Sir CarcassI have been shown the end of my worldRound Rock, TXRegistered Userregular
edited March 2008
I've been thinking of playing through this again for a couple of months now. I absolutely loved it my first playthrough. What's holding me back is I just feel bad about killing them. I think what drove it home was the first dog one. When you use the thing it's afraid of, it looked like a scared dog and I felt kind of like a dick for pushing him off of the ledge with it, even though he was earlier trying to kill me.
This game is gorgeous on the PS3 upscaled. That is all.
Yeah, this is one of those games where I really had hoped they had just saved it for this current gen. The PS2 was just a little bit underpowered to really fully flesh out their vision. I'm excited for their next game whatever it'll be because they work so hard on having unique experiences but man a 360/PS3 SotC would have been fantastic.
This game is gorgeous on the PS3 upscaled. That is all.
Yeah, this is one of those games where I really had hoped they had just saved it for this current gen. The PS2 was just a little bit underpowered to really fully flesh out their vision. I'm excited for their next game whatever it'll be because they work so hard on having unique experiences but man a 360/PS3 SotC would have been fantastic.
They are working on a PS3 port. It was mentioned in the other Team Ico thread way back when.
What are they doing anyway? It's been so long since they've said anything.
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SirUltimosDon't talk, Rusty. Just paint.Registered Userregular
edited March 2008
The best part of the movie "Reign Over Me" was actually seeing Adam Sandlet fight Collosus on the big screen. It was really well done.
I remember a 'games you regret buying' thread that popped up a while ago. People were throwing around the names of some true masterpieces. Metal Gear Solid(s), Devil May Cry 3, GTA: San Andreas and even SotC.
The problem with SotC is, it's not for everyone. I honestly don't know what difference there is between those of us who view it as, pretty much, the pinnacle of gaming, and others who complain that it's too slow, that the controls suck, the framerate is in the toilet, et cetera.
The controls are excellent, imo. The 'slowness' of the progression is pretty much user-generated. You can hold up the sword and go straight towards the next fight, or cruise around the landscape grabbing lizard tails and fruit off trees. The framerate? I never noticed there was any slowdown 'till someone mentioned it on these forums.
*
Just like ICO (which if you can find I highly reccomend you pick up - it's near impossible to locate now), as others have pointed out, Shadow's story is mostly a) told through animation and b) inferred and created by you, the player. Take for example Aggro. (And this IS a spoiler, if you haven't beated it, don't read it.)
When Aggro falls, your reaction to it isn't just created by the animation and the two cutscenes he's been involved in. It's very much a product of your own experience with the horse. Most people found him to be a wonderful companion, a stalwart friend who fearlessly and tirelessly accompanies you through the forgotten land. If, like me, you never even noticed yourself becoming attached to the horse, when he falls it'll hit you like a ton of bricks. They KILLED Aggro? How could they... Motherfuckers!
Shadow's incredibly minimalist storytelling allows you to infer your own story into the narrative. Maybe the girl's his sister, his cousin, she could be Princess Zelda or his childhood sweetheart. Team ICO doesn't tell you, because they want you to make whatever connection to her you will, and feel it.
*
On that thread about 'games you regret buying,' I said There's a reason people on these forums hold up Shadow of the Colossus like it's baby Simba at the beginning of Lion King. It's not just the excellent gameplay, the wonderful music, the perfect animations or the minimal story - it's how they come together to be one of, if not the best game of the last generation of consoles, and totally sigworthy.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
This is one of the most beautiful pieces of software ever made, it shows up every other developer out there, and it is one of the most unique experiences ever.
When I finished ICO, I had no idea how they would do a sequel, I knew that they would not just settle for 'more of the same' and I hoped that they would make a more open world, but was unsure how they could do so without sacrificing some of the intricacy of ICO. They did it by designing a genius, subtle, and lovingly crafted game like no other.
Every aspect of it, from the control scheme, the animation, the music, the structure, the narrative, the character designs and the world are perfectly in tune, and have a coherent and cohesive direction.
Their next game is going to force me to gain usage of a PS3.
I've been this close to buying SotC, atleast four times I've chosen another game over it, despite hearing all the great things about it. And it seems like just my type of game, aswell.
SotC tries so hard to construct this unique world that's dripping with atmosphere and realism and in many respects it succeeds, but it does this at the sacrifice of the gameplay.
Just look at Argo. He moves and acts just like a real horse, but many players get frustrated with his utter lack of intuitiveness. On several occasions I gave up on Argo completely and just hoofed it, so to speak. The camera is even worse in this respect. When Wander runs in a certain direction he realistically looks ahead. The camera is constantly swinging behind him to show the direction he's looking. Gamers who've grown up with today's platformers don't want that. They'd rather have the standard dual analog setup that's used in almost every game of its type. Thank god for lock-on, but even that fails to give a decent camera angle 90% of the time.
Fans of SotC might say that its minimalism is integral to the game but I find that it hurts the game more than it helps. I'm not sure what aim the developers were shooting for when they populated their huge world with only birds, lizards, fruit trees and giants. I can't see how this extreme minimalism helps the game in any way. There's nothing to see or interact with. Besides the Colossi battles there's hunting lizards and shooting fruit; that's it. That alone is absurd. I didn't even notice these side quests on my first playthrough, and had to see a guide before I learned that they even existed. How hard would it be to offer some tangible reward for exploring this vast world. Offering a tiny health and stamina boost is far from a good incentive. Those items you earn in Time Attack mode are pointless because by the time you earn them you've killed every Colossi. It isn't until the end of the game that you have something to find those damnable lizards. Too bad you have no real reason to boost your stamina. Why couldn't the developers placed these items in the over world? That alone would make it a lot more interesting.
Ideally, however, there should have been more than sixteen enemies (and a few others related to the ending) in the entire game. I have no doubt that adding some enemies would in no way lessen the impact of the Colossi. In fact making them actual bosses would probably enhance them. If someone can explain to me what's so horrible about enemies, that would be great.
There's also the issue of controls and frame rate but I never had a problem with them so I won't address them further.
People who really like SotC are people willing to look past its many flaws and love it for what it does well like with its art design and music.
I still think SotC is a pretty good game btw. I sound harsh above but even I'm willing to look past some things. I'm on my second playthrough right now for hard mode. The music is in fact the greatest OST ever created.
SotC tries so hard to construct this unique world that's dripping with atmosphere and realism and in many respects it succeeds, but it does this at the sacrifice of the gameplay.
Just look at Argo. He moves and acts just like a real horse, but many players get frustrated with his utter lack of intuitiveness. On several occasions I gave up on Argo completely and just hoofed it, so to speak. The camera is even worse in this respect. When Wander runs in a certain direction he realistically looks ahead. The camera is constantly swinging behind him to show the direction he's looking. Gamers who've grown up with today's platformers don't want that. They'd rather have the standard dual analog setup that's used in almost every game of its type. Thank god for lock-on, but even that fails to give a decent camera angle 90% of the time.
Fans of SotC might say that its minimalism is integral to the game but I find that it hurts the game more than it helps. I'm not sure what aim the developers were shooting for when they populated their huge world with only birds, lizards, fruit trees and giants. I can't see how this extreme minimalism helps the game in any way. There's nothing to see or interact with. Besides the Colossi battles there's hunting lizards and shooting fruit; that's it. That alone is absurd. I didn't even notice these side quests on my first playthrough, and had to see a guide before I learned that they even existed. How hard would it be to offer some tangible reward for exploring this vast world. Offering a tiny health and stamina boost is far from a good incentive. Those items you earn in Time Attack mode are pointless because by the time you earn them you've killed every Colossi. It isn't until the end of the game that you have something to find those damnable lizards. Too bad you have no real reason to boost your stamina. Why couldn't the developers placed these items in the over world? That alone would make it a lot more interesting.
Ideally, however, there should have been more than sixteen enemies (and a few others related to the ending) in the entire game. I have no doubt that adding some enemies would in no way lessen the impact of the Colossi. In fact making them actual bosses would probably enhance them. If someone can explain to me what's so horrible about enemies, that would be great.
There's also the issue of controls and frame rate but I never had a problem with them so I won't address them further.
People who really like SotC are people willing to look past its many flaws and love it for what it does well like with its art design and music.
I still think SotC is a pretty good game btw. I sound harsh above but even I'm willing to look past some things. I'm on my second playthrough right now for hard mode. The music is in fact the greatest OST ever created.
That's part of the point of the world. Its a forbidden wasteland that hardly anything can survive in.
I remember a 'games you regret buying' thread that popped up a while ago. People were throwing around the names of some true masterpieces. Metal Gear Solid(s), Devil May Cry 3, GTA: San Andreas and even SotC.
The problem with SotC is, it's not for everyone. I honestly don't know what difference there is between those of us who view it as, pretty much, the pinnacle of gaming, and others who complain that it's too slow, that the controls suck, the framerate is in the toilet, et cetera.
The controls are excellent, imo. The 'slowness' of the progression is pretty much user-generated. You can hold up the sword and go straight towards the next fight, or cruise around the landscape grabbing lizard tails and fruit off trees. The framerate? I never noticed there was any slowdown 'till someone mentioned it on these forums.
*
Just like ICO (which if you can find I highly reccomend you pick up - it's near impossible to locate now), as others have pointed out, Shadow's story is mostly a) told through animation and b) inferred and created by you, the player. Take for example Aggro. (And this IS a spoiler, if you haven't beated it, don't read it.)
When Aggro falls, your reaction to it isn't just created by the animation and the two cutscenes he's been involved in. It's very much a product of your own experience with the horse. Most people found him to be a wonderful companion, a stalwart friend who fearlessly and tirelessly accompanies you through the forgotten land. If, like me, you never even noticed yourself becoming attached to the horse, when he falls it'll hit you like a ton of bricks. They KILLED Aggro? How could they... Motherfuckers!
Shadow's incredibly minimalist storytelling allows you to infer your own story into the narrative. Maybe the girl's his sister, his cousin, she could be Princess Zelda or his childhood sweetheart. Team ICO doesn't tell you, because they want you to make whatever connection to her you will, and feel it.
*
On that thread about 'games you regret buying,' I said There's a reason people on these forums hold up Shadow of the Colossus like it's baby Simba at the beginning of Lion King. It's not just the excellent gameplay, the wonderful music, the perfect animations or the minimal story - it's how they come together to be one of, if not the best game of the last generation of consoles, and totally sigworthy.
I think that while it's a game that isn't for everyone, I feel like SotC is a game that every person who considers themselves a well versed gamer needs to play. It's just an entirely atypical gaming experience that truly makes minimalist storytelling and gameplay shine. Not to mention that you're pretty much awestruck by every boss and boss fight location. The game is a gem.
As for Aggro dying... yeah I was just like you, I didn't even think about how much I liked him... hell, I had no idea I had any attachment to him at all. I thought that he was merely a tool to be used to help me complete the ressurection quest, which was the ONLY thing that mattered. When he died though, saving my life, it all dropped on me... he was my only companion for the entire quest, always by my side, and ending with sacrificing his life so I could go on. My heart dropped into my stomach and I had the thought that maybe this girl wasn't worth the sacrifice. But I went on with this hardened and pissed heart, just wanting to take the last guy down and end it all, hoping that bringing her back would end my pain.
All in all, there are very few games that evoke anything near that emotional experience, and definitely none with the sheer genious subtlety with which SotC crafted my emotions.
Anyone in this thread who considers themselves a gamer, not just a fan of a genre, or a series, but a true gamer owes it to themselves to at least experience this game.
lack of "stuff to do" in the world or not, I considered taking in the beautiful vistas as I travelled towards the next area that my sword beamed me towards enough "to do" in the world in and of itself.
lack of "stuff to do" in the world or not, I considered taking in the beautiful vistas as I travelled towards the next area that my sword beamed me towards enough "to do" in the world in and of itself.
Exactly.
I would put looking at the world in SOTC way above collecting trinkets and killing 90% of enemies in games.
SotC tries so hard to construct this unique world that's dripping with atmosphere and realism and in many respects it succeeds, but it does this at the sacrifice of the gameplay.
Just look at Argo. He moves and acts just like a real horse, but many players get frustrated with his utter lack of intuitiveness. On several occasions I gave up on Argo completely and just hoofed it, so to speak. The camera is even worse in this respect. When Wander runs in a certain direction he realistically looks ahead. The camera is constantly swinging behind him to show the direction he's looking. Gamers who've grown up with today's platformers don't want that. They'd rather have the standard dual analog setup that's used in almost every game of its type. Thank god for lock-on, but even that fails to give a decent camera angle 90% of the time.
Fans of SotC might say that its minimalism is integral to the game but I find that it hurts the game more than it helps. I'm not sure what aim the developers were shooting for when they populated their huge world with only birds, lizards, fruit trees and giants. I can't see how this extreme minimalism helps the game in any way. There's nothing to see or interact with. Besides the Colossi battles there's hunting lizards and shooting fruit; that's it. That alone is absurd. I didn't even notice these side quests on my first playthrough, and had to see a guide before I learned that they even existed. How hard would it be to offer some tangible reward for exploring this vast world. Offering a tiny health and stamina boost is far from a good incentive. Those items you earn in Time Attack mode are pointless because by the time you earn them you've killed every Colossi. It isn't until the end of the game that you have something to find those damnable lizards. Too bad you have no real reason to boost your stamina. Why couldn't the developers placed these items in the over world? That alone would make it a lot more interesting.
Ideally, however, there should have been more than sixteen enemies (and a few others related to the ending) in the entire game. I have no doubt that adding some enemies would in no way lessen the impact of the Colossi. In fact making them actual bosses would probably enhance them. If someone can explain to me what's so horrible about enemies, that would be great.
There's also the issue of controls and frame rate but I never had a problem with them so I won't address them further.
People who really like SotC are people willing to look past its many flaws and love it for what it does well like with its art design and music.
I still think SotC is a pretty good game btw. I sound harsh above but even I'm willing to look past some things. I'm on my second playthrough right now for hard mode. The music is in fact the greatest OST ever created.
I disagree with everything you said. All of those things are part of what make it such a rewarding experience. It isn't just another 8 hours of shitty dialog, factory standard gameplay, and nothing to think about. It's kind of like going into Tetris and being surprised about not about having a vast city to explore or epic gun fights or quick time events. It just isn't that kind of game.
As for enemies the colossi aren't meant to be enemies in the standard sense. So trying to put in random minions before the stereotypical big boss just doesn't work. They aren't rampaging around the country side destroying everything like your typical videogame enemy. They aren't even enemies at all.
YOU are the enemy whos running in and stabbing them while they are just chilling in their homes.
They are working on a PS3 port. It was mentioned in the other Team Ico thread way back when.
What are they doing anyway? It's been so long since they've said anything.
That will be the day I get a PS3. This was my favoirte game of all time. I've played it like 3 times on each difficulty and unlocked everything.
I wonder if they will add the extra colossi they had taken out. They said in an interview somewhere that they originally had twice as many than what was in the final game. The final number they ended up with though was a decent amount. Every colossi was very varied.
Here's some extra colossi that were removed, from a few old colossus threads.
In all my playthroughs something I was never able to do was
Launch off the sword of colossus #3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAETwHNdzis
I only got up to his waist on my attempts, which still helped me to beat him on hard mode time trials.
Edit: Also everyone views the story of this game differently. That's what I like about it. The How and the why? You can find that out yourself. I compare this game to a low tech metroid, without item aquisition.
I honestly think the inclusion of extra enemies would have cheapened the experience as a whole. Extra enemies would have just killed the atmosphere and would not have been fun. At all. "Oh, I have to kill 20 enemies to get to the fun boss fight!". It's just extra bullshit that is not needed.
lack of "stuff to do" in the world or not, I considered taking in the beautiful vistas as I travelled towards the next area that my sword beamed me towards enough "to do" in the world in and of itself.
Exactly.
I would put looking at the world in SOTC way above collecting trinkets and killing 90% of enemies in games.
What's there to look at? The entire world is empty and barren. Going in the direction of the sword's beam is about as boring as going from point A to point B in any other game except at least in other games there are obstacles that make traveling interesting.
And careful now. What a couple of you have been calling generic and "shitty" is what's made every game in SotC's genre successful. SotC should be held to the same standards of any other game. It's bs to say that it somehow transcends those standards because it has a unique style of gameplay.
Edit: Why are you all making enemies out to be nothing more than a nuisance? They can be just as interesting as the Colossi.
lack of "stuff to do" in the world or not, I considered taking in the beautiful vistas as I travelled towards the next area that my sword beamed me towards enough "to do" in the world in and of itself.
Exactly.
I would put looking at the world in SOTC way above collecting trinkets and killing 90% of enemies in games.
What's there to look at? The entire world is empty and barren. Going in the direction of the sword's beam is about as boring as going from point A to point B in any other game except at least in other games there are obstacles that make traveling interesting.
And careful now. What a couple of you have been calling generic and "shitty" is what's made every game in SotC's genre successful. SotC should be held to the same standards of any other game. It's bs to say that it somehow transcends those standards because it has a unique style of gameplay.
Edit: Why are you all making enemies out to be nothing more than a nuisance? They can be just as interesting as the Colossi.
What? What other game is like SotC? I wasn't aware there was a 'kill 100 foot tall monsters as a normal guy with a sword' genre.
lack of "stuff to do" in the world or not, I considered taking in the beautiful vistas as I travelled towards the next area that my sword beamed me towards enough "to do" in the world in and of itself.
Exactly.
I would put looking at the world in SOTC way above collecting trinkets and killing 90% of enemies in games.
What's there to look at? The entire world is empty and barren. Going in the direction of the sword's beam is about as boring as going from point A to point B in any other game except at least in other games there are obstacles that make traveling interesting.
And careful now. What a couple of you have been calling generic and "shitty" is what's made every game in SotC's genre successful. SotC should be held to the same standards of any other game. It's bs to say that it somehow transcends those standards because it has a unique style of gameplay.
Edit: Why are you all making enemies out to be nothing more than a nuisance? They can be just as interesting as the Colossi.
What? What other game is like SotC? I wasn't aware there was a 'kill 100 foot tall monsters as a normal guy with a sword' genre.
I thought it was agreed that SotC was an action-adventure.
Edit: In fact by that description it almost fits the bill of Zelda give or take a few dozen feet from the monster.
So the cutscene starts and I see some kind of building there. Probably a fight atop a tower.
Then it moves.
I wish I could forget everything about this game just to play it again fresh.
oh shit and the quiet strings in the background whilst it looks at you from 100 feet up and hurls energy at you and the rain is coming down and there is thunder in the background and as you get to the top you can see for miles
lack of "stuff to do" in the world or not, I considered taking in the beautiful vistas as I travelled towards the next area that my sword beamed me towards enough "to do" in the world in and of itself.
Exactly.
I would put looking at the world in SOTC way above collecting trinkets and killing 90% of enemies in games.
What's there to look at? The entire world is empty and barren. Going in the direction of the sword's beam is about as boring as going from point A to point B in any other game except at least in other games there are obstacles that make traveling interesting.
And careful now. What a couple of you have been calling generic and "shitty" is what's made every game in SotC's genre successful. SotC should be held to the same standards of any other game. It's bs to say that it somehow transcends those standards because it has a unique style of gameplay.
Edit: Why are you all making enemies out to be nothing more than a nuisance? They can be just as interesting as the Colossi.
What? What other game is like SotC? I wasn't aware there was a 'kill 100 foot tall monsters as a normal guy with a sword' genre.
I thought it was agreed that SotC was an action-adventure.
Edit: In fact by that description it almost fits the bill of Zelda give or take a few dozen feet from the monster.
Please take your dichotomies and your preconceived stereotypes and walk right this way to the exit sir.
I understand everything you are saying Tonberry, but at the same time you just don't get it. Can you not just let your critical faculties go for once and breath in a world? I feel pity for you that you can't mate. I really do. You are so busy thinking, you are forgetting that it's not always important to think. Sometimes we can just be a feeling, emotional creature, with no distractions, no interesting little sidequests or interaction, no dialogue, and no direct storytelling.
If anything, it's a puzzle game.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
lack of "stuff to do" in the world or not, I considered taking in the beautiful vistas as I travelled towards the next area that my sword beamed me towards enough "to do" in the world in and of itself.
Exactly.
I would put looking at the world in SOTC way above collecting trinkets and killing 90% of enemies in games.
What's there to look at? The entire world is empty and barren. Going in the direction of the sword's beam is about as boring as going from point A to point B in any other game except at least in other games there are obstacles that make traveling interesting.
I find the entire world beautiful and interesting and I actually spent some good time just exploring.
Just because you move on in the game by following the beam from one Colossus to the next doesn't mean that this is the only way of deriving satisfaction from the game.
But even when I am moving straight from one Colossus to the next, my first couple of playthroughs, the world in which I was moving, even from one point to the next, taking in the world was reward enough.
Not all worlds have to have some ridiculous 'tangible' reward for it. I almost feel like it's more rewarding to explore for the sake of exploration and seeing what's out there and what you can do when I know I'm doing it for fun. Not for something possibly even more trivial, like an Achievement or an unlockable costume or whatever you had in mind....
In other games, you're going to have to be more specific.
And careful now. What a couple of you have been calling generic and "shitty" is what's made every game in SotC's genre successful.
And what is SOTC's genre, exactly?
SotC should be held to the same standards of any other game. It's bs to say that it somehow transcends those standards because it has a unique style of gameplay.
Holding it to the same standards of any other game, it quite well manages to exceed the vast majority of them, in terms of gameplay.
You're trying to frame that holding SOTC's unique aspects as ways in which it is good as a way to show that it is somehow 'unfair,' and yet, I think it's just as unfair, if not more so, to expect it to be a game that it's not and hold that against it.
This isn't grand theft auto.
Edit: Why are you all making enemies out to be nothing more than a nuisance? They can be just as interesting as the Colossi.
For me, the game is about feeling the desperation of the kid, with a sword, bow, and horse, doing everything he can to save someone he loves, stuck in the middle of a foresaken, barren, forbidden land. The feeling of awe I get travelling out there is like a set up before the ultimate climax of meeting the next Colossus. Exploring and digging into new areas to find the next colossus, knowing only the general direction, and yet uncovering these new areas is a reward in and of itself.
yeah, they could have put some shadow beasts or something between here and there. But I think that would have taken away from the awe and wonder of the world and the feelings that the game evokes.
Assuming they kept everything in the game as is, but with more enemies, it would have probably turned the travels between Collossi into an actual chore, rather than a serene exploration contemplating this huge lost land and the forthcoming battle against the next huge Collossus. I think it would have detracted from that. It would have taken away part of the uniqueness and experience of the game by removing that focus and shifting it onto some kind of arbitrary battles with worthless evil lackies that, really, are just in the way.
Even if the enemies 'along the way' were somehow unique, the gameplay is focused on a unique new style of platforming. To put enemies between them and maintain the quality of the game's focus on its unique platforming gameplay would either result in a) enemies between that require platforming to beat, thus marginalizing the battles with the actual collosi both in the experience you feel when you fight them and by making the gameplay while fighting them feel like less of an actual feat, or b) been enemies that are easily wasted cronies that takes away from the platforming gameplay by focusing on some kind of sword/bow combat.
action-adventure? So why does the game have to conform precisely to a preconcieved notion of what a genre should be like?
Just because the rewards are different doesn't make it any less of a good game. In fact, if SOTC's unique rewards are the kind that you enjoy, and heck, like me, hit you pleasantly by surprise, then the fact that it doesn't conform to some preconceived notion makes it even more refreshing and fun than a game that just runs through the typical motions.
It's almost on par with complaining that Metroid Prime is not as good because you have to go back to areas you've already been, and the controls are no good because it's not typical dual-analog. Just because they had preconcieved notions about how a game taken place from First Person that involved shooting things should be..
I understand not liking a game but you can't shoe horn a game into another genre and then say it doesn't work because of it. I didn't like Eternal Sonata but I'm not going to say because it wasn't funny enough.
I almost feel like SOTC is more of a cross between something like Endless Ocean and Prince of Persia with some interesting twists on concepts of presentation, storytelling, and the ways in which games can convey an emotion. Rather than, say, it being like a Zelda game.
How about the ruins? I never see this mentioned. Sure the colossi are there, but they obviously didn't build this tiny corridors or buildings, who built these things, and why?
How about the ruins? I never see this mentioned. Sure the colossi are there, but they obviously didn't build this tiny corridors or buildings, who built these things, and why?
See, if you were going to add stuff in add in some background stuff like this, where you can explore the world to try and find stuff out about it, not just a dungeon with an item at the end. If you do that you're trying to be Zelda.
How about the ruins? I never see this mentioned. Sure the colossi are there, but they obviously didn't build this tiny corridors or buildings, who built these things, and why?
It all goes back to the way the game is presented and its storytelling style. Not everything has a direct, actual, correct answer.
A lot of the fun of the story is, to me, the wonder of it all.
So we can speculate, and speculating on it is actually quite fun.
Posts
I need to get back to it, but I just can't figure out the damn thing. And my pride is currently at war with me on asking the internets for help.
I'll pop it in in a day or two and pray that the time away has cleared my mind.
That is exactly how you should think of it. Awesome. Awesome to the max.
________________
I shouldn't be spoiling anything by advising you this:
Try out all of the tools you have at your disposal...
and.. your horse is your best friend...
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
That's actually giving it away. You throw your horse at it until it dies... then you kill the colossus.
________________
XBL - Follow Freeman
Yeah, this is one of those games where I really had hoped they had just saved it for this current gen. The PS2 was just a little bit underpowered to really fully flesh out their vision. I'm excited for their next game whatever it'll be because they work so hard on having unique experiences but man a 360/PS3 SotC would have been fantastic.
________________
Then it moves.
I wish I could forget everything about this game just to play it again fresh.
They are working on a PS3 port. It was mentioned in the other Team Ico thread way back when.
What are they doing anyway? It's been so long since they've said anything.
The problem with SotC is, it's not for everyone. I honestly don't know what difference there is between those of us who view it as, pretty much, the pinnacle of gaming, and others who complain that it's too slow, that the controls suck, the framerate is in the toilet, et cetera.
The controls are excellent, imo. The 'slowness' of the progression is pretty much user-generated. You can hold up the sword and go straight towards the next fight, or cruise around the landscape grabbing lizard tails and fruit off trees. The framerate? I never noticed there was any slowdown 'till someone mentioned it on these forums.
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Just like ICO (which if you can find I highly reccomend you pick up - it's near impossible to locate now), as others have pointed out, Shadow's story is mostly a) told through animation and b) inferred and created by you, the player. Take for example Aggro. (And this IS a spoiler, if you haven't beated it, don't read it.)
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On that thread about 'games you regret buying,' I said There's a reason people on these forums hold up Shadow of the Colossus like it's baby Simba at the beginning of Lion King. It's not just the excellent gameplay, the wonderful music, the perfect animations or the minimal story - it's how they come together to be one of, if not the best game of the last generation of consoles, and totally sigworthy.
Here's a question: can a PS3 run PS2 discs from any region? That way I could get a US PS3 when I go there, and then play my UK copy of SotC again.
This game would be fucking epic if they redid it in HD.
Fucking epic.
When I finished ICO, I had no idea how they would do a sequel, I knew that they would not just settle for 'more of the same' and I hoped that they would make a more open world, but was unsure how they could do so without sacrificing some of the intricacy of ICO. They did it by designing a genius, subtle, and lovingly crafted game like no other.
Every aspect of it, from the control scheme, the animation, the music, the structure, the narrative, the character designs and the world are perfectly in tune, and have a coherent and cohesive direction.
Their next game is going to force me to gain usage of a PS3.
Badass artwork enclosed, not story spoilers -
This thread makes me feel stupid.
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Just look at Argo. He moves and acts just like a real horse, but many players get frustrated with his utter lack of intuitiveness. On several occasions I gave up on Argo completely and just hoofed it, so to speak. The camera is even worse in this respect. When Wander runs in a certain direction he realistically looks ahead. The camera is constantly swinging behind him to show the direction he's looking. Gamers who've grown up with today's platformers don't want that. They'd rather have the standard dual analog setup that's used in almost every game of its type. Thank god for lock-on, but even that fails to give a decent camera angle 90% of the time.
Fans of SotC might say that its minimalism is integral to the game but I find that it hurts the game more than it helps. I'm not sure what aim the developers were shooting for when they populated their huge world with only birds, lizards, fruit trees and giants. I can't see how this extreme minimalism helps the game in any way. There's nothing to see or interact with. Besides the Colossi battles there's hunting lizards and shooting fruit; that's it. That alone is absurd. I didn't even notice these side quests on my first playthrough, and had to see a guide before I learned that they even existed. How hard would it be to offer some tangible reward for exploring this vast world. Offering a tiny health and stamina boost is far from a good incentive. Those items you earn in Time Attack mode are pointless because by the time you earn them you've killed every Colossi. It isn't until the end of the game that you have something to find those damnable lizards. Too bad you have no real reason to boost your stamina. Why couldn't the developers placed these items in the over world? That alone would make it a lot more interesting.
Ideally, however, there should have been more than sixteen enemies (and a few others related to the ending) in the entire game. I have no doubt that adding some enemies would in no way lessen the impact of the Colossi. In fact making them actual bosses would probably enhance them. If someone can explain to me what's so horrible about enemies, that would be great.
There's also the issue of controls and frame rate but I never had a problem with them so I won't address them further.
People who really like SotC are people willing to look past its many flaws and love it for what it does well like with its art design and music.
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I think that while it's a game that isn't for everyone, I feel like SotC is a game that every person who considers themselves a well versed gamer needs to play. It's just an entirely atypical gaming experience that truly makes minimalist storytelling and gameplay shine. Not to mention that you're pretty much awestruck by every boss and boss fight location. The game is a gem.
All in all, there are very few games that evoke anything near that emotional experience, and definitely none with the sheer genious subtlety with which SotC crafted my emotions.
Anyone in this thread who considers themselves a gamer, not just a fan of a genre, or a series, but a true gamer owes it to themselves to at least experience this game.
DO NOT FISTPOUND
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Exactly.
I would put looking at the world in SOTC way above collecting trinkets and killing 90% of enemies in games.
I disagree with everything you said. All of those things are part of what make it such a rewarding experience. It isn't just another 8 hours of shitty dialog, factory standard gameplay, and nothing to think about. It's kind of like going into Tetris and being surprised about not about having a vast city to explore or epic gun fights or quick time events. It just isn't that kind of game.
As for enemies the colossi aren't meant to be enemies in the standard sense. So trying to put in random minions before the stereotypical big boss just doesn't work. They aren't rampaging around the country side destroying everything like your typical videogame enemy. They aren't even enemies at all.
YOU are the enemy whos running in and stabbing them while they are just chilling in their homes.
I never asked for this!
Yes.
After I killed the first Colossus, my instant reaction to seeing it fall was "D: What have I done?"
Then I went on to kill the next one.
There is something magical about that.
I wonder if they will add the extra colossi they had taken out. They said in an interview somewhere that they originally had twice as many than what was in the final game. The final number they ended up with though was a decent amount. Every colossi was very varied.
Here's some extra colossi that were removed, from a few old colossus threads.
In all my playthroughs something I was never able to do was
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAETwHNdzis
I only got up to his waist on my attempts, which still helped me to beat him on hard mode time trials.
Edit: Also everyone views the story of this game differently. That's what I like about it. The How and the why? You can find that out yourself. I compare this game to a low tech metroid, without item aquisition.
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And careful now. What a couple of you have been calling generic and "shitty" is what's made every game in SotC's genre successful. SotC should be held to the same standards of any other game. It's bs to say that it somehow transcends those standards because it has a unique style of gameplay.
Edit: Why are you all making enemies out to be nothing more than a nuisance? They can be just as interesting as the Colossi.
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What? What other game is like SotC? I wasn't aware there was a 'kill 100 foot tall monsters as a normal guy with a sword' genre.
I never asked for this!
Edit: In fact by that description it almost fits the bill of Zelda give or take a few dozen feet from the monster.
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yeah, that one
he deserved to die
oh shit and the quiet strings in the background whilst it looks at you from 100 feet up and hurls energy at you and the rain is coming down and there is thunder in the background and as you get to the top you can see for miles
Really, if they were, they'd just be more colossi
Please take your dichotomies and your preconceived stereotypes and walk right this way to the exit sir.
I understand everything you are saying Tonberry, but at the same time you just don't get it. Can you not just let your critical faculties go for once and breath in a world? I feel pity for you that you can't mate. I really do. You are so busy thinking, you are forgetting that it's not always important to think. Sometimes we can just be a feeling, emotional creature, with no distractions, no interesting little sidequests or interaction, no dialogue, and no direct storytelling.
If anything, it's a puzzle game.
I find the entire world beautiful and interesting and I actually spent some good time just exploring.
Just because you move on in the game by following the beam from one Colossus to the next doesn't mean that this is the only way of deriving satisfaction from the game.
But even when I am moving straight from one Colossus to the next, my first couple of playthroughs, the world in which I was moving, even from one point to the next, taking in the world was reward enough.
Not all worlds have to have some ridiculous 'tangible' reward for it. I almost feel like it's more rewarding to explore for the sake of exploration and seeing what's out there and what you can do when I know I'm doing it for fun. Not for something possibly even more trivial, like an Achievement or an unlockable costume or whatever you had in mind....
In other games, you're going to have to be more specific.
And what is SOTC's genre, exactly?
Holding it to the same standards of any other game, it quite well manages to exceed the vast majority of them, in terms of gameplay.
You're trying to frame that holding SOTC's unique aspects as ways in which it is good as a way to show that it is somehow 'unfair,' and yet, I think it's just as unfair, if not more so, to expect it to be a game that it's not and hold that against it.
This isn't grand theft auto.
For me, the game is about feeling the desperation of the kid, with a sword, bow, and horse, doing everything he can to save someone he loves, stuck in the middle of a foresaken, barren, forbidden land. The feeling of awe I get travelling out there is like a set up before the ultimate climax of meeting the next Colossus. Exploring and digging into new areas to find the next colossus, knowing only the general direction, and yet uncovering these new areas is a reward in and of itself.
yeah, they could have put some shadow beasts or something between here and there. But I think that would have taken away from the awe and wonder of the world and the feelings that the game evokes.
Assuming they kept everything in the game as is, but with more enemies, it would have probably turned the travels between Collossi into an actual chore, rather than a serene exploration contemplating this huge lost land and the forthcoming battle against the next huge Collossus. I think it would have detracted from that. It would have taken away part of the uniqueness and experience of the game by removing that focus and shifting it onto some kind of arbitrary battles with worthless evil lackies that, really, are just in the way.
Even if the enemies 'along the way' were somehow unique, the gameplay is focused on a unique new style of platforming. To put enemies between them and maintain the quality of the game's focus on its unique platforming gameplay would either result in a) enemies between that require platforming to beat, thus marginalizing the battles with the actual collosi both in the experience you feel when you fight them and by making the gameplay while fighting them feel like less of an actual feat, or b) been enemies that are easily wasted cronies that takes away from the platforming gameplay by focusing on some kind of sword/bow combat.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Just because the rewards are different doesn't make it any less of a good game. In fact, if SOTC's unique rewards are the kind that you enjoy, and heck, like me, hit you pleasantly by surprise, then the fact that it doesn't conform to some preconceived notion makes it even more refreshing and fun than a game that just runs through the typical motions.
It's almost on par with complaining that Metroid Prime is not as good because you have to go back to areas you've already been, and the controls are no good because it's not typical dual-analog. Just because they had preconcieved notions about how a game taken place from First Person that involved shooting things should be..
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
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What genre is Endless Ocean, anyway?
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
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See, if you were going to add stuff in add in some background stuff like this, where you can explore the world to try and find stuff out about it, not just a dungeon with an item at the end. If you do that you're trying to be Zelda.
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It all goes back to the way the game is presented and its storytelling style. Not everything has a direct, actual, correct answer.
A lot of the fun of the story is, to me, the wonder of it all.
So we can speculate, and speculating on it is actually quite fun.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games