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Overclocking
exis
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I figured if anyone wanted to talk about it there might aswell be a thread. If not I suppose it will die slowly and painfully. I should state beforehand that I'm pretty new to most of this.
I'm working on selecting parts for my new computer. And am thinking this time I might look into overclocking a little. On another set of forums I get computer advice from, people seem to always be going on about it. Like it's just what you do every time you buy a new CPU etc. Yet around here, after looking through the "post your rig" thread, it doesn't seem to be a big deal. I'm more inclined to trust the denizens of PA than said forum, so what are your thoughts?
After looking through the wiki, the main point that jumped out at me was this:
Now, at the moment I'm looking at a quad-core Q6600. I was advised on this other forum to go for a dual-core, because 'the quads give off so much more heat that they're a lot rougher to overclock, you'll get more out of an OC'd E8400'. I don't really know how seriously to take that. Firstly, is it worth overclocking at all? If so, is he right about dual-cores vs quad-cores?
And next, probably more importantly. What kind of extra components are going to be needed if I were to look at overclocking? Biggers PSU, I guess.. how big? A giant copper heatsink? A few really big fans are good, right? If I actually go the overclocking route I think I'll just leave my old PC intact and buy a new case with bigger/better cooling, so this is something I would like to figure out before I go buying everything.
Thoughts?
I'm working on selecting parts for my new computer. And am thinking this time I might look into overclocking a little. On another set of forums I get computer advice from, people seem to always be going on about it. Like it's just what you do every time you buy a new CPU etc. Yet around here, after looking through the "post your rig" thread, it doesn't seem to be a big deal. I'm more inclined to trust the denizens of PA than said forum, so what are your thoughts?
After looking through the wiki, the main point that jumped out at me was this:
Overclocking will not necessarily save money. Non-trivial speed increases often require premium cooling equipment to avoid unacceptably high temperatures, and a costly 'overclocking friendly' motherboard. It can also become an expensive pastime. Many people who consider themselves overclockers spend significantly more on computer equipment than the average person. However, recent innovations in CPU manufacturing technology means that significant gains can be made from certain processors. This is shown clearly in the Intel Core 2 range: any chip in the E6x00 family, including the lower end E6300 model, can be overclocked to or above X6800 speeds in a number of cases, though this is not guaranteed by any means
Now, at the moment I'm looking at a quad-core Q6600. I was advised on this other forum to go for a dual-core, because 'the quads give off so much more heat that they're a lot rougher to overclock, you'll get more out of an OC'd E8400'. I don't really know how seriously to take that. Firstly, is it worth overclocking at all? If so, is he right about dual-cores vs quad-cores?
And next, probably more importantly. What kind of extra components are going to be needed if I were to look at overclocking? Biggers PSU, I guess.. how big? A giant copper heatsink? A few really big fans are good, right? If I actually go the overclocking route I think I'll just leave my old PC intact and buy a new case with bigger/better cooling, so this is something I would like to figure out before I go buying everything.
Thoughts?
exis on
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Also, if you're interested in an average of overclocking results for the recent (read: last 1-2 years) Intel line, check out this thread over at hardforum: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1138241
I can tell you from my own experience that overclocking the Q6600 is pretty damn easy. With the stock cooling I got it up to 2.8GHz, and with an aftermarket cooler I'm up to 3.3GHz.
I didn't notice any difference at first, in terms of general computer swiftness; however, I did notice a change when I went back to stock settings for a few weeks and then jumped back up to the overclock. This at least should let you know that there is some real-world benefit to all this, and it's not just all about embiggening your e-penis.
there are two methods for overclocking the CPU. one involves increasing the CPU's "multiplier". each CPU chip has a multiplier. you (appropriately enough) multiply your motherboard's FSB by the CPU multiplier to get the actual CPU speed. for example, the E8400 has a multiplier (the "bus/core ratio") of 9. the E8400's rated speed is thus 9 multiplied by the processor's rated FSB speed, which is 333.33mhz. increasing the multiplier is largely chip-dependent, and at worst will require slight boosts in the voltage applied to the processor. however, the E8400, and most of Intel's processors really, have their multipliers locked. the "Extreme" chip line sold by Intel all have unlocked multipliers, but they also cost $Texas.
the other overlocking method that is left open then is to increase the motherboard's FSB. this puts a bit more strain on your overall system, but it's the method most open to the typical user. motherboards are usually meant to run at their rated speed, but certain motherboard manufacturers cater to the overclocking crowd. that's why getting a good motherboard is important. i'd go with ASUS boards personally, but you can always check out www.hardocp.com, www.anandtech.com, www.tomshardware.com, or www.sharkyextreme.com to see what kind of boards are out there.
PC builders and enthusiasts like the E8400 because its multiplier is already pretty high. increasing the FSB only a little bit gets you better boosts in speed. the Q6600 G0 stepping chip also has a multiplier of 9. i am currently building a system based on a Q9450, which has an 8x multiplier. it's not as ideal as the Q6600, but it's based on the 45nm architecture, and it seems like a lot of people have had good lucking getting the chip to run at 3.6ghz just on air cooling.
as for cooling, check this page out. i'm going with the Thermalright Ultra 120 extreme, because a huge number of internet forums posters AND professional website reviewers have given it the thumbs-up for overclocking. but there are some great value heatsink/fan combos out there. you also will want a well-ventilated computer case. i've become a Lian-Li fanboy recently because of their removable/slide-out motherboard trays, but the Antec 900 case is getting decent reviews as well. but yeah, if your current computer case doesn't have good fans (like a pair of 120mm fans or something similar), you'll very much want to consider investing in a new case.
lastly, on PSUs, a 650w power supply would probably be ideal. overlocking sometimes does require that you increase the voltage being supplied to the CPU a little over the spec ratings. there's also a phenomenon called "Vdroop", where the voltage drops suddenly because of various things. that can lead to an unstable system. the power supply is fairly key; most importantly, you should check the "rails" of the power supply and see what kind of power they deliver. i'd say if you're overclocking, it's important to have 12v rails that deliver a good amount of juice. check out the above review sites for an idea of what PSU you will want to pick up. btw, 1000w PSUs are overkill. i would not get anything over 750w at the most.
lastly, i found some really good overclocking guides for the Intel Core chips: http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/13815
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=227317
keep in mind: overclocking takes a hell of a lot of time. but the extra time is worth it.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
The Case
It's got plenty of fans, I love the two in the front and simply adore the 200mm that sits on the back blowing air out the top. The PSU mounts on the bottom which I find is much easier to work with (though I switched to modular) in terms of stuffing extra cables away. There's plenty of room in this case as well.
For a cpu cooler I suggest Zalman or Scythe or Thermalright. It's hard to go wrong with these guys.
Steam | Live
I've read that vdroop is more motherboard-specific and not necessarily dependant on the power supply. Of course, a quality power supply will undoubtedly prevent many future headaches. The Corsair HX520 and 620 were getting all the praise last year when I built my rig, not sure if there are any new champs.
Pin mod for the Q6600 G0 is one of the easiest overclocks around. You just need a bit of electrical tape and an exacto knife.
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=58361
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=132900
Cut off a tiny piece of electrical tape, cover the BSEL2 pin on the processor, and voila! - FSB bumps from 1066MHz to 1333MHz, moving the chip from 2.4GHz to 3.0GHz.
You can OC higher through traditional methods, but this one is pretty much set and forget. You don't need to play around with voltages or anything, making it useful for the less OC-friendly mobos out there, even the stock Dell/HP stuff.
Quads have a MUCH higher TDP. Which means you need much better cooling to disipate the heat, it also means the max OC is much less. OC'ing a q6600 on top end air or mid end water to 3.0 is standard, 3.6 requires either a good chip or high end water. Now, OC'ing an E6850 or E8400 to well past 4.0ghz is stupidly simple. Since most games and applications are not multithreaded, the faster clock with less cores is going to trounce the quadcore by a large margin.
Going beyond this many mobos PWM (the part that gives the CPU power) aren't up for quadcore OC's. So even if you cool it well enough, the mobo might give out over time. nvidia chipsets (680i mainly) are famous for this.
So yes he is right, given the circumstances.
A big PSU is a must for any high performance rig. But you're not going to get a better OC by migrating from a quality 750w PSU to a 1kw PSU.
Fans relate to air flow and are a must regardless, a better heatsink always helps. The current king is the thermalright ultra 120 extreme for air.
Great for many things, but XS xtremesystems is better for OC advice.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
For starters since the Q6600 is not an "extreme" chip, you can't raise the MP. So you're stuck with stock MP and must do it through FSB.
For a second, some boards do offer out of BIOS OC options, but you shouldn't use them at any cost. They tend to create problems.
You're main worries are going to be vcore, vnb, vdimm. IE raising voltages to make sure that OC is stable. That's impossible to predict because all silicon isn't the same. I can make some rough guesses if you have a fixed mobo/ram/cpu already. But in general you want to buy memory rated at the FSB speed you want to OC to.
As a side note (and barring the stupidity of nvidia chipsets for intel) raising voltages is where the temps really ramp up and you get forced into exotic cooling, and that's also where having to set everything manually in BIOS comes into play. IE my memory is rated CAS4 2T at 2.1v, but to get my OC I had to go to CAS4 2t at 2.3v... the jump from ddr2800 to ddr21066. Massive gains, but lesser memory will fry at that voltage.
I'm also going to take a leap into the dark side and state that a higher OC with worse memory latency can be counter productive. Ideally you want cas4 at DDR2 800, or C5 at 1066 (and this is for first time OC'ers', yes you can push it farther). The first translates into a 1600 FSB, and FSB matters as much as CPU speed.
For a quick Q6600 OC I'd go with this mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127030
Here's why.... short of SLI going nvidia chipset is stupid. To problematic, crap OC's, runs hot as hell. P35 is pretty bullet proof and OC's like a god, this one is good bang-for-the-buck, and a top end one at that.
For memory, you want this speed rating
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010170147+1052420643&name=DDR2+1066+(PC2+8500)
I'd pick the corsair, ocz, or gskill IMHO. Better quality parts and tend to use micron D9 based IC's which OC better. But you can't really go wrong with any of the three.