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Another Way Schools Are Failing Our Kids
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Having been on the receiving end of both kinds I'll take the violence thanks.
Just like the best way to get rapists to stop is to rape them. That's why sexual assault has such a low rate of recidivism among felons who have finished their prison terms or been released on parole after getting their ass plugged by manbears for several years.
Don't forget Ireland v.Britain, and Israel v. Palestine.
I like my example because a lot of the motivations behind it are the same as those behind bullying.
If people refuse to leave you alone and cannot be taught to respect you. You are left with no choice but to make them fear you.
...Yeah because as opposed to cheering on the bully and making fun of the poor victim like most high school kids they should all band together to defend the poor kid like some kinda sappy after school special. Most teenagers arent even sure who they are, let alone brave enough to stand up for someone else. Especially when it opens them up to ridicule as the crowd now turns on them.
The "cool" guys are usually the biggest dicks who are looked up to because they do pick on others, and the women want to date them because they are the "alpha" males.
Since we cant change schoolyard dynamics then we have to stop the problem with fear. Fear that their parents will beat their asses if they dont stop picking on billy the wonder victim, or fear billy the wonder victim will fight back. Bullies attack the weakest target, since this has gone on for so long its obvious they arent being punished so they continue to do it. Because there are no consequences.
My advice, grab a 2x4 in wood shop and beat the living shit out of one of them. Maybe have to do that 2 or 3 times but it will solve the problem.
Perhaps they might even have some kinda catchy name like "Dad" or "Mom".
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Oh those wouldn't work, you just finished telling me that we have no control over schoolyard social-conventions.
This problem is either going to end with violence, or parenting. So far parenting has failed and its running out of time.
Bullies dont stop being bullies at 18, or 21, or really ever until they learn to treat people with respect, OR that their is someone stronger who kill kick their ass for not treating people with respect. Its sad, but its human nature. Hold overs from our hunter gatherer, only the strong survive, cave man society.
Actually, that much is not really necessary. All that's needed is for the bullies intended audience to watch disinterestedly and not smilingly, and shake their heads dismissively, and communicate via body language that they're bored/disgusted.
All that's needed is for teens to have some empathy and respect for people they don't know, but that's not quite common.
Little known fact: most of the Rwandan genocide was carried out by kids 13-17 years of age with machetes.
I disagree with you a bit. Consequences have to be forthcoming, but I think you're being a bit harsh on both kids and the solution needed.
I'm blessed in going to a private school that was fairly selective (intelligence wise) in choosing people. And to be honest, bullying is not that huge. Sure there's a bunch of passive aggressive bullshit (there always is) but meanness is for the most part socially frowned upon.
Authority figures just need to stop sadistic behaviour and I guess at the root, sadism in kids. When they're younger, focus on empathy. When they're older, do not tolerate blatant, teasing/attacks.
Yes, there's usually something better bullying victims could do, but that's completely besides the point, they're not guilty of anything. 'Tis the ones creating the problems that should be dealt with. Not the ones who were in a position to "possibly-if-they-played-everything-perfectly-prevent-them."
One, I don't see what people are expecting the school to do in this case. He is being bullied repeatedly, yes. However, it seems he is being bullied by different kids each time. Is the school supposed to hire him a body guard? They can punish students who do things, but preemptive tactics just don't work. I'm sure everyone in here listened to every spiel the teachers went on. Don't do drugs, don't have sex, don't bully... etc... etc...
If bullying is a problem in this town, then the blame goes to the parents and the culture there. Blaming the school and "the system" is a poor proposition.
I say this from the point of view of someone who has gone through bullying as well. I moved between cities from junior high to high school, from a city of about 400,000 to a town of 60,000. In my old school, I did well and played quite well with others. When I moved to the new town, I was still very outgoing - a bit too much. I didn't get along great with everybody, but I had friends. However, I slowly fell into a bit of bullying from a couple of assholes who just didn't quit. Part of the reason behind it was my lack of respect for seniority. There were a number of factors in there. Fighting became more common and I was a pretty athletic kid - so I gave a good as I got, but that was definitely the wrong thing to do. It being a small town though, a couple people upset me trickled down to others until it was just unbearable to go to school due to constant harassment. I ended up transferring schools and turning out ok.
The thing is - there was nothing the school could do in the situation. Either I changed or people changed. A school forcing kids to change doesn't change a bit about how they act outside of school - where the majority of interaction happens. They can't make people be your friends and sometimes being bullied is better than outright being ignored (thats my opinion anyways. I'd imagine it'd differ depending on the level of bullying).
Now, keeping that in mind, I still feel this was a bullshit article. It is clearly biased towards the kid being 'bullied' and at the end of the day - this is a kid that tears pages out of textbooks rather than return them to teachers. This is bush league journalism and degrades into a he-said-she-said argument with no facts, simply on side.
This stance does not change if the abusing party is actually four, or fourteen, or forty children. I don't understand why "Oh, but there's more than one!" is a rationalization for why action can't be taken against the offenders instead of the victim.
Excuses hell, this kid has been picked on for years. I would be amazed if he hasnt already developed severe mental and emotional problems that will follow him the rest of his life. So far the school has failed to do anything, the parents of the other children have failed to do anything, im merely stating that at some point they are going to push him to far.
Every human being has a breaking point, if they push him to his ill have a hard time finding sympathy for whatever he does to them.
No, you're actually actively arguing in support of him going too far. That's not the same thing as pointing out an inevitability (which isn't really inevitable either). Your advice is for him to grab a 2x4 and start smacking people around. I bet that's totally not going to escalate anything or land him in jail facing felony assault-charges either.
Yeah, it is pretty sad and hardly a satisfactory solution. I was just saying that fighting back with your tormentors is probably better than just taking it while the administration does nothing.
It surely isnt the optimal condition though. And it is still not the victims fault.
but they're listening to every word I say
Alternative Options: Call the Newspaper, Talk to the Local News Station, ask to speak at a PTA meeting, set up a meeting with the Superintendent of your County/School District. Get help from your parents, if they don't want anything to do with it get help from a counselor, a pastor, a friend's parents, grandparents, etc. etc. etc.
A lot of times you can get the story beyond the walls of the school and into the public eye where the administration doesn't want it. Sometimes It can make them act.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
yeah, maybe if your parents support you. Counselors, eh, thats more iffy. If they didnt do somthing about it already then they are probably part of the problem. And if you are in middle school you probably dont/ cant call the newspaper or talk at the PTA meeting without your parents support.
but they're listening to every word I say
After reading over othr answers and rereading my own, I believe I've discovered the fundamental difference in viewpoints.
I am very much of the opinion that a person should be self-reliant, regardless of circumstance. Perhaps it is a by-product of how I was raised.
Not being self-reliant, forces you necessarily to be dependent. Obviously, as a kid, you are reliant on parents/family and figures representing authority in our society for your protection. Our social system is set-up in that manner. It forces dependence in certain matters; in this case: protection.
I see a lot of 'what should be done' and 'how to prevent this in the future' and 'this should not be aloud to happen'. None of these considerations are relevant. The situation has and is happening.
Read the article again.
The kid has been getting bullied for years now. He has told the people that he depends on to protect him. They have prevented nothing. It is four years later and he is still getting bullied.
You can complain and point the finger at the school and the parents. They are rightfully blaimed for not preventing this situation. You can point the finger at the bully/bullies, they are in the wrong for this situation. There are plenty of people involved and plenty of blame to place on all of them, for this situation.
But blaming people doesn't solve anything.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda, DIDNT. That sums up every solution or possible solution that involves Billy depending on someone else for his protection thus far. The fact that he is in the situation, I can agree, is not his fault. It is unfair and perhaps incredibly unlucky. But he is in the situation. And his protectors have failed in their supposed duty. I just don't see another option for the kid other than 'manning up' and for (probably) for the first time in his life, rely on only himself to solve the problem. The fact that this problem has persisted for four years tells me he is unwilling to attempt self-reliance and that is why I condem him.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
Those are definitely good options to consider. That comes across as forcing the issue with the people who are suppose to protect you. If you cannot protect yourself, being the squeaky wheel is a good method to follow.
That's also why I wish there were some sort of follow-up on the situation. See if publicity motivated action on the part of the school and perhaps more agressive action on the part of the parents.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
And in a way this would go along with the thought of standing up for yourself. You might not be able to compete physically with said bully, but taking the proactive approach and not stopping till someone helps you/does something about it would show a lot of maturity, and sadly I don't know many highschool/middleschool students who would press the issue if the got the initial shaft.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
I think you need to read the article again. The group of kids harassing him vastly outnumbers him, and you think he should start a fight in that context. In addition to it being insane to expect everyone who gets picked on to be Rambo, it is also insane to expect everyone who gets picked on to be Custer.
I get the feeling that you really REALLY don't understand what happens when people are victimized. Hey, it's great you think everything is so simple and that throwing a few punches solves problems. My belief is that if he starts fighting back, he'll have to fight all the time.
Can you even grasp the idea that there is enough kids who want to hurt him that they organize themselves through facebook? That they record beating him up for bragging about later on? This is not some schoolyard tussle. This is the systematic torture and abuse of a lone individual by a large group.
I think you can fuck right off with your "Billy is dumb if he doesn't just teach EVERY OTHER FUCKING KID IN THE SCHOOL a lesson." How many fights would he be in before he gets expelled or outright charged. It's a no win situation no matter how much you want to say it's not.
So tell us more about your e-peen is so fuckin' huge. The whole robotic objective tone you're forcing down a funnel onto the posts helps, really. Now it's not just an e-peen, it's a robo e-peen due to objectivist apathy towards the suffering of others! Fuck yeah or something.
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So far no one has denied that standing up to bullies can work in some cases. I've been watching for that claim so that I could smash it, and it hasn't come up. However that's entirely situation-dependent. In my situation the kids who tried to start shit with me didn't have popular-support, and I'm pretty clearly fucked in the head, at that time in my life anger-management in particular was a problem. So when one of the bullies decided to escalate to physicality instead of just calling me names he found himself held on his toes against a locker by my arm across his throat, and he did never bother me again. This was only possible, however, because as I mentioned the bully lacked popular-support, and because I'm off my fucking nut. It is unreasonable for me to expect every bullying situation to be like mine, it is outright stupid for me to expect everyone who gets bullied to be as psychologically fucked up as I am. This isn't really arguing against you, Nova_C, I just thought the anecdote might give some kind of useful perspective to the conversation.
I don't disagree, VC. In the case of one on one bullying, certainly standing up for oneself can, and usually is, effective. But Wawkin wants Billy to stand against a large group of kids who've organized themselves in order to keep him powerless. And powerless he will remain no matter what he does unless those with greater power (IE, the police) step in to protect him.
That would be why I keep calling his expectations crazy.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."