Comics shipping 3/26/08

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  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Keith wrote: »
    http://www.wizarduniverse.com/032508xena.html

    hahahahahaha

    i didn't read it, but the concept is hilarious

    Well, I'm convinced! Thanks, Keith.

    Wildcat on
  • DMACDMAC Moderator mod
    edited March 2008
    Bloods End wrote: »
    For Vector being a crossover I have absolutley no idea whats crossing over in it. And the artist needs to be fired, STAT.

    Haven't read the new issue but my impression was that it wasn't so much a "crossover" as a story that continues across the 4 different titles/time periods.

    DMAC on
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2008
    Blue Beetle, GL, USM, Ultimate Human, and Ultimate Iron Man II when they get another copy in.

    Me Too! on
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Huh. Evidently alot of the art from New Avengers is almost a Landian ripoff of Adam Hughes.

    thats a dick thing to do.

    Bloods End on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    It was intentional (he refrenced some Maleev Daredevils too)

    Here is what Mack says (heavy spoilers for the issue)
    Mack wrote:
    New Avengers #39
    SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

    Please don’t read this until after you have read the issue.


    Now that the book is out, I'll explain my thought
    process and intentions behind this, and you can consider
    for your self beyond that. I couldn't comment on this
    in the same detail before without spoiling some
    reveals in Brian's story.

    Ok, again… Spoilers. Everyone has read the issue right?

    When Daredevil appears in this story, he is actually a Shape-mimicking skrull. I've drawn Daredevil before, but I have not drawn him as a Skrull before. Instead of just drawing a normal Daredevil in the story , I thought I could create an eerie hint of his skrull-ness in the image of him that may not be apparent immediately, but in the context of reading the story, after you see the reveal of DD as a skrull ,you may turn back and get it.

    I thought it would be a subversive storytelling device to make each image of Daredevil based on an image of the actual Daredevil drawn in DD by DD artists. He'll look like DD but in the back of your mind you kind of think something is a little strange here. He's stiffer, he's smiling at the wrong
    time...maybe in the back of your mind he's more like a mimic of the Daredevil you are used to seeing instead of the actual Daredevil comfortable in his own skin. That’s why I started with that iconic cover image of DD and even telegraphed it by using the similar buildings. You don't necessarily pick up on this immediately in the story, but maybe he seems to act and look a little off...and then when the reveal happens and you go back
    and re-read the story, it dawns on you. That wasn't Daredevil at all, it was a copy of him. And that’s one of the reasons, I couldn’t speak on this until the issue came out.

    When I came up with this I thought I was being clever
    in the story.
    And I did not realize that the page with DD was going
    to be up on promo before the story as a whole was out,
    where that realization of DD as a copy would happen
    before the entire DD scene was read.

    This was sort of like in the first DD story that Brian
    and I did, Wake Up, where the first issue of that
    story is the first issue to come after Joe Quesada's
    run on the series.

    And the first scene of the book, is drawn to look
    as though Joe Quesada drew it… but just a little off. And
    then more progressively so, until we see that version
    of DD is a comic book play of Daredevil happening
    within a child's imagination. And then the book cuts
    into a contrasting painted scene.


    And that was what I thought was a high concept
    key to the art approach in this entire issue for me. That
    when this skrull is in human form, it is always an
    emulation of something else, but just a little off
    of the authentic version in a way that isn't
    immediately apparent visually but just feels eerie.
    I wasn't going to be drawing the actual skrull in
    skrull form in this issue, so I thought this would be
    a clever and fun way to approach the alien-ness of it...as well as the
    mimickry of the creature.

    The Skrull would automatically turn into parts of
    Wolverine when Wolverine attacked it. It would at
    times exhibit features of Cyclops , and Nightcrawler,
    and the Human Torch, or Firestar.
    So I set about with that idea in mind, to try to draw the figure
    of the character as referenced from some of my
    favorite creators as well. Something that encrypted a
    built-in kind of mimicry and familiarity into the
    creature's body language.


    I had done something like this with Echo in all of the
    projects I had done before. Here are two characters,
    the skrull and Echo battling and each of their talents
    is to mimic the body language and skills of others.

    When I first wrote Echo in Daredevil: Parts of a Hole
    with Joe Quesada drawing, I asked Joe to always draw
    Echo's figure mimicking the figures and body language
    of Daredevil and Bullseye, or whoever she was copying
    in the story. I asked him in the script to give her
    the exact same figure stance copied off of the
    Daredevil figure that she was emulating.

    In the Echo story that I drew later, I drew Echo in
    all of the styles of master artists through out history.
    I showed her absorbing their styles into her own, and
    it becoming part of her, and then literally drew or
    painted her in the iconic images and styles of those
    artists as a part of the story telling.

    In this issue I was returning to the character, but
    she was now an Avenger. A member of a super team, and
    around a variety of super hero characters with a
    multitude of abilities.
    So I wanted her to be visually different this time. I
    wanted her body language to feel colored by the
    accents of all the other styles and super moves that
    she would have absorbed. Where I had painted her
    realistically before and drawn and painted her as a
    variety of iconic fine art imagery throughout the ages
    that she had absorbed, I now wanted to embrace the
    comic book super hero aspect of her, and draw her in a
    kind of iconic comic book style and figures. I didn't
    want it to be overly glaring at first, but something
    that would seem absorbed into her and that you would
    catch after the fact. So, like I drew her in
    references from my favorite fine art masters in the
    past, I referenced her from some of my favorite comic
    book artists in this story.

    This was my intention in this issue, and I thought it
    would give an undercurrent of paranoia as well in the
    story as much of this storyline is about identitiy and
    paranoia of who is a copy of a human and who is not.
    So I even encrypted some of this in Wolverine and
    Hawkeye in the story to add to that paranoia and questions of identity.
    Again, something that is not necessarily cartoonish or
    glaring, but that comes through subconsciously or even
    consciously on a re-read.

    Any of you who are familiar with my body of work know
    that I try to cultivate different visual looks for
    each of the projects and storylines that I do. And I
    often make experimental or unconventional choices in the story
    approach. In particular, I’ve been friends with Adam Hughes and his girlfriend Allison for many years, and gave them a heads up about this idea, and they seemed to get a kick out of it, and they know I’m not trying to build a career on the look of another artist.

    This is what I thought was a kind of high concept
    approach to this issue and I thought I was doing
    something interesting and really embracing the comic
    book super hero history and aspect of things, specific
    to this issue, which is quite different from my usual
    approach.
    Believe me it wasn't easy, and was actually more time
    consuming and meticulous than I imagined or than it
    would have been to just draw from the hip, or from any
    of my own photo reference without doing this idea.
    Anyone who has been reading my current Kabuki: The
    Alchemy story knows I can draw on my own, and do it in
    a variety of ways in service to the story.

    That said, this is just me expressing to you my
    intention and idea behind the issue. That doesn't
    mean it was a successful venture or idea. I didn't
    count on the preview page with DD coming out before
    the issue as a whole, or that I’d screw up on the cover and redo it, which perhaps allowed the idea to backfire on me. And you may not even like the
    idea or see any conceptual merit in it. And at this point, I cannot help but to think that it was an idea that was better left in my head than in reality. But it was me
    continuing with the approach to the Echo story that I
    had before and building on that, and a sort of love
    letter story device to some of my favorite artists in
    super hero comics, the way previous Echo stories were
    to what are considered the fine artists. Besides the
    artists named already, you'll find all kinds of art
    quirks in that story from Kirby to Quesada.

    I didn't mean to rub anyone the wrong way with this approach and I didn't mean for this to be a conversation that distracted from Brian's story.
    When in fact, I tried to tell the story as clearly as
    I could and tried to embrace a storytelling that
    readers of this series would enjoy and be comfortable
    with, and the rest of my concept was intended as a
    kind of subtext to that.

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA
    edited March 2008
    aw, that's fuckin awesome

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Oh come the fuck on. People are actually buying Mack's bullshit excuse for his hackery?

    1) He's been caught stealing from magazine covers and movie stills.

    2) He reused a bunch of the lifted art in NA #39 across multiple panels.

    3) His explanation makes no fucking sense. Echo looks and moves exactly like Gen 13's Rainmaker because of her powers? Come the fuck on! If she was mimicking the poses and movements of characters in previous arcs (e.g. taking a fall like Elektra, leaping like Spider Woman, etc.) I could almost buy it, but his excuse is bullshit of the highest order.

    4) He lied about contacting Adam Hughes and his girlfriend/manager and letting them know what he was planning to do.

    All this tells me that he's not some creative genius that decided to work in some clever Easter eggs for fans to discover. It tells me he's a fucking lazy hack that should get blacklisted until he learns to do his own fucking work. I mean, look at this shit.

    Munch on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Munch are you Greg O'Donnell

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I'm not sure who that is, but no.

    I just think lazy assholes like Mack and Land are an insult to actual artists that do their own work.

    Munch on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    So is this the only example of Mack's work you've seen.

    I'm guessing yes if you think he is an untalented hack who can only trace reference material.

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    No, I said he was a lazy hack. I'm aware of Mack's Kabuki and past work. I think he's either just a lazy artist with a lightbox, or he's been doing this for a long time and is only now getting caught, due to the ease of tracking down source material through the internet.

    Munch on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Yeah, I have to agree that Gen13 doesn't make sense as a reference if you accept his stated reasons for copying poses from other comics.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Well, given that everything I've seen from Mack has been great. (And I enjoyed the art in this issue). And that the DD stuff came across to me (especially the Maleev one) I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Mack also has a reputation for using a wide variety of non-traditional storytelling techniques in his art(Check out Kabuki or his Daredevil story he did with Bendis), so again it's not too far-fetched to me that he thought this up.

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I knew there was a reason I liked Munch.

    Other than when I read his posts it sounds like he is voiced by John Munch.

    Bloods End on
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I gotta agree with Munch here.

    I know Mack can do his own stuff, but this whole thing just comes off as lazy.

    Sars_Boy on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Though I sort of hate to bring this back up, it's now been revealed that Mack stole Alan Davis' work as well. And since things he copied from Davis include Wolverine and a building, his previous excuse really doesn't hold water.

    Munch on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Uh the Alan Davis stuff is not new

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I haven't really been following the play-by-play on Newsarama, just getting the Cliffnotes from scans_daily.

    Munch on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    The Alan Davis stuff is even included in his explanation (wether you believe it or not)

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Spoilers for NA #39.
    Mack said that he tried to draw Skrullverinecho in the style of some of his favorite artists, as he did Echo, in order to convey their tendency to mimic what they see. Which is still kind of bullshit, but assuming you buy into his excuse, it's sort of semi-plausible. But he copied Alan Davis for non-Skrull Wolverine, who would have zero reason to be aping superhero poses. I'm also pretty sure the building he copied isn't a Skrull. Even though that would be sort of cool.

    Honestly, if he'd just come out and say, "Hey, I'm sorry and I fucked up," it wouldn't be such a big deal. Or if all the artists he copied would have gotten a share of the profits, or even a, "With thanks to Hughes, Maleev, and Davis," in the credits would have been a nice show of good will. But it seems like he just wants to cover his ass and offer excuses rather than apologies.

    Munch on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    This was my intention in this issue, and I thought it
    would give an undercurrent of paranoia as well in the
    story as much of this storyline is about identitiy and
    paranoia of who is a copy of a human and who is not.
    So I even encrypted some of this in Wolverine and
    Hawkeye
    in the story to add to that paranoia and questions of identity.
    Again, something that is not necessarily cartoonish or
    glaring, but that comes through subconsciously or even
    consciously on a re-read.

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I ain't saying you gotta believe him, just sayin all that shit was covered in his initial response.

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    My bad, I guess I glanced past that.

    Still, I've said my piece on the subject, so I'm just going to quit talking about it now, since any more debate would be pretty pointless.

    Munch on
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I really want to make an account on the Bendis board just so I can ask them all how Mack's balls taste.

    because damn

    Sars_Boy on
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