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WCK's Drawings - The Good, the Bad and the Badass

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    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    HUGE improvement. Felix Leiter is his name by the way.

    Mustang on
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Heres a new pic ive been working on tonight. trying to get the eyes right. Its from Italian Spiderman. For those who havnt seen it, ive posted the vid as well.

    italianspidermanfiunnypnr9.jpg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhHhXukovMU

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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Hey fellas. Below is a drawing i did. ive been practicing perspective and i just cant get this drawing right. can anyone explain to me what it is i have done which has made this drawing look wrong. cheers peoples!

    eg2ri9.jpg

    eg1au8.jpg

    maybe my vanishing points are too close together???

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    desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    The lines coming from your left vanishing point should match up, angle-wise. They dont. That's probably not helping. Try clean X's coming from your vanishing points and 'hang' the drawing from that framework. EDIT: Also, the second vanishing point on this image seems to be way off the right side of the page, if the stairs/corridor lines are to be believed. But you've confused yourself with the second vanishing point behind the gate there, and you're skewing some of your lines (like the lines on the 'rug' in the main corridor) to make this mistake seem sensible.

    desperaterobots on
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    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Yup the left wall and whatever that thing lying in the hall is, I can see why you angled it that way, but you just wouldn't get that kind of perspective on a rectangular object at that distance.
    Here's a little paintover, should've really done my lines in red, but they're thicker grey. Your right hand wall is a-ok though.

    eg2ri9rj2.jpg

    Mustang on
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Cheers mustang. BTW that thing lying in the hall is 'supposed' to be a staircase going down to a lower level. need work... alot.

    Heres my photoshoped tone im working on. Im working in greyscale so that i get the right value. I suck at colour at the moment.

    scene1oo6.jpg

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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    UPDATE:

    My final finished piece. Probably could use some more defining contrasts.

    italianpennyqk2.jpg

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    jibjibjibjib Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    As a rule, two horizon vanishing points would never be on the same piece of paper. Technically, both points are going to be at a 90 degree angle from each other on whatever plane you are working with, and you will need to have a very long panoramic view to fit two points on the same surface (which will probably still look wrong, since we never really see that in reality.)

    If you're doing a specific 2-point drawing, you'll have to imagine one of the points about 2-4 feet off the page, and approximate the lines. I would start off with making some really good 1-points first. Honestly, realistic 2-point is a pain, and unless you are doing deeper scene, or an angled image, (like a landscape/cityscape from on top of a high mountain), or a very exaggerated picture, then it's usually worth avoiding.

    jibjib on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    Are you going to tutorials and such at the college/course you're doing? It seems like your tutors would be able to help you a lot with some of these things. You're really improving man (I hope that doesn't sound patronising), great job.

    Tube on
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    desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I did a semester of freehand perspective drawing as part of my design degree and I can say that you definitely would have all vanishing points on the page at the same time when you're just starting out with this stuff. They'd be the first things you lay down, and then your drawing would start to emerge from the space in between them.

    Perspective drawing is a fun challenge and it teaches you to think about multiple things at once. Try some three point perspective just for funz, you can get some really dynamic looks out of it.

    This is a sort of crummy explanation of stuff that I googled: http://www.elfwood.com/farp/perspective/perspctv.html

    desperaterobots on
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Hey dudes,

    Heres a working progress pic of Jim Cramer i'm doing with acrylics. I suck at acrylics and wondering if anyone can give me advice for getting the right tones.

    I'm using a colour pallet consisting of...

    Cadmium Red Light
    Ultramarine Blue
    Burnt Sienna
    Naples Yellow
    Unbleached titanium white
    + white

    jimcramerov9.jpg

    winter_combat_knight on
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    jibjibjibjib Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    You need green for skintones. Terra Verre green works well.
    Skintone basics=
    Start with reds and browns.
    lighten with naples yellow
    darken with greens
    never let the yellow-highlights and green-shadows mix or touch, always leave some middle tone in between. (reflected light is an exception to this rule, but i wouldnt worry about this quite yet)

    Work in layers. This means starting out with the darkest color all over, then the next lightest color, which should cover slightly less area, then the next lightest, which covers even less area, and so on and so forth until you get to the tiniest highlights(usually in the eyes and reflections on the skin) which should be small points of pure white or light yellow.

    jibjib on
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Hey fellas thought id post up a new image i did this weekend for practicing of perspective...

    Original rough sketch (wtf is going on here?)

    penny1jy1.jpg

    photoshoped colour

    pennyoz8.jpg

    my work may seem like its all over the place at the moment, but thats because im trying to learn a number of skills at the same time. At University I have my painting class, design studio where im doing environmental concept art and then i do practice in my own time. At the moment since i am still really learning to draw i figure i'll throw myslef towards many areas so that i can have some decent level of skill in a few areas rather than just being limited to one or two.

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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Finished portraite of Jim Cramer. Still a lot of issues but im happy with how much i have improved. my colours are less muddy and i find that i can mix and apply colour faster.

    jimcramerlf0.jpg

    Comparison from my first acrylic painting (uni self portrait)

    compajg6.jpg

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    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Your structure is still non-existant on that one. To be perfectly honest, I think it's a bit of a step back. The colours are more vibrant but if your painting on a skewed framework it doesn't matter how good or bad your colours are. Sorry but you really need to nail your starting point, otherwise your just wasting your time on the rest.

    Mustang on
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    hmmm... it may be a bit of a step back, but i think i have learned/bettered some of my skills from that Jim Cramer painting.

    Anyway...

    Heres a painting for uni that i'm working on. It is for an assignment where we are to illustrate a cover for a childrens book, in my case Red Riding Hood. I'm painting the entire piece with acrylic, but combining it digitally. Maybe a slight paintover in photoshop just to clean it up. So heres what ive done so far...

    Initial sketch

    penny3ow5.jpg

    refined (bring everything closer)

    penny2jx4.jpg

    Final illustration COVER (work in progress)

    *try to imagine better quality scan. My scanner is 8 years old*

    pennylg5.jpg

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    The_Glad_HatterThe_Glad_Hatter One Sly Fox Underneath a Groovy HatRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Your technique seems well enough to pull a descent portrait off, but like mustang said, if you starting point is wrong, it kinda drags the whole painting down a notch... don't worry over the palette too much..
    if you're going for a realistic portrait, first focus on the drawing-bit.

    And the very saturated vibrant colours can come across as a bit gimmicky.. if you make everything in the painting vibrant, it kidna loses its power. these values are all relative to eachother..

    The_Glad_Hatter on
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Tonight i'm starting a new portrait and will hopefully show my tutor at uni tomorrow for advice. I guess my problem is my approach to painting. I think i'll spend extra time trying to set up the structure and block in the details. Thanks dudes!

    winter_combat_knight on
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    EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I've been seeing two consistent problems in your faces. If the face is straight-on, you put your lines on the sheet, but at half profile, you make the same two mistakes -- eyes and cheek. Here, I marked on some of your drawings:

    1.jpg
    2.jpg
    3.jpg
    4.jpg

    Using the closest eye, the further eye doesn't match up, so it always looks out of place. It seems like you're trying to draw a regular eye but you're not accounting for the nose, so the eyeball looks "stuck on" and the nose looks a bit featureless (which is bad for a dominant feature like a nose). You also seem to have trouble with the "empty space" between ear and eye, like you're drawing the face and then think "oh shit, this face is on a head, I need to draw that too!"

    I think your problems with that space extend into your problems with jawlines, and, worse, I think that shows why the pictures you've done with bearded faces look the best -- you do the beard and it covers up jawline and cheek problems.

    EggyToast on
    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    A new painting im working on. Trying not to loose the initial concept as i add more paint. Here it is so far. Still blocking in parts of the darkest tones.

    bobbysofarnm6.jpg

    BTW it's supposed to be Bobby Darin

    ALSO, cheers for the heads up eggy toast! Yeah i got to work on my placement of the eyes and structures of the noses.

    winter_combat_knight on
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    desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Hey winter, I'm interested to know your process when you draw faces/figures?

    Because I've only just realised that I do, actually, have a process and it's not just magically coming out of my hands. I'm crap with figures, but for faces I first up draw a circle, then the nose, then the eye closest to the viewer, then the far eye, then the lips, cheekbones, jaw, ears and hair. I'm not aiming for realism, of course, but this way helps eliminate wasting time if I fuck up the most important features. That is, if I get my nose right then mangle the eyes, at least I havent spent too much time on the other details before starting again.

    I use this pattern on almost all my drawings, and I go over my lines again and again and again. It doesn't look clean much of the time, but it comes off characterful. I also find that establishing where the nose is on the face helps to determine the relative size/shape/placement of every other feature. Some of your stuff looks like you spend time in areas that might not be worth the investment, and other bits look neglected. Do you work over the face in random waves, or do you distinctly focus on eyes then nose then lips etc?

    desperaterobots on
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    *draws up a quick sketch*

    I start with blocking in the shape of face, Then i sketch in the eyes and nose, positioning everthing in relation to the shape of the face ive drawn in. This is probably my weakness because i just realised that i dont really refine the shape of the face much before i try to add in the eyes and nose. Anyway, from here i sketch in the back of the head and the ear, and then the neck. I have a process that i go through, but i generally don't think about it.

    Once it's all blocked in, yes, i focus on the nose, then the eyes, then usually the mouth and ears. Maybe this is a weakness? Should i work on something, leave it, then work on another feature and come back and refine it later?

    I have trouble with details like where i place the eyes, nose mouth and the size they should be in comparison to the rest of the face. I really have trouble trying to measure out and align things correctly on paper when using my reference photos because things get blurry or kinda appear to move around the page, usually when im focussing hard on getting it correct.

    Thanks for asking. It's made me realise i need to think about my approach a bit (LOT) more.

    winter_combat_knight on
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    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Focus on that left hand eye, the placement is shot. Look at your drawing from a mathematical perspective and you'll see where it's gone wrong. Getting these details right are the most important thing right now.

    Mustang on
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Hey fellas, finally finished my storybook illustration for my painting class.

    Spoiler = Original painting
    pennylg5.jpg

    Done with acrylics on masonite board. Seriously it looks much better in real life than the image. My scanner sucks. But yeah, i'm happy with it, considering it's my first environmental painting.

    pennyxc4.jpg

    If i where to do it again, i'd definately plan it better. If i did a detailed sketch to begin with i'd be able to see what worked, and what didnt. There was many hours of messing around with this, getting things to look right, colour contrasts etc. It ended up ok in the end i think. BTW my tutor (Best. illustrator. Ever) gave me some tips on painting bushes, which helped a lot.

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    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Would've prefered the cottage to be a bit more geometric, but I don't hate this. Thumbs up.

    Mustang on
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    Drew_9999Drew_9999 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    EggyToast wrote: »

    1.jpg
    2.jpg
    3.jpg
    4.jpg
    These corrections are either incorrect or just bad examples. The head is a round shape, so unless you are looking at a face straight on, the eyes will not line up in a straight line. To make the eye line, draw an oval shape around the head, as if you were tracing a line around an egg. This works for all the facial features. If you line them up with a straight line, your character will look warped and flat.

    Drew_9999 on
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Drew_9999 wrote: »
    These corrections are either incorrect or just bad examples. The head is a round shape, so unless you are looking at a face straight on, the eyes will not line up in a straight line. To make the eye line, draw an oval shape around the head, as if you were tracing a line around an egg. This works for all the facial features. If you line them up with a straight line, your character will look warped and flat.

    Are you saying ive done it wrong, or the person who posted this 'corrections' is wrong?

    winter_combat_knight on
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    EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I'll admit that it's not a perfect "correction," but a quick jot to something that looked consistently off in the half-profile pictures. More that I was trying to draw attention to the eye placement and cheek size on your half-profile shots.

    I noticed in your head-on shots that there were no problems with the general "make up" of the facial features, but when you shifted to half profile things seemed off. It was a quick way for me to illustrate (without messing with arcs and curves). For those two, the ones that seemed the most "wrong" were the terminator and harrison ford ones. The others I added because they were also half profile, but were more hastily drawn so it was more difficult to see what angle the head was turned.

    If you note, the further away eye on both arnold and harrison ford are above that line, and subsequently would also be well above the arc going around the head. On the two other pictures, it's below the line, and while not placed incorrectly, their shapes don't seem to match with their position. For example, on the "fat guy," the eye appears to be in the same orientation as the closer eye, but oddly smaller -- the top curve of the eye seems like it starts in an odd place, but I'm not familiar with your starting picture. Same with the "geeky guy" -- it's a quick sketch and I'm not familiar with the starting picture, so it actually may have no problems at all.

    EggyToast on
    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Eggy - Cheers for clearing that up. BTW that 'geeky' guy is supposed to be Louis Tully from Ghostbusters :)

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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Update on my uni assignment. Im doing concept art and had to come up with an idea for a video game. This is set in a resort for prisoners who have been on good behaviour. Im doing a mixture of detailed and loose drawings. Never done concept art/environment art so this has been good practice.

    pieceofshat2ly1.jpg

    prison1fd7.jpg

    Ive tried giving it a rich but also dirty prison look. Ive included bullet holes, graffiti and in the second one im adding blood stains to the crapet.

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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Speed painting of Michael Jackson. Took me about 1.5 hours all up. Sketched on paper, coloured in photoshop.

    michaeljacksonfr3.jpg

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    desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    It sort of seems like you don't have an entirely good grip on the underlying structures that make things appear as they appear.

    However, that is Michael Jackson you're illustrating, and he's all kinds of fucked up looking.

    desperaterobots on
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    yeah i agree. I'm still practicing though.

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    desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Have you tried breaking down faces/people into simple geometric shapes, just so you can get a feel for where each plane of the face sits in relation to the other? I found that was a good way for me to get a grip on underlying structures.

    desperaterobots on
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    RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited September 2008
    instead of jumping straight to paint, you might want to do a whole bunch of 2 minute scattergun gesture drawings, either from live source or from photo reference (live source will help you much more in understanding basic form).

    A scattergun approach is where you basically move very loose and in continuous line, just to get basic form laid in. No detail, not spending more than a minute or two max on each sketch. You'll end up with sketches basically like this (not mine, found by GIS, used for example)

    gestures.jpeg

    77085336.u1tbcuWX.gesture.gif

    they may seem rudimentary and rough as hell, but they're a wonderful way to break yourself out of the habit of drawing each piece as a separate part (eyes, mouth, nose, hair, etc) and learning to draw the entire form as a whole, which it seems you may still have issue with.

    right now you seem stuck where I am - having trouble getting actual placement and proportion just right. These gesture sketches have helped me a ton in learning to loosen up and not focus so much on getting everything right on the first pass. First block in where things go as one cohesive whole, then work on getting the detail from there.

    Rankenphile on
    8406wWN.png
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    ah ok. I'll give that a try. Cheers mate!

    winter_combat_knight on
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I tried structuring the face a little more, adding in details as i went. I blocked in the shapes, and gave my best attempt at lining everything up right.
    A comparison between my original drawing and the new one i did tonight. I think the new one looks much better.

    *new one is on the right*

    mjpennykh0.jpg

    The hands i think look odd because they where a photo reference of mine done seperately. And his jacket is kinda weird too as its referenced from another photo. I probably should have done a full body reference in that pose, and apply MJ's facial features to it. oh well. Next time.

    BTW sorry for all the Michael Jackson pics :)

    winter_combat_knight on
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    ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The new one looks completely different. Did your reference change or were you that far off mark in the first attempt?

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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The new one i used a few more references to try to get his face structure right. I think i may have rushed the first attempt. Also, because i didnt want to directly copy a photo of him, i tried to create my own pose, which for the original i didn't build up the face with shapes (cheers for the heads up dudes) so it ended up being a lot of guess work. I hope that people see the new one and say "hey, thats MJ!".

    Its amazing what a difference it makes building up the face as you go. Cheers dudes.

    Also, i worked out a light source before i started which i think adds more depth to it.

    winter_combat_knight on
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    winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Well, i descided to go back to my original MJ sketch, but refined the face a little. Still a bit odd, but i think theres more character than the new sketch. Heres an update of my painting ive been working on from around 12:30pm this arvo, to about now (6:30pm). I think its going ok. I took a few pics with my phone as i was painting.

    Initial

    11vn2.jpg

    62626051dg8.jpg

    Current stage

    42046972hz7.jpg

    winter_combat_knight on
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