THE FOLLOWING IS MY OPINION. IF YOU DISAGREE, THAT'S FINE!!
Battle.net is already riddled with fucktards... But there are MANY more fucktards in WoW. You can argue that point all you want with me, but I have met way too many douchebags in WoW for me to ever go back to that.
That and Diablo 2 lasted me YEARS without paying an extra dime, and saving me tons of money. If it's an MMO I'll have to pay the monthly payment, thus not saving me as much money.
Lastly, every MMO has an "end game" which consists of raiding. I will tell anyone to their face that I FUCKING. Hate. Raids. Having to schedule my time around a video game is nonsense... Getting booted out of a guild because I don't show up one night is bullshit. And that kind of thing brings too much fucking drama for a video game.
I once spent an entire fucking hour standing around while these three people bitched about who should roll for these gloves. You know what happened in the end? The entire fucking guild collapsed. That was the last straw. I quit WoW and swore I would never raid in anything BUT Realm vs. Realm in Dark Age of Camelot.
I'm gonna start by saying that I agree with what you say, but it also looks to me like you were just in some crappy guilds. I had some guilds that made the game a lot of fun and we would make up our own "end-game" to have fun. Seeing who can run furthest naked in Iron Forge (we were horde) without dying. Stuff like that. We would put gold on it or the next epic drop in a raid we do or something like that. Stupid stuff to make it fun.
But my problem with Diablo 2 and the reason I quit and can't play it ever again is how it's not the same game it was when I started playing. The game used to be fun. You create a character at level 1 and go through each act while leveling. There was no rushing. You wouldn't see a level 7 in Act 4 of Hell (this is before LoD) ever unless it was someone's trading mule so they could join hell trade games.
Prior to LoD getting to level 99 was an actual accomplishment. I remember prior to the expansion pack my highest character was a level 87 WW lance Barbarian. Prior to LoD rares were the best weapons, and not everyone had the same equipment because of this. After LoD uniques and runewords and what not where the best items, so this caused people to dupe the shit out of them and what not.
Any problem you find with an WoW you can find an equally annoying problem with Diablo 2.
In any case, I'm not saying you're wrong, Urahonky. But no matter what Diablo 3 is, I will only play with friends and hope that the problems that Diablo 2 had Diablo 3 doesn't have - should it not be an MMO.
I hope diablo 3 is an MMO and I hope it is as good as WoW.
There we go, I said it.
Freakinchair on
I'd construct a situation such that everyone died at the exact same moment so that we could attack whatever afterlife there happens to be en masse and so take it over and create a perfect unending afterlife existence. Also, everyone who wanted one would have an afterlife pony.
THE FOLLOWING IS MY OPINION. IF YOU DISAGREE, THAT'S FINE!!
Battle.net is already riddled with fucktards... But there are MANY more fucktards in WoW. You can argue that point all you want with me, but I have met way too many douchebags in WoW for me to ever go back to that.
That and Diablo 2 lasted me YEARS without paying an extra dime, and saving me tons of money. If it's an MMO I'll have to pay the monthly payment, thus not saving me as much money.
Lastly, every MMO has an "end game" which consists of raiding. I will tell anyone to their face that I FUCKING. Hate. Raids. Having to schedule my time around a video game is nonsense... Getting booted out of a guild because I don't show up one night is bullshit. And that kind of thing brings too much fucking drama for a video game.
I once spent an entire fucking hour standing around while these three people bitched about who should roll for these gloves. You know what happened in the end? The entire fucking guild collapsed. That was the last straw. I quit WoW and swore I would never raid in anything BUT Realm vs. Realm in Dark Age of Camelot.
I'm gonna start by saying that I agree with what you say, but it also looks to me like you were just in some crappy guilds. I had some guilds that made the game a lot of fun and we would make up our own "end-game" to have fun. Seeing who can run furthest naked in Iron Forge (we were horde) without dying. Stuff like that. We would put gold on it or the next epic drop in a raid we do or something like that. Stupid stuff to make it fun.
But my problem with Diablo 2 and the reason I quit and can't play it ever again is how it's not the same game it was when I started playing. The game used to be fun. You create a character at level 1 and go through each act while leveling. There was no rushing. You wouldn't see a level 7 in Act 4 of Hell (this is before LoD) ever unless it was someone's trading mule so they could join hell trade games.
Prior to LoD getting to level 99 was an actual accomplishment. I remember prior to the expansion pack my highest character was a level 87 WW lance Barbarian. Prior to LoD rares were the best weapons, and not everyone had the same equipment because of this. After LoD uniques and runewords and what not where the best items, so this caused people to dupe the shit out of them and what not.
Any problem you find with an WoW you can find an equally annoying problem with Diablo 2.
In any case, I'm not saying you're wrong, Urahonky. But no matter what Diablo 3 is, I will only play with friends and hope that the problems that Diablo 2 had Diablo 3 doesn't have - should it not be an MMO.
I dunno. Setting my life schedule around raids is bullshit. I never had to do that with Diablo 2. I just logged in, killed some demons and then got off. With WoW you log in, have to wait for 19 other people to log in, you have to make sure you're the PERFECT spec for the raid, you have to be sure you're connected to vent/team speak.
I don't want a fucking video game to become a second job. I have school for that.
I hope diablo 3 is an MMO and I hope it is as good as WoW.
There we go, I said it.
I hope you die in a fire holding a can of gasoline.
There, I said it.
...falling down stairs, choking on glass.
I kid, I kid.
Here is what I hope: that the minds at Blizzard wow me with a new IP's MMO. One where the lore won't be consistently confusing, and the races and classes haven't been done to death. Maybe it'll be a genre they haven't touched, like steam-punk or post apocalyptic. I hope that they actually increase the worlds they have beyond what we've come to expect from them.
If Diablo 3 is an MMO I will throw a bag of kittens down a flight of stairs.
But really ... I don't want Blizzard to be the company that just turns all their existing franchises into MMOs. This is compounded by the fact that I really liked Diablo 2 and have absolutely in interest in WoW. It isn't that they can't be fun, it just feels ... wrong. Especially for Diablo.
THE FOLLOWING IS MY OPINION. IF YOU DISAGREE, THAT'S FINE!!
Battle.net is already riddled with fucktards... But there are MANY more fucktards in WoW. You can argue that point all you want with me, but I have met way too many douchebags in WoW for me to ever go back to that.
That and Diablo 2 lasted me YEARS without paying an extra dime, and saving me tons of money. If it's an MMO I'll have to pay the monthly payment, thus not saving me as much money.
Lastly, every MMO has an "end game" which consists of raiding. I will tell anyone to their face that I FUCKING. Hate. Raids. Having to schedule my time around a video game is nonsense... Getting booted out of a guild because I don't show up one night is bullshit. And that kind of thing brings too much fucking drama for a video game.
I once spent an entire fucking hour standing around while these three people bitched about who should roll for these gloves. You know what happened in the end? The entire fucking guild collapsed. That was the last straw. I quit WoW and swore I would never raid in anything BUT Realm vs. Realm in Dark Age of Camelot.
I'm gonna start by saying that I agree with what you say, but it also looks to me like you were just in some crappy guilds. I had some guilds that made the game a lot of fun and we would make up our own "end-game" to have fun. Seeing who can run furthest naked in Iron Forge (we were horde) without dying. Stuff like that. We would put gold on it or the next epic drop in a raid we do or something like that. Stupid stuff to make it fun.
But my problem with Diablo 2 and the reason I quit and can't play it ever again is how it's not the same game it was when I started playing. The game used to be fun. You create a character at level 1 and go through each act while leveling. There was no rushing. You wouldn't see a level 7 in Act 4 of Hell (this is before LoD) ever unless it was someone's trading mule so they could join hell trade games.
Prior to LoD getting to level 99 was an actual accomplishment. I remember prior to the expansion pack my highest character was a level 87 WW lance Barbarian. Prior to LoD rares were the best weapons, and not everyone had the same equipment because of this. After LoD uniques and runewords and what not where the best items, so this caused people to dupe the shit out of them and what not.
Any problem you find with an WoW you can find an equally annoying problem with Diablo 2.
In any case, I'm not saying you're wrong, Urahonky. But no matter what Diablo 3 is, I will only play with friends and hope that the problems that Diablo 2 had Diablo 3 doesn't have - should it not be an MMO.
I dunno. Setting my life schedule around raids is bullshit. I never had to do that with Diablo 2. I just logged in, killed some demons and then got off. With WoW you log in, have to wait for 19 other people to log in, you have to make sure you're the PERFECT spec for the raid, you have to be sure you're connected to vent/team speak.
I don't want a fucking video game to become a second job. I have school for that.
So don't raid? There's tons of shit you can be doing in WoW besides just raiding.
The only thing I think Diablo needs retuned is how loot is dropped/distributed. Various super uniques should have a set loot pool of x to y drops instead of option to drop up to itemlvl = to mob level x or w/e D2 uses. This way it offers a mock raiding on specific mobs / areas to complete what you want, instead of doing 100s of mind-numbing pindleskin runs to end up with 25 immortal king helms and having b.net lock you out of your account from logging in / out too fast. I guess they sorta did that with the keys and chaos tristram, so more of that prz.
And of course at this stage it'll be safe to say that normal loot in a co-op game would drop like it does in WoW you can only see your drops and visa versa to avoid assclowns running around scooping everything up and not asking you if you needed it.
Also above all else, trim off the fat of the hugeeeeeeeeeeee item lists. The 18 different types of polearms and 1 handed swords is unnecessary. I'm all for the exceptional and elite system, just not so many different types of the same crap.
THE FOLLOWING IS MY OPINION. IF YOU DISAGREE, THAT'S FINE!!
Battle.net is already riddled with fucktards... But there are MANY more fucktards in WoW. You can argue that point all you want with me, but I have met way too many douchebags in WoW for me to ever go back to that.
That and Diablo 2 lasted me YEARS without paying an extra dime, and saving me tons of money. If it's an MMO I'll have to pay the monthly payment, thus not saving me as much money.
Lastly, every MMO has an "end game" which consists of raiding. I will tell anyone to their face that I FUCKING. Hate. Raids. Having to schedule my time around a video game is nonsense... Getting booted out of a guild because I don't show up one night is bullshit. And that kind of thing brings too much fucking drama for a video game.
I once spent an entire fucking hour standing around while these three people bitched about who should roll for these gloves. You know what happened in the end? The entire fucking guild collapsed. That was the last straw. I quit WoW and swore I would never raid in anything BUT Realm vs. Realm in Dark Age of Camelot.
I'm gonna start by saying that I agree with what you say, but it also looks to me like you were just in some crappy guilds. I had some guilds that made the game a lot of fun and we would make up our own "end-game" to have fun. Seeing who can run furthest naked in Iron Forge (we were horde) without dying. Stuff like that. We would put gold on it or the next epic drop in a raid we do or something like that. Stupid stuff to make it fun.
But my problem with Diablo 2 and the reason I quit and can't play it ever again is how it's not the same game it was when I started playing. The game used to be fun. You create a character at level 1 and go through each act while leveling. There was no rushing. You wouldn't see a level 7 in Act 4 of Hell (this is before LoD) ever unless it was someone's trading mule so they could join hell trade games.
Prior to LoD getting to level 99 was an actual accomplishment. I remember prior to the expansion pack my highest character was a level 87 WW lance Barbarian. Prior to LoD rares were the best weapons, and not everyone had the same equipment because of this. After LoD uniques and runewords and what not where the best items, so this caused people to dupe the shit out of them and what not.
Any problem you find with an WoW you can find an equally annoying problem with Diablo 2.
In any case, I'm not saying you're wrong, Urahonky. But no matter what Diablo 3 is, I will only play with friends and hope that the problems that Diablo 2 had Diablo 3 doesn't have - should it not be an MMO.
I dunno. Setting my life schedule around raids is bullshit. I never had to do that with Diablo 2. I just logged in, killed some demons and then got off. With WoW you log in, have to wait for 19 other people to log in, you have to make sure you're the PERFECT spec for the raid, you have to be sure you're connected to vent/team speak.
I don't want a fucking video game to become a second job. I have school for that.
So don't raid? There's tons of shit you can be doing in WoW besides just raiding.
Please tell me what else there is to do at endgame.
THE FOLLOWING IS MY OPINION. IF YOU DISAGREE, THAT'S FINE!!
Battle.net is already riddled with fucktards... But there are MANY more fucktards in WoW. You can argue that point all you want with me, but I have met way too many douchebags in WoW for me to ever go back to that.
That and Diablo 2 lasted me YEARS without paying an extra dime, and saving me tons of money. If it's an MMO I'll have to pay the monthly payment, thus not saving me as much money.
Lastly, every MMO has an "end game" which consists of raiding. I will tell anyone to their face that I FUCKING. Hate. Raids. Having to schedule my time around a video game is nonsense... Getting booted out of a guild because I don't show up one night is bullshit. And that kind of thing brings too much fucking drama for a video game.
I once spent an entire fucking hour standing around while these three people bitched about who should roll for these gloves. You know what happened in the end? The entire fucking guild collapsed. That was the last straw. I quit WoW and swore I would never raid in anything BUT Realm vs. Realm in Dark Age of Camelot.
I'm gonna start by saying that I agree with what you say, but it also looks to me like you were just in some crappy guilds. I had some guilds that made the game a lot of fun and we would make up our own "end-game" to have fun. Seeing who can run furthest naked in Iron Forge (we were horde) without dying. Stuff like that. We would put gold on it or the next epic drop in a raid we do or something like that. Stupid stuff to make it fun.
But my problem with Diablo 2 and the reason I quit and can't play it ever again is how it's not the same game it was when I started playing. The game used to be fun. You create a character at level 1 and go through each act while leveling. There was no rushing. You wouldn't see a level 7 in Act 4 of Hell (this is before LoD) ever unless it was someone's trading mule so they could join hell trade games.
Prior to LoD getting to level 99 was an actual accomplishment. I remember prior to the expansion pack my highest character was a level 87 WW lance Barbarian. Prior to LoD rares were the best weapons, and not everyone had the same equipment because of this. After LoD uniques and runewords and what not where the best items, so this caused people to dupe the shit out of them and what not.
Any problem you find with an WoW you can find an equally annoying problem with Diablo 2.
In any case, I'm not saying you're wrong, Urahonky. But no matter what Diablo 3 is, I will only play with friends and hope that the problems that Diablo 2 had Diablo 3 doesn't have - should it not be an MMO.
I dunno. Setting my life schedule around raids is bullshit. I never had to do that with Diablo 2. I just logged in, killed some demons and then got off. With WoW you log in, have to wait for 19 other people to log in, you have to make sure you're the PERFECT spec for the raid, you have to be sure you're connected to vent/team speak.
I don't want a fucking video game to become a second job. I have school for that.
So don't raid? There's tons of shit you can be doing in WoW besides just raiding.
Please tell me what else there is to do at endgame.
Run Battlegrounds
Level an alt
Make a twink
Run heroics
Run dailies to farm for an epic mount
Just gank people who are doing their dailies
Grief people (ie, Mind Control + Cliffs)
Try to organize a major city raid (or just join one; we have a fair number on Executus)
Or just look for a good guild that's fun to run things with. It seems to me that the majority of your problem with the game is that you joined really shitty guilds. I find the smaller guilds that don't have insane ambitions about downing Illidan provide some of the best WoW experiences.
Urahonky, I'll give you that. Raiding is stupid if you hae to plan around it. Usually I would just be on with other guildies and we'd be like, "Wanna raid blah blah blah?" There you go, raid scheduled in 5 minutes. It really just depends on if you get in a guild that's full of like minded people.
Also, I never cared much for raiding so I did a lot of PVP as well as farming quests. They got boring after a while, but just like doing 100s of Meph, Diablo, and Baal runs.
THE FOLLOWING IS MY OPINION. IF YOU DISAGREE, THAT'S FINE!!
Battle.net is already riddled with fucktards... But there are MANY more fucktards in WoW. You can argue that point all you want with me, but I have met way too many douchebags in WoW for me to ever go back to that.
That and Diablo 2 lasted me YEARS without paying an extra dime, and saving me tons of money. If it's an MMO I'll have to pay the monthly payment, thus not saving me as much money.
Lastly, every MMO has an "end game" which consists of raiding. I will tell anyone to their face that I FUCKING. Hate. Raids. Having to schedule my time around a video game is nonsense... Getting booted out of a guild because I don't show up one night is bullshit. And that kind of thing brings too much fucking drama for a video game.
I once spent an entire fucking hour standing around while these three people bitched about who should roll for these gloves. You know what happened in the end? The entire fucking guild collapsed. That was the last straw. I quit WoW and swore I would never raid in anything BUT Realm vs. Realm in Dark Age of Camelot.
I'm gonna start by saying that I agree with what you say, but it also looks to me like you were just in some crappy guilds. I had some guilds that made the game a lot of fun and we would make up our own "end-game" to have fun. Seeing who can run furthest naked in Iron Forge (we were horde) without dying. Stuff like that. We would put gold on it or the next epic drop in a raid we do or something like that. Stupid stuff to make it fun.
But my problem with Diablo 2 and the reason I quit and can't play it ever again is how it's not the same game it was when I started playing. The game used to be fun. You create a character at level 1 and go through each act while leveling. There was no rushing. You wouldn't see a level 7 in Act 4 of Hell (this is before LoD) ever unless it was someone's trading mule so they could join hell trade games.
Prior to LoD getting to level 99 was an actual accomplishment. I remember prior to the expansion pack my highest character was a level 87 WW lance Barbarian. Prior to LoD rares were the best weapons, and not everyone had the same equipment because of this. After LoD uniques and runewords and what not where the best items, so this caused people to dupe the shit out of them and what not.
Any problem you find with an WoW you can find an equally annoying problem with Diablo 2.
In any case, I'm not saying you're wrong, Urahonky. But no matter what Diablo 3 is, I will only play with friends and hope that the problems that Diablo 2 had Diablo 3 doesn't have - should it not be an MMO.
I dunno. Setting my life schedule around raids is bullshit. I never had to do that with Diablo 2. I just logged in, killed some demons and then got off. With WoW you log in, have to wait for 19 other people to log in, you have to make sure you're the PERFECT spec for the raid, you have to be sure you're connected to vent/team speak.
I don't want a fucking video game to become a second job. I have school for that.
So don't raid? There's tons of shit you can be doing in WoW besides just raiding.
Please tell me what else there is to do at endgame.
Run Battlegrounds
Level an alt
Make a twink
Run heroics
Run dailies to farm for an epic mount
Just gank people who are doing their dailies
Grief people (ie, Mind Control + Cliffs)
Try to organize a major city raid (or just join one; we have a fair number on Executus)
Or just look for a good guild that's fun to run things with. It seems to me that the majority of your problem with the game is that you joined really shitty guilds. I find the smaller guilds that don't have insane ambitions about downing Illidan provide some of the best WoW experiences.
I'm not saying you're wrong Evangir, because you're an awesome person (Plus your avatar wins) but these are my responses:
Run Battlegrounds (If you don't have the gear, you'll be running BGs for days/weeks/months to get anything good. It's not fun as alliance because we always seem to get raped)
Level an alt (To do the same thing in the end: raid)
Make a twink (You need money and patience to run instances to do this)
Run heroics (No clue what this is)
Run dailies to farm for an epic mount (Epic mount does nothing but increase running speed, no real reason to)
Just gank people who are doing their dailies (I'll give you that, but ganking people can only be SO fun until they camp your corpse because you need to raid to get good lewt)
Grief people (ie, Mind Control + Cliffs) (I did enjoy this, but again, like above, it can only be fun for so long)
Try to organize a major city raid (or just join one; we have a fair number on Executus) (The ones I've been on last at most 10 minutes before we're all wiped.)
THE FOLLOWING IS MY OPINION. IF YOU DISAGREE, THAT'S FINE!!
Battle.net is already riddled with fucktards... But there are MANY more fucktards in WoW. You can argue that point all you want with me, but I have met way too many douchebags in WoW for me to ever go back to that.
That and Diablo 2 lasted me YEARS without paying an extra dime, and saving me tons of money. If it's an MMO I'll have to pay the monthly payment, thus not saving me as much money.
Lastly, every MMO has an "end game" which consists of raiding. I will tell anyone to their face that I FUCKING. Hate. Raids. Having to schedule my time around a video game is nonsense... Getting booted out of a guild because I don't show up one night is bullshit. And that kind of thing brings too much fucking drama for a video game.
I once spent an entire fucking hour standing around while these three people bitched about who should roll for these gloves. You know what happened in the end? The entire fucking guild collapsed. That was the last straw. I quit WoW and swore I would never raid in anything BUT Realm vs. Realm in Dark Age of Camelot.
I'm gonna start by saying that I agree with what you say, but it also looks to me like you were just in some crappy guilds. I had some guilds that made the game a lot of fun and we would make up our own "end-game" to have fun. Seeing who can run furthest naked in Iron Forge (we were horde) without dying. Stuff like that. We would put gold on it or the next epic drop in a raid we do or something like that. Stupid stuff to make it fun.
But my problem with Diablo 2 and the reason I quit and can't play it ever again is how it's not the same game it was when I started playing. The game used to be fun. You create a character at level 1 and go through each act while leveling. There was no rushing. You wouldn't see a level 7 in Act 4 of Hell (this is before LoD) ever unless it was someone's trading mule so they could join hell trade games.
Prior to LoD getting to level 99 was an actual accomplishment. I remember prior to the expansion pack my highest character was a level 87 WW lance Barbarian. Prior to LoD rares were the best weapons, and not everyone had the same equipment because of this. After LoD uniques and runewords and what not where the best items, so this caused people to dupe the shit out of them and what not.
Any problem you find with an WoW you can find an equally annoying problem with Diablo 2.
In any case, I'm not saying you're wrong, Urahonky. But no matter what Diablo 3 is, I will only play with friends and hope that the problems that Diablo 2 had Diablo 3 doesn't have - should it not be an MMO.
I dunno. Setting my life schedule around raids is bullshit. I never had to do that with Diablo 2. I just logged in, killed some demons and then got off. With WoW you log in, have to wait for 19 other people to log in, you have to make sure you're the PERFECT spec for the raid, you have to be sure you're connected to vent/team speak.
I don't want a fucking video game to become a second job. I have school for that.
So don't raid? There's tons of shit you can be doing in WoW besides just raiding.
Please tell me what else there is to do at endgame.
Run Battlegrounds
Level an alt
Make a twink
Run heroics
Run dailies to farm for an epic mount
Just gank people who are doing their dailies
Grief people (ie, Mind Control + Cliffs)
Try to organize a major city raid (or just join one; we have a fair number on Executus)
Or just look for a good guild that's fun to run things with. It seems to me that the majority of your problem with the game is that you joined really shitty guilds. I find the smaller guilds that don't have insane ambitions about downing Illidan provide some of the best WoW experiences.
I'm not saying you're wrong Evangir, because you're an awesome person (Plus your avatar wins) but these are my responses:
Run Battlegrounds (If you don't have the gear, you'll be running BGs for days/weeks/months to get anything good. It's not fun as alliance because we always seem to get raped)
Level an alt (To do the same thing in the end: raid)
Make a twink (You need money and patience to run instances to do this)
Run heroics (No clue what this is)
Run dailies to farm for an epic mount (Epic mount does nothing but increase running speed, no real reason to)
Just gank people who are doing their dailies (I'll give you that, but ganking people can only be SO fun until they camp your corpse because you need to raid to get good lewt)
Grief people (ie, Mind Control + Cliffs) (I did enjoy this, but again, like above, it can only be fun for so long)
Try to organize a major city raid (or just join one; we have a fair number on Executus) (The ones I've been on last at most 10 minutes before we're all wiped.)
Given your responses, you've been out of the game for a long time, or just haven't been at 70 longer than a day or two. They've made significant changes.
Heroics are more difficult versions of TBC instances. They're extremely fun if you can find a decent group (particularly Magister's Terrace on my Shadow Priest).
Twinks require a lot more money than they require instance running.
Epic flying mounts are amazing. You don't know what you're missing.
And raiding gear is terrible for PVP, except in certain cases (for instance, high level arena rogues and warriors often swap in some PVE DPS gear, as they are not targeted first as often).
Also, starter PVP gear is now purchaseable; You need Honoured reputation with 5 factions (which you can easily get while levelling, without doing any grinding) to buy their blue gear for a low price (probably about 100g for the whole 5-piece set; about 1 day worth of dailies). You can also buy the Season 1 Bracers/Boots/Belt for Badges of Justice. You'll be all set to start PVPing effectively.
That may all be true, but they all end up doing the same thing for me, unfortunately. It's all about getting the best gear. PvPing wasn't ever really fun for me unless I was on Horde side because they actually worked together and won. Unfortunately I absolutely HATE the Horde side terrain.
Heroics sounds like it's just added raids that are a little more difficult.
Epic flying mounts only work in the expansion zone, no?
That may all be true, but they all end up doing the same thing for me, unfortunately. It's all about getting the best gear. PvPing wasn't ever really fun for me unless I was on Horde side because they actually worked together and won. Unfortunately I absolutely HATE the Horde side terrain.
Heroics sounds like it's just added raids that are a little more difficult.
Epic flying mounts only work in the expansion zone, no?
I'm not sure how it is on your battlegroup, but I see about a 50/50 split as far as win/loss goes. The best strategy seems to be to find a buddy or two and queue for BGs. Even if you lose, you'll have a ton of fun.
Heroics are not raids. They're quick 5-man instances that you can put together in 10 minutes. Faster if you have a good small guild.
And epic flyers only work in the expansion zone, yes, but there's almost no reason to return to the old world anyway, so... Yeah. Plus, Blizzard is apparently trying to make them work in the new zone come WOLTK.
Edit: I'd keep discussing this, but I have to run to work. If you ever get bored and want to reroll Horde-side, get on the server Executus and send a message to Rhok or Airae. I can help you with some starting gold or stuff like that :P
I'll keep that in mind Evangir. :P Thanks, enjoy work sir.
I just always start out feeling like I'm going to have a blast in the game... Then it wanes about a week later, then a few days after that I stop playing and eventually quit. I wish I could sell my account, but it'll stay there. Haunting me... Laughing at all the classes I failed/dropped in college because of it.
I agree with urahonky. I found the end game of WoW is kind of lacking. I played on one of the larger PVP servers right off the bat and had an amazing time going from level 1 to 60 in a great guild with lots of really skilled players. Then at 60 we basically realized as a guild that doing end game content would either mean merging with 3 or 4 other similarly sized guilds, or that we could watch a regular turnover of our level 60 players (who after all were skilled and up to this point had been all about helping each other get the best gear at our levels to help kick ass at pvp, which was a big part of the server) to other guilds.
Nice to know a guild that's not big enough to raid just gets lumped into the 'shitty guilds' category, apparently.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who hates the idea of having to team up with so many people to do something in a game. Just to point out another reason someone might not want a game to be an MMO, not a strike against WoW as group-doing-things is just part of the MMO formula.
I agree with urahonky. I found the end game of WoW is kind of lacking. I played on one of the larger PVP servers right off the bat and had an amazing time going from level 1 to 60 in a great guild with lots of really skilled players. Then at 60 we basically realized as a guild that doing end game content would either mean merging with 3 or 4 other similarly sized guilds, or that we could watch a regular turnover of our level 60 players (who after all were skilled and up to this point had been all about helping each other get the best gear at our levels to help kick ass at pvp, which was a big part of the server) to other guilds.
Nice to know a guild that's not big enough to raid just gets lumped into the 'shitty guilds' category, apparently.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who hates the idea of having to team up with so many people to do something in a game. Just to point out another reason someone might not want a game to be an MMO, not a strike against WoW as group-doing-things is just part of the MMO formula.
Yeah I'm not saying WoW is terrible. Most MMOs are plagued with the problem that I have with them (the only one I really, really enjoy is DAoC but only because the RvR keeps things dynamic. I could log into my server one day and find out that Albion is raiding our relic keep, and, no matter what level you are, you have a duty to go out there and fight for your realm).
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Nice to know a guild that's not big enough to raid just gets lumped into the 'shitty guilds' category, apparently.
Who said that?
At any rate, that's not right. My guild is about 8 or 10 people strong and we did raids just fine. Even organized 25 man raids with friendly guilds.
In fact, our regular Kara raids included 3 people from other guilds that came with us every week. There are fallacies about raiding that seem to be accepted as truth: 1, that you need to be a bunch of arrogant fucks to raid successfully and 2, that you need to be a big guild. I've seen those proven wrong again and again.
Raiding isn't the problem. Blizzard needs to fire whoever did most of ssc/tk and give the guys who did BT/MH much more free room. BT/MH are really that more amazing, and very fun raids.
Nice to know a guild that's not big enough to raid just gets lumped into the 'shitty guilds' category, apparently.
Who said that?
I guess I read it between the lines every time someone said 'sounds like you're in a shitty guild!' to someone talking about the problems with WoW end-game.
At any rate, that's not right. My guild is about 8 or 10 people strong and we did raids just fine. Even organized 25 man raids with friendly guilds.
Well, great if that's possible for you. I played on Tichondrius. Before going live it was the beta server, after going live it attracted the most pvp-intense guilds, no doubt partially because it also had both the blizzard employee 'unofficial' guild and all their tag-along groups (friends or otherwise). Joining some big guilds raid group? Please, what a laugh, why would a big competing guild want to share loot and raid space with non-guildies? Pick-up? Obviously the game MUST have changed drastically, because that was never going to happen on Tich.
In fact, our regular Kara raids included 3 people from other guilds that came with us every week. There are fallacies about raiding that seem to be accepted as truth: 1, that you need to be a bunch of arrogant fucks to raid successfully and 2, that you need to be a big guild. I've seen those proven wrong again and again.
Well, the game wasn't like this when I played it at all, and such a thing as a 'kara raid' didn't exist. If it's fixed, great, but the end game was broken and boring when I played it. From the sounds of it the new end game lets you raid in smaller (MUCH smaller... 8 to 10 guys?) than the old end game did. If it's fixed, great, but that doesn't change how broken it was when I played.
Nice to know a guild that's not big enough to raid just gets lumped into the 'shitty guilds' category, apparently.
Who said that?
I guess I read it between the lines every time someone said 'sounds like you're in a shitty guild!' to someone talking about the problems with WoW end-game.
At any rate, that's not right. My guild is about 8 or 10 people strong and we did raids just fine. Even organized 25 man raids with friendly guilds.
Well, great if that's possible for you. I played on Tichondrius. Before going live it was the beta server, after going live it attracted the most pvp-intense guilds, no doubt partially because it also had both the blizzard employee 'unofficial' guild and all their tag-along groups (friends or otherwise). Joining some big guilds raid group? Please, what a laugh, why would a big competing guild want to share loot and raid space with non-guildies? Pick-up? Obviously the game MUST have changed drastically, because that was never going to happen on Tich.
You played on Tich? Were you Horde or Alliance?
There's nothing better than 'Kara' stuff end game? No end game that needs fifty guys or any stupid shit like that and drops loot that makes Kara stuff look like paper mâché? Good changes if so.
The old pre-expansion end-games raids were 20 people for the small ones (Zul'gurrub, Ruins of Ahn'quraj) and 40 for the big ones (Molten Core, Onyxia, Blackwing Lair, Temple of Ahn-Quraj, Naxxramas.) (Plus a few outdoor encounters including the 4 Dragons of Nightmare, Azuragos and Lord Kazzak)
They changed those numbers to 10 (Karazhan, Zulaman) and 25 (Magtheridan's Lair, Seperpentshrine Cavern, Gruul's Lair, The Eye, Hyjal Summit, Blak Temple, Sunwell Plateau) for the expansion raids. (Plus, again, a few outdoor encounters, including a beefed up Lord Kazzak and a really nasty Fel Reaver named Doom Walker.)
Diablo 3 is actually just going to be a WoW raid. You can't buy it unless you can get 24 friends to all go to the store and get it at the same time. Oh, and when you get there the line will be at least two hours long.
Diablo 3 is actually just going to be a WoW raid. You can't buy it unless you can get 24 friends to all go to the store and get it at the same time. Oh, and when you get there the line will be at least two hours long.
What's the drop rate for Diablo 3 on the end boss?
That's harder to solo because of the ridiculous elite guards that patrol the city. If you've got a decently geared group that can handle them when they come by then yea you could probably farm the rep there. They also drop games occasionally, so turn those in for little boosts.
So I gather the Diablo 3.com announcement has something to do with WoW raids?
I only read the last page of posts....
This thread is teeming with people who want Diablo 3 to be an MMO/think its anything like an MMO/think its like guild wars.
Do the math.
I'd be perfectly fine with a game that uses a spectacular looking 3d engine like Titan Quest, zoomed out to an overhead/isometric camera. Except that Titan Quest isn't as good as D2, and just makes you want to play D2 instead.
Didn't Blizzard specifically say they were not ever going to make Diablo 3? I understand it's inevitable, but I'm pretty sure they said that at one point.
EDIT: After some looking, I think I just misunderstood when they said after LoD that they weren't planning on D3 anytime soon.
I suffered the same fate. .. in fact, I think you told me that - But now we are all the more excited!
Nice to know a guild that's not big enough to raid just gets lumped into the 'shitty guilds' category, apparently.
Who said that?
I guess I read it between the lines every time someone said 'sounds like you're in a shitty guild!' to someone talking about the problems with WoW end-game.
At any rate, that's not right. My guild is about 8 or 10 people strong and we did raids just fine. Even organized 25 man raids with friendly guilds.
Well, great if that's possible for you. I played on Tichondrius. Before going live it was the beta server, after going live it attracted the most pvp-intense guilds, no doubt partially because it also had both the blizzard employee 'unofficial' guild and all their tag-along groups (friends or otherwise). Joining some big guilds raid group? Please, what a laugh, why would a big competing guild want to share loot and raid space with non-guildies? Pick-up? Obviously the game MUST have changed drastically, because that was never going to happen on Tich.
The old pre-expansion end-games raids were 20 people for the small ones (Zul'gurrub, Ruins of Ahn'quraj) and 40 for the big ones (Molten Core, Onyxia, Blackwing Lair, Temple of Ahn-Quraj, Naxxramas.) (Plus a few outdoor encounters including the 4 Dragons of Nightmare, Azuragos and Lord Kazzak)
They changed those numbers to 10 (Karazhan, Zulaman) and 25 (Magtheridan's Lair, Seperpentshrine Cavern, Gruul's Lair, The Eye, Hyjal Summit, Blak Temple, Sunwell Plateau) for the expansion raids. (Plus, again, a few outdoor encounters, including a beefed up Lord Kazzak and a really nasty Fel Reaver named Doom Walker.)
A long long time ago... back in the early days, there were no 20 man raids, it was 40 or go to hell. Those were the days...
Posts
I'm gonna start by saying that I agree with what you say, but it also looks to me like you were just in some crappy guilds. I had some guilds that made the game a lot of fun and we would make up our own "end-game" to have fun. Seeing who can run furthest naked in Iron Forge (we were horde) without dying. Stuff like that. We would put gold on it or the next epic drop in a raid we do or something like that. Stupid stuff to make it fun.
But my problem with Diablo 2 and the reason I quit and can't play it ever again is how it's not the same game it was when I started playing. The game used to be fun. You create a character at level 1 and go through each act while leveling. There was no rushing. You wouldn't see a level 7 in Act 4 of Hell (this is before LoD) ever unless it was someone's trading mule so they could join hell trade games.
Prior to LoD getting to level 99 was an actual accomplishment. I remember prior to the expansion pack my highest character was a level 87 WW lance Barbarian. Prior to LoD rares were the best weapons, and not everyone had the same equipment because of this. After LoD uniques and runewords and what not where the best items, so this caused people to dupe the shit out of them and what not.
Any problem you find with an WoW you can find an equally annoying problem with Diablo 2.
In any case, I'm not saying you're wrong, Urahonky. But no matter what Diablo 3 is, I will only play with friends and hope that the problems that Diablo 2 had Diablo 3 doesn't have - should it not be an MMO.
I hope diablo 3 is an MMO and I hope it is as good as WoW.
There we go, I said it.
I hope you die in a fire holding a can of gasoline.
There, I said it.
I dunno. Setting my life schedule around raids is bullshit. I never had to do that with Diablo 2. I just logged in, killed some demons and then got off. With WoW you log in, have to wait for 19 other people to log in, you have to make sure you're the PERFECT spec for the raid, you have to be sure you're connected to vent/team speak.
I don't want a fucking video game to become a second job. I have school for that.
...falling down stairs, choking on glass.
I kid, I kid.
Here is what I hope: that the minds at Blizzard wow me with a new IP's MMO. One where the lore won't be consistently confusing, and the races and classes haven't been done to death. Maybe it'll be a genre they haven't touched, like steam-punk or post apocalyptic. I hope that they actually increase the worlds they have beyond what we've come to expect from them.
But really ... I don't want Blizzard to be the company that just turns all their existing franchises into MMOs. This is compounded by the fact that I really liked Diablo 2 and have absolutely in interest in WoW. It isn't that they can't be fun, it just feels ... wrong. Especially for Diablo.
So don't raid? There's tons of shit you can be doing in WoW besides just raiding.
And of course at this stage it'll be safe to say that normal loot in a co-op game would drop like it does in WoW you can only see your drops and visa versa to avoid assclowns running around scooping everything up and not asking you if you needed it.
Also above all else, trim off the fat of the hugeeeeeeeeeeee item lists. The 18 different types of polearms and 1 handed swords is unnecessary. I'm all for the exceptional and elite system, just not so many different types of the same crap.
Please tell me what else there is to do at endgame.
Run Battlegrounds
Level an alt
Make a twink
Run heroics
Run dailies to farm for an epic mount
Just gank people who are doing their dailies
Grief people (ie, Mind Control + Cliffs)
Try to organize a major city raid (or just join one; we have a fair number on Executus)
Or just look for a good guild that's fun to run things with. It seems to me that the majority of your problem with the game is that you joined really shitty guilds. I find the smaller guilds that don't have insane ambitions about downing Illidan provide some of the best WoW experiences.
Also, I never cared much for raiding so I did a lot of PVP as well as farming quests. They got boring after a while, but just like doing 100s of Meph, Diablo, and Baal runs.
I'm not saying you're wrong Evangir, because you're an awesome person (Plus your avatar wins) but these are my responses:
Run Battlegrounds (If you don't have the gear, you'll be running BGs for days/weeks/months to get anything good. It's not fun as alliance because we always seem to get raped)
Level an alt (To do the same thing in the end: raid)
Make a twink (You need money and patience to run instances to do this)
Run heroics (No clue what this is)
Run dailies to farm for an epic mount (Epic mount does nothing but increase running speed, no real reason to)
Just gank people who are doing their dailies (I'll give you that, but ganking people can only be SO fun until they camp your corpse because you need to raid to get good lewt)
Grief people (ie, Mind Control + Cliffs) (I did enjoy this, but again, like above, it can only be fun for so long)
Try to organize a major city raid (or just join one; we have a fair number on Executus) (The ones I've been on last at most 10 minutes before we're all wiped.)
Given your responses, you've been out of the game for a long time, or just haven't been at 70 longer than a day or two. They've made significant changes.
Heroics are more difficult versions of TBC instances. They're extremely fun if you can find a decent group (particularly Magister's Terrace on my Shadow Priest).
Twinks require a lot more money than they require instance running.
Epic flying mounts are amazing. You don't know what you're missing.
And raiding gear is terrible for PVP, except in certain cases (for instance, high level arena rogues and warriors often swap in some PVE DPS gear, as they are not targeted first as often).
Also, starter PVP gear is now purchaseable; You need Honoured reputation with 5 factions (which you can easily get while levelling, without doing any grinding) to buy their blue gear for a low price (probably about 100g for the whole 5-piece set; about 1 day worth of dailies). You can also buy the Season 1 Bracers/Boots/Belt for Badges of Justice. You'll be all set to start PVPing effectively.
Heroics sounds like it's just added raids that are a little more difficult.
Epic flying mounts only work in the expansion zone, no?
I'm not sure how it is on your battlegroup, but I see about a 50/50 split as far as win/loss goes. The best strategy seems to be to find a buddy or two and queue for BGs. Even if you lose, you'll have a ton of fun.
Heroics are not raids. They're quick 5-man instances that you can put together in 10 minutes. Faster if you have a good small guild.
And epic flyers only work in the expansion zone, yes, but there's almost no reason to return to the old world anyway, so... Yeah. Plus, Blizzard is apparently trying to make them work in the new zone come WOLTK.
Edit: I'd keep discussing this, but I have to run to work. If you ever get bored and want to reroll Horde-side, get on the server Executus and send a message to Rhok or Airae. I can help you with some starting gold or stuff like that :P
I just always start out feeling like I'm going to have a blast in the game... Then it wanes about a week later, then a few days after that I stop playing and eventually quit. I wish I could sell my account, but it'll stay there. Haunting me... Laughing at all the classes I failed/dropped in college because of it.
Nice to know a guild that's not big enough to raid just gets lumped into the 'shitty guilds' category, apparently.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who hates the idea of having to team up with so many people to do something in a game. Just to point out another reason someone might not want a game to be an MMO, not a strike against WoW as group-doing-things is just part of the MMO formula.
right ?!
Yeah I'm not saying WoW is terrible. Most MMOs are plagued with the problem that I have with them (the only one I really, really enjoy is DAoC but only because the RvR keeps things dynamic. I could log into my server one day and find out that Albion is raiding our relic keep, and, no matter what level you are, you have a duty to go out there and fight for your realm).
Who said that?
At any rate, that's not right. My guild is about 8 or 10 people strong and we did raids just fine. Even organized 25 man raids with friendly guilds.
In fact, our regular Kara raids included 3 people from other guilds that came with us every week. There are fallacies about raiding that seem to be accepted as truth: 1, that you need to be a bunch of arrogant fucks to raid successfully and 2, that you need to be a big guild. I've seen those proven wrong again and again.
I guess I read it between the lines every time someone said 'sounds like you're in a shitty guild!' to someone talking about the problems with WoW end-game.
Well, great if that's possible for you. I played on Tichondrius. Before going live it was the beta server, after going live it attracted the most pvp-intense guilds, no doubt partially because it also had both the blizzard employee 'unofficial' guild and all their tag-along groups (friends or otherwise). Joining some big guilds raid group? Please, what a laugh, why would a big competing guild want to share loot and raid space with non-guildies? Pick-up? Obviously the game MUST have changed drastically, because that was never going to happen on Tich.
Well, the game wasn't like this when I played it at all, and such a thing as a 'kara raid' didn't exist. If it's fixed, great, but the end game was broken and boring when I played it. From the sounds of it the new end game lets you raid in smaller (MUCH smaller... 8 to 10 guys?) than the old end game did. If it's fixed, great, but that doesn't change how broken it was when I played.
There's nothing better than 'Kara' stuff end game? No end game that needs fifty guys or any stupid shit like that and drops loot that makes Kara stuff look like paper mâché? Good changes if so.
The old pre-expansion end-games raids were 20 people for the small ones (Zul'gurrub, Ruins of Ahn'quraj) and 40 for the big ones (Molten Core, Onyxia, Blackwing Lair, Temple of Ahn-Quraj, Naxxramas.) (Plus a few outdoor encounters including the 4 Dragons of Nightmare, Azuragos and Lord Kazzak)
They changed those numbers to 10 (Karazhan, Zulaman) and 25 (Magtheridan's Lair, Seperpentshrine Cavern, Gruul's Lair, The Eye, Hyjal Summit, Blak Temple, Sunwell Plateau) for the expansion raids. (Plus, again, a few outdoor encounters, including a beefed up Lord Kazzak and a really nasty Fel Reaver named Doom Walker.)
I only read the last page of posts....
What's the drop rate for Diablo 3 on the end boss?
I also forgot about the rep grind for attunement. Let's just say you're going to be doing a lot of used game turn-ins.
This thread is teeming with people who want Diablo 3 to be an MMO/think its anything like an MMO/think its like guild wars.
Do the math.
I'd be perfectly fine with a game that uses a spectacular looking 3d engine like Titan Quest, zoomed out to an overhead/isometric camera. Except that Titan Quest isn't as good as D2, and just makes you want to play D2 instead.
I suffered the same fate. .. in fact, I think you told me that - But now we are all the more excited!
What was Blackrock Spire, then?
A normal dungeon? You could just haul along a few more useless people in your PUG.
It was still a raid, just recommended 10 man, not 20.
No, it was PUGable by 90% of groups. It's not really a raid.
By definition, its a raid. YOu have to form a raid in the menu, and invite more than 5 people. -_-
But anyway, BRS sucks and isn't fun. Diablo rocks and is fun. So lets not talk about MMOs and talk about Diablo.
I hope you can pay as a sorceror again, he was a pretty cool guy.