I think people are being a bit OTT in how they're picking on N'gai Croals comments here. What's particularly funny are the comments calling him a racist just for looking at the trailer in that light.
There was actually a really good write-up I found about the kind of imagery he was talking about about. I'd suggest reading it if you want to understand just what imagery he was thinking of:
What he's talking about is largely the history of such imagery and how emotive that is. Whether you actually agree with that assessment, or whether or not we should have left such sentiments behind by now, is a different issue. I can at least understand his comments and the feeling behind them though. Really I think he's catching too much flack for what he said.
Yeah, but it looks racist if you take it out of the context of the game.
The context being that the Plagas make people go batshit insane.
I'm not disagreeing there. I just think Capcom could have done more to establish constext in that original trailer and then they wouldn't have really had this problem, or at least not as much.
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited May 2008
Every awesome idea always has to be controversial and bad and people keep harassing the developers until they change it into something completely opposite of the original idea.
Capcom just wanted to make an awesome game about shooting poor,starving blacks in Africa.
And now after all the bitching they were pissed and decided "God fuck those tards, let's throw some fucking monsters in and shit."
I think people are being a bit OTT in how they're picking on N'gai Croals comments here. What's particularly funny are the comments calling him a racist just for looking at the trailer in that light.
There was actually a really good write-up I found about the kind of imagery he was talking about about. I'd suggest reading it if you want to understand just what imagery he was thinking of:
What he's talking about is largely the history of such imagery and how emotive that is. Whether you actually agree with that assessment, or whether or not we should have left such sentiments behind by now, is a different issue. I can at least understand his comments and the feeling behind them though. Really I think he's catching too much flack for what he said.
Yeah, but it looks racist if you take it out of the context of the game.
The context being that the Plagas make people go batshit insane.
I think his point is that it looks racist if you take it in context of history.
The history being the 'Brute' imagery that was so prevalent back in the 1900s, and still has echos today.
I think his point about 1940s emaciated jewish zombies is a good one. Slightly more extreme, but that just goes to illustrate the point more clearly.
I'm not disagreeing there. I just think Capcom could have done more to establish constext in that original trailer and then they wouldn't have really had this problem, or at least not as much.
Yup. I'd feel a lot less conflicted about being seen in public with this game if they were to make sure the context was more clear.
Every awesome idea always has to be controversial and bad and people keep harassing the developers until they change it into something completely opposite of the original idea.
Capcom just wanted to make an awesome game about shooting poor,starving blacks in Africa.
And now after all the bitching they were pissed and decided "God fuck those tards, let's throw some fucking monsters in and shit."
And now we get this game.
Uh... what?
Presume my sarcasm detector's broken here, are you actually being serious? I'd like to say you're not except that I've read similar comments elsewhere.
An RE game was always going to include monsters and zombies.
In any case, I think it's important to realise that any actual controversy wasn't really deliberate. They weren't trying to hit sensitive imagery, they just did by accident. In general, in Japan the kind of knowledge necessary to understand this kind of imagery just isn't part of the history or the culture, so of course they'll sometimes hit something controversial.
I'll give you an example. Anyone ever watched Dragonball Z? Yes I know, crap and all, but tremendously popular.
In that show there's a bit character called Mr. Popo. Let's look at some images of Mr. Popo shall we?
Now in Japan, these images are seen as cute and are quite harmless. And really, he comes off as just alien enough that it might not matter anyway. But then, say if an American cartoon company made a character of similar design to that? All HELL would break loose.
Now it's obvious to any western observer with even a modicum of understanding of race relations history where Mr. Popo's design archetype came from. The Japanese saw that design archetype, took it, and used it, thinking there was nothing behind it. They have no context or understanding of what the roots of that image really are. And it's not an uncommon one in Japan either, when you can even pick up dolls today depicting that same caricature. To them it's just cute.
I think people are being a bit OTT in how they're picking on N'gai Croals comments here. What's particularly funny are the comments calling him a racist just for looking at the trailer in that light.
There was actually a really good write-up I found about the kind of imagery he was talking about about. I'd suggest reading it if you want to understand just what imagery he was thinking of:
What he's talking about is largely the history of such imagery and how emotive that is. Whether you actually agree with that assessment, or whether or not we should have left such sentiments behind by now, is a different issue. I can at least understand his comments and the feeling behind them though. Really I think he's catching too much flack for what he said.
Yeah, but it looks racist if you take it out of the context of the game.
The context being that the Plagas make people go batshit insane.
I think his point is that it looks racist if you take it in context of history.
The history being the 'Brute' imagery that was so prevalent back in the 1900s, and still has echos today.
I think his point about 1940s emaciated jewish zombies is a good one. Slightly more extreme, but that just goes to illustrate the point more clearly.
True, but I feel that it is more sensible to put it in context of the game.
I do agree that they should made the context a little more clear in the other trailer though. All you see is one scene where they're shoving the Plagas down some poor guy's throat and that's it. The rest are all pretty normal looking people.
Hopefully the new trailer would clear out some of the shitstorm at least.
I think people are being a bit OTT in how they're picking on N'gai Croals comments here. What's particularly funny are the comments calling him a racist just for looking at the trailer in that light.
There was actually a really good write-up I found about the kind of imagery he was talking about about. I'd suggest reading it if you want to understand just what imagery he was thinking of:
What he's talking about is largely the history of such imagery and how emotive that is. Whether you actually agree with that assessment, or whether or not we should have left such sentiments behind by now, is a different issue. I can at least understand his comments and the feeling behind them though. Really I think he's catching too much flack for what he said.
Yeah, but it looks racist if you take it out of the context of the game.
The context being that the Plagas make people go batshit insane.
I think his point is that it looks racist if you take it in context of history.
The history being the 'Brute' imagery that was so prevalent back in the 1900s, and still has echos today.
I think his point about 1940s emaciated jewish zombies is a good one. Slightly more extreme, but that just goes to illustrate the point more clearly.
True, but I feel that it is more sensible to put it in context of the game.
I do agree that they should made the context a little more clear in the other trailer though. All you see is one scene where they're shoving the Plagas down some poor guy's throat and that's it. The rest are all pretty normal looking people.
Hopefully the new trailer would clear out some of the shitstorm at least.
Yeah. Honestly, I'll reserve judgement untill I actually play the game (and/or reviews are out), but man, I really hope they at least make that clear while playing the game, otherwise I'm just going to feel dirty.
Of course, they didn't feel the need to make any distinction like that in RE4, so chances are...
I'm suddenly reminded of a certain pokemon named Jynx.
Like I said, it's a popular archetype. I don't think they realise that it has a history. If I'm honest though, I think that should be their responsibility if they're going to use it, or at least use them in places where that imagery originated and does in fact have a history.
Are images like Jynx and Mr. Popo racist when there's no actual racist sensibility or intent behind them? The people using them may not even realise those are supposed to be representations of black people in the first place.
I think people are being a bit OTT in how they're picking on N'gai Croals comments here. What's particularly funny are the comments calling him a racist just for looking at the trailer in that light.
There was actually a really good write-up I found about the kind of imagery he was talking about about. I'd suggest reading it if you want to understand just what imagery he was thinking of:
What he's talking about is largely the history of such imagery and how emotive that is. Whether you actually agree with that assessment, or whether or not we should have left such sentiments behind by now, is a different issue. I can at least understand his comments and the feeling behind them though. Really I think he's catching too much flack for what he said.
Yeah, but it looks racist if you take it out of the context of the game.
The context being that the Plagas make people go batshit insane.
I think his point is that it looks racist if you take it in context of history.
The history being the 'Brute' imagery that was so prevalent back in the 1900s, and still has echos today.
I think his point about 1940s emaciated jewish zombies is a good one. Slightly more extreme, but that just goes to illustrate the point more clearly.
True, but I feel that it is more sensible to put it in context of the game.
I do agree that they should made the context a little more clear in the other trailer though. All you see is one scene where they're shoving the Plagas down some poor guy's throat and that's it. The rest are all pretty normal looking people.
Hopefully the new trailer would clear out some of the shitstorm at least.
Yeah. Honestly, I'll reserve judgement untill I actually play the game (and/or reviews are out), but man, I really hope they at least make that clear while playing the game, otherwise I'm just going to feel dirty.
Of course, they didn't feel the need to make any distinction like that in RE4, so chances are...
Well there was token Not-Spaniard Lewis Sera, who was not infected and was utterly awesome. Throw in one or two characters like that and it'll change the context pretty fast.
I'm suddenly reminded of a certain pokemon named Jynx.
Like I said, it's a popular archetype. I don't think they realise that it has a history. If I'm honest though, I think that should be their responsibility if they're going to use it, or at least use them in places where that imagery originated and does in fact have a history.
Are images like Jynx and Mr. Popo racist when there's no actual racist sensibility or intent behind them? The people using them may not even realise those are supposed to be representations of black people in the first place.
Actually they were forced to change the colour of Jynx to purple.
I think people are being a bit OTT in how they're picking on N'gai Croals comments here. What's particularly funny are the comments calling him a racist just for looking at the trailer in that light.
There was actually a really good write-up I found about the kind of imagery he was talking about about. I'd suggest reading it if you want to understand just what imagery he was thinking of:
What he's talking about is largely the history of such imagery and how emotive that is. Whether you actually agree with that assessment, or whether or not we should have left such sentiments behind by now, is a different issue. I can at least understand his comments and the feeling behind them though. Really I think he's catching too much flack for what he said.
Yeah, but it looks racist if you take it out of the context of the game.
The context being that the Plagas make people go batshit insane.
I think his point is that it looks racist if you take it in context of history.
The history being the 'Brute' imagery that was so prevalent back in the 1900s, and still has echos today.
I think his point about 1940s emaciated jewish zombies is a good one. Slightly more extreme, but that just goes to illustrate the point more clearly.
True, but I feel that it is more sensible to put it in context of the game.
I do agree that they should made the context a little more clear in the other trailer though. All you see is one scene where they're shoving the Plagas down some poor guy's throat and that's it. The rest are all pretty normal looking people.
Hopefully the new trailer would clear out some of the shitstorm at least.
Yeah. Honestly, I'll reserve judgement untill I actually play the game (and/or reviews are out), but man, I really hope they at least make that clear while playing the game, otherwise I'm just going to feel dirty.
Of course, they didn't feel the need to make any distinction like that in RE4, so chances are...
Aye. But RE4 was the story that was introducing the Plagas to us, so it makes sense that they would reveal it to us gradually over the game.
And since RE5 looks to be a continuation of the Plagas story from RE4, the distinction will probably be made pretty early on in the game since the Plagas is already revealed.
I gotta say...that new video really looks much scarier to me. I don't like the dark much, and having not-zombies coming at me when I can't see them very well...I...aw heck...bring it on!:twisted::^:
Res 4 was just incredible, and more of the same, but scarier and better graphics is just perfect to me.
I seriously, this was just freakin' incredible, and still is. I wonder if there'll be giants like this in Not-Africa?
I'm suddenly reminded of a certain pokemon named Jynx.
Like I said, it's a popular archetype. I don't think they realise that it has a history. If I'm honest though, I think that should be their responsibility if they're going to use it, or at least use them in places where that imagery originated and does in fact have a history.
Are images like Jynx and Mr. Popo racist when there's no actual racist sensibility or intent behind them? The people using them may not even realise those are supposed to be representations of black people in the first place.
Actually they were forced to change the colour of Jynx to purple.
Interesting. Looks like that design change even went back to the Japanese versions later on. If nothing else it at least shows that the appearance of characters like Jynx wasn't really meant to be mean spirited or racial, it was just borne of misunderstanding of the context.
I gotta say...that new video really looks much scarier to me. I don't like the dark much, and having not-zombies coming at me when I can't see them very well...I...aw heck...bring it on!:twisted::^:
Res 4 was just incredible, and more of the same, but scarier and better graphics is just perfect to me.
I seriously, this was just freakin' incredible, and still is. I wonder if there'll be giants like this in Not-Africa?
Wow. Looking at that screenshot I realise for the first time just how much better the modded PC version looks. All of a sudden I'm not so bitter about the (originally crappy) port anymore.
Wonder if number 5 will come to the PC. Capcom said it wasn't on the cards, but who knows.
I gotta say...that new video really looks much scarier to me. I don't like the dark much, and having not-zombies coming at me when I can't see them very well...I...aw heck...bring it on!:twisted::^:
Res 4 was just incredible, and more of the same, but scarier and better graphics is just perfect to me.
I seriously, this was just freakin' incredible, and still is. I wonder if there'll be giants like this in Not-Africa?
Wow. Looking at that screenshot I realise for the first time just how much better the modded PC version looks. All of a sudden I'm not so bitter about the (originally crappy) port anymore.
Wonder if number 5 will come to the PC. Capcom said it wasn't on the cards, but who knows.
And then you suddenly remember that there wasn't mouse support.
I gotta say...that new video really looks much scarier to me. I don't like the dark much, and having not-zombies coming at me when I can't see them very well...I...aw heck...bring it on!:twisted::^:
Res 4 was just incredible, and more of the same, but scarier and better graphics is just perfect to me.
I seriously, this was just freakin' incredible, and still is. I wonder if there'll be giants like this in Not-Africa?
Wow. Looking at that screenshot I realise for the first time just how much better the modded PC version looks. All of a sudden I'm not so bitter about the (originally crappy) port anymore.
Wonder if number 5 will come to the PC. Capcom said it wasn't on the cards, but who knows.
And then you suddenly remember that there wasn't mouse support.
Then all that bitterness comes flooding back.
360 pad = goes away again (after you've modded in the proper button prompts. It's unbelievable that they missed something so frigging basic).
Yeah it was really stupid of them not to include mouse support. They NEED to remember to include it if they ever port over RE5. Yes I've heard the arguments that it would make the game 'too easy', but the same arguments were levelled at RE4 Wii edition, and better aiming didn't take anything away from the game, it made the game more fun.
lols. "I may not be as big as you, but I can hold my own."
never stop, Capcom.
Your right hand comes off?
You're a small-time!
"Where'd everybody go? Bingo?"
It's the cheesy B-movie dialogue that always makes those moments. I can't imagine that they're doing it intentionally or in a knowing manner, and that just makes the one liners so much more awesome for it.
Looks like these guys are getting a sort of plagas.
EDIT: already posted. I was thrown of with all the racism talk. I was expecting more OMG AWESOMESAUCE DIX and such.
It's fucking annoying isn't it? The new trailer was incredibly awesome on every level, but instead we get pages of hurf durf racism.
I agree, we should only talk about what Aegeri proclaims we should!
Look, we've talked about the trailer, and then the discussion went on to other things. As nice a trailer as it may or may not be, it's not as if it's the centre of the Resident Evil universe.
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited May 2008
I agree, we should only talk about what Aegeri proclaims we should!
Personally, I was able to figure out that the game was about zombies from the fact it was called Resident Evil. That they act aggressive and animalistic sort of follows on from that and not their race. Then again, maybe I've been playing the wrong Resident Evil games for the past few years.
I agree, we should only talk about what Aegeri proclaims we should!
Personally, I was able to figure out that the game was about zombies from the fact it was called Resident Evil. That they act aggressive and animalistic sort of follows on from that and not their race. Then again, maybe I've been playing the wrong Resident Evil games for the past few years.
That's nice. When we're discussing you I'll be sure to bring up the point you raise here.
Yeah, I'm kind of wondering if there will be any aftergame 'bonus' missions or scenarios where you take control of her specifically to do various things (or if this even occurs in game, ala Rebecca in Remake). I wonder if she inexplicably has more inventory slots...
As for Mike, I had this small theory that he was really Hunk.
Posts
that sniper thing on the bridge? cool
the mouth petals? cool
I'm not disagreeing there. I just think Capcom could have done more to establish constext in that original trailer and then they wouldn't have really had this problem, or at least not as much.
Capcom just wanted to make an awesome game about shooting poor,starving blacks in Africa.
And now after all the bitching they were pissed and decided "God fuck those tards, let's throw some fucking monsters in and shit."
And now we get this game.
I think his point is that it looks racist if you take it in context of history.
The history being the 'Brute' imagery that was so prevalent back in the 1900s, and still has echos today.
I think his point about 1940s emaciated jewish zombies is a good one. Slightly more extreme, but that just goes to illustrate the point more clearly.
Yup. I'd feel a lot less conflicted about being seen in public with this game if they were to make sure the context was more clear.
Uh... what?
Presume my sarcasm detector's broken here, are you actually being serious? I'd like to say you're not except that I've read similar comments elsewhere.
An RE game was always going to include monsters and zombies.
In any case, I think it's important to realise that any actual controversy wasn't really deliberate. They weren't trying to hit sensitive imagery, they just did by accident. In general, in Japan the kind of knowledge necessary to understand this kind of imagery just isn't part of the history or the culture, so of course they'll sometimes hit something controversial.
I'll give you an example. Anyone ever watched Dragonball Z? Yes I know, crap and all, but tremendously popular.
In that show there's a bit character called Mr. Popo. Let's look at some images of Mr. Popo shall we?
http://images.google.com/images?q=mr%20popo
Now in Japan, these images are seen as cute and are quite harmless. And really, he comes off as just alien enough that it might not matter anyway. But then, say if an American cartoon company made a character of similar design to that? All HELL would break loose.
Now it's obvious to any western observer with even a modicum of understanding of race relations history where Mr. Popo's design archetype came from. The Japanese saw that design archetype, took it, and used it, thinking there was nothing behind it. They have no context or understanding of what the roots of that image really are. And it's not an uncommon one in Japan either, when you can even pick up dolls today depicting that same caricature. To them it's just cute.
True, but I feel that it is more sensible to put it in context of the game.
I do agree that they should made the context a little more clear in the other trailer though. All you see is one scene where they're shoving the Plagas down some poor guy's throat and that's it. The rest are all pretty normal looking people.
Hopefully the new trailer would clear out some of the shitstorm at least.
Yeah. Honestly, I'll reserve judgement untill I actually play the game (and/or reviews are out), but man, I really hope they at least make that clear while playing the game, otherwise I'm just going to feel dirty.
Of course, they didn't feel the need to make any distinction like that in RE4, so chances are...
Like I said, it's a popular archetype. I don't think they realise that it has a history. If I'm honest though, I think that should be their responsibility if they're going to use it, or at least use them in places where that imagery originated and does in fact have a history.
Are images like Jynx and Mr. Popo racist when there's no actual racist sensibility or intent behind them? The people using them may not even realise those are supposed to be representations of black people in the first place.
Well there was token Not-Spaniard Lewis Sera, who was not infected and was utterly awesome. Throw in one or two characters like that and it'll change the context pretty fast.
Actually they were forced to change the colour of Jynx to purple.
Aye. But RE4 was the story that was introducing the Plagas to us, so it makes sense that they would reveal it to us gradually over the game.
And since RE5 looks to be a continuation of the Plagas story from RE4, the distinction will probably be made pretty early on in the game since the Plagas is already revealed.
Res 4 was just incredible, and more of the same, but scarier and better graphics is just perfect to me.
I seriously, this was just freakin' incredible, and still is. I wonder if there'll be giants like this in Not-Africa?
Interesting. Looks like that design change even went back to the Japanese versions later on. If nothing else it at least shows that the appearance of characters like Jynx wasn't really meant to be mean spirited or racial, it was just borne of misunderstanding of the context.
Well... shit.
Really? I read that the plot was about Redfield trying to find the source of the Plagas.
Wow. Looking at that screenshot I realise for the first time just how much better the modded PC version looks. All of a sudden I'm not so bitter about the (originally crappy) port anymore.
Wonder if number 5 will come to the PC. Capcom said it wasn't on the cards, but who knows.
And then you suddenly remember that there wasn't mouse support.
Then all that bitterness comes flooding back.
360 pad = goes away again (after you've modded in the proper button prompts. It's unbelievable that they missed something so frigging basic).
Yeah it was really stupid of them not to include mouse support. They NEED to remember to include it if they ever port over RE5. Yes I've heard the arguments that it would make the game 'too easy', but the same arguments were levelled at RE4 Wii edition, and better aiming didn't take anything away from the game, it made the game more fun.
never stop, Capcom.
Your right hand comes off?
You're a small-time!
"Where'd everybody go? Bingo?"
It's the cheesy B-movie dialogue that always makes those moments. I can't imagine that they're doing it intentionally or in a knowing manner, and that just makes the one liners so much more awesome for it.
MMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE!
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/34647.html
Looks like these guys are getting a sort of plagas.
EDIT: already posted. I was thrown of with all the racism talk. I was expecting more OMG AWESOMESAUCE DIX and such.
"Yeah, hey, I know a good bar."
Oh man, that part really made me sad. Mike was totally awesome.
If they did one thing right, it was making a character so likeable in such a short space of time.
Shame they killed him off after said amount of time.
It's fucking annoying isn't it? The new trailer was incredibly awesome on every level, but instead we get pages of hurf durf racism.
I agree, we should only talk about what Aegeri proclaims we should!
Look, we've talked about the trailer, and then the discussion went on to other things. As nice a trailer as it may or may not be, it's not as if it's the centre of the Resident Evil universe.
Meh, he was only awesome because he had big frigging miniguns and saved your arse.
Take him out of his chopper and I bet he can't even do a head-busting reverse German suplex like other characters can.
As for Mike, I had this small theory that he was really Hunk.
Personally, I was able to figure out that the game was about zombies from the fact it was called Resident Evil. That they act aggressive and animalistic sort of follows on from that and not their race. Then again, maybe I've been playing the wrong Resident Evil games for the past few years.
That's nice. When we're discussing you I'll be sure to bring up the point you raise here.
Yeah, I'm kind of wondering if there will be any aftergame 'bonus' missions or scenarios where you take control of her specifically to do various things (or if this even occurs in game, ala Rebecca in Remake). I wonder if she inexplicably has more inventory slots...
All RE games need more hunk.
and a super punch
and an uppercut
shit why does he even go in armed