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The Final Crisis Thread

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Posts

  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Keith wrote: »
    Yes, saying "I won't read works by an author because he wrote a bad story once." is stupid.

    John Ostrander is an awesome writer but Batman: Grotesk is even worse than Amazons Attack. Didn't stop me from reading and loving his recent Suicide Squad mini.

    I never said I would never read anything by him

    but if the only thing I've ever read by him I hated (check), I'm certainly not going to start with his work on a character I don't give two shits about.

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    bale stop being a ninny and read it

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Namor is much more interesting of a character, because they've done some really cool things with him. The limited run MK Fantastic Four had some really good Namor material. Brubaker has used him well as a small supporting character in some of the backstory sequences in the Captain America books.

    In general, Namor has had the fortune of receiving good writing, whereas Aquaman hasn't.

    Lucascraft on
  • LuxLux Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Tangent related to Aquaman:

    It's annoying how these characters get relaunched and then thrown into limbo because they're not sure what to do now and have to take months to figure out. Dr. Fate, Captain Marvel and Aquaman were all active characters until they had to be reimagined and now they're off the table. Is the same going to happen to The Atom?

    Lux on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited June 2008
    Captain Marvel isn't off the table, he's just been out of it while Trials of Shazam finished (which was delayed because the artist broke his hand). Shazam (Freddie's new name) is going to be on James Robinson's Justice League and I suspect he's the "special guest" in an upcoming Superman issue (also written by Robinson)

    Garlic Bread on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lux wrote: »
    Tangent related to Aquaman:

    It's annoying how these characters get relaunched and then thrown into limbo because they're not sure what to do now and have to take months to figure out. Dr. Fate, Captain Marvel and Aquaman were all active characters until they had to be reimagined and now they're off the table. Is the same going to happen to The Atom?

    While I completely agree with you, you have a Jaime Reyes avatar.

    Munch on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    hey munch, i just read the second blue beetle trade and it was really good.

    Servo on
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  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Rogers' last arc is the best one. Though the second trade would, if my memory serves, have issues seven (IC tie-in) and eight (Dani Garrett) included in it, so yeah, those were pretty good. I bought some art from issue eight. Fell apart when it came to all the La Dama stuff with the magic kids being held in a compound in the desert though. Assuming that plot's included in vol. 2. I don't know, it's been a while since I read it.

    Munch on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited June 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    Lux wrote: »
    Tangent related to Aquaman:

    It's annoying how these characters get relaunched and then thrown into limbo because they're not sure what to do now and have to take months to figure out. Dr. Fate, Captain Marvel and Aquaman were all active characters until they had to be reimagined and now they're off the table. Is the same going to happen to The Atom?

    While I completely agree with you, you have a Jaime Reyes avatar.

    Except Jaime gets use outside of his own book. He's in Teen Titans and he was in Brave & the Bold. Aquaman was in that issue of Outsiders: Five of a Kind, and Ryan Choi was in some countdown issues, but other than that they've been in their own books (which are both canceled)

    Garlic Bread on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited June 2008
    Servo wrote: »
    hey munch, i just read the second blue beetle trade and it was really good.

    i told you

    Garlic Bread on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    Rogers' last arc is the best one. Though the second trade would, if my memory serves, have issues seven (IC tie-in) and eight (Dani Garrett) included in it, so yeah, those were pretty good. I bought some art from issue eight. Fell apart when it came to all the La Dama stuff with the magic kids being held in a compound in the desert though. Assuming that plot's included in vol. 2. I don't know, it's been a while since I read it.

    that's at the end of the first trade. i don't know, i don't think i'd say it "fell apart", exactly. it's just a little unclear as to exactly where she got them all and how large her resource base is. it appears to be very large.

    it's the same problem i had with the pride in runaways- there's suddenly this huge new boss of crime who's totally well-established and whose name inspires fear in those that hear it. where'd these jokers come from? why haven't i heard of them before?

    that's really more an issue with introducing a new character gracefully into an existing world. i can get past that.

    that said, the second trade had the story where jamie's gal pal accidentally goes through the boom tube and meets metron. the little monsters running around on the planet really made it for me, with their translated word boxes. "It's cool, we're cool. Everybody be cool."

    and i loves me some metron, so bonus

    Servo on
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  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I think in Runaways they explained that the Pride were so well hidden because 1. they never expanded past L.A. 2. all the heroes live on the east coast/NY, 3. they were protected by the Girrohim (or whatever they were called)

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    that all makes sense, i guess, but i'd still think that a group of hugely powered crime lords owning the entire city of l.a. might have caught, say, nick fury's attention at some point.

    it's just suspension of disbelief, i suppose, but it still kind of bugs me.

    Servo on
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  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Servo wrote: »
    that's at the end of the first trade. i don't know, i don't think i'd say it "fell apart", exactly. it's just a little unclear as to exactly where she got them all and how large her resource base is. it appears to be very large.

    My issue with Blue Beetle (aside from the obvious) was that there were always these little throwaway plot threads that didn't really go anywhere. La Dama's personal magician dude was introduced and had most of an issue to himself, setting him up to be something of a major player, then he disappears until issue 24. The magic baby has a little plot going where people are trying to steal it, and then it gets forgotten about until the Countdown tie-in with Eclipso. Ditto La Dama's acquisition of magic kids, that green hunchback, the Posse, pretty much every character that appeared as a guest, Tovar the Lava King, Ultra Humanite, etc. It showed a lot of pacing problems and the tendency to introduce too much too fast, which can probably be attributed to it being Rogers' first outing as a comic writer. Or maybe I was just being unreasonable in expecting stuff to carry over more than it did, and Rogers never really intended to really spend much time developing a lot of the stuff he tossed in.

    Munch on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    yeah, i guess i can't really comment on the longer-term progression of the plot since i've only read up to the second trade at this point.

    Servo on
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  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Servo wrote: »
    that all makes sense, i guess, but i'd still think that a group of hugely powered crime lords owning the entire city of l.a. might have caught, say, nick fury's attention at some point.

    it's just suspension of disbelief, i suppose, but it still kind of bugs me.

    I'm pretty sure Nick Fury knew all about the Kingpin and the Owl in NY but he never did anything to stop them either.

    organized crime is small time for him

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    look Nick Fury has to be ready to deal with GODZILLA

    he don't got time to worry about organized crime

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    i don't know about that, guys

    shield is a pretty big organization

    Servo on
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  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    Servo wrote: »
    that's at the end of the first trade. i don't know, i don't think i'd say it "fell apart", exactly. it's just a little unclear as to exactly where she got them all and how large her resource base is. it appears to be very large.

    My issue with Blue Beetle (aside from the obvious) was that there were always these little throwaway plot threads that didn't really go anywhere. La Dama's personal magician dude was introduced and had most of an issue to himself, setting him up to be something of a major player, then he disappears until issue 24. The magic baby has a little plot going where people are trying to steal it, and then it gets forgotten about until the Countdown tie-in with Eclipso. Ditto La Dama's acquisition of magic kids, that green hunchback, the Posse, pretty much every character that appeared as a guest, Tovar the Lava King, Ultra Humanite, etc. It showed a lot of pacing problems and the tendency to introduce too much too fast, which can probably be attributed to it being Rogers' first outing as a comic writer. Or maybe I was just being unreasonable in expecting stuff to carry over more than it did, and Rogers never really intended to really spend much time developing a lot of the stuff he tossed in.

    What?

    Munch? Unreasonable?

    WELL I NEVER

    Bloods End on
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2008
    I'm pretty sure Tovar the Lava King was introduced and gotten rid of in one issue
    I thought he died

    Me Too! on
  • LuxLux Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    Lux wrote: »
    Tangent related to Aquaman:

    It's annoying how these characters get relaunched and then thrown into limbo because they're not sure what to do now and have to take months to figure out. Dr. Fate, Captain Marvel and Aquaman were all active characters until they had to be reimagined and now they're off the table. Is the same going to happen to The Atom?

    While I completely agree with you, you have a Jaime Reyes avatar.

    I'm not against the rebootings per se, just the reboot and then the lack of commitment as they try to figure out what to do. Just reboot, stick with it, and integrate the guys into the greater DCU already.

    Lux on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    He did. Well, a bunch of rock and lava collapsed on him, so he probably died. I'm not sure if a Lava King, a king of lava as it were, would be vulnerable to lava.

    I was just saying that he was one of those many things that Rogers introduced, quickly did away with/pushed to the side, and didn't really bother to expand on. I'll admit that one's not really a good example though, since Tovar was obviously created to get taken out right away. I did feel like it was a pacing issue though, where he was introduced, the reader was told to care about him, and then boom he was gone, all in an issue.

    I generally like Blue Beetle, but it wasn't without its problems under Rogers.

    Munch on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lux wrote: »
    I'm not against the rebootings per se, just the reboot and then the lack of commitment as they try to figure out what to do. Just reboot, stick with it, and integrate the guys into the greater DCU already.

    They have though. Aquaman's popped up in JLA, Superman/Batman, Superman (or Action Comics, whichever Busiek writes), and I'm sure a few others I've missed, Ryan Choi appeared in Brave and the Bold, Dr. Fate has had two minis centered around him (The Helmet of Fate, Countdown to Mystery), and appeared in a fashion in 52, and Shazam/Captain Marvel just wrapped their mini. DC's putting forth some effort now, but I have little doubt that the Silver Age status quo will eventually reassert itself in one fashion or another.

    Five or ten years down the road I see a lot of legacies that look like that of Wildcat or Green Arrow, with two or more people sharing a name, assuming none of the new guys get whacked before then.

    Munch on
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2008
    I felt like he was introduced for Jamie to fight, and when that fight was over, his purpose had been served

    Me Too! on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Eh, maybe I just favor long-form stories.

    Munch on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited June 2008
    Interview with Peter Tomasi on Final Crisis: Requiem

    he seems really upset that J'onn is gone. I wish they would've let him write a Martian Manhunter ongoing. His Nightwing is awesome and he handles the whole "Dick knows pretty much everyone in the DCU" thing well, which is something J'onn also shares.

    Kind of neat that this is what spawns James Robinson's Justice League book.

    Garlic Bread on
  • ZeromusZeromus Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Why are they waiting until July to release Requiem?

    Zeromus on
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  • BigDesBigDes Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Don't DC titles normally get axed if they sell under 18k though? So Blue Beetle is selling around what 14k, maybe he's thinking it's going to get axed at some point so there is no real point in starting a long story.

    BigDes on
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  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    BigDes wrote: »
    Don't DC titles normally get axed if they sell under 18k though? So Blue Beetle is selling around what 14k, maybe he's thinking it's going to get axed at some point so there is no real point in starting a long story.

    Rogers was doing pretty self-contained stories throughout his entire run. Most things wrapped up in an issue, with the only thing really carrying from issue to issue being the overarching plot of the Reach wanting to conquer Earth. Which also had its momentum broken up by a few filler issues.

    And Requiem sounds like it'll be good. Tomasi's risen to prominence pretty quickly as a great writer, and with Mahnke on art it should be a sure thing. Seeing J'onn's death get fleshed out a bit will be nice too.

    Munch on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited June 2008
    Hopefully Mahnke has figured out how to draw J'onn because his J'onn in the Black Adam series was terrible

    Garlic Bread on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I think we had this discussion already but Mahnke also did the "Mars needs chocos!" issue of Martian Manhunter, and his J'onn there looked wonderful. He also did some great arcs with Joe Kelly on JLA, where Manhunter featured prominently. So it's not like he doesn't have experience drawing the character, or at least the old pirate boots and suspenders version.

    I think he may be moving towards a looser, sketchier style though, which could account for the difference. I haven't read Black Adam yet, but comparing his old JLA/Major Bummer work to say, Frankenstein or his cover he did for Nightwing, there's a world of difference. He did say in an interview he sometimes pencils three pages a day too, so he may be overextending himself. Of course, he also did the Libra pages in DCU 0, and those were exceptionally tight and clean.

    Munch on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited June 2008
    i'm pretty sure it was the new look that threw him off

    Garlic Bread on
  • LuxLux Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    He did the Libra pages? I thought JG Jones did those. Who did the Batman pages?

    Lux on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Tony Daniel.

    Munch on
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    So far I like the way the tie ins with FC are being handled, which basically involves only the Dark Side Club. Young heroes are being chased in books that feature young heroes, none of the previous "Lets put an OMAC in every single book and call it a tie in."

    Bloods End on
  • BriareosBriareos Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Ok, just read the first issue. J'onn is really dead? That sucks.

    Also, it didn't seem to follow that well off the end of Countdown. Didn't everyone realize that Orion fought Darkseid, Darkseid died, and the New Gods were no more? And what's up with the Monitors? It seems like a lot of time had passed for them. What's an Orrery? I thought more universes than just Universe 51 were destroyed in Countdown.

    So many confusing things...

    Briareos on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Morrison said in an interview he actually asked that nobody use the New Gods for a year prior to FC, so when the body of Orion was found, it'd be a huge surprise. DC didn't oblige, so he said fuck it and pushed ahead with his plans, so that all of his work will still line up the way he wanted it to.

    Munch on
  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    So in other words: whoops?

    Wildcat on
  • JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Briareos wrote: »
    Ok, just read the first issue. J'onn is really dead? That sucks.

    Also, it didn't seem to follow that well off the end of Countdown. Didn't everyone realize that Orion fought Darkseid, Darkseid died, and the New Gods were no more? And what's up with the Monitors? It seems like a lot of time had passed for them. What's an Orrery? I thought more universes than just Universe 51 were destroyed in Countdown.

    So many confusing things...

    I think only the entire universe of Earth-51 was destroyed. I know Prime destroyed that Zod Earth, but I guess he left the rest of the universe alone?

    Orrery: An orrery is a mechanical device that illustrates the relative positions and motions of the planets and moons in the solar system in heliocentric model.
    (There was also an orrery as an add-on to Oblivion, which is where I had seen it).

    The monitors do seem a bit different, since they've apparently had time to fully establish identities and even develop romantic relationships.


    Here's a question: who is the black guy who wakes up to the news of J'onn's death?

    JoeUser on
  • LordSolarMachariusLordSolarMacharius Red wine with fish Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Nix Uotan, exiled multiversal monitor of Universe 51.

    Edit: TOTP, was in responce to "...who is the black guy who wakes up..."

    LordSolarMacharius on
This discussion has been closed.