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I always thought Gamestop was ripping me off...

MrMonroeMrMonroe passed outon the floor nowRegistered User regular
edited April 2008 in Games and Technology
And I figured digital distribution would eventually marketpwn them out of existence.

So why is it, when they employ thousands fewer people, and pay rent on one or two servers as opposed to hundreds of stores, is World in Conflict the exact same price on Direct2Drive as it is at the local GameStop?

I thought I was getting screwed before, but now we're really getting reamed.

MrMonroe on
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Posts

  • BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    And I figured digital distribution would eventually marketpwn them out of existence.

    So why is it, when they employ thousands fewer people, and pay rent on one or two servers as opposed to hundreds of stores, is World in Conflict the exact same price on Direct2Drive as it is at the local GameStop?

    I thought I was getting screwed before, but now we're really getting reamed.

    We had this discussion in other threads before, but I believe the gist of it was publishers don't want to piss of their retail suppliers so they price it the same both ways.

    BlueDestiny on
  • FaceballMcDougalFaceballMcDougal Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    And I figured digital distribution would eventually marketpwn them out of existence.

    So why is it, when they employ thousands fewer people, and pay rent on one or two servers as opposed to hundreds of stores, is World in Conflict the exact same price on Direct2Drive as it is at the local GameStop?

    I thought I was getting screwed before, but now we're really getting reamed.

    But buying from Gamestop costs $60 + your soul and buying online just costs $60

    FaceballMcDougal on
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  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    It's a common practice for publishers or game stores to insist on setting the price for digital copies the same as store copies so they don't lose sales at the store.

    I know, it's retarded.

    RandomEngy on
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  • MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    But buying from Gamestop costs $60 + your soul and buying online just costs $60

    No, buying from D2D now costs $60 + your dignity as an "informed" consumer.

    You damn anti-capitalist game publishers!

    Wait, this is anti-competitive. Like, possibly illegally so. You're not allowed to make an agreement to fix prices at a certain level in order to reduce competition.

    Raise your hand if you're an anti-trust Lawyer, I have a pro bono job for you.

    MrMonroe on
  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I'm pretty sure it's not as simple as all that

    Captain K on
  • freakish lightfreakish light butterdick jones and his heavenly asshole machineRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    But buying from Gamestop costs $60 + your soul and buying online just costs $60

    No, buying from D2D now costs $60 + your dignity as an "informed" consumer.

    You damn anti-capitalist game publishers!

    Wait, this is anti-competitive. Like, possibly illegally so. You're not allowed to make an agreement to fix prices at a certain level in order to reduce competition.

    Raise your hand if you're an anti-trust Lawyer, I have a pro bono job for you.

    A manufacturer or producer setting a standard MSRP for all avenues of purchase isn't the same thing as two oil tycoons getting together and shutting down the economy for everybody. At least, not from where I'm sitting.

    freakish light on
  • CmdPromptCmdPrompt Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Wait how is two different retailers both using the same MSRP a rip-off or illegal in any way.

    e: Pretty much beat

    CmdPrompt on
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  • ogcam777ogcam777 Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    So the rise in oil prices now aren't because of a coalition between the oil producers?
    That guy on the street lied to me...:(

    ogcam777 on
    steam_sig.png
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    The best way to get games is when you get them in clearance sales and then they work on steam. Like when I got The Ship and Dark Messiah retail (bought for me by awesome forumers) for next to nothing, and now they are in my Steam games list.

    LewieP on
  • SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    That's just the publishers taking advantage of the retail prices to give themselves a larger profit at the same price for the consumer. They make more money and there's no difference for you.

    It's like a couple months ago here, when the sales tax got lowered, all the newspapers in this town raised their prices by one cent so that the price with tax would be the same as before. Kinda greedy, but hey, lol capitalism.

    SimBen on
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  • FightTestFightTest Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I have no problem paying the same for both. Game boxes and manuals are just trash that clutters up my room. It all eventually ends up getting thrown out anyway. Plus it's a hassle to have to make myself presentable and spend $8271202 on gas to drive to the mall (25 mins away). And I typically feel like buying stuff at like 3am when nothing is open.

    So frankly I'm willing to pay the same amount for the convenience.

    FightTest on
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  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    SimBen wrote: »
    That's just the publishers taking advantage of the retail prices to give themselves a larger overhead at the same price for the consumer. They make more money and there's no difference for you.

    I think you mean "profit", not "overhead"

    Captain K on
  • FaceballMcDougalFaceballMcDougal Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I got Sins of a Solar Empire online just because I wanted to give them money. I've maybe played it for 5 minutes.

    I tell you this much... digital distribution gets me in a lot of trouble.... damn you Steam.

    FaceballMcDougal on
    xbl/psn/steam: jabbertrack
  • SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Captain K wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    That's just the publishers taking advantage of the retail prices to give themselves a larger overhead at the same price for the consumer. They make more money and there's no difference for you.

    I think you mean "profit", not "overhead"

    Maybe I did.

    SimBen on
    sig.gif
  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    aw let's hug



    Anyway, this is all just more evidence that the video game publisher, like the major record label, is already in its death throes. Technology's going to leave that kind of business model in the dust eventually, but for now, stuff like this keeps it hanging around.

    Captain K on
  • Monolithic_DomeMonolithic_Dome Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Here's the rub: products aren't priced based on what they cost to make. They are priced on what companies think you will pay for them. Sure, cost of materials factors into that, but if a company thinks that you will pay 70 bucks for a widget, they aren't going to price it at 60 just because the price of Wiget-Sauce(TM) went down.

    Monolithic_Dome on
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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I'd much rather have a physical copy anyway.
    Besides, no one said you had to buy the games from Gamestop.
    Go to Walmart.

    Local H Jay on
  • LunysgwenLunysgwen Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I've used D2D for awhile now, and I'm quite happy with them. Not only do I get to download the game, and save the gas, I don't have to worry about physical copies being scratched. With D2D and Steam, I have the games FOREVER. They will never break, scratch, fail to work, or get eaten by my dog. I can even back them up easily.

    That's worth it to me.

    Lunysgwen on
  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I feel even shittier buying something from Wal-Mart than I do buying from Gamestop.

    But that's just me. Buy your shit wherever you want.

    Captain K on
  • citizen059citizen059 hello my name is citizen I'm from the InternetRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I know hating Wal-Mart is the cool new thing to do, and I want to be cool...I really do.

    But Wal-Mart carries more PC games than the EB-Gamestops in my area, and they're cheaper.

    citizen059 on
  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    ogcam777 wrote: »
    So the rise in oil prices now aren't because of a coalition between the oil producers?
    That guy on the street lied to me...:(

    Although there is substantial collusion going on, there is also a global increase in demand. The price hikes don't just come out of the aether.

    Regina Fong on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Thought this might be interesting, given the context:

    http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/04/exclusive-inter.html
    Are you looking to kill GameStop?

    Tycho: Well, I don't think that we're looking to kill GameStop, no. The reality is that there are just a lot of games that belong in a GameStop that they'd never allow there.

    Gabe: Robert said we could talk about that deal with GameStop.

    We had a meeting with GameStop to talk about selling a boxed version of the game. Once we had a bunch of episodes together, we would collect them and put them in a box, you know? And GameStop said, oh, that's fantastic. We'd love to do it, we'd love to carry the game... but it's not going to be available anywhere else, is it?

    And Robert said, well, we're going to digitally distribute it first.

    They got really upset. And they said, no, you can't do that. We can't have it in our store if it's coming out digitally first. And he said, well, I'm sorry, that's the way it works. We're publishing our game and we can say where it goes. And so the deal that they tried to strike with Robert was okay, well, listen: If you cut us in on the profits from online distribution, and XBLA, and everything it comes out on, then we'll think about carrying it in the store. Just, what assholes.

    So we're not going to be seeing this game in GameStop, is what you're saying.

    Gabe: Probably not.

    cloudeagle on
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  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I really hope steam hurries up and brings online game saves and profiles to all their games. It was great to fire up TF2 on my laptop and have all my stats saved. It's nice never having to cart CDs around with me, it's almost worth it.

    However, I started ebay some of my games recently and not being able to resell games is going to start becoming an issue for single player games I think. I sold Assassin's Creed for £25 recently, not bad considering it only cost my £19.99.

    Rook on
  • WillethWilleth Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    So essentially, GameStop is still ripping you off, even when you don't buy from them.

    Willeth on
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  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Willeth wrote: »
    So essentially, GameStop is still ripping you off, even when you don't buy from them.

    Depends on how you look at it. When one retailer is overwhelmingly in control of getting any industry's product in the hands of consumers, you could make a case that a lot of their practices end up screwing even the consumers who don't buy there.

    Captain K on
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    This content has been removed.

  • FawstFawst The road to awe.Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I've had this debate with people many times, specifically about music download services.

    If the average setlist of a CD is 12 tracks, you're paying 12 dollars to download an entire album. Make it an iTunes download, and DRM is brought into the equation. For those same 12 dollars (plus gas money and tax), I can drive down the street to the music store in my area (yay Newbury Comics!), and get the physical CD, the jewel case and the liner notes. Then I can use the CD to make MP3s with no DRM, so now I can put them on my iPod, use them on my 360, listen to it in my car's CD player...

    In other words, there is literally NO incentive to purchase digitally over physical. Games, understandably, have less to do with this story, but the point is that if you're not getting a discount, you're getting shafted.

    Fawst on
  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    It's quite likely for music that iTunes has kept the price of CDs low - they used to be quite a bit more expensive in retail than they are now. I think we'll see the same effect - even if certain games are going to be dual-release and $$, the more people use steam and can buy steam-only games for say, $39.99, the less incentive they'll have to buy other, more expensive games. So cheaper DD games may keep price low.

    Like you, though, I am deeply skeptical about systems where I A) surrender my first sale rights, and B) rely on an ongoing service to verify/run my games.

    kaliyama on
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  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Fawst, it's not always that simple. What if you just want one song and not the whole album? What if your closest B&M store is a 45 minute drive away?

    What if we're talking about something like NIN's recent double album release, available directly from NIN for $5?


    I mean, clearly you don't feel any incentive to purchase digitally, but that doesn't mean it's not a viable option for many people. I don't see why you'd even bother "debating" this point.

    Captain K on
  • elevatureelevature Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Fawst wrote: »
    I've had this debate with people many times, specifically about music download services.

    If the average setlist of a CD is 12 tracks, you're paying 12 dollars to download an entire album. Make it an iTunes download, and DRM is brought into the equation. For those same 12 dollars (plus gas money and tax), I can drive down the street to the music store in my area (yay Newbury Comics!), and get the physical CD, the jewel case and the liner notes. Then I can use the CD to make MP3s with no DRM, so now I can put them on my iPod, use them on my 360, listen to it in my car's CD player...

    In other words, there is literally NO incentive to purchase digitally over physical. Games, understandably, have less to do with this story, but the point is that if you're not getting a discount, you're getting shafted.

    Until you consider something like eMusic. $10 a month gets you 30 songs. $20 gets you 75 songs. So for the price of one cd, you get the equivalent of 2.5 or 3 albums. For the price of two cds, you get the equivalent of 5-7 full albums, depending on how many songs are on each. Sure there's no liner notes, but the higher value per dollar is enough to justify that for me. Plus I don't have to worry about where I'm going to put another cd, especially since all I do when I buy new cds is put them on my computer and ipod and then stick them on a shelf to gather dust.

    And there's no DRM, either. So in other words, there is literally NO incentive to purchase physically over digital, for me anyway.

    elevature on
  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Thought this might be interesting, given the context:

    http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/04/exclusive-inter.html
    Are you looking to kill GameStop?

    Tycho: Well, I don't think that we're looking to kill GameStop, no. The reality is that there are just a lot of games that belong in a GameStop that they'd never allow there.

    Gabe: Robert said we could talk about that deal with GameStop.

    We had a meeting with GameStop to talk about selling a boxed version of the game. Once we had a bunch of episodes together, we would collect them and put them in a box, you know? And GameStop said, oh, that's fantastic. We'd love to do it, we'd love to carry the game... but it's not going to be available anywhere else, is it?

    And Robert said, well, we're going to digitally distribute it first.

    They got really upset. And they said, no, you can't do that. We can't have it in our store if it's coming out digitally first. And he said, well, I'm sorry, that's the way it works. We're publishing our game and we can say where it goes. And so the deal that they tried to strike with Robert was okay, well, listen: If you cut us in on the profits from online distribution, and XBLA, and everything it comes out on, then we'll think about carrying it in the store. Just, what assholes.

    So we're not going to be seeing this game in GameStop, is what you're saying.

    Gabe: Probably not.

    Holy shit, that's ridiculous

    Lemming on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    There are a whole bunch of reasons to buy physical media.

    It can be more convenient.
    It can be cheaper
    Sometimes more music goes to the artist
    I like artwork
    I like having a physical backup at CD quality
    I like having a collection of music
    I can impulse purchase when I am already in music shops.
    I enjoy the shopping experience


    There are a whole bunch of reasons to buy downloaded music

    It can be more convenient
    It can be cheaper
    Sometimes more music goes to the artist
    You don't have to rip discs
    You can loose/scratch them
    You don't have to leave the house
    You can listen to it instantly
    More environmentally sound



    To say that there is no reason to use one over the other is ignorant.

    LewieP on
  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    If the price is the same, get the retail copy. What happens if someday Direct2Drive doesnt' exist anymore?

    maximumzero on
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  • RakaiRakai Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    How much of a cut does the Direct2Drive or Valve take per download? Retailers only make a small amount per game so switching to an online distribution model isn't going to drastically lower costs like you assume it would.

    Rakai on
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  • Tumbler 360Tumbler 360 Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    And I figured digital distribution would eventually marketpwn them out of existence.

    So why is it, when they employ thousands fewer people, and pay rent on one or two servers as opposed to hundreds of stores, is World in Conflict the exact same price on Direct2Drive as it is at the local GameStop?

    I thought I was getting screwed before, but now we're really getting reamed.

    The publishers get to decide who sells the software and they want each source a player can purchase from to have the same price. And more than likely the publishers are in close partnerships with the online purchasing systems or own them.

    People are paying a certain amount for games in general. It's not logical to think that changes are going to be made to decrease that price. Companies are vehicles for making money. Not cutting costs for consumers. Someone is saving money in all this but it's not the consumers.

    Tumbler 360 on
  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    The best way to get games is when you get them in clearance sales and then they work on steam. Like when I got The Ship and Dark Messiah retail (bought for me by awesome forumers) for next to nothing, and now they are in my Steam games list.

    Careful, that only works for a few titles. See this article.
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Unless Steam or D2D go away. Don't think it can happen? See PlaysForSure (Windows Media DRM used on a lot of music players).

    A digital download is only necessarily good for as long as the company issuing it is still around. Whereas I still have games on CD from like 15 years ago, and if I went digging I could probably find a couple on floppies from even longer ago (though I have no floppy drive, and can't guarantee they'd work, but whatever).

    Are you that sure that Steam will be around in 2023?

    If I was sure I could collect, I would bet you $1000 that game you buy now would be accessible then (not counting OS upgrades that make games not work). For one Valve has software written and tested already that liberates all games from having to authenticate with Steam servers, in the event that Valve goes under and no one wants to take up Steam. Secondly, Steam is the biggest digital distribution platform and is poised for even more growth. Failed DRM like MSN Music and MLB games had only tiny market share. Worrying about your Steam games becoming permanently unplayable is simply paranoia.

    RandomEngy on
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  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Lunysgwen wrote: »
    I've used D2D for awhile now, and I'm quite happy with them. Not only do I get to download the game, and save the gas, I don't have to worry about physical copies being scratched. With D2D and Steam, I have the games FOREVER. They will never break, scratch, fail to work, or get eaten by my dog. I can even back them up easily.

    That's worth it to me.

    Unless Steam or D2D go away. Don't think it can happen? See PlaysForSure (Windows Media DRM used on a lot of music players).

    A digital download is only necessarily good for as long as the company issuing it is still around. Whereas I still have games on CD from like 15 years ago, and if I went digging I could probably find a couple on floppies from even longer ago (though I have no floppy drive, and can't guarantee they'd work, but whatever).

    Are you that sure that Steam will be around in 2023?

    Better check those discs closely; CDs oxidize after a couple of decades.

    And yes, Steam might not be around in twenty years, either.

    Keeping entropy from increasing is hard work.

    Daedalus on
  • edited April 2008
    This content has been removed.

  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Secondly, Steam is the biggest digital distribution platform and is poised for even more growth. Failed DRM like MSN Music and MLB games had only tiny market share. Worrying about your Steam games becoming permanently unplayable is simply paranoia.

    Again, I was talking about a fifteen year timeframe. Fifteen years. That's like an eon or two in computer terms. For comparison, the iTunes Music Store has only been around for five. Google has only really been around for...what, 10? I am perfectly comfortable saying that the likelihood that Steam will still be around in fifteen years is pretty damn low. And that, unless it's already a part of their agreements with the game publishers they're distributing for, the likelihood that that crack will see the light of day is also low.

    Let us say that the likelyhood of a crack existing and being distributed on the internet is rather high, given that such cracks exist right now.

    It might not be the official one, but let's face it, people who purchased Steam games likely won't care.

    Daedalus on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    The best way to get games is when you get them in clearance sales and then they work on steam. Like when I got The Ship and Dark Messiah retail (bought for me by awesome forumers) for next to nothing, and now they are in my Steam games list.

    Careful, that only works for a few titles. See this article.

    Which is a damn shame.

    LewieP on
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