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Foreplay problems, sex in general, didn't think I need to make a thread, but god.
MC Mystery
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Okay, so I've been dating a girl for a little under 5 months, and it's been easily the happiest relationship of my life so far (I have a big awkward dating history, that I've asked for advice from these very boards a few times in the past, with shitty sad depressing breakup dealings/and or love triangles). This girl is fantastic, she's witty, sweet, and the prettiest girl I've ever known.
The only issue is that, well. I'm pretty sexually experienced for someone my age (18) and she was saving herself for the right person (who, around a month ago, I discovered, was apparently me), so all sounds good. This girl is really cool about it in general. On one of our earliest dates she admitted to me that she masturbated regularly (and apparently had never admitted this to anyone else before) and so I figured she might have some ideas in regards to sex that could lead to an easy transition into hot territory if we ever got to have sex (I like this girl enough, that if she had told me that she -wouldn't- have sex with me till marriage, I likely would have still continued the relationship, no problem, and I can be a shallow asshole sometimes, remember).
My last girlfriend too, was a virgin when we started dating (before it's brought up, no I'm not like, one of those guys who is into virgins, I just for some reason attract them), and she immediately after losing her virginity, wanted to try and ended up enjoying every possible sexual feat you can imagine (well, that's an exaggeration, but regardless, there was sex being had ALL THE TIME, and it was freaky stuff) so my sex life previous to current girlfriend had been pretty crazy. Just felt that should be mentioned before we proceed.
Current girlfriend, a month ago-ish decides to have sex with me. We had talked very little about it before, as I didn't want to bring it up because I didn't want her to feel pressured at all. We'd kiss, and I'd feel her up, she didn't feel me up, she got the occasional orgasm out of it, and all seemed normal I guess (however I was getting a bit privately frustrated that, I was getting her off, and she never even touched me unless I put her hand there, and regardless she never made any moves to get me out of my pants, but I couldn't be too bitter cause it wasn't like she was requesting me to go all clit-commander, it was just something that was an instinct for me), we end up having sex, I had undressed both of us (she helped me get her out of her clothes, but I removed mine of my own accord) and then we were making out, and groping on eachother (in this situation I had to place her hand on my penis, but once it was there she was going to town on it) and then she whispers in my ear "do you have condoms?" I did, and we proceeded to have intercourse. It was the usually first time awkwardness, I tried to be gentle, she insisted on trying to stick it out till I came, but it was taking too long, so I resigned her offer.
Later we have sex a second time, we make out for a ridiculously long time before I attempted to initiate sex again, she instantly wiggles out of her clothes and when we try to have sex, she comments, "what the fuck took you so long, I've been wanting to do it since I got here!" (mind you, she made no hints to this other than, I suppose that we were making out, which was just pretty normal for us anyway). When I get to the point of, preparing to penetrate, I notice she's dry as a bone. I had gotten her off once with my hand, and she was grinding onto me, apparently not realizing how dry she was, so I pull out some lube, no problem, and we start, but it wasn't enough I suppose and things hurt, so we stopped. Went back to making out, I ask if she'd kiss me while I masturbated, she said she'd feel weird, so I go finish up in the bathroom, come back, we resume making out and cuddling. Alls well.
Third time. Same as time two, but I'm out of sachets of lube at this point. So I start to lean down, to well, go down on her (something that unspokenly just seemed like something she was too self conscious, or grossed out by to allow me to do, she tightens her grip around me with her legs and tries to just resume intercourse attempt. I spit in my hand, and applied the saliva to both her vagina, and my hard on, and go in, after a few pushes, she's totally normal wet, and we proceed to have sex, which was pretty okay for me, not good in a technique sense, but good in a, I love this girl, and this is like a special thing. However, she just kind of laid there. Like, we kissed, and her breathing got a little heavy at times, but there was just this look about her that seemed, "meh" not, "Hurry up, I wish this was over!" meh, but like, like she wasn't sure what she should be doing in retaliation to what I was doing. It actually made it hard for me to climax, because of just the bored expression. I end up finishing, she gets very affectionate, and we talk briefly about it and she said some moments felt really good, and others just kind of felt and that she thinks her body just needs to get used to it (mind you, with my hands, the loudest noise I've ever heard this girl make when orgasming was an extended gasp, usually how I can tell she's orgasming is her whole body kind of quakes, this is as stated before, directly opposite of previous major sex partner, who was a screamer)
A couple weeks go by before we can have sex again. She doesn't bring it up, so I don't bring it up, I'm assuming it's just awkward for her, so she's not interested in doing it, so I don't bring it up. The night before we're going to hang out in a capacity where we'd have opportunity for sex, she's texting me and just talking about how badly she wants to have sex with me. I ask her, what sort of sexual acts she's interested in me performing (as I gather by her strategy in foreplay/intercourse of just laying there, she doesn't intend to be doing anything, but I haven't made mention of that to her) she just says she doesn't care as long as it's with me, and that I get her so worked up, ect, ect.
The next day, we makeout for about 40 minutes, I get her off with my hands, and then we start having sex, and she's totally wet on her own this time, and her breathing is pretty consistently heavy throughout and it all feels very hot and stuff, but nothing seems to be implying climax, so after about 40minutesish of that, I climax and we cuddle, I'm unsure of whether she's orgasmed or not, but I assumed not, but her cuddling up afterwards was much more affectionate than normal. We proceed to cuddle for an hour or so naked and just joking around. I try to start making out with her later, and she shoots it down, not verbally, but just, if I tried to kiss her, she'd kiss back, but make the kiss the sort of, "this is a peck" when I was trying to initiate what at this point is our brand of foreplay.
She leaves, and comments how she wishes we could do that every night, and I want to ask, but don't if she included the sexing in what she meant, as I'm getting very insecure about it, and don't know what to do.
So I guess my question is, how do I get my girlfriend to open up to foreplay and be willing to talk about sex in a capacity outside of, "I like it"? I keep trying, and I keep getting nowhere, and it's driving me crazy.
Like, if she wants to have sex so much, why doesn't she actually put the moves on me other than kissing me at all? Like, she'll initiate making out, but once there, it seems like it's ALL up to me. The closest she came to being assertive was on the third time, when we had gotten naked, she kept trying to pull me on top of her, but it just didn't even seem like that did much for her.
I'm so lost and frustrated in all of this.
The only issue is that, well. I'm pretty sexually experienced for someone my age (18) and she was saving herself for the right person (who, around a month ago, I discovered, was apparently me), so all sounds good. This girl is really cool about it in general. On one of our earliest dates she admitted to me that she masturbated regularly (and apparently had never admitted this to anyone else before) and so I figured she might have some ideas in regards to sex that could lead to an easy transition into hot territory if we ever got to have sex (I like this girl enough, that if she had told me that she -wouldn't- have sex with me till marriage, I likely would have still continued the relationship, no problem, and I can be a shallow asshole sometimes, remember).
My last girlfriend too, was a virgin when we started dating (before it's brought up, no I'm not like, one of those guys who is into virgins, I just for some reason attract them), and she immediately after losing her virginity, wanted to try and ended up enjoying every possible sexual feat you can imagine (well, that's an exaggeration, but regardless, there was sex being had ALL THE TIME, and it was freaky stuff) so my sex life previous to current girlfriend had been pretty crazy. Just felt that should be mentioned before we proceed.
Current girlfriend, a month ago-ish decides to have sex with me. We had talked very little about it before, as I didn't want to bring it up because I didn't want her to feel pressured at all. We'd kiss, and I'd feel her up, she didn't feel me up, she got the occasional orgasm out of it, and all seemed normal I guess (however I was getting a bit privately frustrated that, I was getting her off, and she never even touched me unless I put her hand there, and regardless she never made any moves to get me out of my pants, but I couldn't be too bitter cause it wasn't like she was requesting me to go all clit-commander, it was just something that was an instinct for me), we end up having sex, I had undressed both of us (she helped me get her out of her clothes, but I removed mine of my own accord) and then we were making out, and groping on eachother (in this situation I had to place her hand on my penis, but once it was there she was going to town on it) and then she whispers in my ear "do you have condoms?" I did, and we proceeded to have intercourse. It was the usually first time awkwardness, I tried to be gentle, she insisted on trying to stick it out till I came, but it was taking too long, so I resigned her offer.
Later we have sex a second time, we make out for a ridiculously long time before I attempted to initiate sex again, she instantly wiggles out of her clothes and when we try to have sex, she comments, "what the fuck took you so long, I've been wanting to do it since I got here!" (mind you, she made no hints to this other than, I suppose that we were making out, which was just pretty normal for us anyway). When I get to the point of, preparing to penetrate, I notice she's dry as a bone. I had gotten her off once with my hand, and she was grinding onto me, apparently not realizing how dry she was, so I pull out some lube, no problem, and we start, but it wasn't enough I suppose and things hurt, so we stopped. Went back to making out, I ask if she'd kiss me while I masturbated, she said she'd feel weird, so I go finish up in the bathroom, come back, we resume making out and cuddling. Alls well.
Third time. Same as time two, but I'm out of sachets of lube at this point. So I start to lean down, to well, go down on her (something that unspokenly just seemed like something she was too self conscious, or grossed out by to allow me to do, she tightens her grip around me with her legs and tries to just resume intercourse attempt. I spit in my hand, and applied the saliva to both her vagina, and my hard on, and go in, after a few pushes, she's totally normal wet, and we proceed to have sex, which was pretty okay for me, not good in a technique sense, but good in a, I love this girl, and this is like a special thing. However, she just kind of laid there. Like, we kissed, and her breathing got a little heavy at times, but there was just this look about her that seemed, "meh" not, "Hurry up, I wish this was over!" meh, but like, like she wasn't sure what she should be doing in retaliation to what I was doing. It actually made it hard for me to climax, because of just the bored expression. I end up finishing, she gets very affectionate, and we talk briefly about it and she said some moments felt really good, and others just kind of felt and that she thinks her body just needs to get used to it (mind you, with my hands, the loudest noise I've ever heard this girl make when orgasming was an extended gasp, usually how I can tell she's orgasming is her whole body kind of quakes, this is as stated before, directly opposite of previous major sex partner, who was a screamer)
A couple weeks go by before we can have sex again. She doesn't bring it up, so I don't bring it up, I'm assuming it's just awkward for her, so she's not interested in doing it, so I don't bring it up. The night before we're going to hang out in a capacity where we'd have opportunity for sex, she's texting me and just talking about how badly she wants to have sex with me. I ask her, what sort of sexual acts she's interested in me performing (as I gather by her strategy in foreplay/intercourse of just laying there, she doesn't intend to be doing anything, but I haven't made mention of that to her) she just says she doesn't care as long as it's with me, and that I get her so worked up, ect, ect.
The next day, we makeout for about 40 minutes, I get her off with my hands, and then we start having sex, and she's totally wet on her own this time, and her breathing is pretty consistently heavy throughout and it all feels very hot and stuff, but nothing seems to be implying climax, so after about 40minutesish of that, I climax and we cuddle, I'm unsure of whether she's orgasmed or not, but I assumed not, but her cuddling up afterwards was much more affectionate than normal. We proceed to cuddle for an hour or so naked and just joking around. I try to start making out with her later, and she shoots it down, not verbally, but just, if I tried to kiss her, she'd kiss back, but make the kiss the sort of, "this is a peck" when I was trying to initiate what at this point is our brand of foreplay.
She leaves, and comments how she wishes we could do that every night, and I want to ask, but don't if she included the sexing in what she meant, as I'm getting very insecure about it, and don't know what to do.
So I guess my question is, how do I get my girlfriend to open up to foreplay and be willing to talk about sex in a capacity outside of, "I like it"? I keep trying, and I keep getting nowhere, and it's driving me crazy.
Like, if she wants to have sex so much, why doesn't she actually put the moves on me other than kissing me at all? Like, she'll initiate making out, but once there, it seems like it's ALL up to me. The closest she came to being assertive was on the third time, when we had gotten naked, she kept trying to pull me on top of her, but it just didn't even seem like that did much for her.
I'm so lost and frustrated in all of this.
Your sig is too tall. -Thanatos
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As to how you get her to open up, have you tried talking to her about it in a comfortable, non-sexual setting? If you ask when you're having sex or about to have sex, her brain might be in sex-mode, not talking-mode, or she might feel weird or pressured. Just bring it up straightforwardly: "Hey, I'd find it really sexy if you took control a little more during sex. What kind of things do you like to do best? Do you have any fantasies that you'd like to explore, 'cause I'd be completely up for that." Talk about things you like to do with her, ask her about what she'd like to do with you, blah blah blah. Communication is the number one tool for better sex, period.
Also, you might want to ask her about the oral sex thing, making sure to reassure her that you find her hot and that you enjoy doing it. There's a lot of bullshit that guys don't like to give oral, or that the vulva is gross-looking, or smells bad, or whatever; let her know that she's gorgeous and that you'd love to go down on her.
She might not be able to reliably come from intercourse ever. Most women can't. It's good that you're getting her off before just sticking it in. She probably does enjoy PIV, though, and she'll enjoy it even more if you do pleasurable things with her during sex, such as making out, playing with her breasts, rubbing her clit with your fingers, etc.. Personally, I've found that a lot of women don't have the mindset of sex as something you do until you come and then stop; it's fun for its own sake, whether an orgasm is involved or not.
First of all, thanks for replying, this post actually made me a feel a little better.
Yeah, I keep trying to get her to talk to me about it. Cause like, she won't. If I start asking her questions in a non sexual setting (I know how talking about stuff like this can end up killing the mood or becoming a blunder if it's brought up during) It occurred to me after you said that though, that I've never voiced what I want out of this. I guess my fear is, I'd make her feel inadequate, which isn't the case at all. I just want to make sure we're both getting as much as possible out of this. Perhaps if I open with, "hey, I want to go down on you!" maybe she'd be like, "Well I'd like -something-!" My only worry is that I'll be like, "I want to go down on you!" and she'll be like, "Theres nothing more disgusting than oral sex! GTFO" and I'll be like, "Sadface Emoticon" Because an issue for me, is I love foreplay, like, I love it on me, I love doing it for others, and a big part of that for me is oral sex, and I mean, what if at the end of the day she thinks MY no no bits are gross for mouths? Sexuality can be such a dangerzone, and I don't want to find out that I'm compatible with this girl in every way but the bedroom, cause that'd be the biggest letdown this side of *video game reference, probably about a 3D sonic*.
Yeah I'm aware she likely won't be able to. My last girlfriend not once did (and the girl before that, coincidently enough, could ONLY come from penetration). It's been my experience that it's a good time for all involved, but not really the finale, for the ladies. My problem is I'm not sure if she's aware. I don't want her to be feeling like she's awaiting the day that sex feels the way she pictured it based on the ladies in porn or something.
I don't think "Hey, I'd really really really love to go down on you, I love doing it and you're the sexiest woman alive" is going to be met with "GTFO" from any sane person. She might not be comfortable with it, and you can ask her why and try to work through whatever's going on there, but I wouldn't worry about offending her. (You might want to suggest that you go down on her in the shower. It'd take care of any worries she has about cleanliness.) Ditto for her going down on you; ask her about it, don't expect her to just jump into it. She may be worried about how you taste or if she's going to be good at it or if you'll pull her hair like guys do in porn. Let her know that you'd love it if she tried it, you're not going to push her to keep going until you get off, etc.. Have you guys ever just played with each other's bodies? Not in a sexual way, just in a laying-around-naked, goofing off way. That might also help her get comfortable. After all, yours is the only other naked body she's had access to.
You might want to point her to some sexual health websites. http://www.scarleteen.com/ is a good one aimed toward teenagers; if she's got livejournal, the sex tips community is very helpful and positive, and the people there are usually friendly towards "newbie" questions.
positive reinforcement. Ie when she's 'going to town' after you've placed her hand, let her know how good it feels. after sex cuddling, say you really liked when she "whatevered". That way she'll know it's good and to keep doing it
It can be pretty fun to make a suggestive comment online or over the phone and see where it goes, sometimes people can be more willing to admit or talk through their fantasies when there's a little less "in your face" discussion.
Obviously this should just be used as a spring board for more bedroom and together discussion but it might get her thinking.
If someone hasn't had sex many times they likely won't have a laundry list of fantasies. Maybe share your own thoughts about things you would like, even just different locations (shower, etc) and see what gets her interested.
See. This would be the normal reaction, but I once dated a girl, who for like the first year, of frequent intercourse claimed to be "getting used to it" forever, and then it just turned out she had crazy puritan beliefs in sex and just had this attitude that it was an indignity she had to go through to keep a boyfriend, so the phrase, "I just have to get used to" frightens and scares me. However I'm very secure in the fact that this girl isn't crazy. So, still solid advice, I just feel I need to explain why I'm kind of freaking out over it.
Ooh the shower thing sounds like something she'd go for. She frequently makes reference to wanting to shower with me. The only problem is my shower is a stand up only affair, and she still lives with her rents, who aren't comfortable with her having guys at the house when they aren't there (this rule applies also to girls, for her brother, who is like, significantly older than us and still lives at home) and they aren't the type to be accepting of us making a dash for the shower together.
Yeah we've layed about for hours naked and just kind of goofed around. She still covers herself up anytime she'd be visible (it's actually kind of cute). Like, she's still very shy.
Which is why, I'm not expecting her to be like, "BLOWJOBSDOGGYSTYLEONATRAMPLINEWITHTHREEMIDGETS" but I just want to be able to talk about it with her, and I feel like she's too shy to talk about it, and thats what bothers me, cause I feel very awkward when we're doing it, but I don't want to stress my need to talk by being like, "I feel really awkward.." but by asking to talk about it in nice ways, I just keep getting dodged.
I can't think of way to present her with these that wouldn't seem UBER-condescending. I was thinking of asking one of our mutual friends to take her aside and be like, "Did MC Mystery go down on you yet? I hear it's pretty ACE!" but our only mutual "friend" is the type of girl, who's too competitive for male attention to ever talk to a girl any man in her life is interested in other than her, without being a bitch. Her and my girlfriend recently had a falling out (on an unrelated issue), and all of her other friends are superchristians/waiting till marriage so jesus doesn't eat them.
EDIT: I think I've got all the input I need guys, however I won't declare thread over till I try talking to her again using some of Trowizilla's advice. So don't close yet.
Sometimes a woman needs a little emphasis and talking dirty in bed (if she can handle it) can get things pretty hot. Now this certainly can backfire on you if she is pretty conservative which by reading, she is not. She just seems to be shy about it. Try incorporating some of that. That might get her more into it.
Nothing is worse then quiet sex. You may as well be reading.
Silly personal anecdote time: what finally got me over being slightly weirded out at my first serious boyfriend's junk was him wiggling it like an elephant trunk and trumpeting. Be silly! Blow raspberries on her stomach, draw a smiley face under her boobs, have naked tickle-fights. You want her to associate being naked with you with being relaxed and having fun, not just for sex.
I brought up blowjobs kind of joking around with her, and her instant response was, "hell no" this came as such a, *clears throat* blow to me and my sexual desires (I'm not crazy about blowjobs, but I hate the idea that I -can't- have one, you know?) I was tempted to try and talk more, but fear of being let down more made me keep my mouth shut.
We're hanging out soon hopefully, but it'll likely be at her parents place, which means we won't be able to have any of the serious talks I'm feeling I want to/don't want to have.
I'm an uber-sexual person, and I'm honestly terrified that this girl I'm mad about won't be compatible with me in that way, and I just don't want that to be the case. Gah.
(chop chop chop)
Yah, y'know after cutting down your story to its essentials, it seems pretty straightforward.
Thats awesome. I hope you like her for her insides as well as her outsides. And insides.
Maybe you're experienced, sure. Maybe you've done it a whole lot. It sounds like you know your way around the situation, and you've been there before. I'm going to try my best to not be a douche while I write this, but I need for you to consider the possibility that despite your experience, you're just not that good at it. I think you've done this already, otherwise I wouldn't even bother with a response.
Let's take a look:
Okay, so this part is telling me a few things. Your last girlfriend was naturally sexually expressive and aggressive. Kudos! Those are a lot of fun. Horny, aggressive girls are great, but there is a cost to pay- you don't learn much. If you are inept, they will rock you until they hit the right spot for themselves. They will put bits of themselves in reach, knowing that that's what you'll go for, because that is where they want to be touched. They are easy to please, very encouraging, and tend to do most of the work - so the job gets done right. Exploration is a marvelous, fun and wonderful thing. Unfortunately, that's their skill, not yours. However, you seem to have gotten the nuts and bolts of it down at this point in your sexlife, so theres that much.
And Then:
Wow. What a very special moment you shared there. Awkwardness is cool if it's -your- first time. But you're repping as someone knowledgeable here. What happened? She turned down how many offers in how many situations to get... a pretty sub-par first time story. But hey, first times suck. Everybody says that, everybody knows that, so maybe the next time will be better. Everybody knows the next time is better.
Are you goddamn kidding me? Way to let her know that you prefer the feel of your own fingers to her womanly charms. Bonus points for making a quick squirt more important than the girl. You know when you were five and wanted to build a cool spaceship, but it looked sort of crappy, and so someone took over the whole thing and built it for you because they thought you sucked at making things? Yah. You pretty much crapped all over her first-time-out, lopsided Spaceship of Love there.
We start to see this whole pattern of you thinking you already know how things should go, and then getting frustrated and impatient when things don't turn out the same as they did before. You have an expectation of the process, but its a different person and so you need to get on board with a different process, a different progression, a different way to be. Every girl is different. Yah, sure, they have similarities and commonalities, but those are all on the surface. Underneath, every girl, every person is wired in their own unique way.
See, now she's just putting up with you because she doesn't know any better. 'Obviously', if she is the inexperienced one, she must be doing something wrong, so she's just lying back while you do your thing so that you can get one off. Its not as much fun as she had thought, but she must be doing something right, because at least she doesn't wind up second place to your hand this time. By the sounds of the chatter, there are moments when you connect, but there are other moments when she feels disconnected from you, as if you are focusing on the end result, orgasm, instead of her. Which is true.
She's covering for you, making it her problem ('needs to get used to it') when really, you're the one who's lost sight of what is truly important here. The journey, the way to be connected together effectively and completely. If you're not in it for her (and she for you) then really you've just turned her into the worlds most complicated sex toy. She seems like a very feelings oriented person, and no doubt this type of intimate disconnection is brutal for her. She's probably all kinds of confused about how this bonding experience keeps going so wrong. You think she's in it for the pleasure, because you're in it for the pleasure, but the truth of it is she just wants to be closer to you.
Obviously the issue is becoming more or less resolved. She is learning to think along your lines, being open to whatever sexual experiences, because you are going to be a part of them. The chatter doesn't mean much, because in having done almost nothing sexually, the terms don't mean anything - its all just theory, and theory so far has been a bitch. She interested in more of it though, most people are.
You see, sex here is becoming 'permission' to enter into a closer, more intimate state. She's happy she can please you, no doubt wants to see you satisfied, and prolly happier than a pig in poo about getting some hardcore emotional affections. Congratulations, she is slowly becoming trained that sex is way to become closer emotionally, even if the experience itself is somewhat bland. Its a trade off, you get what you want, she gets what she wants.
Which is the major problem with the 'trade-off' style of sex-then-cuddles. Because you cheated the system, and just found a way to get off instead of becoming closer through sex, now shes got the impression that to get any actual closeness, she needs to put out for an hour and a half. If she's got even half a brain up in her head, it won't be long before she starts wondering if a) the enjoyment problem might be you, b) if you actually care about her or if you're just using her as an organic sperm bank, and c) that maybe you two need to connect more emotionally before going too hard physically.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure she enjoys parts of the experience. I'll bet anything she really, really likes you and would do just about anything to make sure that she can spend time with you, doing things you both enjoy. Its kind of tragic really, because when one looks at the big picture, I really think you genuinely want her to have a good time, and to enjoy her sex life with you. But like an unfortunate majority of men, you still think sex is about squirting together. You may in fact have to set that aside for a while to build a foundation for real and meaningful sex life.
Think of it as catch-up. All your so-called experience has only taught you how to be with other people, and so you have a lot of misconceptions and incorrect assumptions about this one. You have bad habits and outdated info. You are the one who needs to be trained here, to see her body as it is, to run over her body, to know her soft spots, to learn and memorize how her body and mind is connected.
Sure, you know it 'enough', and she's comfortable enough to let you join intimates. Doesn't mean you actually know how her body is put together, what things really connect with her, what things she feels to her core. If you knew these things, you wouldn't be asking these questions, so start from scratch. Start from scratch with a need to impress, because boyo, you need to impress. Set your own need to squirt aside for a while. Learn what she likes, and how she likes it done. Learn what she likes to think about in bed, what she focuses on, learn her own special and unique sensitivities. Learn what sets her apart from the other people you've been with, not what she has in common with them.
Take your sweet-ass time. Hours. Hours upon hours, and if the sex never happens, then let it go and be good with just petting. Stand before you crawl, crawl before you walk. Making out is pretty much freeplay, so standing for you is going to mean keeping her wet and excited for two hours and then some sans coitus. Crawling is going to be being able to make her come within five minutes of you being able to tell she wants to. Once you can crawl four or five times in a row within half an hour, consistently, you might be able to walk. The good news is, it's mutual exploration. She should be revving you up so hard you can come in just a few minutes yourself. This 40mins BS is for powerfucking, not amateurs, and she isn't there yet.
And that thing where you get off without her? Don't do that. Aside from bad signals, it's just rude. You're cheating her out of your own desire while she's there, trying to understand it. Let it build. Desire will burn away everything but her, it's your male home team advantage. Ten bucks says she'll be able to feel that energy trying to connect with her from a mile away, and we already know thats what she's going for here- connection.
To clarify, she liked the part where you were all sweaty, happy and satisfied, in a tangled mess of arms and chests and limbs, thinking about how good it was just to be there with each other.
1.* She thinks sex is a normal part of relationship, and she wants to have a relationship with you. She, like every other normal person, initiates when she's in familiar territory. Sex isn't it.
2. **You set yourself up as the pro, and you told her with your actions that she's bad at it. Shes being the good sport and taking her cues from you, but in actual fact you don't have a clue either. Its all blind leading the blind bullshit up in here, and that is why:
Again, not wanting to be a douche; but somewhere in this thread things got so all of a sudden she was the one who had some sort of issue, when clearly it is your fault and your problem.
Implying to a virgin that they need to learn more about sex so they can satisfy 'the pro' is pretty much the worst goddamn aberration of sexual responsibility I've ever heard. The more experienced a person is, the more responsible they are for controlling themselves and adjusting or facilitating the sexual experience- for the other person. Everybody already knows how to get themselves off, that isn't a skill. Being good in bed (and all the delights of reciprocation that come with it) refers to how much the other person enjoys it.
See that's my issue here, as I stated earlier in the thread, this is a girl that I'd be willing to be with, if it turned out for some reason, she had no vagina at all, but some sort of antivagina. I don't want to say penis, cause theres a difference between gay sex and no sex (as in, I wouldn't compare my SO having a penis, with being asexual, cause I could still rock that) My issue in this, is that she clearly wants to pursue a physical relationship, and I want to know the best way to go about doing this.
Oh god, I don't think I'm like, a fantastic sex0r or anything like that. Dear god the insecurities I have (which I'm sure are every other guys insecurities as well) I've had my fair share of 100% failed sexual attempts, and I don't consider myself a casanova. All I meant by experienced, was I like certain things, there are certain weird things I already know about myself and my needs in a sexual relationship, and yes, I'm worried that my desires will scare off the girl in question.
See this IS my problem, this is exactly why I'm bringing up the ex-girlfriend here in this thread. The girl before her was crazy non-expressive aggressive and no matter how satisfied I would be with the physical side of our relationship, I never felt like I was capable of bringing her the full enjoyment she needed, and even though she'd reassure me, it just haunted me and drove me nuts. I don't want that to happen with this girl, and I know my weaknesses, if I feel like I'm a terrible lay, I'll end up doing stupid shit to boost my own ego, and I don't want her to lie to me, or me to feel like she is. I just want to be able to talk about it with her in a way that's not dismissively like, "I have strong feelings for you, so sex is good."
The look of pain in her eyes was awful. I finished up in the bathroom because she had stopped the sex, resigned that her vagina was in too much horrible pain to do it again, but still wanted to cuddle with me. I asked for some assistance in getting off, so that I wouldn't end up trying again that day, she said she'd prefer it if I did it in the bathroom. This was by her request.
In every conversation I have ever had with her I have never made reference to being more experienced than her, and in friendly joke-y conversations my past comes up, but in intimate sorts of conversations of emotional or physical level I'm not comparing her to my past, and she knows this.
I'm not focusing on orgasming at all, if anything I'm desperately fighting it at this point. The entire time, I'm just trying to make it as enjoyable for her as possible, but she just seems so disconnected, so far away. It seems like the cliche thing you'd read on a pamphlet detailing how to tell when someone isn't into you. I feel nothing but guilt and insecurity being on top of her and seeing that I'm doing nothing right. That theres nothing I can do, because she isn't going to veer into familiar territory. This is the woman I love, and theres nothing I can do to make this work. I'm not blaming her or her inexperience, I'm just saying that I'm terrified of losing her because of my own insecurities brought about via her inexperience and shyness towards the topic.
Honestly. What I find erotic, what I find I'm after in these situations, is that satisfaction of knowing I'm giving her what she wants. I'm completely submissive in my ideal sexual situation, so my ideal is whatever the woman wants out of it, is what she takes, but I feel like she's just performing an act she feels is necessary for my affections, and that infuriates me, as all I want is to make her happy. When her and I talk about it, she talks about sex like I'm used to, like a physical urge to be close to me. But when we're in the act, I feel like I've never been farther away from her, which makes me feel like shit. I feel like I'm using her, I feel like I'm making a mockery of our relationship, and I want that feeling to go away.
The thing is, is that pre-sex, as in, previous to it entering our relationship, and also in situations where we don't have sex, I'm uber-affectionate. Holding her hand gives me just as much satisfaction as sex could. To be near her is to feel safe, to feel happy, ect.
It's not that I'm being like, "I'm pressing the A button, why isn't Mario jumping?" in regards to sex with her. It is quite literally, my problem, that all I want to do in the whole world when we start to become intimate is explore every inch of her body and figure out what makes her tick. I am well fucking aware that no two women are the same, and I want nothing more than to learn about her more in this way. She is not of this mindset, I've managed to learn little things about her likes and dislikes, getting a little closer each time, however, she's very nonverbal, and because of the ticklish factor (as I've stated before she is so ticklish, she collapses in giggle fits from a kiss on the cheek) exploring her body at great length is something she forcefully is against.
The bolded part, is what this whole thread has been about.
I have never ever ever ever, implied that she needs to learn more about sex to satisfy me. I have done nothing but ask her what I've done wrong and how I can improve, it's been her who's reactions are, "You didn't do anything wrong, it's me, I'm unsure of what's going on" which is I know, trying to make me feel better. I don't understand why you think I'm this huge inconsiderate douche bag. The entire reason I made this thread, was to figure out a way to make things better for her, while putting the least amount of pressure on her in the world. I am very fucking careful about what I say when I talk to her about this stuff because I want her to know exactly how much she means to me, not think that sex is something she needs to earn my affection with.
Considering how early on in your sexual relationship you are with this girl, I really think you should just relax and let things progress naturally.
This is funny because it pretty much confirms part of what Sarcastro said, while invalidating other parts. You weren't really "inconsiderate", but then again how considerate you are isn't the problem.
The fact that you are insecure is the problem.
Isn't it obvious she doesn't want to be asked about things, she wants YOU to take charge and figure things out? Why do you keep asking her "what you've done wrong?" It just seems like a terrible, terrible idea, and a great way to kill her attraction to you.
At the very least rephrase it to "what feels good" or whatever, is my advice.
I'm not looking for something that'll make her want to watch porn and do handstands while we do it this weekend, I'm just looking for advice on making talking about this easier, so that I don't end up in the cycle that Sarcastro mentioned of her using sex as a way to feel close to me. I want her to feel close to me, and want to have sex with me. Not make her have to feel like she needs to earn it (where I'm confidant she's not there now, but I've been in a relationship where that's become the norm before, and it took that girl and I a year to get out of that cycle, and even then, the abuse that we had both put towards each other due to that cycle is what ended up destroying our relationship)
...Huh, that's some pretty heady stuff. If you are actually concerned about negative emotional feedback loops, the best way to head those off is to not respond to negative stimuli, while exaggerating positive response to positive stimuli, I would think.
Basically, find ways to become emotionally close without sex, and use sex only to supplement them. Be more natural/casual and less analytical about the sex itself, and focus on the emotional portion of the relationship.
That might be more effective in trying to prevent a repeat of your previous dysfunctional relationships, where the sex was great but evidently the emotional intimacy was dependent on sex instead of being... consummated by it, so it speak.
No. No. Those were seperate relationships. I had an emotionally fucked relationship for a few years, but then I had the girlfriend with all the crazy awesome sex (all our emotional issues were outside the bedroom), and inbetween those two several mini-relationships that never got anywhere serious. The sex in the fucked up relationship was awful, because her views were entirely, "this is something I do to please the man I'm with." but by the end of it, we were having a decent good time physically, but by that time we had so much resentment towards each other it just ended horribly. The second serious girlfriend was 100% completely insane, and I knew this from the start of the relationship, but the sex was crazy awesome, cause she was crazy aggressive in letting me know what to do and when and where.
I'm just looking for some direction from [current girlfriend], and I'm trying to find a way to get her to be comfortable doing that. She keeps talking up wanting to sex me, but it just makes me feel super uncomfortable.
As far as doing other stuff than sex, I predominantly talk about the sex in this thread, because that's where I'm seeking advice, but a lot of the perception here is that's all we do. We actually rarely make time to do it, and that's my choice. Lately with all of this, I'd like to set aside more time, but we get to see each other so little with our hectic school/work/ect schedules (She's in her last year of highschool dance, and has a lot of shit to do for that, I'm in a band and with rehearsals, and meetings and shit like that, theres just too much going on) so I try to go out of my way that when the two of us see eachother, I don't avoid sex, but I try never to make it the basis of our time together. As those moments are important to me, and I don't want to make our relationship all about the sexcersize.
She, on the other hand, does not know what she likes or what she is confortable with yet. she said she masturbate regularly, and you interprete that as "allright, this will help for when we get hot sex". The way I see it, she probably see you as this kind of sex expert, that has sooo much ex, so much experience in life/sex. The couple of first time I slept with my boyfriend (who never had sex) he was really nervous that he was doing anything wrong because, well, he tought I was super experienced and didn't really talk about it. And at first I was all "I MUST make him feel confortable" and well, if you feel pressured to be confortable it does not work.
what I'm trying to say is, stop getting anxious over this, you are probably just freaking her out. She was a virgin, it takes time to get to not experienced/sexpert. the magic answer you are looking for is probably: stop thinking about it as a really important thing, let times do its work. what YOU have experienced before doesn't matter, you are with her now, stop comparing her to ex, or to analyse the way she should or should not act toward sex.
and, for the record, I don't think you're a sex obsessed douche who's trying to force his gf into liking sex. I think your concerns are totally legitimate, of course you want your partner to have orgasmic fun with you, sex that doesn't hurt, etc
Also, it's very suspect that you'd be giving her three or four orgasms but she still dislikes sex. She may be faking in order to keep you happy.
Anyway. For one thing, are you using lube? If not, sex may well be very painful for her; you're putting part of your body inside a very sensitive part of hers. The rule with lube is, use as much as you think you need to, and then double that. If sex hurts for her, it's no surprise that she's not interested in it. Has she talked to a gynecologist about sex hurting? She may have vaginismus, where her vaginal muscles contract during sex and make things very, very painful for her.
Have you discussed this whole thing? Not argued about it, discussed it? Asked her what she enjoys most, what you could do to make it better? Have you talked about things you could do to make you happier? For example, since her getting up immediately to wash up makes you feel sad and abandoned, possibly you could keep some baby wipes and a glass of water by the bed so she could clean up without leaving you alone.
There is another possibility, though, and you won't like this at all. It could be that she's simply not attracted to you anymore. Women have a lot of cultural pressure to put physical attraction very low on their priorities when choosing a partner; it's considered shallow to not want to be with someone because you're not sexually interested in them. If this is her first serious, sexual relationship, and judging by your ages I'd say that's likely, she may just not be feeling it anymore.
People in general, not just women, tend to hold onto their first serious relationship for a long time after they stop being happy in it, possibly out of a sense of "one true love" (which is bullshit, in my opinion; there are billions of people in the world and you can be happy with more than one of them), some sort of "we'll beat the odds" thing, whatever. However, first relationships usually fail, just like first drafts of papers are usually imperfect, first tries in a sport are usually not Olympic-caliber, etc.. You and she are going through a tremendous period of growing and changing, and you're both figuring out relationships in general and what you want out of them at the same time.
From what you've said, you're unhappy, she's unhappy, you two are arguing about sex, and the problems with sex are getting entwined with other problems. Yes, you love her, but being in love is not enough to keep a relationship going. Talk to her honestly about the problems you've been having, but if things don't improve, it's time to call it quits.
That said, I don't think it's anything you should feel is a personal attack. Like Trowilla said, it's likely you're just not sexually compatible, and you have to take that into consideration if you'd like to continue the relationship if, after talking about it, the situation doesn't change.
To MC Mystery: As said before, time is probably going to be the biggest factor. It took me a very long time, with my first boyfriend, to feel comfortable doing and talking about various acts/etc., and it definitely had to come in stages. Maybe start by asking her what she likes best about making out, and things she'd want to try? Maybe she saw the first Spiderman and wants to try kissing you upside down (I don't suggest doing this in the rain, garbed in spandex). Maybe she'd like it if you sucked on some ice first and then kissed her (and vise versa).
In addition, definitely present these questions along with other, similar questions: has she ever wanted to try salsa dancing? What's her favorite cake? Would she like a deep tissue massage from you? If she feels comfortable opening up to you about these things, you could work up to more intimate questions ("Do you want me to play with your nipples more?").
The most important thing is to make sure you are reacting in a non-judgmental manner. As soon as she sees a look of disgust (or even surprise, which might be hard to conceal) or disappointment, she's going to close herself off. You may learn some things you don't like (you said before that you find it really sexy when a woman takes charge; some women don't like taking charge!), and you might learn some things or find some outlets that you really do like.
The biggest thing here is to take it slowly but surely -- over time she may become more comfortable trying new things or she may find that there are some things she absolutely refuses to do (some women are absolutely against dirty talk. One women I've talked to has established that it's an absolute deal breaker if her partner goes down that path, and I think it's good for all women [and men, too!] to know what they are and are not comfortable with -- make sure, over time, your girlfriend knows that you're okay with her personal boundaries (and I'm sure you've got some of your own to establish).
I know she definatly climaxes, because she acts the same way as she does when she climaxes solo (bought her a vibrator, which she uses sometimes while im in the room studying) so her coming 3-4 times is not unusual. Although these are all with my mouth and hands btw.
Reading through the thread fully, the parallels between the OP and my situation are very similar. Although she was not a virgin when we started going out, she hadn't had much experience, and I was the first to make her reach climax. She even says and acts like the OP's lady, about "I dunno...i just like it" when questioned about what she likes or what she prefers.
We had a little chat that turned into an argument about our sexlife, but I would like to talk to her in a environment where we don't have sex and try again. We are both very argumentative people, both KNOWing that our argument is the correct and proper one, so I think I will have to use some massive self restraint and try to get her to voice her true thoughts.
She has never been to a gynecologist in her life, although i have suggested it as a part of regular health check-up. That turned nasty because she thought I was controlling her, as it is her body and she can do what she likes with it. (the same argument she uses when I mention her going on the pill, even though she is terrified of becoming pregnant)
Im just really scared that this could be something that could really end our relationship and I honestly think I could cope with that. She is just too important to me.
But at the same time... for a lot of people, sex is a really important aspect of a relationship, and there is nothing wrong with that. Sexual attraction and compatibility can mean just as much as emotional connection, and if it isn't there, the relationship will not work. There seems to be a sort of prevailing attitude in our society that healthy, loving sexual relationships are the exception rather than the norm; that when guys do find someone they connect with emotionally, well, they'll just need to suck it up and deal with the fact that their girlfriend doesn't want to put out, because hey, if you really love her, you should be above all that petty stuff, right?
Wrong. Sex isn't petty, it is a deep emotional and physical bond between two individuals. It is not wrong or bad or greedy to want it, and to want it to be good.
As I said, there are some people who can do without it. And there are some people who really do have hangups about it, and who can't make themselves enjoy it for whatever reason. You may think that trying to force your girlfriend into having sex with you more often isn't fair to her, and I'd agree... but depriving yourself isn't fair to you. Maybe she is a perfect match for you in every other way, but if you're not sexually compatible, all the emotion in the world doesn't mean a damned thing. And if that's the case, then you should not feel bad or guilty about breaking off the relationship - no moreso than you would for breaking off a relationship with someone who played emotional mind games, or who was too clingy, or who had nothing in common with you.
That doesn't mean your partner needs to enjoy or want sex as much as you do, of course. I'm not saying "puppies and blowjobs every morning before breakfast or GTFO." Sometimes, being compatible with someone might mean just having them help you get yourself off, if they're not in the mood themselves. Or having sex less often, but still making it meaningful and good for both parties. But I sweartofuckingJad, if my boyfriend ever told me that my orgasms were gross, I would be out of there. That is an incredibly hurtful thing to say, and I could not imagine why you would want to stay in a relationship like that if you have any interest whatsoever in sex.
Sex isn't juvenile. It isn't dirty, it isn't something only bad girls and horny boys do, you should not feel bad for wanting it. But at the same time, if it is important to you, and if you're just not compatible with whoever you're with, you are doing a disservice to both of you by staying in that relationship. She isn't going to suddenly wake up and say "Baby, do me doggystyle," and you're not suddenly going to stop wanting it. Move on, and find someone who can give you the best of both worlds.
I had a girl tell me this once (the girl who I mention earlier who presented me with all the crazy sex) the more we talked about it, she just decided she wasn't into men as it turned out, and was much more into, well, women, and their orgasms.
Kate of Lokys, thanks for posting a reply stating the sane reasoning that sex is very important in a relationship and understanding where I'm coming from. If it ends up that this isn't a thing that's going to change with time, I think I'd have to end this relationship, but I'd still love to be friends with her. The idea of that honestly really upsets me, as, well, I'm really quite fond of her, and I want to work on that level SO much.
So this thread is branching off into two different bits, but the OP takes precedent.
Firstly, don't fight it. Come as quickly as you can. There is a time and place for prolonged engagements, and this isn't it. It takes time to build a good machine-like foundation. Once you start working together better, then you might try going the distance. New lovers (though they are all different) need guidance and reassurance more than anything, and the friction involved with prolonging plays havoc with newly exposed flesh. These are tender body bits that have never been touched before, so lets not burn them or overwork them before the mind can adapt to their sensitivity.
Secondly, there's a difference between not knowing where to go and being unable to get there. If you were on a particularly winding little path, and got lost, what would you do? Go back to familiar territory and start out again, paying attention to landmarks and sights in case you get lost. Every time you lose your way, go back to what you know and start over. Bit by bit, you'll gain a sense of familiarity, and then you can travel anywhere you want.
Thirdly, and this is the tricky bit, just because you don't know where you're going doesn't mean you can't take control over how you get there. The process, small steps out, hitting a snag, returning, and starting again, etc, is something you can get down well - and that means that no matter who you're with, you always know what you're doing. For the most part, because you're the guy, this confidence will be expected of you. Insecurity is the edge of fear, and conquering fear together is a large part of any relationship. She's already afraid, you being afraid too is just going to make things worse. Be the rock, be the strong, steady hand, and let her know that you're both in it together. If you can't find your own confidence, fake it. The real stuff comes in time.
I don't think you're a bad guy actually; I don't believe in helping a-holes to get better in bed, as it is my own desire to see them be terrible and booted out of whomever's life all that much sooner. Not wanting to be inconsiderate is unfortunately no guarantee that you won't be anyway, but I do think your intentions are sound.
So to the nitty gritty details then, which is substantially harder. I don't know this girl, and it's difficult to give solid advice here because as I've said all girls are different. Here's how I've come to think about it:
Basically, the human body is split up into five different parts; legs, arms and torso. The head, it own unique little feature, is really part of the mind. When you kiss, its a transfer of emotional energy from one part to another, from mouth to mouth for example, is from one mind to another. Whispers in the ear, mind. Soft stroking across a cheek, mind. Looking into their eyes, mind.
When joshua1 mentions that his lover won't look him in the eyes when he comes, what he is really saying is that he is pained by the fact that she refuses to join her mind directly with his when he orgasms. There are many reasons for this, and not all of them are bad, but it's meaningful to him, because he needs that connection at that time, and it is being actively refused.
All people are different, but a good starting place is always the mind.
This is essentially what talking and making out is- building the emotional and mental connections. Because for the vast majority, any sexual energy produced starts in the mind first, and then is redirected out along the body. There are special places in everyone's body where their mental energy (or hormone release if you want to get all bio-tech about it) is transformed into a physical reaction. Some of these are very small, less than a few fingers wide, some of these are larger, about the size of full palm. Over time, you'll learn to spot them visually, but for beginners I would suggest looking for landmarks. These spots are almost always covered by a softer, smoother grade of skin. They are heated differently, because they need more blood than other parts, and these parts loved to be touched.
They can be anywhere, and in some way, they are all connected to each other. Before you get down to the sex, you need two or three of these on every major body part. Internally produced orgasms in women often require supplemental energy/sensation then can be produced merely by the walls of the vagina. If you are looking for this type of orgasm, you will need to support that energy with the other connected zones. You'll need to make sure that there is enough mental energy flowing out of the mind to slightly overstimulate them, and then you need to focus that energy into one tight little spot by using your own mind and your own handy little energy probe. Maybe it's a big probe, I don't know you either.
Some men/women don't need a lot of bells and whistles, because mentally, they are already there. Their mind is already 'in the mood', producing massive amounts of energy, lighting up those hotspots like a christmas tree. More experienced women already know what they like and how to get it, and anything flowing down familiar channels is put put to good orgasmic use with high efficiency. A little bit of a connection and some extra energy supplied by their lover is more than enough to fire off the rocket.
In masturbation, one is creating their own feedback loop. The nervous energy flows down to their tingly bits and just builds and builds until they come. In sex, the circuit is connected by the nervous system of the other person, and the two systems feedback on each other until release. New lovers have only the elemental circuitry we are all born with, and the challenge for women is to find enough energy to orgasm while the basic stimulated system, the vagina, doesn't produce enough. So the body heads back to the mind for a double helping, and pulls on emotional reserves in order to fulfill the body's desire.
So to plainspeak this part, if you didn't light up her body enough, you'll need to light up her mind. All kinds of ways to do this- kissing, nibbling the ears, whispering 'I love yous' or dirty thoughts, basically establishing more mental connection and engagement. Try to think of this as giving your energy to her. Your thoughts are energy, give them to her, the sensations you feel everywhere, focus them, and give them back. Feedback to her, through your motions, your body, and your mind. Focus on how she feels. Feel it in your mind, picture what she feels, how she feels, and feel those things with her. There is no such thing as what you feel and what she feels; it is just one thing, one experience, one unit, one body, one mind.
Nature will take care of itself in short order, and the feedback will be resolved through orgasm. Almost as soon as it happens, you'll start to become aware of your own self again.
As with most things, focus is incredibly important. Focus is what let your own nervous energy interact and affect hers, so get your head together before you play the game. Foreplay is more than just getting comfortable, it's a focus exercise, time to shut out everything else in the world except the other person. If you have other things on your mind, it wont be as good, the connections wont be as solid, and the energy just wont be there. Don't step up until your own thoughts are in order. By the time you get down to it, you should have a nice picture of what she is feeling and where built up in your mind. If your focus is there, her's will likely follow, it's just part of how people are wired.
It also takes time to build this sync up with new lovers. An evening together is about right, if its a good one. Eat at the same time, and the same kind of meal if you can. Keep your food chemicals equal. Don't drink (alcohol) if she doesn't, try to eat meat if she does etc, so your bodies will be going through the same highs, rushes and processes at the same time. Share something sweet about 20mins or so before (and during!) playtime. Sugar is a pretty noticeable effect, and feeling the same things at the same time provides subliminal cues and signals to each other, strengthening the effectiveness of communication. Don't rush things because you need to fit your action into a specific time slot, you'll just have a sub-par of a time. There is no specific hurry to get things to certain level in a set time- in a solid relationship there is always more time to explore and enjoy.
So, now to string it all together.
Find all the places she really, really likes to be touched. Engage these places in 'downward trails, starting with the mind. When you reach the end of the trail, go back up to engage the mind again. Say 'I love you,' then run kisses down to the hollow of her throat. Go back up and give a reason, or a kiss, then chase that reaction, that energy downwards, say by nibbling the side of her neck, and then a quick tonguing kiss between her breasts. Every time you go back up and come back down the trail gets longer and longer. Some spots get repeated constantly, others maybe just once in a while. Try to keep the arousal consistant, (with obvious highlights) and don't lose focus of the goal just because you've reached something naughty. Push past wanting. Push past desire. Invoke need.
As a side note, all roads lead to Rome. Rome exists in six places in the human body, one in each part. Neurologically, the genitals share sensation space with other extremities. Stimulation of these spots on the extremities in turn stimulates the genital areas, and the connections between these spots and those areas. The mouth is the sensual center for the mind, the forefinger and joining of the middle finger is the spot for each hand (think of the fingers as legs, because your brain does), the second toe and the soft tissue to either side for the feet, and the clitoris is for the torso. Every body has been unfolded and reflected in this way, and so the more advanced trails will jump body parts, but still keep to adjacent zones, due to this shared brain space. You'll need three roads on an average person, leading all the way there before you start going. On someone brand new to the experience, light them all up so that they can enjoy themselves naturally- their sensations will be strongest along the lines they feel most comfortable with and most attached to, so no matter where those bits are, they are warmed up and ready.
The most important thing, no matter how skilled you are, is the connection - the mental engagement. Keep engaging and re-engaging their mind to build up that all-important energy. If you feel them slipping away, becoming disconnected, stop with the motion (stay in them if you'd like), and reattach emotionally. The motion should be a highlight to the emotion. For example, a deep kiss has a certain rhythm and flow to it. The head tilts, the arms slide around, lips part, tongues touch, and then mouths press against each other, an urgency, a message is exchanged right at its peak. If you press in with everything- your hug becomes deeper, your body presses deeper, your thrust becomes deeper, and held - the message is stronger, the connection becomes deeper. The kiss becomes more, because there is more to it - but its foundation is a kiss, even though it may hold a sexual act as a part of it. Every act of lovemaking has a kind of rhythm and flow to it, and every person has their own rhythm they find most effective. Use the flow and motions of lovemaking to highlight the natural crest and wave of your feelings.
Sex can be a lot of things. Lovemaking is really just one, a method of communication. A way to share your life and feelings with another person. Everyone in love likes to be shown that the person they love loves them back. Make sure your message is genuine, loving, focused and consistent, and no matter what happens, no matter 'how good' you are at it, everyone will have a wonderful time.
Some people, usually through no fault of their own, have significant problems with sex. Sometimes, it's purely physical - their body just isn't familiar with the sensations of sexual pleasure, or maybe they're just too used to self-stimulation to adapt easily to the touch of another person. Sometimes, it's a personal belief in chastity that they've chosen for themselves - they just don't want to have sex until they're married. Sometimes - more often, I would argue - they've just had unhealthy attitudes towards sex imprinted on them by parents or peers: they've been told it's dirty or wrong, that it's a sin, et cetera. Quite often, these causes amplify each other. An example:
Sally grows up in a strictly religious household, in which the only mentions of sex are immediately followed by stern warnings about its evils. She comes to think of sex as an unpleasant experience, something to be endured only after marriage for the purpose of procreation. She goes to college, meets a nice guy, then one night he starts touching her gently and wow, that feels really great, and she starts to wonder if maybe she was wrong. A little while later she gives in and has sex, and it's awful. It's awkward, it hurts, maybe the nice guy really tried, maybe he just wanted to get his rocks off, but either way, she feels terrible about it. The experience just reinforces her earlier training: sex is bad, sex is wrong, she shouldn't even think about it, anyone who asks for it or expects it is no good. She gets her degree, makes some lifestyle changes, realizes that maybe her parents' religion isn't for her, and in a few years, she starts dating again. She finds someone she loves, and tries to have sex again... but by this point, the negative associations of sex have been so firmly drilled into her that she doesn't know how to respond to it physically. She can't enjoy it, she feels guilty for that, her boyfriend is miserable because he can tell something's wrong, but she can't really articulate what the problem is. He starts getting resentful, she starts getting defensive... they eventually break up.
Sometimes, it's possible for couples to work through sexual problems. (Of course it is, people do it all the time). If the problem is physical, all you need is time - there's a stereotype that women can't give good handjobs, and my boyfriend has spent 23 years training his body to respond to his own precise touch, but I've spent enough time learning what he likes to be able to stroke him to orgasm just as well as he can. If the problem is mental, you can sometimes work that out too: communication is key, as is reassurance. Getting your girlfriend to explore her sexuality individually can often really help - buy her a small vibrator, let her go to town on herself with you out of the room, get her to understand that there's nothing wrong with feeling good, then gradually introduce yourself into the equation (watching her use it on herself while telling her how sexy she is and how much you love her, then using it on her with her hand over yours for guidance, then getting her off entirely on your own with no input from her, then actual sex).
But if your girlfriend is wound up so tight about sex that she can't even talk about it... there's really no easy fix for that. Rewiring someone's entire philosophy towards sex takes a whole lot of time and effort, and often some professional counselling as well. At some point, you need to ask yourself if you have the desire or the right to change her into what you want her to be, or if you should leave her alone to figure things out for herself.
Think of it this way: let's pretend you met a woman you absolutely love, the sex is great, she's witty and cute and everything you've ever wanted, but through no fault of her own, she has severe abandonment issues. She's incredibly clingy, she constantly needs to know where you are and what you're doing, and it's driving you nuts. She refuses to talk about it, and she's not interested in therapy. Do you stick with her, knowing that it will make you miserable, in the hopes that you can gradually work with her to improve her attitude and confidence? Or do you accept that she might be beyond your help, and move on in time to spare both of you the heartache of a steadily deteriorating relationship?
People change, but you can't always change them yourself. If you're both young 20somethings with only a couple of relationships under your belt, maybe this isn't the best time to be investing yourself completely in the rehabilitation of someone who just might not be ready for the level of physical commitment you need.
If you think you're making some progress with her through discussion of the issue, and you want to try different physical things, Sarcastro's advice is just beautiful. But it sounds more serious than that to me, especially in the case of joshua1's "I can't look at you when you're orgasming because I think it's disgusting" girl.
joshua1's situation is different because there has already been a sex life there for some time. Habits have been formed. Rituals and expectations are already there. In many ways, the train has left the station, and setting up new rituals and expectations is going to require much more effort than it does if you get it right from the start. I would say in that case, the real problem is intimacy, and it's bleeding over into their sex life. There's a problem communicating, and josh is having issues inciting the desire he wants to - mostly because she is quiet about her buttons, maybe even being unaware of them herself. If she thinks sex is dirty, then she probably has her turn-ons buried too through association.
As encouragement, I'd just like to say that I have never, ever encountered a girl without a sex drive, and not one of them incapable of enjoying sex and being multi-orgasmic. There is always a way. There is always something, no matter how buried or twisted, no matter how deeply repressed, that opens the door to an amazing sexual experience. Indeed, the thicker the locks on the door, the greater the release when they are finally opened. It is always possible, though sometimes the correct approach can be extremely unexpected.
This girl, too, was into letting me touch her and everything, but it took her a while to want to initiate foreplay with me or anything. Just talk to her about it. Tell her what you want/like. We were both inexperienced, so communication was the only way we could make it enjoyable, consistently, for the both of us.
Don't listen to this at all. If you base a relationship on sex you don't really deserve one. I understand it becomes a part of a relationship after a while, but because she's inexperienced you dump her? No. thats wrong.
And as Trowizilla pointed out, joshua1's problem is much more than just "she's inexperienced, so I'm dumping her for an easy lay!" His girlfriend isn't communicating with him about something that's obviously really important to him, she isn't connecting with him emotionally about it, she isn't even trying to understand his perspective.
If he wanted breakfast blowjobs every morning, and she would only give them to him once a week, and he announced his intention to dump her because of that, then yeah, he would be placing too much emphasis on sex. But she won't even look him in the face when he reaches climax because she thinks it's gross. That's not inexperience, that's immaturity and a complete lack of regard for the feelings of someone she's supposed to be in a loving relationship with.
Oh, I got confused on the issue. I thought we were all talking about the OP... didn't realize a second issue had been brought up, I think I skimmed too quickly.
In between our brekaup, or whatever it needs to be called (which is irrelevant here), I was in a serious relationship with another guy I really like and that was the first time (and only one with him) I ever had sex- and it was pretty awful, for a lot of reasons. (Thankfully it's something funny now.)
But anyway, a while after that circumstances came up where I got back together with the current Boy, and he came to visit me on leave, and we had a lot of fun while he was here. But the first few times were akward for me; not in a painful horrible way, because I enjoyed all of the new sexual things, but I didn't really... well, do anything. I also didn't orgasm from straight "intercourse" the first few times, but I still -really- enjoyed it. I was very very hesitant to do new things or make a move or talk about things, though.
Once he came back from his desert duty and we got to see each other more regularly on the weekends, things started to get a lot more comfortable, but I think it probably took a month or loner before I actually started to initiate things or get more active.
I think it's a possibility that this might be something your girlfriend is going through as well. Sometimes it just take a while for people to get comfortable with things. And sometimes it takes a while before you start to figure out what can work best for you; masturbation doesn't always translate easily into sex with another person, especially when you might be feeling self-concious, nervous, or unsure of what you should be doing. Just because you can orgasm by yourself doesn't mean it's the same thing when you're "having sex".
As for her talking about it, it might just be another confort thing. I thought it was easy to talk to my Boy but it took a lot longer for me to bring up certain sex things, but that got a lot easier very quickly and now it's not very hard at all. It might just take some more time for her to get used to things and to get more adventerous and responsive, and the best advice I can give is to keep all that in mind and keep trying to talk about it; not being pushy, of course, but maybe bringing it up casually like you have been and seeing if she eventually opens up.
I'm going to assume if she's cuddling after and saying she wants to do it again, then she's probably not lying about it. It might just be her adjustment period to it all and it might take her some time to get confortable and enjoy it more fully.
A) Sex is important for most people in a relationship, and sexual incompatibility is absolutely a good reason to break things off. This whole "Everything else is more important than sex!" line is why so many people settle for shitty sex lives rather than looking for a partner that's compatible personality AND sexuality-wise.
Im not entirely sure about this one Trow. In the first point, many people do settle for poor sex lives because of other features in the relationship, emotional and financial stability, charm, charisma, an attractive partner, or maybe they feel as if (and maybe they are bang on in thinking that) there aren't that many options open to them. It would be nice if every couple and every relationship was perfect and healthy- it'd be nice everybody was always pleasant, super-attractive, good in bed and financially well off.
Occasionally comprimises must be made in some areas of ones life to ensure their success in other areas, because not everybody is well-rounded, and some flaws are glaring and tragic, only to be covered by other good points and strengths. Sad, unfortunate, but true.
In the second point, I disagree that she doesn't care about joshua1's feelings, only that she is uncomfortable with sexuality. This is going to generate her own feelings, some of which can't really be helped. She may care about him an awful lot, but when the lights go out, she is confronted by things that put those feelings into conflict- and so the disconnection is put into place to prevent those uncomfortable feelings from actively ruining the relationship, and they take on a more passive role. It's still destructive, couples can read between the lines and find the true meaning of what those passive actions say, but you can't say that the girl isn't trying or doesn't care, because for all you know she cares a whole bunch.
As an example, maybe she was brutally raped when she was nine, and has a huge grudge against sex, lust and her own sexual parts. Despite this she swallows back her feelings, because she cares about her boyfriend so much, she is willing to set those feelings aside so that there is at least some sexual release within the relationship. When veiwed in this context, her efforts in bed are virtually a triumph, and the effort itself highly laudable. I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but jumping straight to DTMFA ignores the possibility that other issues are in play.
The fact that she brings her rare instances of initiation up as a "I did this horrible thing for you, now you have to do what I say" thing is a very, very bad sign to me. That's not a sign that she's just uncomfortable with sexuality, that's a sign that she's willing to use his desire to have a healthy sex life with her against him. Not Good. If she has issues with her sexuality, and I'm betting she does, either she really, really needs to go into therapy and work those out, or she shouldn't be in a relationship with someone who wants a reasonable amount of sex. Like I said, she may not be a bad person, but she doesn't need to be in a relationship if she's utterly unwilling to try to make it work.
(Oh, by the way, I wasn't saying that bad sex should always lead to a breakup, but it's certainly a valid reason to break up with someone. There's a nasty cultural meme that caring about sex is shallow and the sign of a bad person. In reality, breaking up with someone because the sex is bad and it's making you unhappy is just as valid and not-shallow as breaking up because the conversation is bad and it makes you unhappy, or because you have nothing in common and are bored by their interests, or because you have a religious incompatibility, or they want a gazillion kids and you don't want any, etc.. Some people will decide to put up with this sort of thing for the sake of other factors, but some won't, and it's not a sin to break up.)