I Have A Dream For The PS3

h8b1llg8ts

"I have a dream ... " speech seemed fitting this week but I also leads me to a week long debate that I have had with some of my colleagues. To summarize I am an avid gamer of PS1 games along with some PS2 games. I've been holding off on the purchase of a PS3 due to the lack of support for the old Playstation library.

I already have to have my oXbox out along with my 360. And I'm trying to avoid the same scenario with my PS2 and future PS3. Yes, I know that I can go search for the 60 GB for the ultimate experience but, if I'm not mistaken, the PS3 new rumble feature will be lacking for all my old games correct? And the thought of finding an 80 GB and downloading all that emulated software for my 100+ library work for me. Hence, the reason why I have my oXbox still out and a brand new in box oXbox as back up.

My point is and my question to you is do you see Sony ever going back and releasing a system that will fully support their old catalog with a rumble controller included? Or is it just a dream from an out of date old school gamer?

Willeth

It's possible. AFAIK the reason they've been so ridiculous with the back compat is because it's more money than they're willing to spend. As the price of the components come down they may be willing to start shoving chips back in etc.

But don't hold your breath.

Evangir

2 things.

A) The 80 GB PS3's backwards compatability is far superior to the 360's backwards compatability. It's an absurd number like 99% of PS2 games work, and 100% PS1 games.

Rumble controller is out right away

Retarded_Turkey

Do the new Dualshock controllers do rumble for ps1/2 games too?

Evangir

Retarded_Turkey wrote: »

Do the new Dualshock controllers do rumble for ps1/2 games too?

According to the Wiki page, yes. Who knows if that's true.

Local H Jay

If it's really that important, why not buy a PS2 for $100 and the 40GB PS3?
The newer PS2 is so slim it could easily fit in even the most crowded cabinets. My friend keeps his slim PS2 atop his 360.

Gyral

Local H Jay wrote: »

If it's really that important, why not buy a PS2 for $100 and the 40GB PS3?
The newer PS2 is so slim it could easily fit in even the most crowded cabinets. My friend keeps his slim PS2 atop his 360.

For some people, the problem is less about size in a cabinet and more about powerplugs and inputs. Since I got my new TV, I don't have the same issues with being out of inputs, but I still have two powerstrips that are full.

Troy

RUmble does work for Ps2 games I know that. I have a japanese dualshock 3.

h8b1llg8ts

Evangir wrote: »

2 things.

A) The 80 GB PS3's backwards compatability is far superior to the 360's backwards compatability. It's an absurd number like 99% of PS2 games work, and 100% PS1 games.

Rumble controller is out right away

But if I have an 80 GB how much space will be left after I emulate all those games? Again, 100 - 150 games.

Rigor Mortis

h8b1llg8ts wrote: »

Evangir wrote: »

2 things.

A) The 80 GB PS3's backwards compatability is far superior to the 360's backwards compatability. It's an absurd number like 99% of PS2 games work, and 100% PS1 games.

Rumble controller is out right away

But if I have an 80 GB how much space will be left after I emulate all those games? Again, 100 - 150 games.

Wait, what? You play PS1/PS2 games from the disc, not the hard drive.

CarolinaBBQ

The PS3 is not 100% compatible with the PS1....unless you believe that having a high pitch squeal occurring "everytime a player fires a weapon" in Silent Hill is acceptable gameplay. And believe me....it doesn't go away until you reboot....it just sits there unplayable. No plans to fix it. At least for my 20gb.

The DS3 is so wonderful....I can't wait to see all the sixxaxis controllers just sitting there on the shelves unloved at a $5 clearance in the near future. It feels so strong...Shadow of the Colossus makes my hands numb. I missed it.

greeble

h8b1llg8ts wrote: »

Evangir wrote: »

2 things.

A) The 80 GB PS3's backwards compatability is far superior to the 360's backwards compatability. It's an absurd number like 99% of PS2 games work, and 100% PS1 games.

Rumble controller is out right away

But if I have an 80 GB how much space will be left after I emulate all those games? Again, 100 - 150 games.

I think you are very much confused about how the emulation works. By software emulation they mean part of the ps2 hardware is emulated (The Emotion Engine). The Graphics Synthesizer is still on board. That software is included as part of the system firmware. Emulating games doesn't take up any extra space except for the saves on the virtual "memory card" of which you can probably fit the whole ps2 library on a couple of Gigs. (at most)

Yes the rumble works. One thing you will want is the memory card -> ps3 adapter so you can transfer your saves onto your ps3. I believe it is $10 or so. Just buy an 80gig, and buy a DS3 since you will probably want to have a second controller. When you play with friends make them use the rumbleless controller.

h8b1llg8ts

So to recap. I can fulfill my dream of a fully functional backward compatable for both my PS1 and PS2 library(well at least 99.89%) with a 60 or 80 GB PS3 system and a purchase of the DS3 controller. And be able to transfer said saves with an adaptor too?

greeble

h8b1llg8ts wrote: »

So to recap. I can fulfill my dream of a fully functional backward compatable for both my PS1 and PS2 library(well at least 99.89%) with a 60 or 80 GB PS3 system and a purchase of the DS3 controller. And be able to transfer said saves with an adaptor too?

Yes though those percentages are a bit high. First of all you are going to have issue with ps2 games that have special controllers. (for example DDR and guitar hero don't work I'm told). The 20g and 60g ps3 have a very high percent rate since they have the full ps2 guts. The 80 giger does some of the stuff in software (emulated) so there are a some games with little glitches and a very few that are unplayable.

Use this link to check out your favorite games.
http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/CompatibleStatus

TheSonicRetard

To it's credit, though, the 80 gb PS3 has pretty great compatibility. Better than the 360 in my experience. MGS3, for example, is supposed to be unplayable, but i played through it in its entirety on my PS3 without a hitch.

cloudeagle

h8b1llg8ts wrote: »

So to recap. I can fulfill my dream of a fully functional backward compatable for both my PS1 and PS2 library(well at least 99.89%) with a 60 or 80 GB PS3 system and a purchase of the DS3 controller. And be able to transfer said saves with an adaptor too?

Woah there, hoss. The 80GB isn't 99.89 percent compatible. The actual figure is a little hard to compute, since a bunch of the games on Sony's list have some pretty big glitches. Only the 60GB and the nigh-mythical 20GB have full, hardware-based BC.

There's rumors that an 80GB bundle with MGS4 will have BC, but that's just a rumor at this point.

Seriously, you're better off just sticking a PS2 slim on top of your PS3.

urahonky

h8b1llg8ts, wait for the PS3 MGS4 bundle. As cloudeagle said, it's rumored to have the 80GB PS3 with BC AND it's going to be $399 (RUMOR right now, but I believe it to be true).

greeble

cloudeagle wrote: »

Seriously, you're better off just sticking a PS2 slim on top of your PS3.

Well ps3 has a rounded top so that isn't going to work, but you can stack your PS3 on top of your slim. And pull the slim out as needed. To be honest I think the 80G ps3 will play most* of his games just fine and will most likely make them look better due to the smoothing/upscaling. I would leave the ps2 in there just incase, if the game doen't run well on the ps3 then turn off the ps3 and plug the cables into the ps2. (PS2 and PS3 use the same multiout AV cable, so its easy to switch between them, just get the component ones if your TV supports it.)


* I have a 60G ps3 so I'm only basing this off what my friend told me. (He has the 80G) To be honest I've played very few ps2 games since I got my TRIPlE, but it is nice knowing I can if I want. (I gave my ps2 to my brother-in-law so he could play guitar hero)

cloudeagle

urahonky wrote: »

h8b1llg8ts, wait for the PS3 MGS4 bundle. As cloudeagle said, it's rumored to have the 80GB PS3 with BC AND it's going to be $399 (RUMOR right now, but I believe it to be true).

The bundle, memory and price I'd count on, but I'm still a little iffy on whether it'll have BC, considering Sony's all but disavowed it. But we'll see.

h8b1llg8ts

GH, I have on my 360 so I'm not worried there but I could reinstate my previous statement and also so 60gb or 20gb and it will still work correct?

I will also wait for that info on the MGS4 too, thanx.

Zombiemambo

Sony makes two wildly successful systems that make huge amounts of money, and in the third generation somebody said, "What if we make the complete opposite decisions?" and then they signed a contract that said no matter how it turned out they had to continue making opposite decisions until the day they die. Or Satan hires them.

greeble

urahonky wrote: »

h8b1llg8ts, wait for the PS3 MGS4 bundle. As cloudeagle said, it's rumored to have the 80GB PS3 with BC AND it's going to be $399 (RUMOR right now, but I believe it to be true).

I'm pretty sure its going to have the same Backwards compatibility as the current 80G. I doubt they will be adding back in the chips they took out of the 60. They just mentioned in an article that the low value of the dollar and strong Yen is hurting them and they are going to look to cut manufacturing costs. Adding the chips would increase costs, as well as increase board complexity. Its because of this same article that I doubt we'll see another price drop this soon. (At least in the US, you might see one in Europe where the Euro is strong)

I do think we'll see a drop but not till later this year around Christmas time. And even then I wouldn't be surprised if it was just $50. But its your call.

shutz

The big difference between the BC on the PS3 and what the 360 offered was that on the 360, they work at certifying that the games work above a certain level before letting you emulate them, whereas on the PS3, it just tries to emulate them as best it can and lets you deal with any glitches.

That's not to say that there's no glitches when you play oXbox games on the 360, just that you can have a higher confidence about being able to play the game to the end with only minor glitches or slowdowns than on the PS3.

urahonky

I just played through Fable on the 360, and it seems to have issues with it. It froze about 6 or 7 times on me, and there were a few minor graphical glitches. But if that's the worst thing that can happen with the 80GB PS3, then I'll be okay with it.

h8b1llg8ts

greeble wrote: »

urahonky wrote: »

h8b1llg8ts, wait for the PS3 MGS4 bundle. As cloudeagle said, it's rumored to have the 80GB PS3 with BC AND it's going to be $399 (RUMOR right now, but I believe it to be true).

I'm pretty sure its going to have the same Backwards compatibility as the current 80G. I doubt they will be adding back in the chips they took out of the 60. They just mentioned in an article that the low value of the dollar and strong Yen is hurting them and they are going to look to cut manufacturing costs. Adding the chips would increase costs, as well as increase board complexity. Its because of this same article that I doubt we'll see another price drop this soon. (At least in the US, you might see one in Europe where the Euro is strong)

I do think we'll see a drop but not till later this year around Christmas time. And even then I wouldn't be surprised if it was just $50. But its your call.

Price really isn't an option. I'm just looking for a smoother transition then what MS promised with the 360. But unlike the 360 I just couldn't wait but for the PS3 I can. But I have to admit it's getting harder and harder to do so.

So for those with the 20gb and 60gb how has your BC experiance been? Even with PS1 games?

MistaCreepy

My 60 gb hasnt had any problems with any games that Ive played in it... but then again I mostly play current gen games.

FanciestWalnut

I have to pay 55 dollars for the controller that should have came with the system in the first place?

h8b1llg8ts

I hate to bump this but now the wife has gotten on my ass about it.

All day yesterday and today I have recieved emails, texts, and phone calls in reguards to getting a BlueRay player NOW. Due to the fact that her favorite TV Show Firefly was announced on BlueRay. Well I explained to her that a PS3 will fit both of our needs and get ride of all those pesky wires because it is wireless.

With a credit card in hand, growing pressure from home, and a chance to get a PS3 in my hands tomorrow, I run into a new conundrum. With my major pursuit of a seemless backwards compatable experiance it seems that the 60 GB is the best fit for me. But I can either get a used 60 GB or a new 80 GB for the same price.

What would you do?

Spoit

Uh...No disrespect if you've already tracked down a store that for sure has it, but you're probably not going to find a new 80 gig anytime this side of the MGS4 bundle. That said, PS3s are generally pretty reliable, so used really isn't that much worse a choice. While I personally am too risk averse to get a $500 piece of hardware without an extended warranty (yes, I know they're a bad deal), if you're willing to risk it, I'd say to go for the used 60

urahonky

Okay... So her favorite show was just announced on BluRay. It'll be like 8 months till it actually shows up.

Khavall

Willeth wrote: »

It's possible. AFAIK the reason they've been so ridiculous with the back compat is because it's more money than they're willing to spend. As the price of the components come down they may be willing to start shoving chips back in etc.

But don't hold your breath.

One thing here, there's a lot of speculation over why they were removed. The price of the chips is nowhere near high enough to justify taking it out of a model with a $100 price cut that is also accompanied by a paltry 40GB HDD change with an HDD that can be swapped out anyways.

And Sony specifically said that they wanted to promote PS3 games for the PS3 owners, and that's why they removed the backwards compatibility. Basically removing it did three things:

Encouraged the sale of PS3 games over cheaper PS2 games
Encouraged the sale of the 80GB, more expensive system, due to it's backwards compatibility capabilities
Saved maybe $30 or so(That's about the average guess for the GS+EE cost)

I wouldn't say "It's just to save costs! It'll be back in no time!" The smart money says that a: The more expensive models will be the one with BC, and b: Sony will be trying to move away form BC in any new SKUs.

urahonky

Khavall wrote: »

Willeth wrote: »

It's possible. AFAIK the reason they've been so ridiculous with the back compat is because it's more money than they're willing to spend. As the price of the components come down they may be willing to start shoving chips back in etc.

But don't hold your breath.

One thing here, there's a lot of speculation over why they were removed. The price of the chips is nowhere near high enough to justify taking it out of a model with a $100 price cut that is also accompanied by a paltry 40GB HDD change with an HDD that can be swapped out anyways.

And Sony specifically said that they wanted to promote PS3 games for the PS3 owners, and that's why they removed the backwards compatibility. Basically removing it did three things:

Encouraged the sale of PS3 games over cheaper PS2 games
Encouraged the sale of the 80GB, more expensive system, due to it's backwards compatibility capabilities
Saved maybe $30 or so(That's about the average guess for the GS+EE cost)

I wouldn't say "It's just to save costs! It'll be back in no time!" The smart money says that a: The more expensive models will be the one with BC, and b: Sony will be trying to move away form BC in any new SKUs.

Which is one thing that makes my blood boil when someone mentions the word PS3 to me.

h8b1llg8ts

urahonky wrote: »

Okay... So her favorite show was just announced on BluRay. It'll be like 8 months till it actually shows up.

SSSSSSHHHHHhhhhhh!!!! She doesn't know that. Come on man help a brother out ...

Tylerbroor

Couple n00b BC questions-

Does it hurt my PS2/3 to try and run my shitty, immensely scratched copy of Saga Frontier?

The PS3 can run normal DVD's no problem, right?

BC just stops working after a number of years on PS2's? Recently happened to mine, expected to happen to PS3's?

greeble

Khavall wrote: »

One thing here, there's a lot of speculation over why they were removed. The price of the chips is nowhere near high enough to justify taking it out of a model with a $100 price cut that is also accompanied by a paltry 40GB HDD change with an HDD that can be swapped out anyways.

And Sony specifically said that they wanted to promote PS3 games for the PS3 owners, and that's why they removed the backwards compatibility. Basically removing it did three things:

While this (encourage ps3 game sales) may be part of the reason it certainly isn't the only reason.
Its no secret that SONY likes to do continual hardware revisions over the life of the console. I think the PS1 and PS2 each had between 9-15. Removing old legacy chips doesn't just save you the cost of the chips it also reduces the amount of traces, power and possibly layers needed on the board. This allows you greater freedom in redesigns and also has hidden cost benefits down the line. You'll also notice that the newer ps3 don't support SACDs (super audio cds). Since this is a SONY standard they obviously dropped it to cut costs as well. While individually the ps2 chips, flash readers, usb ports, SACD support seem like small potatos cost wise, this adds up quickly when you are talking about millions of units sold.

urahonky

h8b1llg8ts wrote: »

urahonky wrote: »

Okay... So her favorite show was just announced on BluRay. It'll be like 8 months till it actually shows up.

SSSSSSHHHHHhhhhhh!!!! She doesn't know that. Come on man help a brother out ...

I was trying to save you money and give you the opportunity to get the MGS4 bundle. :P

ginguskahn

I was under the (possibly misguided) impression that UK PS3's at least (not the 40gb model, the other one we got here, had BC that was all software, and had no extra chips, but wasn't as complete as the BC in the US 80gb Models, is that true?

Also if that is the case, would it be theoretically possible for Sony to add BC to any PS3 via firmware update or some such in the future? E.g downloading a patch for each game ala the 360?

bsjezz

ginguskahn wrote: »

I was under the (possibly misguided) impression that UK PS3's at least (not the 40gb model, the other one we got here, had BC that was all software, and had no extra chips, but wasn't as complete as the BC in the US 80gb Models, is that true?

Also if that is the case, would it be theoretically possible for Sony to add BC to any PS3 via firmware update or some such in the future? E.g downloading a patch for each game ala the 360?

us 80gb is the same bc as pal 60gb. if there's any difference it's in the fact that NTSC versions of games are more frequently updated to work with the ps3's emulation - at least according to that us compatibility guide. it's impossible for sony to add in that same backwards compatibility, because the current software-bc models have an extra chip called the 'graphcs synthesizer' that the 40gb models don't

i guess it's possible they could cook up a third emulation mode with no chips at all and distribute it via a firmware update

ginguskahn

bsjezz wrote: »

ginguskahn wrote: »

I was under the (possibly misguided) impression that UK PS3's at least (not the 40gb model, the other one we got here, had BC that was all software, and had no extra chips, but wasn't as complete as the BC in the US 80gb Models, is that true?

Also if that is the case, would it be theoretically possible for Sony to add BC to any PS3 via firmware update or some such in the future? E.g downloading a patch for each game ala the 360?

us 80gb is the same bc as pal 60gb. if there's any difference it's in the fact that NTSC versions of games are more frequently updated to work with the ps3's emulation - at least according to that us compatibility guide. it's impossible for sony to add in that same backwards compatibility, because the current software-bc models have an extra chip called the 'graphcs synthesizer' that the 40gb models don't

i guess it's possible they could cook up a third emulation mode with no chips at all and distribute it via a firmware update

Thanks for clearing that up for me

Dirty

I would take the chance and go for the 60GB unit. The PS3 is a pretty reliable piece of hardware. And if somebody is willing to unload it, they probably weren't playing it that much to begin with, so its not like you're gonna get a system that's already been used for hundreds of hours.

Aside from a few random issues (like the Silent Hill thing, or not being able to play Guitar Hero), its like having 3 complete consoles in one convenient box.

Unco-ordinated

bsjezz wrote: »

ginguskahn wrote: »

I was under the (possibly misguided) impression that UK PS3's at least (not the 40gb model, the other one we got here, had BC that was all software, and had no extra chips, but wasn't as complete as the BC in the US 80gb Models, is that true?

Also if that is the case, would it be theoretically possible for Sony to add BC to any PS3 via firmware update or some such in the future? E.g downloading a patch for each game ala the 360?

us 80gb is the same bc as pal 60gb. if there's any difference it's in the fact that NTSC versions of games are more frequently updated to work with the ps3's emulation - at least according to that us compatibility guide. it's impossible for sony to add in that same backwards compatibility, because the current software-bc models have an extra chip called the 'graphcs synthesizer' that the 40gb models don't

i guess it's possible they could cook up a third emulation mode with no chips at all and distribute it via a firmware update

The PAL BC is updated as well, SCEE are just incompetant buffoons and don't update their website.

Oh and the MGS4 80GB PS3 DOES have BC, it's not a rumour at all, Sony confirmed it way back when they first announced the thing.