[WoW] Death Knights Hoo!: Druids don't need shields to tank, and neither do we!

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  • EriEri Registered User
    edited May 2008
    I could dig a warden, but it would need something. I'd picture another warrior type: high armor, dps...traps?

    edit: blink, stealth, backstab, lol?

    Eri on
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  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Arch-druid implies that it would be better than a normal druid. Making a class more powerful than a normal druid isn't possible, so its not a good idea.

    Warden could be done though.

    DisruptorX2 on
    1208768734831.jpg
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Making a class more powerful than a normal druid isn't possible.

    :lol:

    :^:

    Wavechaser on
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  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Arch-druid implies that it would be better than a normal druid. Making a class more powerful than a normal druid isn't possible, so its not a good idea.

    Warden could be done though.

    Broken Record gooo!

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Add me to the "arch-druid"would be redundant to the game" list. I could see it as an epic quest chain starting at level 55 all the way to 80 or 90. You do the questline, get a new title exclusive to that class, and an epic ability or two. No need to generate a brand new class for it. Save that for the Brewmaster. :)

    Undead Scottsman on
  • TehChowdTehChowd Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I don't think archdruid is too likely as a new class. Maybe as a prestige class for 80+ druids, but not as a new one. Right now I think all the classes have a very distinct feel, both lore and mechanic wise, and I don't think Blizzard is going to double-dip into the druid flavor unless they absolutely have to. Eri's idea of a brewmaster is a pretty good one; I've been thinking how Blizzard could maybe do an item consumption-based class as the next one.

    What I meant more by my question is where can Blizzard go mechanically from here, given that they've kind of covered all there mechanic bases with the addition of the death knight. I mean, by my feeble thinking anyway, we have:

    The Tank classes
    Warrior: Core tanking class
    Paladin: Tank/healer hybrid
    Death Knight: Tank/caster dps hybrid
    Druid: Total Hybrid

    DPS Classes
    Rogue: Core melee DPS
    Mage: Core caster dps
    Hunter: Range dps, mostly physical
    Warlock: Range dps, mostly caster
    Shaman: Rogue/mage/priest hybrid
    Death Knight: Tank/caster dps hybrid
    Druid: Total Hybrid

    Healing Classes:
    Priest: Core healing class
    Shaman: Dps/priest hybrid
    Paladin: Tank/healer hybrid
    Druid: total hybrid

    I realize that this little chart is an oversimplification, and there's more to each class than what's here, but I hope you all can see what I'm getting at. With all the core and hybrids covered, what is left for Blizzard to base a class around? The only things I can think of are:

    -Another tanking class, but since the Death Knight seems to be a Warlock/Warrior hybrid, maybe they could do a Warrior/Mage Hybrid? You know, no pets and more burst-y spells?

    -A petless ranged class that is more physical-damage based. I guess the Warden could be something like this?

    -A pet/healer class combo I supose is possible too. Kind of like a warlock, except the pet is main dps, and the player uses mostly healing and utility spells.

    TehChowd on
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I'd personally love Runemaster as a hero class but in my imagination it ends up usurping the Shaman's non-healing roles so that's a no go.

    Opty on
  • NerdgasmicNerdgasmic __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    If they do add in some sort of "prestige class" feature in later updates, that'd really clear out alot of the less solely viable potential hero classes. There could be a lot that are essentially the evolution of a particular spec or specs. I.E. A Beastmastery Specced hunter could, well... become a beastmaster. It'd be pretty sweet.

    Nerdgasmic on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Opty wrote: »
    I'd personally love Runemaster as a hero class but in my imagination it ends up usurping the Shaman's non-healing roles so that's a no go.

    Do runemasters in the pen and paper RPGs explicitly have healing abilities? I think a meleeing runemaster, who can't heal, can't tank, but has some good buffs could work. Also, a real debuffing class would be nice, warlocks are partial debuffers at best.

    Septus on
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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    What I was thinking was basically a cloth-wearing monk-type class that acts like Enhancement shammies but with a rune bar instead of mana. Runemasters are supposed to be purely melee dps, so no healing or tanking.

    Opty on
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    TehChowd wrote: »
    snip.

    Warriors are a tank/dps hybrid
    Priests are a healer/dps hybrid

    There are no pure tank or healer classes, only pure dps classes.

    DisruptorX2 on
    1208768734831.jpg
  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    We currently don't plan to add additional character slots. Right now if you are maxed out and want to create another character on that realm, deleting one is an option, so is transferring it to another realm. If you are interested in the Deathknight you can also create it on a separate realm to try it before making any big changes to the realm that is full.
    MOTHERFUCKERS!

    -SPI- on
  • Soviet WaffleSoviet Waffle Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Retadins weren't listed
    Or SPriests

    Soviet Waffle on
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  • EriEri Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Dude, Chowd, I totally made did the same categorizing yesterday thinking about the classes, but visually with ven diagrams.

    Eri on
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  • willmannyeatthatwillmannyeatthat Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    So some stuff was leaked about the alpha and there are some screens and spell descriptions. Is it ok within the rules of the forum to post them here?

    willmannyeatthat on
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  • EriEri Registered User
    edited May 2008
    I won't say no

    Eri on
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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2008
    PM them to me and I'll make the call.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    PM them to me and I'll make the call.

    Lies! You just want to hoard them for yourself!

    Undead Scottsman on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    -SPI- wrote: »
    We currently don't plan to add additional character slots. Right now if you are maxed out and want to create another character on that realm, deleting one is an option, so is transferring it to another realm. If you are interested in the Deathknight you can also create it on a separate realm to try it before making any big changes to the realm that is full.
    MOTHERFUCKERS!

    Alas, poor Belf rogue, I barely knew ye.

    *delete*

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • willmannyeatthatwillmannyeatthat Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    PM them to me and I'll make the call.

    Lies! You just want to hoard them for yourself!

    Well I PMed it to him so we will wait.

    So, do you guys think that all deathknights, including horde and alliance, are going to start in the same area? It would be funny to see trolls and gnomes working together on a quest. Also I hope that the new dances that you can purchase are early enough in the game because seriously, female dwarves dance blows donkeys.

    willmannyeatthat on
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  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Forar wrote: »
    -SPI- wrote: »
    We currently don't plan to add additional character slots. Right now if you are maxed out and want to create another character on that realm, deleting one is an option, so is transferring it to another realm. If you are interested in the Deathknight you can also create it on a separate realm to try it before making any big changes to the realm that is full.
    MOTHERFUCKERS!

    Alas, poor Belf rogue, I barely knew ye.

    *delete*
    I hope their thoughts change, I figure this is just the current official line and it's something they'll probably look into. Because I'll be damned if I'm gonna delete a character. I like all my alts and I spent far too much time and gold setting up and meticulously organising that bank alt dammit!

    -SPI- on
  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    TehChowd wrote: »
    I realize that this little chart is an oversimplification, and there's more to each class than what's here, but I hope you all can see what I'm getting at. With all the core and hybrids covered, what is left for Blizzard to base a class around? The only things I can think of are:

    -Another tanking class, but since the Death Knight seems to be a Warlock/Warrior hybrid, maybe they could do a Warrior/Mage Hybrid? You know, no pets and more burst-y spells?

    -A petless ranged class that is more physical-damage based. I guess the Warden could be something like this?

    -A pet/healer class combo I supose is possible too. Kind of like a warlock, except the pet is main dps, and the player uses mostly healing and utility spells.

    There are so many ways they could go, of course there'd have to be a lot of rebalancing, but WoW focuses pretty hard on PVE class balance for their smaller raid sizes (10 and 25 mans) and their twitch pvp, so they really only have the sort of holy trinity of classes, dps, heal, and tankage, and hybrids of those three.

    There aren't any true utility classes whose main abilities focus around crowd control (this might not fit well considering CC usually has no effect on raid bosses in these kinds of games, and twitch pvp would make them overpowered), non-damage based debuffing, focused buffing classes, etc.

    One thing I always wanted, was a melee style warlock class. Meaning they are a cloth based melee class. Their strength lies in debuffing the enemy and stealing their power, etc, to the point where they offset their cloth disadvantage.

    There could also be ability stealing classes, a class who can temporarily use/steal the abilities of the enemies they are fighting. I also like the idea of a class who simply makes those around them better, without directly healing them. So a class who can speed up their allies attacks/casting time, remove debuffs, increase run speed, teleport groups of friends across large distances, etc.

    What would also be cool would be a warlock type class who has almost no magic or melee damage at all, and focuses exclusively on calling on the spirits of the surrounding area to fight for them and buff their allies, and curse their enemies.

    I think it's all a pipe dream though. The reason we don't see any classes who really fall outside of the tank/dps/heal trinity is because it could break the game or take extensive rebalancing, and right now WoW is making them hulk sized fistfulls of cash, so why tamper with a working formula?

    Dissociater on
  • OatsOats Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    There could also be ability stealing classes, a class who can temporarily use/steal the abilities of the enemies they are fighting.

    Level 70 Malacrass LFG for any Heroic.

    Oats on
  • bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    So I wouldn't really call any of that WotLK stuff a leak apparently it was just up on Blizzard's site unprotected if you knew the URL then people just did what they normally do and data mined it as with every patch, everything looked really awesome.

    bloodyroarxx on
    Yeah man, I tell ya what, man, that dang ol' internet, man, you just go in on there and point and click, talk about w-w-dot-w-com, mean you got the naked chicks on there, man, just go click, click, click, click, click, it's real easy, man.
  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    So I wouldn't really call any of that WotLK stuff a leak apparently it was just up on Blizzard's site unprotected if you knew the URL then people just did what they normally do and data mined it as with every patch, everything looked really awesome.
    It all looks so good.

    So good!

    Halfmex on
  • willmannyeatthatwillmannyeatthat Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Halfmex wrote: »
    So I wouldn't really call any of that WotLK stuff a leak apparently it was just up on Blizzard's site unprotected if you knew the URL then people just did what they normally do and data mined it as with every patch, everything looked really awesome.
    It all looks so good.

    So good!

    Well from what I have, the leak is actually from a person who is making a collection of info about the game and taking screen caps. For example:
    testzq9.jpg

    willmannyeatthat on
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  • bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Halfmex wrote: »
    So I wouldn't really call any of that WotLK stuff a leak apparently it was just up on Blizzard's site unprotected if you knew the URL then people just did what they normally do and data mined it as with every patch, everything looked really awesome.
    It all looks so good.

    So good!

    Well from what I have, the leak is actually from a person who is making a collection of info about the game and taking screen caps. For example:
    testzq9.jpg

    Well aside from the select screen all the other screens are from an MPQ editor/viewer. Id look myself but I'm not making another install of WoW just to look at an alpha.

    bloodyroarxx on
    Yeah man, I tell ya what, man, that dang ol' internet, man, you just go in on there and point and click, talk about w-w-dot-w-com, mean you got the naked chicks on there, man, just go click, click, click, click, click, it's real easy, man.
  • willmannyeatthatwillmannyeatthat Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Halfmex wrote: »
    So I wouldn't really call any of that WotLK stuff a leak apparently it was just up on Blizzard's site unprotected if you knew the URL then people just did what they normally do and data mined it as with every patch, everything looked really awesome.
    It all looks so good.

    So good!

    Well from what I have, the leak is actually from a person who is making a collection of info about the game and taking screen caps. For example:
    testzq9.jpg

    Well aside from the select screen all the other screens are from an MPQ editor/viewer. Id look myself but I'm not making another install of WoW just to look at an alpha.

    Well some other people have already done the work for us so we can show it to the awesome people here in PA

    Arthas:
    arthasxi2.png

    As with all leaks, take it with a grain of salt. This is alpha so things are subject to change:
    Deathknight spells:

    * Army of the Dead - Summons an entire legion of your best Ghouls to fight by your side.
    * Death and Decay - ${$m1+$AP*0.039} shadow damage inflicted every $t1 sec to all targets in the effected area for $d. Has a chance to cause affected targets to cower in fear.
    * Chromatic Rune Mastery - Whenever a Blood, Frost or Unholy Rune activates, it has a 6% chance of converting into a Chromatic Rune. This Rune counts as a Blood, Frost or Unholy Rune. Lasts 10 sec.
    * Degeneration (Rank 3, Level 76) - Instantly attack the target, dealing 60% weapon damage and inflicting a disease dealing ${$m2*7} over 15 sec. This disease will corrupt an existing heal over time spell, removing it and dramatically increasing the damage dealt. While afflicted by this disease, other heal over time effects on the target will have no effect.
    * Dancing Runeblade - Summons a second Runeblade that fights on its own for 1 sec per 10 Runic Power, doing the same strikes that you do.
    * Hungering Cold - A wave of cold leeches all heat from the earth, freezing all enemies in the cone-shaped area, and causing 10 damage per Runic Power. The frozen terrain persists for 1 sec per 10 Runic Power and will freeze enemies that attempt to cross it.
    * Unholy Blight - A creeping swarm of unholy insects surrounds the caster for a 10 yard radius. All enemies caught in the swarm take 120 damage and are plagued with a disease that can stack up to 3 times. Lasts for 1 sec per 10 Runic Power.
    * Corpse Explosion - "Target a corpse, causing it to explode for 12 damage per 10 Runic Power to all enemies within 10 yards."
    * Mark of Blood (spell or talent?) - "Place a Mark of Blood on an enemy or ally. Whenever the marked target is healed, all party members receive a fraction of that healing. If a marked target that grants experience or honor is killed, all party members are healed for 10% of their total health. Each person can be healed for a maximum of 3000 per Mark."

    Deathknight talents:

    * Black Ice - Increases your Frost and Unholy spell damage by 1/2/3/4/5%.
    * Dirge - Whenever you kill a diseased target that yields experience or honor you have a 1/2/3/4/5% chance of the corpse riding as a free Ghoul. You can have a maximum of 2 Ghouls at one time.
    * Spell Deflection - Reduces all spell damage taken by 3/6/9/12/15% for 10 sec following a successful parry.
    * Bladed Armor - You gain 4/8/12/16/20 attack power for every 1000 points of your armor value.
    * Butcher - Whenever you kill an enemy that grants experience or honor, you generate Runic Power. In addition, Runic Power takes longer to decay outside of combat.
    * Bone Armor (Rank 1) - "The caster is surrounded by 4 whirling bones. Each bone reduces the damage from the next spell or melee attack by 40% but is then consumed. Lasts 5 min." [Power type: 5, power cost: 25, cooldown: 30 sec]
    * Chromatic Rune Mastery - "Whenever a Blood, Frost or Unholy Rune activates, it has a 2/4/6% chance of converting into a Chromatic Rune. This Rune counts as a Blood, Frost or Unholy Rune. Lasts 10 sec."
    * Rage of Rivendare - You do 2/4/6/8/10% additional weapon damage to diseased targets.
    * Tundra Stalker - "You deal 2/4/6/8/10% more melee damage to targets under the effects of Icy Touch, Chains of Ice, Howling Blast or Hungering Cold."
    * Deathchill (Rank 1, Level 56) - "Launches an Icy Touch at every enemy within 40 yards, dealing 4 damage per Runic Power to each target and causing a high amount of threat." [0 power cost, cooldown: 60 sec]
    * Wandering Plague - "When the diseases you inflicted upon an enemy target cause damage, there is a 5/10/15% chance the disease will instead damage all enemies within 8 yards. This damage will not cancel spells normally cancelled when targets take damage."
    * Improved Corpse Explosion - "While Corpse Explosion is active, corpses have a 10/15/20/25/30% chance to explode for increased damage."
    * Crypt Fever - "Diseases caused by you or your Ghouls also reduce an enemy's attributes by 5/10/15% per disease."
    * Ravenous Dead - "Increases the Strength of you and your ghouls by 1/2/3/4/5% and reduces the cooldown on Raise Dead by 30 sec."
    * Pestilence - "When an enemy that grants experience or honor dies while suffering from one of your diseases, its corpse has a 10/20/30% chance of producing 1/1-3/3-5 Blood Worms. Blood Worms attack your enemies, healing you for the amount of damage they deal for 15 sec or until killed."
    * Sudden Doom - "Your Blood Strikes have a 4/8/12/16/20% chance to make your next Death Coil consume no Runic Power if cast within 8 sec."
    * Scent of Blood - "After being struck by a ranged or melee critical hit, you gain the Scent of Blood effect, causing your melee hits to steal life from the enemy for the next 6 sec."

    willmannyeatthat on
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  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    So much HP leeching. It's ridiculous. I love it.

    lionheart_m on
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  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I don't really get the whole runic power system. Are there any details on it? Reading some of those spell descriptions makes it sound a lot like rage (decaying out of combat).

    Dissociater on
  • kaleeditykaleedity Sometimes science is more art than science Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    The idea is that you have both runes that function like energy (periodic chunks gained based on skills or time) and runic power that functions just like rage. Many skills use up 100% of your current runic power, their effect being determined by how much power you had.

    That's as detailed as I can get right now :(

    kaleedity on
  • The Deranged HermitThe Deranged Hermit Inside the walls Merry Old EnglandRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Death Knights are sounding more and more like Necromancers from Guild Wars, several of the above spells are nigh on clones of Necro spells. This is by no means a bad thing. I loved my Necro, the swathes of disposable minions, the cursing and diseasing of enemies, the life draining, and of course few things beat sending a foes one time allies, now turned slavering ghouls, to gnaw on their flesh whilst you chuckle at their misfortune.

    Plus: Plate!

    The Deranged Hermit on
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  • TehChowdTehChowd Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I hope they don't include
    corpse explosion. It was a cool mechanic in D2 and all, but now it just seems kind of like a tired re-hash (at least to me and my snootiness anyway). Same with bone armor kind of.

    TehChowd on
  • kaleeditykaleedity Sometimes science is more art than science Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    TehChowd wrote: »
    I hope they don't include
    corpse explosion. It was a cool mechanic in D2 and all, but now it just seems kind of like a tired re-hash (at least to me and my snootiness anyway). Same with bone armor kind of.
    looks like it's their 21 point unholy talent. Also improved corpse explosion 0/2, causes more damage and diseases affected targets. Don't forget bone armor, the 31 point unholy talent. This one works more like lightning shield, though, and reduces damage taken for each charge expended, 4 charges.

    why are we spoilering again?

    kaleedity on
  • -Phil--Phil- Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    So... who else here is going to make a Gnome Death Knight?

    /raises hand :D

    -Phil- on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TheEmergedTheEmerged Registered User
    edited May 2008
    If I make one (and that is an if), it'll be gnome. "Gnomercy" is taken on my server, and "Gnomeaning" is just too emo for me. I'm still trying to work on a good pun :P

    TheEmerged on
    Sometimes, the knights are the monsters
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I am totally digging Death Knights, but some of their abilities(same for other classes, really) seem ridiculously powerful. A potential 45%(or more?) reduction in attributes on your opponent on demand?

    I think a lot of these will be toned down, but I do love the lifestealing and magic damage reduction mechanics.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Yeah, I was promising myself I'd stick with my Warrior through 80 and have him as my main, but god damn those Deathknight abilities look fucking awesome.

    Wavechaser on
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  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    My DK will be named Spooge.

    I've been hoping they would at some point introduce Necromancers into the game, guess this is it.

    Beyond Normal on
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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Halfmex wrote: »
    So I wouldn't really call any of that WotLK stuff a leak apparently it was just up on Blizzard's site unprotected if you knew the URL then people just did what they normally do and data mined it as with every patch, everything looked really awesome.
    It all looks so good.

    So good!

    Well from what I have, the leak is actually from a person who is making a collection of info about the game and taking screen caps. For example:
    * Corpse Explosion - "Target a corpse, causing it to explode for 12 damage per 10 Runic Power to all enemies within 10 yards."

    Well, hello there old friend!

    Undead Scottsman on
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