it is simply a failing of the schools that allows this type of behavior to go on but rather a cultural attitude that these acts are perpetuated under. While the school certainly ought to be changing what it's doing (punishing the people committing these acts) nothing really happens in a vacuum, the wider society at large is most likely informing the actions of the bullies as well as the victims. Bullying in general is done by groups of kids to singular kids, it's the traditional Us vs. Them dichotomy, I don't really see it going away, but as the OP suggested actually punishing the people responsible might be a good first step.

    Another angle is, what prevents bullying from happening to people once they are out of public schooling institutions (if it actually does stop). The ability to simply walk away is some of it. The ability of people to find social groups outside of the borders of something as arbitrary as a high school probably helps, but isn't part of it that if any of the incidents were to happen between two 18+ individuals there would be a court proceeding and likely jail time for someone? I'm not advocating these folks be prosecuted as if they are fully responsible adults, but damn if someone hitting another person with a 2x4 shouldn't get you locked away for a couple of days no matter who you are.

    TL;DR it ain't the schools fault, it's our society.

    duallain on
  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    duallain wrote: »
    TL;DR it ain't the schools fault, it's our society.

    Yeah, I hear that. Who raises these little proto-douchebags?

    JebusUD on
    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
  • TavTav Irish Minister for DefenceRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Just two weeks ago a guy in my school (16) dropped out because he was being constantly bullied. He wasn't the brightest in the school by any means, partly the reason he was bullied, but even doing badly in school now is better then dropping out since you can't even get an apprenticeship here without finishing school first. It makes me feel unwell thinking about it, since the school did nothing other then say "Oh well, boys will be boys" and then dropped the matter completely.

    Tav on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Dalboz wrote: »
    Then, one day after school, he tried to charge me on his bike. I waited until the last second, jumped to the side and kicked his wheel out from under him, causing him to hit the sidewalk hard and tearing up his arm pretty good. He never bothered me after that.

    Yeah man, you cant let them fuck with you. Cock off to them, get in a fight or two, people leave you alone. As long as they have it in their heads that you arent just gonna take it then you are good to go.

    Its still pretty messed up though. Are our schools that underfunded that they cant afford to lose their "good behavior" grants or whatever they call them?

    This certainly helps. Never take shit from anyone.

    Now if only it was easy to actually fight back. Often you're outnumbered, other times you're going to get punished for fighting back. Fuck, I got suspended twice for punching someone back. :|

    Aldo on
  • duallainduallain Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Aldo wrote: »
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Dalboz wrote: »
    Then, one day after school, he tried to charge me on his bike. I waited until the last second, jumped to the side and kicked his wheel out from under him, causing him to hit the sidewalk hard and tearing up his arm pretty good. He never bothered me after that.

    Yeah man, you cant let them fuck with you. Cock off to them, get in a fight or two, people leave you alone. As long as they have it in their heads that you arent just gonna take it then you are good to go.

    Its still pretty messed up though. Are our schools that underfunded that they cant afford to lose their "good behavior" grants or whatever they call them?

    This certainly helps. Never take shit from anyone.

    Now if only it was easy to actually fight back. Often you're outnumbered, other times you're going to get punished for fighting back. Fuck, I got suspended twice for punching someone back. :|


    Ender's Game style; just kill one of 'em!
    Violence=bad

    duallain on
  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Aldo wrote: »

    This certainly helps. Never take shit from anyone.

    Now if only it was easy to actually fight back. Often you're outnumbered, other times you're going to get punished for fighting back. Fuck, I got suspended twice for punching someone back. :|


    Meh, It was probably worth it.

    JebusUD on
    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Aldo wrote: »
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Dalboz wrote: »
    Then, one day after school, he tried to charge me on his bike. I waited until the last second, jumped to the side and kicked his wheel out from under him, causing him to hit the sidewalk hard and tearing up his arm pretty good. He never bothered me after that.

    Yeah man, you cant let them fuck with you. Cock off to them, get in a fight or two, people leave you alone. As long as they have it in their heads that you arent just gonna take it then you are good to go.

    Its still pretty messed up though. Are our schools that underfunded that they cant afford to lose their "good behavior" grants or whatever they call them?

    This certainly helps. Never take shit from anyone.

    Now if only it was easy to actually fight back. Often you're outnumbered, other times you're going to get punished for fighting back. Fuck, I got suspended twice for punching someone back. :|

    What the hell? That sucks. Suspending people for fighting back. What are you supposed to do? Be a good little kid and take your abuse without whining?

    Also, being a loner isn't in your favor when it comes to bullies. Having some sort of a group, even if it's a loose friendship with other such "losers" or "nerds" or something discourages bullying. Safety in numbers and all that. Understandably, it'd be very difficult to do something about it if you're pretty much shunned like the kid in the article.

    Rhan9 on
  • wawkinwawkin Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    A few things bother me...

    From the OP's original post:
    I do not agree that a teacher's job is to constantly police students. I am not going to fault them for circumstances that society has placed beyond their control. Teachers cannot touch students without being sued and yelling is ineffective. Other than send them to the disciplinary (dean of students or prinicipal), what else do we really expect them to do?

    Dalboz wrote something to the effect of: two sides to every story,
    I agree, the given details do not add up to the situation. I was a constant target for bullies. I have had friends that were targets of bullies. I have personal exprience and third party experience in such dealings. In neither, have I encountered a bully that was unprovoked when physical violence entered the equation. Perhaps this situation is different, perhaps not.

    The 'Ender Wiggin' approach had always been my method, and an effective one. However, as you age, the consequences to that approach increase. Once you are no longer a minor in the eyes of the law, this approach ceases being an option. During middle school I learned how to deflect bullies and that skill continues to be of use. Billy Wolfe has yet to aquire that skill, despite his history. I fail to see how that can be anyones fault but his own.

    Callus as my words appear, I reason them to be truthful. Even at the youngest of ages, there are two options when confronted with potential danger: confront it or run from it. By a person's pre-teen years, they should have developed the necessary social skills to develop the third option in dealing with potential danger: deflect it.

    wawkin on
    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • wawkinwawkin Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    What the hell? That sucks. Suspending people for fighting back. What are you supposed to do? Be a good little kid and take your abuse without whining?

    While I agree with you Rhan9, I encourage you too take a good look at society and the behaviour it promotes. How often is 'fighting back' encouraged? By the parents? By the school's staff? Isn't a person, woeful to break rules or go against what authorities tell him, likely to opt for the path of least resistance?

    wawkin on
    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Wawkin, did you just say you got bullied because you had it comin'? I mean, geez, they might have given a reason to pick on you, but all reasons I ever heard were complete bullocks. :|

    Aldo on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    wawkin wrote: »
    A few things bother me...

    From the OP's original post:
    I do not agree that a teacher's job is to constantly police students. I am not going to fault them for circumstances that society has placed beyond their control. Teachers cannot touch students without being sued and yelling is ineffective. Other than send them to the disciplinary (dean of students or prinicipal), what else do we really expect them to do?

    Dalboz wrote something to the effect of: two sides to every story,
    I agree, the given details do not add up to the situation. I was a constant target for bullies. I have had friends that were targets of bullies. I have personal exprience and third party experience in such dealings. In neither, have I encountered a bully that was unprovoked when physical violence entered the equation. Perhaps this situation is different, perhaps not.

    The 'Ender Wiggin' approach had always been my method, and an effective one. However, as you age, the consequences to that approach increase. Once you are no longer a minor in the eyes of the law, this approach ceases being an option. During middle school I learned how to deflect bullies and that skill continues to be of use. Billy Wolfe has yet to aquire that skill, despite his history. I fail to see how that can be anyones fault but his own.

    Callus as my words appear, I reason them to be truthful. Even at the youngest of ages, there are two options when confronted with potential danger: confront it or run from it. By a person's pre-teen years, they should have developed the necessary social skills to develop the third option in dealing with potential danger: deflect it.
    Yes, let's blame the victim here. That solves everything. Let me guess, it's also his fault for rising to the bait right?

    Fencingsax on
  • wawkinwawkin Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Aldo wrote: »
    Wawkin, did you just say you got bullied because you had it comin'? I mean, geez, they might have given a reason to pick on you, but all reasons I ever heard were complete bullocks. :|

    Maybe I was unclear. Bullying happens for, as you put it, bullocks reasons. My claim is that when the bullying escalates to physical violence, it is usually due to provocation.

    wawkin on
    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    wawkin wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    Wawkin, did you just say you got bullied because you had it comin'? I mean, geez, they might have given a reason to pick on you, but all reasons I ever heard were complete bullocks. :|

    Maybe I was unclear. Bullying happens for, as you put it, bullocks reasons. My claim is that when the bullying escalates to physical violence, it is usually due to provocation.

    That's such bullshit. There is never a decent reason to punch someone's lungs out during lunch break.

    Aldo on
  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    wawkin wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    Wawkin, did you just say you got bullied because you had it comin'? I mean, geez, they might have given a reason to pick on you, but all reasons I ever heard were complete bullocks. :|

    Maybe I was unclear. Bullying happens for, as you put it, bullocks reasons. My claim is that when the bullying escalates to physical violence, it is usually due to provocation.

    Maybe provocation of the bullied physicaly. Is bullying, non physicaly, not itself provocation?

    JebusUD on
    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
  • wawkinwawkin Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    wawkin wrote: »
    A few things bother me...

    From the OP's original post:
    I do not agree that a teacher's job is to constantly police students. I am not going to fault them for circumstances that society has placed beyond their control. Teachers cannot touch students without being sued and yelling is ineffective. Other than send them to the disciplinary (dean of students or prinicipal), what else do we really expect them to do?

    Dalboz wrote something to the effect of: two sides to every story,
    I agree, the given details do not add up to the situation. I was a constant target for bullies. I have had friends that were targets of bullies. I have personal exprience and third party experience in such dealings. In neither, have I encountered a bully that was unprovoked when physical violence entered the equation. Perhaps this situation is different, perhaps not.

    The 'Ender Wiggin' approach had always been my method, and an effective one. However, as you age, the consequences to that approach increase. Once you are no longer a minor in the eyes of the law, this approach ceases being an option. During middle school I learned how to deflect bullies and that skill continues to be of use. Billy Wolfe has yet to aquire that skill, despite his history. I fail to see how that can be anyones fault but his own.

    Callus as my words appear, I reason them to be truthful. Even at the youngest of ages, there are two options when confronted with potential danger: confront it or run from it. By a person's pre-teen years, they should have developed the necessary social skills to develop the third option in dealing with potential danger: deflect it.
    Yes, let's blame the victim here. That solves everything. Let me guess, it's also his fault for rising to the bait right?

    “I hate victims who respect their executioners.” -Jean-Paul Sartre

    wawkin on
    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • DiscGraceDiscGrace Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    wawkin is incorrect that it's illegal for teachers to touch students when they're fighting - first you're supposed to try to get your body between the fighters, as a lot of times the presence of a teacher is enough to break that shit up. But if it continues to escalate, and there's another teacher handy to grab the second fighter so that the two of you can pull them apart (and so there's a witness to what happens) you should definitely do that. You absolutely NOT supposed to watch two students just whale on each other.

    And yeah, hard as it might be sometimes, it IS my job as a teacher to police students. Because my job is to help them learn, and in order to learn they need a safe environment.

    DiscGrace on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Pants ManPants Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    bullying is really tough to deal with for students, but it's oftentimes even harder for teachers to deal with.

    during student teaching i stepped in and broke up a fight between two of my students, and the first thing that happened to me when i told another teacher about it was that i got reamed out for breaking it up myself.

    parents are so fucking litigious and obsessed with the idea that their child might get screwed by the system that it handcuffs the ability of teachers and administrators to do their jobs. we could stop bullying for the most part if we were allowed to go after the kids who are doing it without all the bullshit involved, but unfortunately there are team meetings, meetings with psychologists and counselors, peer intervention, blah blah blah whatever. 90% of the time i love that shit, because most students need that support network, and having parents and students and teachers involved definitely helps.

    but there are cases where kids are just outright assholes who need to be suspended/expelled. teachers shouldn't have to wait until an actual fight breaks out to get these kids out of the classroom.

    again, parents have brought this on themselves and their kids by theatening to sue every time a kid gets pushed down at recess. zero tolerance policies are insane and draconian, but they're about the only thing that prevents a school from landing in hot water every time there's an incident.

    Pants Man on
    "okay byron, my grandma has a right to be happy, so i give you my blessing. just... don't get her pregnant. i don't need another mom."
  • wawkinwawkin Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Aldo wrote: »
    wawkin wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    Wawkin, did you just say you got bullied because you had it comin'? I mean, geez, they might have given a reason to pick on you, but all reasons I ever heard were complete bullocks. :|

    Maybe I was unclear. Bullying happens for, as you put it, bullocks reasons. My claim is that when the bullying escalates to physical violence, it is usually due to provocation.

    That's such bullshit. There is never a decent reason to punch someone's lungs out during lunch break.

    Didn't say there was.

    wawkin on
    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • wawkinwawkin Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    DiscGrace wrote: »
    wawkin is incorrect that it's illegal for teachers to touch students when they're fighting - first you're supposed to try to get your body between the fighters, as a lot of times the presence of a teacher is enough to break that shit up. But if it continues to escalate, and there's another teacher handy to grab the second fighter so that the two of you can pull them apart (and so there's a witness to what happens) you should definitely do that. You absolutely NOT supposed to watch two students just whale on each other.

    And yeah, hard as it might be sometimes, it IS my job as a teacher to police students. Because my job is to help them learn, and in order to learn they need a safe environment.

    Ah. I was under the impression that laws governing the physical contact between students and teachers were more strict.

    wawkin on
    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    wawkin wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    wawkin wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    Wawkin, did you just say you got bullied because you had it comin'? I mean, geez, they might have given a reason to pick on you, but all reasons I ever heard were complete bullocks. :|

    Maybe I was unclear. Bullying happens for, as you put it, bullocks reasons. My claim is that when the bullying escalates to physical violence, it is usually due to provocation.

    That's such bullshit. There is never a decent reason to punch someone's lungs out during lunch break.

    Didn't say there was.

    ...

    Fuck it, I'm not going to guess what the hell you're trying to say.

    Aldo on
  • DiscGraceDiscGrace Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Our standard of duty includes not standing there and watching a student lose teeth to another student.

    DiscGrace on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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