They're a result of human facilitation of natural processes.
Your position doesn't actually say why we should treat Cylons differently, only that their evolutionary heritage traces to human intervention.
You're right, it doesn't. I don't think it's justified to treat the cylons differently because of what they are, but rather what they did. The mass extermination of humankind is inexcusable. The defense that the attack was in retalliaion for our enslavement of the cylons does not stand, because we were developing their technology at the time. They could hardly have known they were slaves back when they were boxy household androids. Claiming they were our slaves then is like claiming that a baby is the slave of its mother while in the womb.
This is actually an interesting topic of discussion, due in no small part to my interest in the show. I think it's telling that the subject material could spark such debate. It's an old idea, but one that Battlestar Galactica presents very professionally, and from many different perspectives. Kudos to the writers.
To state that there is no difference between a human brain and a turing machine is ludicrous. One is natural in origin, the other is not. You may narrow your argument by claiming that if the output of one is indistinguishable from the other, they are effectively the same. This, too, is false. Their output is the same. The fact remains that one was manually fabricated, and the other arose naturally. A tape recorder playing back the call of a songbird may fool another songbird into responding, but it is still just a tape recorder.
But to the bird, it's another bird. You can't step back to an objective position with these things - the whole point is that we're slaves to our own perceptions. Morality is not absolute.
What was that experiment where the people were asked to electrocute a test subject? That's exactly like this. They weren't really electrocuting someone - but they believed that they were. In terms of the human psyche, that's exactly the same thing. If you fully believe that you're raping someone, it's the same end result as if you actually had raped them - no matter if you can justify it away after the event by saying that it never really happened.
Another point:
You may not believe in souls - but the Cylons do. Doesn't that change your perspective?
Anyone who knows anything about robotics knows you can make something look human, but that doesn't make it any less artificial.
Anyone who knows anything about science fiction robotics knows that they can make thinking and feeling artificial beings.
No, really. The organic Cylons aren't freaking Aibos.
You're right, it doesn't. I don't think it's justified to treat the cylons differently because of what they are, but rather what they did. The mass extermination of humankind is inexcusable.
I can't describe how much I hate this argument.
You're supporting this race:
People do horrible things all the time, what do you think would happen if a human got his hands on the level of power the Cylons possess?
The whole point is that we are pretty damn equal, and I very much like this recent quote from Ron D. Moore:
In addition to the obvious real-life parallels with Iraq, Moore said: "It gives us a chance to upend a lot of expectations about what the show is. I mean, ... a lot of people look at the show and say, 'Well, are the Cylons Al-Qaeda and the Colonials are ... us?' And I've always said that's not really true, and the politics of the show kind of shift back and forth. ... It's about trying to upset expectations and about trying to make you think about issues and ideas from a different perspective.
You're right, it doesn't. I don't think it's justified to treat the cylons differently because of what they are, but rather what they did. The mass extermination of humankind is inexcusable.
I can't describe how much I hate this argument.
You're supporting this race:
[GODWINN'D!]
No, I'm not. Hitler exterminated the Jews because they were Jews, not for any real, significant crimes. I specifically said that our war with the Cylons was justified because they nuked our home worlds, NOT because they're artifical.
If you condone the extermination of humankind, I think you fit the "genocidal fascist" mould a little better than I.
People do horrible things all the time, what do you think would happen if a human got his hands on the level of power the Cylons possess?
AND WE PUNISH THEM FOR IT. Because of what they do, not who or what they are.
But to the bird, it's another bird. You can't step back to an objective position with these things - the whole point is that we're slaves to our own perceptions. Morality is not absolute.
Reality is not subject to our perception of it. This is extremely easy to establish if you have some mind altering intoxicants as well as a sober test group handy. Things change if you believe reality is specifically in your head, but that's generally a delusion reserved for megalomaniacs.
What was that experiment where the people were asked to electrocute a test subject? That's exactly like this. They weren't really electrocuting someone - but they believed that they were. In terms of the human psyche, that's exactly the same thing. If you fully believe that you're raping someone, it's the same end result as if you actually had raped them - no matter if you can justify it away after the event by saying that it never really happened.
Morally speaking, yes. But I'm not concerned with what's moral, but instead what's real.
You may not believe in souls - but the Cylons do. Doesn't that change your perspective?
The cylons have souls, in a manner of speaking. That is to say their consciousness can be transferred from one body to the next. If you wanted to abandon the supernatural definition of "soul" and redefine it as "an active instance of a sentient consciousness that had a natural birth, but which is not inextricable from its host brain" then I guess pretty much every living thing we can make a neural copy of has a "soul".
Merely that the human brain, while a machine, computes in a manner that is quite different from any artificial machine we have observed thus far.
So, because they're different, we can kill them with impunity?
No, I very carefully said before that it's what they did, not what they are, that justifies humankind's war with them. Apparently you either didn't read that portion, or you failed to understand it.
The defense that the attack was in retalliaion for our enslavement of the cylons does not stand, because we were developing their technology at the time. They could hardly have known they were slaves back when they were boxy household androids. Claiming they were our slaves then is like claiming that a baby is the slave of its mother while in the womb.
But you don't know anything about how that happened. You're talking about the first step to creating them, but you have no idea what happened next. Maybe they're wrong, maybe they're right, we have really no idea.
Hitler exterminated the Jews because they were Jews, not for any real, significant crimes. I specifically said that our war with the Cylons was justified because they nuked our home worlds, NOT because they're artifical.
If you condone the extermination of humankind, I think you fit the "genocidal fascist" mould a little better than I.
I said that we're equal. You said that you feel relief when they kill a sentient Cylon, by that logic killing every human is a good deed.
You've seen that even though they look alike they aren't all murderers. In fact every one we've seen so far was a solider carrying out orders, or a civilian making coffee for other civilian Cylons, and "we've" killed those too.
But to the bird, it's another bird. You can't step back to an objective position with these things - the whole point is that we're slaves to our own perceptions. Morality is not absolute.
Reality is not subject to our perception of it. This is extremely easy to establish if you have some mind altering intoxicants as well as a sober test group handy. Things change if you believe reality is specifically in your head, but that's generally a delusion reserved for megalomaniacs.
Once again, you're trying to separate reality from the perception of it, and that's impossible, unless you believe in God. The drunk people in that experiment have no other experience of the period of time they spent drunk. To them, the reality they experienced when they were drunk is reality. They cannot experience it any other way - they can only imagine it.
I'm not claiming that one person's perception of reality is "correct", rather than we each can only experience our own reality - thus, a perfect copy is indistinguishable - morally speaking - from the original.
Morally speaking, yes. But I'm not concerned with what's moral, but instead what's real.
IMO, that's the wrong stance to take. The Cylons felt that they were meting out cold, rational justice when they exterminated the human race. If you deal in justice without regard for morality, be prepared to commit grave sins.
You may not believe in souls - but the Cylons do. Doesn't that change your perspective?
The cylons have souls, in a manner of speaking. That is to say their consciousness can be transferred from one body to the next. If you wanted to abandon the supernatural definition of "soul" and redefine it as "an active instance of a sentient consciousness that had a natural birth, but which is not inextricable from its host brain" then I guess pretty much every living thing we can make a neural copy of has a "soul".
But Cylons believe in actual, supernatural souls. They belive that they are inherently better than humankind, not because they're "natural", but because they're chosen by God, which is, really, just another arbitrary distinction, like yours.
Merely that the human brain, while a machine, computes in a manner that is quite different from any artificial machine we have observed thus far.
So, because they're different, we can kill them with impunity?
No, I very carefully said before that it's what they did, not what they are, that justifies humankind's war with them. Apparently you either didn't read that portion, or you failed to understand it.
Didn't read it, actually.
But I still don't agree. On a scale such as this, justice becomes secondary to survival. One of the two sides has to bury the hatchet at some point. As Ghandi said: "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
Of course, the Collonials are justified in killing in self defence - which is, for the most part, what they have been doing. But torture, isn't really within that ambit.
And if you reduce each person/cylon you kill to just another weight on your scales of justice, then you've lost your humanity, because you're no longer ending lives or inflicting pain, you're simply balancing the equation. Justice is about more than pure numbers.
Killing Cylons for the sake of killing Cylons though isn't really quite the same thing in the world of BSG, because the Cylon's do not remain permanently dead. As Anders said - he wanted to make it that the Cylons would start to believe that no matter where they went on Caprica they might still die - an incidental matter to them, but a traumatic experience none the less, and a drain on their resources no matter how significant they are. Cylon resurrection makes them vulnerable to the ultimate purpose of all war weapons - to deplete the enemy, to force him to look after his wounded rather then attack you. Obviously the mechanics of the process subject this to proviso's however.
Killing humans in the show is a very different thing however - killing humans ENDS human lives in the process, and the Cylons can know but not understand this as we've seen - the message "we're leaving Caprica, no harm done". They were very afraid after Resurrection was destroyed - suddenly, they had an experience like the humans they kill did.
To state that there is no difference between a human brain and a turing machine is ludicrous. One is natural in origin, the other is not. You may narrow your argument by claiming that if the output of one is indistinguishable from the other, they are effectively the same. This, too, is false. Their output is the same. The fact remains that one was manually fabricated, and the other arose naturally. A tape recorder playing back the call of a songbird may fool another songbird into responding, but it is still just a tape recorder.
Your ignorance is astounding. By the very definition of a turing machine, the human brain is one. Anyway, the tape recorder is NOT a songbird, however it is a for all intents and purposes a songbird call. Its not the means that is important, but rather the end.
The argument that there is a fundamental difference because one is natural and one is not is, really, akin to the argument that black people are fundamentally different from white people because of the colour of their skin.
This does not mean we have souls. The human brain most certainly is a machine of sorts, but it is drastically different from any computer that we know exists today. My argument is that there is no reason to assume that just because a brain and a computer perform similar tasks, they must perform them in the same way.
Now you're just making stuff up. We don't know how the brain works, so your absolute statement that the human brain is drastically different from any computer that we know exists today is fallacious.
However, we believe that the brain uses neural networks to do all the many things that we do. And guess what? We've created neural nets on computers.
My initial argument likely drew your ire (and led you to make the telltale tautologous comparison) because it sounded similar to philosophical claims that humans are somehow different, special, and above other forms of life. (the "soul" being the rationale behind this) However I make no such claim. Merely that the human brain, while a machine, computes in a manner that is quite different from any artificial machine we have observed thus far.
Which absolutely doesn't matter in any way shape or form. There are no two human brains that compute in the same way. Are we to consider most humans not human? Your entire argument is retarded.
[spoiler:91ad3da6dc]
6,8 and lebon and doral on New Caprica.. they are with the 'good' hero cylons .. so .. are they going to protect against Xena warriror cylon and thsoe stil bent on destroying humans?
[/spoiler:91ad3da6dc]
[spoiler:e08adcced2]6,8 and lebon and doral on New Caprica.. they are with the 'good' hero cylons .. so .. are they going to protect against Xena warriror cylon and thsoe stil bent on destroying humans?[/spoiler:e08adcced2]
[spoiler:e08adcced2]Have you noticed anything going boom? Yeah... they're going to screw us this time.
I, for one, welcome our new, baby making overlords.[/spoiler:e08adcced2]
[spoiler:48a7013f56]Alright, so, what's up with the 6 in Baltar's head and Baltar in Hero 6's head? Sure, the MRI didn't pick up anything in his brain, but if the Cylons can create all of this high tech shit, they can surely create chips that can't be detected by conventional machines. Sure, he might be really crazy, but what about when Baltar misbehaved or whatever, and the 6 in his head left while a sleeper agent 6 came into play? There's no way it can be a coincidence that the 6 in his head leaves and then a real one comes out.
But, what about Baltar in Hero 6's head? There's no way he could have implanted a chip in her. Maybe she's crazy, but he really has a chip, or maybe they're both crazy?
It's been bugging me like crazy. Is there something I missed? Did they explain how the sleeper agent 6 randomly appeared when Baltar bisbehaved?
Also, I was really dissapointed in the finale. They just suddenly skip ahead a year. Sure, the series really wasn't going anywhere, but this just completely changed the tone of the series. It's all Gaida's fault [/spoiler:48a7013f56]
[spoiler:202ee65674]Alright, so, what's up with the 6 in Baltar's head and Baltar in Hero 6's head? Sure, the MRI didn't pick up anything in his brain, but if the Cylons can create all of this high tech shit, they can surely create chips that can't be detected by conventional machines. Sure, he might be really crazy, but what about when Baltar misbehaved or whatever, and the 6 in his head left while a sleeper agent 6 came into play? There's no way it can be a coincidence that the 6 in his head leaves and then a real one comes out.
But, what about Baltar in Hero 6's head? There's no way he could have implanted a chip in her. Maybe she's crazy, but he really has a chip, or maybe they're both crazy?
It's been bugging me like crazy. Is there something I missed? Did they explain how the sleeper agent 6 randomly appeared when Baltar misbehaved?[/spoiler:202ee65674]
[spoiler:202ee65674]A theory I liked from the last thread is that when Hero 6 died, something went wrong with the transfer process (insert techno-babble about EMP from the Nuke or summat) and Baltar ended up with a bit of 6 and 6 ended up with a bit of Baltar.[/spoiler:202ee65674]
[spoiler:0de3da1bcc]Alright, so, what's up with the 6 in Baltar's head and Baltar in Hero 6's head? Sure, the MRI didn't pick up anything in his brain, but if the Cylons can create all of this high tech shit, they can surely create chips that can't be detected by conventional machines. Sure, he might be really crazy, but what about when Baltar misbehaved or whatever, and the 6 in his head left while a sleeper agent 6 came into play? There's no way it can be a coincidence that the 6 in his head leaves and then a real one comes out.
But, what about Baltar in Hero 6's head? There's no way he could have implanted a chip in her. Maybe she's crazy, but he really has a chip, or maybe they're both crazy?
It's been bugging me like crazy. Is there something I missed? Did they explain how the sleeper agent 6 randomly appeared when Baltar misbehaved?[/spoiler:0de3da1bcc]
[spoiler:0de3da1bcc]A theory I liked from the last thread is that when Hero 6 died, something went wrong with the transfer process (insert techno-babble about EMP from the Nuke or summat) and Baltar ended up with a bit of 6 and 6 ended up with a bit of Baltar.[/spoiler:0de3da1bcc]
[spoiler:0de3da1bcc]Or maybe there's a less.. scientific explanation[/spoiler:0de3da1bcc]
[spoiler:dde71c4ca3]Alright, so, what's up with the 6 in Baltar's head and Baltar in Hero 6's head? Sure, the MRI didn't pick up anything in his brain, but if the Cylons can create all of this high tech shit, they can surely create chips that can't be detected by conventional machines. Sure, he might be really crazy, but what about when Baltar misbehaved or whatever, and the 6 in his head left while a sleeper agent 6 came into play? There's no way it can be a coincidence that the 6 in his head leaves and then a real one comes out.
But, what about Baltar in Hero 6's head? There's no way he could have implanted a chip in her. Maybe she's crazy, but he really has a chip, or maybe they're both crazy?
It's been bugging me like crazy. Is there something I missed? Did they explain how the sleeper agent 6 randomly appeared when Baltar misbehaved?[/spoiler:dde71c4ca3]
[spoiler:dde71c4ca3]A theory I liked from the last thread is that when Hero 6 died, something went wrong with the transfer process (insert techno-babble about EMP from the Nuke or summat) and Baltar ended up with a bit of 6 and 6 ended up with a bit of Baltar.[/spoiler:dde71c4ca3]
[spoiler:dde71c4ca3]Or maybe there's a less.. scientific explanation[/spoiler:dde71c4ca3]
A wizard did it.
EDIT:
Oh, and Kakos, when I saw that the chief was a union leader, you were the first person I thought of :P
Best not talk about the ships and physics involved. Or the dynamics behind the relationships the characters have. Or the technology shown.
Because that's not what BSG is about. BSG is about... something else.
??? I take it you hate BSG..
He's being extremely sarcastic in response to the claim that the philosophical discussion of whether cylons are mere machines or something more is off topic.
Oh, and Kakos, when I saw that the chief was a union leader, you were the first person I thought of :P
Awww. I love you too, Zse. The Chief Mario Tyrol speech had much fucking pumping my fists in the area and creaming my pants. It was truly a spectacle to behold.
[spoiler:50d70f0ae9]how can anybody not feel sorry for poor, pathetic mess, one-year-later gaius? he's a failure and he knows it, he's been sans-six for about... a year (who wants to bet he hadn't been hearing anybody in his head for a while?) and's turned to cheap women, pills and booze. it's very un-gaius of him and I hope he gets 'better' lotsa soon.
"Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right, you meet the same idiots coming around from the left." -- Clint Eastwood ***
[spoiler:2cc77bd74c]how can anybody not feel sorry for poor, pathetic mess, one-year-later gaius? he's a failure and he knows it, he's been sans-six for about... a year (who wants to bet he hadn't been hearing anybody in his head for a while?) and's turned to cheap women, pills and booze. it's very un-gaius of him and I hope he gets 'better' lotsa soon.
poor chap.[/spoiler:2cc77bd74c]
[spoiler:2cc77bd74c]My opinion of Gaius was much like my opinion of Adolf Hitler in Downfall: sad to be the guy, but it doesn't stop him being a dick.[/spoiler:2cc77bd74c]
Cyclons vs humans vs feelings .. nothing wrong with that discussion... but the thread turned into the puppy that lost its way.
I don't care if it wonders around on the grass.. but we needed just a little tug on the leash.
Spoilering to be safe :
I will pay cash money for a copy of the
[spoiler:e92b8e5a21]
"presidential Baltar" picture he had hanging on the wall.
[/spoiler:e92b8e5a21]
I was priceless. Much like a Christopher Walken mask.
Hehe, if you listen to the podcast one of producers said they wanted it when they were done with it (Couldn't recall if it was Moore or not).
Also, the Tyrol speech is actually word for word from some historic Union Leader's speech which I can't recall the name of either, they called the guys widow and got permission to use it. It's all in the podcast, good stuff.
Masume on
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Also, the Tyrol speech is actually word for word from some historic Union Leader's speech which I can't recall the name of either, they called the guys widow and got permission to use it. It's all in the podcast, good stuff.
[spoiler:95487b637d]"Humanity has surrendered, the war is finally over. We must now fulfill our true destiny -- so we will love them, and take care of them. Show them the glory of peace. And, like God, our infinite mercy will be matched only by our power. And complete control."[/spoiler:95487b637d]
lwt1973 on
"He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
First, he gave Hero Six access to the Colonial defences, and caused the genocide of his race.
[spoiler:9d7a520bbc]Then he gave Gina the nuke, and scarred her by having sex with her, pushing her to use the nuke and destroy Cloud 9.[/spoiler:9d7a520bbc]
[spoiler:9d7a520bbc]Then he pushed for the colonisation of New Caprica. One year later, they're all stuck on New Caprica, defenceless, because of him. And it was the detonation of his nuke that gave their position away.[/spoiler:9d7a520bbc]
...
[spoiler:9d7a520bbc]I can't wait for a chat between Baltar and Hero Six, with Baltar's Six and Six's Baltar next to them, messing them up [/spoiler:9d7a520bbc]
I wonder what the relations between Gaius and Caprica Six will look like, it would be fun if he'd reject her for a change, I imagine falling in love with twin sisters of your last year's lover could get tiresome.
[spoiler:dbb222e48b]It's all in the little looks onboard Colonial One, Caprica Six with her standard "Oh, I'm such a fragile killer machine, I need some loving!" and Gaius' millionth shade of "I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"[/spoiler:dbb222e48b]
Less of a prediction, and more of "what I think could happen":
[spoiler:9cc8543738]Folks blame Baltar for screwing them over- and the fact that he was a "collaborator" comes out. The remaining humans turn against him, and he's forced from the settlement. Hero 6 takes pity on him, and decides to hold on to him.
Adama and Apollo return, and somehow manage to rescue the surviviors of a guerrila war against the occupation. The rag-tag fugitive fleet begins again on the journey for Earth.
The Cylon split is reconciled, as the Humie-lovers feel betrayed, and vow to destroy them.
Baltar is used as a hound- to hunt them down.
This does take the show more towards the original series, but hey, I'm a sucker at heart.[/spoiler:9cc8543738]
Posts
As far as I know it's just 8pm Saturday, 6pm Sunday, and 3 or 4am on either day.
They're a result of human facilitation of natural processes.
You're right, it doesn't. I don't think it's justified to treat the cylons differently because of what they are, but rather what they did. The mass extermination of humankind is inexcusable. The defense that the attack was in retalliaion for our enslavement of the cylons does not stand, because we were developing their technology at the time. They could hardly have known they were slaves back when they were boxy household androids. Claiming they were our slaves then is like claiming that a baby is the slave of its mother while in the womb.
This is actually an interesting topic of discussion, due in no small part to my interest in the show. I think it's telling that the subject material could spark such debate. It's an old idea, but one that Battlestar Galactica presents very professionally, and from many different perspectives. Kudos to the writers.
But to the bird, it's another bird. You can't step back to an objective position with these things - the whole point is that we're slaves to our own perceptions. Morality is not absolute.
What was that experiment where the people were asked to electrocute a test subject? That's exactly like this. They weren't really electrocuting someone - but they believed that they were. In terms of the human psyche, that's exactly the same thing. If you fully believe that you're raping someone, it's the same end result as if you actually had raped them - no matter if you can justify it away after the event by saying that it never really happened.
Another point:
You may not believe in souls - but the Cylons do. Doesn't that change your perspective?
So, because they're different, we can kill them with impunity?
No, really. The organic Cylons aren't freaking Aibos.
I can't describe how much I hate this argument.
You're supporting this race:
People do horrible things all the time, what do you think would happen if a human got his hands on the level of power the Cylons possess?
The whole point is that we are pretty damn equal, and I very much like this recent quote from Ron D. Moore:
No, I'm not. Hitler exterminated the Jews because they were Jews, not for any real, significant crimes. I specifically said that our war with the Cylons was justified because they nuked our home worlds, NOT because they're artifical.
If you condone the extermination of humankind, I think you fit the "genocidal fascist" mould a little better than I.
AND WE PUNISH THEM FOR IT. Because of what they do, not who or what they are.
Reality is not subject to our perception of it. This is extremely easy to establish if you have some mind altering intoxicants as well as a sober test group handy. Things change if you believe reality is specifically in your head, but that's generally a delusion reserved for megalomaniacs.
Morally speaking, yes. But I'm not concerned with what's moral, but instead what's real.
The cylons have souls, in a manner of speaking. That is to say their consciousness can be transferred from one body to the next. If you wanted to abandon the supernatural definition of "soul" and redefine it as "an active instance of a sentient consciousness that had a natural birth, but which is not inextricable from its host brain" then I guess pretty much every living thing we can make a neural copy of has a "soul".
No, I very carefully said before that it's what they did, not what they are, that justifies humankind's war with them. Apparently you either didn't read that portion, or you failed to understand it.
I said that we're equal. You said that you feel relief when they kill a sentient Cylon, by that logic killing every human is a good deed.
You've seen that even though they look alike they aren't all murderers. In fact every one we've seen so far was a solider carrying out orders, or a civilian making coffee for other civilian Cylons, and "we've" killed those too.
Sure, and maybe one day Cylons would punish other Cylons, if factions different enough will form, right now they're just one gigantic military force.
Once again, you're trying to separate reality from the perception of it, and that's impossible, unless you believe in God. The drunk people in that experiment have no other experience of the period of time they spent drunk. To them, the reality they experienced when they were drunk is reality. They cannot experience it any other way - they can only imagine it.
I'm not claiming that one person's perception of reality is "correct", rather than we each can only experience our own reality - thus, a perfect copy is indistinguishable - morally speaking - from the original.
IMO, that's the wrong stance to take. The Cylons felt that they were meting out cold, rational justice when they exterminated the human race. If you deal in justice without regard for morality, be prepared to commit grave sins.
But Cylons believe in actual, supernatural souls. They belive that they are inherently better than humankind, not because they're "natural", but because they're chosen by God, which is, really, just another arbitrary distinction, like yours.
Didn't read it, actually.
But I still don't agree. On a scale such as this, justice becomes secondary to survival. One of the two sides has to bury the hatchet at some point. As Ghandi said: "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
Of course, the Collonials are justified in killing in self defence - which is, for the most part, what they have been doing. But torture, isn't really within that ambit.
And if you reduce each person/cylon you kill to just another weight on your scales of justice, then you've lost your humanity, because you're no longer ending lives or inflicting pain, you're simply balancing the equation. Justice is about more than pure numbers.
Killing humans in the show is a very different thing however - killing humans ENDS human lives in the process, and the Cylons can know but not understand this as we've seen - the message "we're leaving Caprica, no harm done". They were very afraid after Resurrection was destroyed - suddenly, they had an experience like the humans they kill did.
Your ignorance is astounding. By the very definition of a turing machine, the human brain is one. Anyway, the tape recorder is NOT a songbird, however it is a for all intents and purposes a songbird call. Its not the means that is important, but rather the end.
The argument that there is a fundamental difference because one is natural and one is not is, really, akin to the argument that black people are fundamentally different from white people because of the colour of their skin.
Now you're just making stuff up. We don't know how the brain works, so your absolute statement that the human brain is drastically different from any computer that we know exists today is fallacious.
However, we believe that the brain uses neural networks to do all the many things that we do. And guess what? We've created neural nets on computers.
Which absolutely doesn't matter in any way shape or form. There are no two human brains that compute in the same way. Are we to consider most humans not human? Your entire argument is retarded.
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Back on topic:
So... we have seen :
[spoiler:91ad3da6dc]
6,8 and lebon and doral on New Caprica.. they are with the 'good' hero cylons .. so .. are they going to protect against Xena warriror cylon and thsoe stil bent on destroying humans?
[/spoiler:91ad3da6dc]
Librarians harbor a terrible secret. Find it.
[spoiler:e08adcced2]Have you noticed anything going boom? Yeah... they're going to screw us this time.
I, for one, welcome our new, baby making overlords.[/spoiler:e08adcced2]
If by on topic .. they are talking about robots, and Battlestar:Galactica had robots in it, then, sure, its all relevent.
Librarians harbor a terrible secret. Find it.
o_O Are you retarded? God forbid we discuss the philosophical implications brought up in Battlestar Galactica in the Battlestar Galactica thread.
Because that's not what BSG is about. BSG is about... something else.
KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!
But, what about Baltar in Hero 6's head? There's no way he could have implanted a chip in her. Maybe she's crazy, but he really has a chip, or maybe they're both crazy?
It's been bugging me like crazy. Is there something I missed? Did they explain how the sleeper agent 6 randomly appeared when Baltar bisbehaved?
Also, I was really dissapointed in the finale. They just suddenly skip ahead a year. Sure, the series really wasn't going anywhere, but this just completely changed the tone of the series. It's all Gaida's fault
A wizard did it.
EDIT:
Oh, and Kakos, when I saw that the chief was a union leader, you were the first person I thought of :P
He's being extremely sarcastic in response to the claim that the philosophical discussion of whether cylons are mere machines or something more is off topic.
[spoiler:50d70f0ae9]how can anybody not feel sorry for poor, pathetic mess, one-year-later gaius? he's a failure and he knows it, he's been sans-six for about... a year (who wants to bet he hadn't been hearing anybody in his head for a while?) and's turned to cheap women, pills and booze. it's very un-gaius of him and I hope he gets 'better' lotsa soon.
poor chap.[/spoiler:50d70f0ae9]
[spoiler:2cc77bd74c]My opinion of Gaius was much like my opinion of Adolf Hitler in Downfall: sad to be the guy, but it doesn't stop him being a dick.[/spoiler:2cc77bd74c]
I don't care if it wonders around on the grass.. but we needed just a little tug on the leash.
Spoilering to be safe :
I will pay cash money for a copy of the
[spoiler:a73e0d6f4d]
"presidential Baltar" picture he had hanging on the wall.
[/spoiler:a73e0d6f4d]
I was priceless. Much like a Christopher Walken mask.
Librarians harbor a terrible secret. Find it.
Hehe, if you listen to the podcast one of producers said they wanted it when they were done with it (Couldn't recall if it was Moore or not).
Also, the Tyrol speech is actually word for word from some historic Union Leader's speech which I can't recall the name of either, they called the guys widow and got permission to use it. It's all in the podcast, good stuff.
Wii U - 'Nocero'
XBox ID - therealmasume
PS4 ID - realmasume
It's Mario Savio.
Check it out here
Also I loved the last VO:
[spoiler:95487b637d]"Humanity has surrendered, the war is finally over. We must now fulfill our true destiny -- so we will love them, and take care of them. Show them the glory of peace. And, like God, our infinite mercy will be matched only by our power. And complete control."[/spoiler:95487b637d]
First, he gave Hero Six access to the Colonial defences, and caused the genocide of his race.
[spoiler:9d7a520bbc]Then he gave Gina the nuke, and scarred her by having sex with her, pushing her to use the nuke and destroy Cloud 9.[/spoiler:9d7a520bbc]
[spoiler:9d7a520bbc]Then he pushed for the colonisation of New Caprica. One year later, they're all stuck on New Caprica, defenceless, because of him. And it was the detonation of his nuke that gave their position away.[/spoiler:9d7a520bbc]
...
[spoiler:9d7a520bbc]I can't wait for a chat between Baltar and Hero Six, with Baltar's Six and Six's Baltar next to them, messing them up
[spoiler:dbb222e48b]It's all in the little looks onboard Colonial One, Caprica Six with her standard "Oh, I'm such a fragile killer machine, I need some loving!" and Gaius' millionth shade of "I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"[/spoiler:dbb222e48b]
God, I love this guy. James Callis for president!
[spoiler:9cc8543738]Folks blame Baltar for screwing them over- and the fact that he was a "collaborator" comes out. The remaining humans turn against him, and he's forced from the settlement. Hero 6 takes pity on him, and decides to hold on to him.
Adama and Apollo return, and somehow manage to rescue the surviviors of a guerrila war against the occupation. The rag-tag fugitive fleet begins again on the journey for Earth.
The Cylon split is reconciled, as the Humie-lovers feel betrayed, and vow to destroy them.
Baltar is used as a hound- to hunt them down.
This does take the show more towards the original series, but hey, I'm a sucker at heart.[/spoiler:9cc8543738]