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The Final Crisis Thread

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Posts

  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited June 2008
    because Identity Crisis is only good if you don't know the characters too well.

    pretty much

    it was among the first comics i read and i loved it but after reading more stuff it doesn't hold up at all

    Garlic Bread on
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Rest, You Are The Lightning. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    yeah that's pretty much this guy's situation

    Sars_Boy on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I like it but well that's me. I'm guessing Munch or Bale will start bitching at me again any second now....

    Eh. I've said more than enough about it. If you liked it, you liked it, and if nothing else it seems like it inspired a lot of new readers to get into comics. Eventually some new nihilistic event will top it and it will be quietly forgotten and mostly ignored, just like that comic where Catwoman got raped until she urinated blood, or the one where Ms. Marvel gave birth to, and fell in love with, her own rapist.

    Munch on
  • Rabid_LlamaRabid_Llama Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    I like it but well that's me. I'm guessing Munch or Bale will start bitching at me again any second now....

    Eh. I've said more than enough about it. If you liked it, you liked it, and if nothing else it seems like it inspired a lot of new readers to get into comics. Eventually some new nihilistic event will top it and it will be quietly forgotten and mostly ignored, just like that comic where Catwoman got raped until she urinated blood, or the one where Ms. Marvel gave birth to, and fell in love with, her own rapist.

    The only common thread I see here is rape.

    Rabid_Llama on
    /sig
    The+Rabid+Llama.png
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The only common thread I see here is rape.

    You know, I was going to throw in something else, like the Spider-Clone saga, Azrael, or Teenage Tony Stark, but decided to pick two things that are slightly less well known, but seem kind of gratuitous and damaging to the characters when looked at now. Every now and then it seems like the comic book industry decides it needs to look more grown up, and this attitude is usually followed by a bunch of death and a rape or two. Identity Crisis always seemed to me to be DC's most recent attempt to show it could be just as grown up and moody as other forms of media, especially coming off of a long period of "light" fare that dominated DC for a long time.

    Munch on
  • LuxLux Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    what's worse?

    liking Identity Crisis or Spider-Man/Black Cat?

    Only n00bs like those comics and we are so above that!

    Lux on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    what

    The Lovely Bastard on
    7656367.jpg
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    man I am not an Identity Crisis fan but Sars is way closer to approaching Munch levels of hatred for it than me

    I dont belong in that conversation

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Bale is but a tiny flickering candle next to the exploding sun of my hatred.

    Nah, I'm mostly over it. I try to take comics a lot less seriously nowadays, with varying degrees of success. Nothing in mainstream comics is forever, so there's not much point in getting upset I guess.

    Munch on
  • SalmonOfDoubtSalmonOfDoubt Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The best thing about Dr. Light becoming Dr. Rapesalot was that Green Arrow arc after Identity Crisis where basically ever other word he said was rape.
    scan0015uc7.jpg
    rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape

    SalmonOfDoubt on
    heavensidesig80.jpg
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    killing children would be hilarious
    Olivaw wrote: »
    HELLO AND WELCOME TO THE PENNY ARCADE FORUMS

    PLEASE ENJOY YOUR STAY

    AND THIS PENIS
    Man, I don't want to read about this lady's broken vagina.
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I am sitting here trying to come up with a tiered system for rating child molesters.
    cock vore is fuckin hilarious
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Who is the greater rapist, the rapist or the rapist who rapes him?

    august on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Who Rapes the Rapemen?

    Robos A Go Go on
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    If a rapist rapes a tree in the forest, does he make a sound?

    august on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Ask not for whom the rapist rapes. He rapes for thee.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    edited June 2008
    rape music, my droogs!

    DJ Eebs on
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Rest, You Are The Lightning. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Balefuego wrote: »
    man I am not an Identity Crisis fan but Sars is way closer to approaching Munch levels of hatred for it than me

    I dont belong in that conversation
    man i don't hate it that bad

    i'm more like keith

    Sars_Boy on
  • KyleWPetersonKyleWPeterson Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I blame that on the fact that Winnick is a Godawful writer.

    Kyle

    KyleWPeterson on
  • SalmonOfDoubtSalmonOfDoubt Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    rape music, my droogs!

    GOT MY DAMN RAPE FACE ON

    SalmonOfDoubt on
    heavensidesig80.jpg
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    killing children would be hilarious
    Olivaw wrote: »
    HELLO AND WELCOME TO THE PENNY ARCADE FORUMS

    PLEASE ENJOY YOUR STAY

    AND THIS PENIS
    Man, I don't want to read about this lady's broken vagina.
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I am sitting here trying to come up with a tiered system for rating child molesters.
    cock vore is fuckin hilarious
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The best thing about Dr. Light becoming Dr. Rapesalot was that Green Arrow arc after Identity Crisis where basically ever other word he said was rape.

    rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape

    That's the appearance that really convinced me that some writers just shouldn't be allowed to use the character, since they lack the grace to do it well. I agree with Bale that Johns used him pretty well. But you know what that Green Arrow appearance reminds me of? That DC dictionary or whatever about Lex Luthor stealing cakes.

    Dr. Light raped someone. Dr. Light penetrated them against their will. Dr. Light forcefully initiated intercourse with an unwilling participant.

    And that's terrible.

    Munch on
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Has there been another character who has gone down in infamy for getting their rape on? Norman Osbourne?

    I tried to google "Rape in comics" and the results were...distrubing.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Starfox.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Not really. It rarely occurred in big event books, or was spotlighted. And it usually tends to get seriously downplayed later. Some that stand out in my mind are Nightwing getting raped by Tarantula, and Mirage getting raped by a clone of Nightwing (who she was in love with at the time) and then getting pregnant from it. Rape usually tends to occur in the pre-history of a character, as with Starfire, Catwoman, or Black Cat.

    And that Starfox story was weird.

    Munch on
  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    IIRC, the Shado/Ollie Queen rape was a bit of a cause celebre for the GirlWonder crowd, for a while at least.

    Wildcat on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Purple Man raped Jessica Jones, thats why Cage hates him so much

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Actually he didn't. He made her stand around naked and watch as he raped other women, while telepathically making her want him more than anything else in the world. It was basically his way of degrading her even more than he would through rape.

    Munch on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I still think what he did to her counts

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    You do bring up a good point about Purple Man. I think he's become one of the more famous rapey villains. It even popped up in Daredevil: Yellow.

    Munch on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    You do bring up a good point about Purple Man. I think he's become one of the more famous rapey villains. It even popped up in Daredevil: Yellow.

    Here's a weird question for someone like Purple Man: if a telepath makes you have a certain thought/emotion, how do we interpret that? Is that 'rape' per se, or is it something else? Is it like drugging someone?

    Is forcing someone to feel a way different enough from just convincing them? Or is it more like partially lobotmizing them?

    Weird stuff.

    /I think it's rape.

    mattharvest on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Mind control is generally considered to be rape, except for when it's something minor like a Jedi Mind Trick or a dire situation.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    There's so many different ways something like mind control has been portrayed thats its an interesting question, but without a doubt the way Purple Man uses it is unquestionably rape.

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    so... are you guys just going to make rape jokes

    or


    are we going to talk about final crisis and bitch about editors and whatnot

    I'm curious about Super Young Team. I wonder how much of them we will see? Or Big Science Action.

    There was a pretty detailed page in the sketchbook for Orion, and we saw him dieing in a dumpster for about 3 panels. Was his motherbox destroyed in Death of the New Gods? I read somewhere that motherboxes can restore their user and heal them and stuff, and I think I remember reading somewhere (back before the kirby omnibuses were announced and I wiki'd everything because I figured there was no way I would read the original stuff) that Orion's astro-harness repairs itself too, as long as a few molecules remain.

    So what I am wondering is maybe Orion will be healed by motherbox and will be wearing his blue boxers underneath his clothes. So maybe the new costume will be used when he recovers.

    DouglasDanger on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Mind control is generally considered to be rape, except for when it's something minor like a Jedi Mind Trick or a dire situation.

    That's actually part of my point: if it's not okay to make someone think X, but it's okay to make them think Y (or do X vs. do Y) then doesn't that imply the morality is somehow situated on the degree between X and Y as opposed to the nature of X vs. the nature of Y?

    So, if it's wrong to make someone want to have sex with you, but it's acceptable to make them want to ignore you, where's the line? How much coercion can you exert? What if I make you want to ignore someone you're in love with? What if I make you want to stop ignoring someone you loathe?

    That's is one of those things I've written about before: superpowers, by virtue of being ontologically different from anything we can do in the real world, create new and unanswered moral questions.

    As I said, I think that means either telepaths are rapists by virtue of ever using their powers, or the morals for telepaths are just different than for non-telepaths.

    mattharvest on
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2008
    I think we're all losing sight of the most important thing, here
    And that's that Barry is coming back soon

    Me Too! on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    There was a pretty detailed page in the sketchbook for Orion, and we saw him dieing in a dumpster for about 3 panels. Was his motherbox destroyed in Death of the New Gods? I read somewhere that motherboxes can restore their user and heal them and stuff, and I think I remember reading somewhere (back before the kirby omnibuses were announced and I wiki'd everything because I figured there was no way I would read the original stuff) that Orion's astro-harness repairs itself too, as long as a few molecules remain.

    So what I am wondering is maybe Orion will be healed by motherbox and will be wearing his blue boxers underneath his clothes. So maybe the new costume will be used when he recovers.

    In Seven Soldiers: Mister Miracle, which takes place before FC, wasn't it shown that Shilo Norman had the last remaining Motherbox? So yeah, Orion probably lost his some time ago.

    In his Newsarama interview, Morrison talks about how the ancient Gods weren't just people sitting on clouds, but rather emotions and feelings inhabiting human beings. I'm wondering if maybe the Gods of New Genesis won't be revived by humanity, when they begin to represent the nature of the fallen Gods.

    I'm thinking that everything in the DC universe has been so generally hopeless and miserable for so long that it finally gave the Gods of Apokolips, who embodied these traits, a whole bunch of power they didn't previously have. While the good Gods slowly lost it. Maybe as soon as people around the world decide to rise up and embody the positive traits of the New Gods, they'll be able to break free from the homeless vagabonds they're currently trapped in, and become the Gods they once were.

    Munch on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Mind control is generally considered to be rape, except for when it's something minor like a Jedi Mind Trick or a dire situation.

    That's actually part of my point: if it's not okay to make someone think X, but it's okay to make them think Y (or do X vs. do Y) then doesn't that imply the morality is somehow situated on the degree between X and Y as opposed to the nature of X vs. the nature of Y?

    So, if it's wrong to make someone want to have sex with you, but it's acceptable to make them want to ignore you, where's the line? How much coercion can you exert? What if I make you want to ignore someone you're in love with? What if I make you want to stop ignoring someone you loathe?

    That's is one of those things I've written about before: superpowers, by virtue of being ontologically different from anything we can do in the real world, create new and unanswered moral questions.

    As I said, I think that means either telepaths are rapists by virtue of ever using their powers, or the morals for telepaths are just different than for non-telepaths.

    dammit man
    what the hell does this have to do with final crisis? was someone mind-raped in Final Crisis somewhere?

    I like your idea, Munch. So much bad shit has been happening. It would be neat if it was somehow connected to Darkseid.

    I'm reading the second volume of the Fourth World omnibus, and in there Desaad tries to destroy a motherbox and fails. It teleported itself away from danger. This Kirby stuff is my only exposure with the Fourth World though (and 7S: Mister Miracle), so maybe different things have been done since then.

    DouglasDanger on
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    edited June 2008
    morrison was talking about how dr. light raped sue and the discussion went on from there

    DJ Eebs on
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Wait wait wait Dr. Light raped Sue Dibny?

    Furu on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I contend that they were just wrestling. Dr. Light was showing her how to execute an arm bar in case she ever needed to defend herself, then the JLA showed up and totally overreacted.

    Munch on
  • TachTach Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    It wasn't rape, it was suprise sex.

    Tach on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Munch wrote: »
    I contend that they were just wrestling. Dr. Light was showing her how to execute an arm bar in case she ever needed to defend herself, then the JLA showed up and totally overreacted.

    That's such a deeply unsettling hypothesis, because Light apparently has endorsed the lie.

    mattharvest on
This discussion has been closed.