Surface! - A Submarine Sim Thread

unpurposed

So lately I've had a strange and burning desire to play some sort of submarine simulation game. I played the old Silent Hunter years ago and remembered how much fun I had with it. Did some googling and found a bunch of games but I want something that'll keep me enthralled and addicted for a while, I suppose. I heard the new Silent Hunter IV was pretty good but unfortunately this ridiculous laptop I have with integrated graphics won't run it. Any suggestions?

subedii

Only game I can think of to recommend is Silent Hunter 3 really. Other than that, I can't say I'm aware of any other sub games really being available.

I've only recently picked up SH4, it's really good. From what I've seen of the community surrounding the games they seem to prefer SH3.

Although SH3 scares me a little since you need to do plenty of maths if you want to do manual targeting of torpedos. Unlike the US subs at the time, German subs didn't have a clock / computer to input your data into as you got it in order to keep it up to date whilst you get all your measurements and calculations in.

It's still a pretty awesome feeling stealthing it out underwater until get all your calculations in and get a spread off. Then sit back and watch the show as you descend into the depts and hope you don't start hearing the ominous pinging sound.

Best place to ask is probably at the forums over here.

Sporkacus

I saw SH4 at WalMart relatively cheap awhile ago, but I only have a 64mb video card, so I didn't grab it. I used to play Silent Service 1 when I was a kid, though, and have fond memories of subsim.

Over summer I'll be working on a new compy; would I be best saving my cash and picking up SH4, or grabbing a copy of SH3 now? I note that reviews of SH4 mentioned quite a few bugs, have the major ones been patched?

ArcSyn

688 Attack Sub!

Shockwave

I second Silent Hunter 3. I was doing a patrol off the coast of Ireland when my watchman reported contacts. Turned out to be a small aircraft carrier and 3 destroyers. The sea was really rough and I wasn't anywhere resembling a choice position, so I risked Flank speed hoping the waves would give me some cover. This worked for a while until my engine noise was made and they destroyers came booking. I dove, released 4-5 cans of chaff, and continued course. This barely gave me enough time to fire a spread at the carrier. 3 missed, 2 nailed the engine compartment and rear hull. The carrier starts taking on a nasty list but flanks it's engines (I can hear the chun chun chun right through the hull). It swerves north and hits up to about 20 knots. It starts chugging away and I think I'm going to lose the stupid thing when it suddenly rolls and bam, got my 12k tons.

unpurposed

So I borrowed Silent Hunter III from a friend this morning and played it. It is amazing. The only thing that is wrong is that my computer can't handle the exterior view unless I aim the camera down at the water. Unfortunately, I can't find any settings to scale it so I can run it at a decent framerate. The only option in the game is to use low or high graphics.

Captain K

I haven't played it since shortly after release, but the first few versions of SH4 were extremely buggy. Super-pretty, but so buggy.

The game was still fun, but there were all kinds of egregious flaws with the code. The worst? You literally could not use the targeting computer to manually aim your torpedo shots. It was bugged! Fucking bugged!



But wow, talk about pretty. If they've fixed the bugs, then SH4 comes highly recommended.

xWonderboyx

Being stationed on a real 688, I actually want to try one of these out to see how they modeled submarines and how they work. Neat thread.

Dashui

I like the thread title. Surface! Clever.

I never was into submarine games before I tried Silent Hunter 4. Yeah, it was a bit buggy (there are some patches out, including fan patches, as well as an expansion pack that let's you play as the Germans), but damn it was epic. I keep hearing that Silent Hunter 3 was a better overall game, so you should definitely check that one out.

subedii

Well I only got SH4 recently and as far as I can tell there don't seem to be any major problems, at least none that I've noticed.

Also, just for reference:

Manual torpedo aiming in Silent Hunter 4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y58dWSILYY

Just so I avoid scaring anyone off the games, those are if you choose to target the torpedoes manually (Personally I like to do that, it feels so much cooler when you got the estimates right). You can opt for it to be done automatically (as in, some other poor guy on the boat does the calculations), and you just launch them.

Wheezer

So I gather Silent Hunter is the best WWII sub sim series.

For modern submarines the recommendation goes to SCS Dangerous Waters.
It lets you man most stations you would care on the 688(i) and Seawolf, as well as the Akula and Kilo. You can do sonar, TMA, weapons control and so on, or leave them to the computer crewmen. It's as realistic as it gets on a home computer. It's an excellent game, but the learning curve is steep.

Oh, it got added to Steam. Too bad the Steam purchase doesn't come with the bound 500-page user manual, which you can still buy directly from Sonalyst Combat Simulations.

http://www.sonalystscombatsims.com/dangerous_waters/index.html

xWonderboyX:
The simulated 688 usually is about searching for contacts on the sonar. It has the waterfall displays modeled, with narrow- and broadband. TMA is very much manual with a digital slide ruler though, and I'd assume the real submarine has a much more computerized solution. I believe the elements like DEMON and TMA are there, but simplified for the simulator.

I'd love to see the sonar suite on a 688 though.

xWonderboyx

Wheezer wrote: »

So I gather Silent Hunter is the best WWII sub sim series.

For modern submarines the recommendation goes to SCS Dangerous Waters.
It lets you man most stations you would care on the 688(i) and Seawolf, as well as the Akula and Kilo. You can do sonar, TMA, weapons control and so on, or leave them to the computer crewmen. It's as realistic as it gets on a home computer. It's an excellent game, but the learning curve is steep.

Oh, it got added to Steam. Too bad the Steam purchase doesn't come with the bound 500-page user manual, which you can still buy directly from Sonalyst Combat Simulations.

http://www.sonalystscombatsims.com/dangerous_waters/index.html

xWonderboyX:
The simulated 688 usually is about searching for contacts on the sonar. It has the waterfall displays modeled, with narrow- and broadband. TMA is very much manual with a digital slide ruler though, and I'd assume the real submarine has a much more computerized solution. I believe the elements like DEMON and TMA are there, but simplified for the simulator.

I'd love to see the sonar suite on a 688 though.

It's a lot of green. And it's dark in the room. It's a real danger to fall asleep, and the sonar supervisor is busier waking people up than supervising sonar (not really, but you know). I've only spent a little bit of time in there, though, as I am a radioman and I sneak off to the radio room to do a whole lot of nothing. I'm more interested to see if they got control right. And actually, it would be really cool if you could walk around in a virtual sub, but some areas are classified as high as secret.

That said, submarines suck. Play on them in games, don't ride one in real life. And they stink.

subedii

xWonderboyx wrote: »

Wheezer wrote: »

So I gather Silent Hunter is the best WWII sub sim series.

For modern submarines the recommendation goes to SCS Dangerous Waters.
It lets you man most stations you would care on the 688(i) and Seawolf, as well as the Akula and Kilo. You can do sonar, TMA, weapons control and so on, or leave them to the computer crewmen. It's as realistic as it gets on a home computer. It's an excellent game, but the learning curve is steep.

Oh, it got added to Steam. Too bad the Steam purchase doesn't come with the bound 500-page user manual, which you can still buy directly from Sonalyst Combat Simulations.

http://www.sonalystscombatsims.com/dangerous_waters/index.html

xWonderboyX:
The simulated 688 usually is about searching for contacts on the sonar. It has the waterfall displays modeled, with narrow- and broadband. TMA is very much manual with a digital slide ruler though, and I'd assume the real submarine has a much more computerized solution. I believe the elements like DEMON and TMA are there, but simplified for the simulator.

I'd love to see the sonar suite on a 688 though.

It's a lot of green. And it's dark in the room. It's a real danger to fall asleep, and the sonar supervisor is busier waking people up than supervising sonar (not really, but you know). I've only spent a little bit of time in there, though, as I am a radioman and I sneak off to the radio room to do a whole lot of nothing. I'm more interested to see if they got control right. And actually, it would be really cool if you could walk around in a virtual sub, but some areas are classified as high as secret.

That said, submarines suck. Play on them in games, don't ride one in real life. And they stink.

Well, that's pretty much the case for games in general when compared to RL. I imagine most soldiers don't get their own awesome backing soundtrack.

Handgimp

xWonderboyx wrote: »

It's a lot of green. And it's dark in the room. It's a real danger to fall asleep, and the sonar supervisor is busier waking people up than supervising sonar (not really, but you know). I've only spent a little bit of time in there, though, as I am a radioman and I sneak off to the radio room to do a whole lot of nothing. I'm more interested to see if they got control right. And actually, it would be really cool if you could walk around in a virtual sub, but some areas are classified as high as secret.

That said, submarines suck. Play on them in games, don't ride one in real life. And they stink.

Haha. So true. Amine, trash, shit and smoke FTW. As far as accuracy, I believe these are the guys who program the Navy's trainers, so while they're not 100% accurate they're all functional.

Wheezer

The simulator doesn't make you spend much time actually driving the subs. Most of the time you set course, speed and depth and you're good. You can do the adjustments yourself too, plus stuff like recharging pressurized air. You can't trim the submarine with ballast though, the player control is limited to planes.

My love for the game aside, it has nags like how the crew doesn't warn you if you set a speed that causes cavitation. The information is there so you can check which speed causes cavitation at which depth, but it's another thing to worry about.

unpurposed

subedii wrote: »

Well I only got SH4 recently and as far as I can tell there don't seem to be any major problems, at least none that I've noticed.

Also, just for reference:

Manual torpedo aiming in Silent Hunter 4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y58dWSILYY

Just so I avoid scaring anyone off the games, those are if you choose to target the torpedoes manually (Personally I like to do that, it feels so much cooler when you got the estimates right). You can opt for it to be done automatically (as in, some other poor guy on the boat does the calculations), and you just launch them.

This is just amazing. I don't know why but I find myself incredibly interested in doing these kinds of calculations and getting them right. Heh, I'd probably have paper and pencil and do the calculations precisely since I'm weird like that.

xWonderboyx

Handgimp wrote: »

xWonderboyx wrote: »

It's a lot of green. And it's dark in the room. It's a real danger to fall asleep, and the sonar supervisor is busier waking people up than supervising sonar (not really, but you know). I've only spent a little bit of time in there, though, as I am a radioman and I sneak off to the radio room to do a whole lot of nothing. I'm more interested to see if they got control right. And actually, it would be really cool if you could walk around in a virtual sub, but some areas are classified as high as secret.

That said, submarines suck. Play on them in games, don't ride one in real life. And they stink.

Haha. So true. Amine, trash, shit and smoke FTW. As far as accuracy, I believe these are the guys who program the Navy's trainers, so while they're not 100% accurate they're all functional.

The best is when trash and shit become one, and someone compacts a bag of shit. Crew's Mess smelling like shit during a meal is the best thing ever.

That aside, I know some guys that work for Sonalyst and they're pretty cool.

subedii

unpurposed wrote: »

subedii wrote: »

Well I only got SH4 recently and as far as I can tell there don't seem to be any major problems, at least none that I've noticed.

Also, just for reference:

Manual torpedo aiming in Silent Hunter 4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y58dWSILYY

Just so I avoid scaring anyone off the games, those are if you choose to target the torpedoes manually (Personally I like to do that, it feels so much cooler when you got the estimates right). You can opt for it to be done automatically (as in, some other poor guy on the boat does the calculations), and you just launch them.

This is just amazing. I don't know why but I find myself incredibly interested in doing these kinds of calculations and getting them right. Heh, I'd probably have paper and pencil and do the calculations precisely since I'm weird like that.

There is definitely something to be said for getting your calculations right and seeing your torpedoes hit home. Auto-aim is for wimps

Although that's nothing. Silent Hunter 3 has you in a German sub. They didn't have the computers that kept figures updated whilst you did calculations, you actually needed to do some fairly complex maths to calculate eventual location of the target and torpedo settings. See here for an example (warning, NSFW since dude for some reason decided to mod some, er, alternate ship types into his logbook. Sailor's at sea and all that :? ). It's also not in English but you can understand what's happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgDcAxBegqI

You might understand why I'm scared of trying manual TDC in SH3.

Basticle

Am I the only one who played Tom Clancy's SSN? It was far from a simulator, it was more of a somewhat realistic arcade game, more like Ace Combat is to Falcon 4.0

anyway I thought it was fun.

xWonderboyx

Nudity on YouTube. Who would have thought?

Drovek

subedii wrote: »

Although that's nothing. Silent Hunter 3 has you in a German sub. They didn't have the computers that kept figures updated whilst you did calculations, you actually needed to do some fairly complex maths to calculate eventual location of the target and torpedo settings. See here for an example (warning, NSFW since dude for some reason decided to mod some, er, alternate ship types into his logbook. Sailor's at sea and all that :? ). It's also not in English but you can understand what's happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgDcAxBegqI

You might understand why I'm scared of trying manual TDC in SH3.

Am I crazy because I think that's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen? (Not really talking about the ship types here).

Damn, I want that game.

subedii

I also want to add that Silent Hunter 4 has one of the most awesome intro's ever made. It takes a lot to make me interested in a poem, but the delivery is so brilliantly well done.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/17975.html

Do not read the comments section, it will hurt your brain.

EDIT: Wow, I thought it just did displays for youtube. In any case, you can download a better quality version if you visit the page.

Pajama_Man

So what would be a good simple and easy to learn "modern(er)" title for someone new to the genre to get "wet" in? :winky:

Deadfall

I played the demo of the first SH that came pre-installed on my first computer so hard.

Basticle

Pajama_Man wrote: »

So what would be a good simple and easy to learn "modern(er)" title for someone new to the genre to get "wet" in? :winky:

I would say Tom Clancy's SSN. Like I said its not too technical so it would be easy to get into. It was made for Windows 95 however so I have no idea if it works on XP or Vista.

Foomy

For a sub game I've always enjoyed 688i Hunter/Killer, old game but it runs just fine if you can find a copy, bonus if you do because it's a Janes game so it has one of those awesome 300 page ring bound instruction books.

if you can't find a boxed copy, it's on steam http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=game&AppId=2900

also on gametap, which has a 4 or 5 other sub games plus various other naval simulators

SammyF

SCS: Dangerous Waters is a pretty good modern sub sim. The graphics aren't necessarily anything to write home about, but it does do a decent job at forcing you to use sensors to try and intuit a firing solution; track a target when you turn it onto full realism--it's the most involved sub sim out there. Silent Hunter 3 is as involved but obviously is all about the periscope and trangulating an intercept point (the math is different for a firing solution when you're using sonar versus a visual track: with a visual track you can easily see heading and bearing, can estimate range fairly easily if you have a solid ID on the target, but you have to intuit speed. When you're using sonar, the best data you have is on bearing and speed, but you have to intuit heading and range).

The benefit of Silent Hunter 3 (and presumably 4) is that there's also the crew management, which is super fun.

krylon666

any idea if the steam version (of SH3, cause i don't think 4 had it anyway) is starforce-free? i see they have a nice package of 3 & 4 + expansion on there for pretty cheap. i bought SH3 awhile ago, but didn't realize it had starforce, so i never actually installed it

Axen

I just remembered that I bought SH3 a long time ago and never installed it. Hm, maybe I will give it a shot. If I like it maybe I can get motivated enough for a LP.



edit- Hm, I ran aground during training and everyone died. . . an omen perhaps?

subedii

Axen wrote: »

I just remembered that I bought SH3 a long time ago and never installed it. Hm, maybe I will give it a shot. If I like it maybe I can get motivated enough for a LP.



edit- Hm, I ran aground during training and everyone died. . . an omen perhaps?

If you do, Das Boot is probably going to be recommended watching for beforehand.

krylon666

GREAT film

Axen

Oh man I am loving this. Its kind of like the first time I ever seen a naked woman. I didn't understand what I was seeing, but I knew deep down that it was totally awesome.

I was looking for texture mods and what not and came across the the GWX2.1 supermod. Apparently the mod adds some 3gigs worth of stuff! Its sounds absolutely divine. I will hold off on getting it until I have a better understanding of what I am doing.

Though I would still like to find a good texture mod, not that the game doesn't look good, its just that I know it can look better.


update: Well I got the GWX Supermod. It adds a whole heap of stuff. It is super awesome!

My first career has, sadly, come to an end. Leutnant Klaus meet his demise 100 meters under the sea. Damn depth charges.

krylon666

for a graphics boost, you may want to check out SH4 - from the videos i've seen, it looks amazing

krylon666

hey can someone with the steam version of SH3 tell me what version of the game it installs?

bamjo

That SH4 trailer gave me shivers.

Are all the bugs really fixed. I remember reading about some really bad ones. Like hitting "a" to auto level the sub crashed the game every time. If they patched it I am totally picking that one up.

SammyF

bamjo wrote: »

That SH4 trailer gave me shivers.

Are all the bugs really fixed. I remember reading about some really bad ones. Like hitting "a" to auto level the sub crashed the game every time. If they patched it I am totally picking that one up.

There were some occassionally game-killing bugs related to submarine bases changing hands or closing. If you were based out of an installation early in the war that changed hands or closed while you were out on patrol, you couldn't RTB and were SOL.

krylon666

i've had no crashes with SH4 yet. i'd read over at the subsim forums for details on whats been fixed etc, cause they seem to have a great deal of knowledge of these games.

ANTVGM64

What was the Live Action Submarine game with Robert Stack?

mwoody

Krylon666 mentioned it, but it bears repeating: Silent Hunter III employs the extremely invasive Starforce brand of copy protection - avoid at all costs! Presumably, direct download versions don't include this limitation. Silent Hunter IV is fine, since Ubisoft had already been sued at that point, so they didn't want to dig their hole deeper.

krylon666

i just got a reply from a steam CSR and they clarified that the steam version of SH3 thankfully does NOT include starforce. and someone on the forums there informed me that it is the latest patch (1.4) - so it you can mod it up with GWX etc.

so for 29.99 you can get SH3 + SH4 + expansion and not deal with starforce

Blutraserei

I didn't know this existed. I will watch The Enemy Below sometime and then immediately play this.