Why Marvel's "Secret Wars" was better than "Civil War"

CliffjumperCliffjumper Registered User regular
edited April 2008 in Graphic Violence
http://www.comicmix.com/news/2008/04/09/comicmix-six-why-marvels-secret-wars-was-better-than-civil-war/

6. REMEMBERING THE LESSONS 'SESAME STREET' TAUGHT THEM: In Civil War, heroes who fought alongside each other for years decide that the best way to debate the merits of a new law is to spy on one another and brawl at each and every opportunity. In Secret Wars, heroes who don't necessarily trust each other decide that, despite their differences, teamwork and cooperation will improve their situation.

Sure, Spider-Man had a skirmish with the X-Men and the Hulk was shouting at everyone, but they still came together in the end. Wolverine and Captain America shared a heart-to-heart, and the heroes even accepted Magneto's help, knowing that the greater good was more important than issues of mistrust.

5. FEMALES, FRONT AND CENTER: In Civil War, female characters like Storm were content to let Black Panther and other male superheroes get their hands dirty and have the spotlight. In Secret Wars, female X-Men team member Storm doesn't back off from an opponent in order to let a man handle it for her. Instead, she chooses to tell off Prof. Charles Xavier and show everyone why she's a force to be reckoned with.

4. THE TALE OF THE TRASH-TALK TAPE: In Civil War, a silent, somber cyborg-clone of Thor goes around killing heroes until he's eventually stopped by Hercules. (Imagine the villainous machine from Terminator without all of the snappy dialogue.) In Secret Wars, the real Thor takes down several supervillains at once while proclaiming, "Thy touch OFFENDS me!"

It takes a real man's man to shout a line like that during a life-and-death battle and not come out looking like a bit of a priss.

3. FEELING HOT, HOT, HOT: In Civil War, the Human Torch's biggest moments involved being beaten into a coma by civilians and dying his hair. In Secret Wars, the Human Torch showed up the Avengers by defeating the mass-murdering robot Ultron all by his lonesome and hooking up with an alien girl who didn't mind the language barrier. Boo-yah!

2. MAKING THE BEST OF A BAD SITUATION: In Civil War, no one smiles... ever. This is because, apparently, readers need to be shown that the situation is that intense. It's like an episode of 24, and everyone is Jack Bauer.

In Secret Wars, despite the fact that they are facing possible death on a planet far away from home at the hands of a god-like being, Thing and Hawkeye remember the value of taking time to laugh. At one point in the series, they convince the villains Klaw and Lizard that, instead of fighting, it would be so much better to settle their differences over a game of patty-cake.

1. STAND TALL, SUPER-SOLDIER!: In Secret Wars, even when his shield gets broken, Captain America doesn't cry.

Instead, when the chips are down and the heroes are at their lowest, he simply decides to kick more ass.

---

I think I prefer Secret Wars, but not for those reasons.

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Posts

  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Uh... Did they actually read Civil War? Or the many, many tie-ins? Like the one where Storm fights Clor?

    I'm guessing not.
    At one point in the series, they convince the villains Klaw and Lizard that, instead of fighting, it would be so much better to settle their differences over a game of patty-cake.
    That's retarded. And one of the many reasons why Secret Wars sucks.
    1. STAND TALL, SUPER-SOLDIER!: In Secret Wars, even when his shield gets broken, Captain America doesn't cry.

    Instead, when the chips are down and the heroes are at their lowest, he simply decides to kick more ass.
    Yeah. Didn't read it, or definitely didn't get it.

    Crimsondude on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    That's retarded. And one of the many reasons why Secret Wars sucks.
    Yeah, leave humor and non-violent solutions out of my comics.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    4 and 6 seemed valid enough, but I think it was meant to be more of a tongue-in-cheek article anyway.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I guess.
    In the end, Cap tearfully surrendered, only to be "killed" for his troubles a few issues later.
    What the fuck?

    Crimsondude on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    4 and 6 seemed valid enough, but I think it was meant to be more of a tongue-in-cheek article anyway.

    It's definitely tongue-in-cheek, but every criticism except number 4 is valid in my eyes as well.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    When the writer comes out with "THOR DOES LIKE THAT COOL THING WHERE HE ALL SMASHES SHIT AND SPEAKS IN YE OLDE ENGLISH BUT THEN CAP ALL CRIES AND WHINES AND SHIT AND IM LIKE SCREW THAT DUDE" I kinda stop picking it apart because it's obviously a pretty exaggerated way of looking at the 2 series.

    Edit: For sense!

    MikeMcSomething on
  • KVWKVW Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Many of the arguements don't make sense. Secret Wars has a common enemy with the Beyonder and clear circumstances. Civil War revolves around political and moral issues that would have people fall on different sides of the argument. It's a comic book and, as such, the only solution is fighting, which happened, what, twice in the entire series?

    Complaining about women in Civil War is also retarded. It's about Tony Stark and Steve Rogers. Everyoen else is just there to take up space and add weight to the arguements. Considering, coming out of Civil War, two women are in charge of the biggest teams in the Marvel Universe, the MIghty Avengers (Ms Marvel) and Thunderbolts (Moonstone), it's hard to say that, with so few women heroes actually in comics, that they are being shafted by this crossover.


    I didn't read the whole article, but it must be all in jest, as none of these hold weight and the comparisions between the two make no sense to me. You could pick any event in the last decade and the same things could be said about them.

    KVW on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Anyone else notice Hulk super-leaping around in the little picture?

    MikeMcSomething on
  • VirralVirral Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I was surprised by how much I enjoyed Secret Wars actually, and I thought the bit with Klaw and Lizard was pretty funny :P

    They are right about the Torch though, he's like Captain Kirk on fire in that series :winky:

    EDIT: Guys, it's a fluff piece, stop taking it so seriously!

    Virral on
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  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    KVW wrote: »
    Many of the arguements don't make sense. Secret Wars has a common enemy with the Beyonder and clear circumstances. Civil War revolves around political and moral issues that would have people fall on different sides of the argument. It's a comic book and, as such, the only solution is fighting, which happened, what, twice in the entire series?

    Complaining about women in Civil War is also retarded. It's about Tony Stark and Steve Rogers. Everyoen else is just there to take up space and add weight to the arguements. Considering, coming out of Civil War, two women are in charge of the biggest teams in the Marvel Universe, the MIghty Avengers (Ms Marvel) and Thunderbolts (Moonstone), it's hard to say that, with so few women heroes actually in comics, that they are being shafted by this crossover.


    I didn't read the whole article, but it must be all in jest, as none of these hold weight and the comparisions between the two make no sense to me. You could pick any event in the last decade and the same things could be said about them.

    Ms. Marvel and Moonstone are clearly not in charge of their respective teams.

    But the absence of strong women and the female perspective is an issue that affects the higher end of over 99% of comics, so I don't see why Civil War should be singled out.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    That's retarded. And one of the many reasons why Secret Wars sucks.
    Yeah, leave humor and non-violent solutions out of my comics.

    No. Sorry. "Humor" back in those days was just childish and awful. I love Matt Fraction, and let's not kid ourselves, he's mad humor and manic energy. And it makes stuff fun. But that whole series was just awful.

    KVW wrote: »
    Complaining about women in Civil War is also retarded. It's about Tony Stark and Steve Rogers. Everyoen else is just there to take up space and add weight to the arguements. Considering, coming out of Civil War, two women are in charge of the biggest teams in the Marvel Universe, the MIghty Avengers (Ms Marvel) and Thunderbolts (Moonstone), it's hard to say that, with so few women heroes actually in comics, that they are being shafted by this crossover.

    Emma is one of the only other characters that gets to take Tony on in the series without there being blood. That should count for something.

    But, yeah. We can talk about the plight of women in comics forever. And I'm generally pretty far on Gail Simone's side. But the point is nonsense. Sue got to play a pretty useful role towards the end, too.


    In the end, my perspective is thus: Civil War brought me back into comics after more than a decade, and back to Marvel after ~15 years. Secret Wars and just everything Jim Shooter's ever touched was cool or neat when I was young, but as an adult it makes me want to vomit. It's not like I credit him for loving Claremont's run on Uncanny, or well... a lot of things. But to be fair, I don't hate Joe Q either for CW not being as good as I wish it could have been (and I blame that mostly on it ending up compressed in the main series, and Millar having all the nuance and subtlety of a wrecking ball).

    But CW never had Hulk hold up a 100 billion ton mountain long enough for all of the heroes to escape from under. At worst, it created Penance.

    Crimsondude on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    crimsondude that last line is not a bad thing at all.

    Hulk should hold up mountains more often

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    You're thinking too small.

    He should have threatened to punch the moon into the Earth in WWH.

    Crimsondude on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    That's retarded. And one of the many reasons why Secret Wars sucks.
    Yeah, leave humor and non-violent solutions out of my comics.

    No. Sorry. "Humor" back in those days was just childish and awful. I love Matt Fraction, and let's not kid ourselves, he's mad humor and manic energy. And it makes stuff fun. But that whole series was just awful.

    KVW wrote: »
    Complaining about women in Civil War is also retarded. It's about Tony Stark and Steve Rogers. Everyoen else is just there to take up space and add weight to the arguements. Considering, coming out of Civil War, two women are in charge of the biggest teams in the Marvel Universe, the MIghty Avengers (Ms Marvel) and Thunderbolts (Moonstone), it's hard to say that, with so few women heroes actually in comics, that they are being shafted by this crossover.

    Emma is one of the only other characters that gets to take Tony on in the series without there being blood. That should count for something.

    But, yeah. We can talk about the plight of women in comics forever. And I'm generally pretty far on Gail Simone's side. But the point is nonsense. Sue got to play a pretty useful role towards the end, too.

    I still see people bitching that her biggest moment was defending her husband.

    Because god forbid the woman actually care for her significant other.

    The Muffin Man on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Did they not read CW #4 when she created the force field which kept the anti-reggers from being annihilated by Clor and SHIELD?

    Crimsondude on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    You're thinking too small.

    He should have threatened to punch the moon into the Earth in WWH.

    only threatened?

    The Lovely Bastard on
    7656367.jpg
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I didn't like how Sue's misgivings about the SHRA disappeared so easily. I can understand her stepping up to defend her husband, but at the end of the day the government is still hunting down her friends and he still carries most of the blame.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I didn't like how Sue's misgivings about the SHRA disappeared so easily. I can understand her stepping up to defend her husband, but at the end of the day the government is still hunting down her friends and he still carries most of the blame.

    I wouldn't be shocked to find that she made a big green about face and the real Sue never actually came back.

    The Muffin Man on
  • kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I didn't like how Sue's misgivings about the SHRA disappeared so easily. I can understand her stepping up to defend her husband, but at the end of the day the government is still hunting down her friends and he still carries most of the blame.

    I wouldn't be shocked to find that she made a big green about face and the real Sue never actually came back.

    That would make my day.

    kdrudy on
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  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    You're thinking too small.

    He should have threatened to punch the moon into the Earth in WWH.

    only threatened?

    Well, he did turn out to be a big pussy.

    Crimsondude on
  • delphinusdelphinus Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    whatever. good joke reasons. and good post cliffjumper

    i felt that civil war was a victim of its own hype train.

    secret wars is always good to pull out now and again to see doom act like the classic asshole.

    and is it bad for me to think that the spoof ending to the civil war better than the actual ending?

    spoiled for Huege
    cwp_07_20.jpg

    delphinus on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    well... I mean... when you pick and choose what you love and hate about two separate things, then compare them... won't the one you love always win?

    In other words, waste of time.

    Sentry on
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  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Secret Wars started me reading comics. I was a goth-punk teen, and picked it up while on a long car journey for something to read. The x-men swooped in, all black leather, cool hair and angst and I was sold.

    Also : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YveSHqhOkdo

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • VirralVirral Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    That was great :D

    Virral on
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  • TravisLeggeTravisLegge Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Secret Wars all the way, kids. Hell, Secret Wars II was better than Civil War.

    But Civil War was silly in my humble. With any luck the whole MU will turn out to be skrulls, and the real heroes will show up, kick Tony's tin can, and save 50 years of comic continuity.

    Of course, thats optimistic at best.

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