I don't owe anyone because they individually gave me something, but rather because I acknowledge that I should pay the community back for what it gives me every day.
And spending the rest of your life (which is probably going to end in violence well before it would naturally) is the appropriate way to 'pay the community back?'
Since everyone else wants to participate in pointless e-philosophical masturbation (BTW, did it occur to anyone that you ALL could be correct, as it is a matter of individual interpretation), I'll post a scan this week.
I don't owe anyone because they individually gave me something, but rather because I acknowledge that I should pay the community back for what it gives me every day.
And spending the rest of your life (which is probably going to end in violence well before it would naturally) is the appropriate way to 'pay the community back?'
Right, just so we're clear on your stance.
That's exactly right: when you're literally under seige, at war every day as in the Marvel universe, soldiers need to be conscripted. It is that simple, the same way we needed the draft in real life, and the same way most first world countries continue to believe in the draft.
It is better to die saving your country, than to live through its destruction. It's a measure of how much you actually value your liberties and nation, that you think it's absurd that the right way to give back for some people would be military service.
superpowers change the entire landscape of moral analysis.
Yeah, I clearly didn't understand your point, because I put it into non-weasel words.
Superpowers don't change the moral landscape any more than sight would if everyone else were blind. Things that are right are still right, and things that are wrong are still wrong. If everyone were blind, would it be ok to force the sighted to work for the state as a form of police? Of course not. It's the same for superpowers.
How the hell would the blind work out who could see, more importantly how could they tell if their sighted police force actually did their jobs instead of going home and playing GTA 4.
How the hell would the blind work out who could see, more importantly how could they tell if their sighted police force actually did their jobs instead of going home and playing GTA 4.
superpowers change the entire landscape of moral analysis.
Yeah, I clearly didn't understand your point, because I put it into non-weasel words.
Superpowers don't change the moral landscape any more than sight would if everyone else were blind. Things that are right are still right, and things that are wrong are still wrong. If everyone were blind, would it be ok to force the sighted to work for the state as a form of police? Of course not. It's the same for superpowers.
how about this- hypothetically, let's say there's a disease of some kind going around. it's very fatal, and very contagious. people all over the world are dying, except for those with type AB blood. for some reason AB blood types are immune. a cure for the rest of the population could be synthesized, but it would require a good amount of AB blood. is it wrong for the government to require all AB blood typed citizens to donate blood? or should they rather just announce that they need it and depend on the good natures of AB typed citizens to step up to the plate?
obviously this is just a general thought experiment, ignoring factors like other blood bourne disease that AB typed people might be carrying or things like that.
What if there were people who needed kidneys to live and other people who, with two functioning kidneys, could give up one and still feel fine? Would it be right to force people to donate kidneys?
superpowers change the entire landscape of moral analysis.
Yeah, I clearly didn't understand your point, because I put it into non-weasel words.
Superpowers don't change the moral landscape any more than sight would if everyone else were blind. Things that are right are still right, and things that are wrong are still wrong. If everyone were blind, would it be ok to force the sighted to work for the state as a form of police? Of course not. It's the same for superpowers.
how about this- hypothetically, let's say there's a disease of some kind going around. it's very fatal, and very contagious. people all over the world are dying, except for those with type AB blood. for some reason AB blood types are immune. a cure for the rest of the population could be synthesized, but it would require a good amount of AB blood. is it wrong for the government to require all AB blood typed citizens to donate blood? or should they rather just announce that they need it and depend on the good natures of AB typed citizens to step up to the plate?
obviously this is just a general thought experiment, ignoring factors like other blood bourne disease that AB typed people might be carrying or things like that.
i would say the shra is more akin to taking all the AB blood types, and putting them in machines that constantly drain just enough blood for them to not die. for the rest of their lives.
but thats a matter of scale rather than ... i dunno, quality?
some kind of action should be taken, but you must remember the rights of the individuals you are trying to conscript. i see the shra as not doing that correctly.
superpowers change the entire landscape of moral analysis.
Yeah, I clearly didn't understand your point, because I put it into non-weasel words.
Superpowers don't change the moral landscape any more than sight would if everyone else were blind. Things that are right are still right, and things that are wrong are still wrong. If everyone were blind, would it be ok to force the sighted to work for the state as a form of police? Of course not. It's the same for superpowers.
how about this- hypothetically, let's say there's a disease of some kind going around. it's very fatal, and very contagious. people all over the world are dying, except for those with type AB blood. for some reason AB blood types are immune. a cure for the rest of the population could be synthesized, but it would require a good amount of AB blood. is it wrong for the government to require all AB blood typed citizens to donate blood? or should they rather just announce that they need it and depend on the good natures of AB typed citizens to step up to the plate?
obviously this is just a general thought experiment, ignoring factors like other blood bourne disease that AB typed people might be carrying or things like that.
i would say the shra is more akin to taking all the AB blood types, and putting them in machines that constantly drain just enough blood for them to not die. for the rest of their lives.
but thats a matter of scale rather than ... i dunno, quality?
some kind of action should be taken, but you must remember the rights of the individuals you are trying to conscript. i see the shra as not doing that correctly.
alright, well how about this, then. would it make you feel better if, rather than dismantling the shra, we instead do what a number of other countries do and institute universal draft? everyone does a little stint in the military, not all combat duties or anything like that, and if you're a power, you get powers training and attached to special squads that befit your abilities. if not, you do your service and muster out like everyone else.
Servo on
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NogsCrap, crap, mega crap.Crap, crap, mega crap.Registered Userregular
edited May 2008
I always that the SHRA should be a "hey you got powers. come here and we will help you get them under control" and then afterwards, if they want to be a part of the initiative they could, or just go home and not use their powers.
the dangerous part about the powered people was them not being responsible and/or them going out of control. Training is just suppose to bring it under control so they don't go accidentally killing someone.
so basically i guess i kinda support the universal draft of things. Go in, get training so you don't accidentally let go and kill your parents, and then go home or stay with it if you want.
I always that the SHRA should be a "hey you got powers. come here and we will help you get them under control" and then afterwards, if they want to be a part of the initiative they could, or just go home and not use their powers.
the dangerous part about the powered people was them not being responsible and/or them going out of control. Training is just suppose to bring it under control so they don't go accidentally killing someone.
so basically i guess i kinda support the universal draft of things. Go in, get training so you don't accidentally let go and kill your parents, and then go home or stay with it if you want.
this.
also, duration of conscription is a make or break thing.
And if the conscriptee is the main source of income and support for his/her family, perhaps in such a case the government could assist them for the duration of the conscription.
How many missions has Reed been conscripted to perform for the Initiative in states without super teams? I assume the Fantastic Four are registered. Why do they get to stay in Manhattan? New York already has a team. Most of the other states do not. I hear California may need a new one. Not that it's the most populous and economically largest state or anything. I guess that when you make the rules, you don't have to follow them.
alright, well how about this, then. would it make you feel better if, rather than dismantling the shra, we instead do what a number of other countries do and institute universal draft? everyone does a little stint in the military, not all combat duties or anything like that, and if you're a power, you get powers training and attached to special squads that befit your abilities. if not, you do your service and muster out like everyone else.
I'm liking this more and more.
Now granted, the average human is going to get pasted if they try to fight the Hulk or Colossus or anyone of that power level regardless, but even basic military training would make it harder for supervillains to victimize the populace (on a small or large scale). Sure, if Doom comes rolling through town, everyone is probably fucked (including some of the powered folks), but we've also seen some of the lower powered villains held off or even taken down by regular people.
You could even extrapolate this to include a few basic courses on resisting mind control, seeing through illusions/deception, and some of the more common powers put to nefarious ends. I suppose that just like military combat/weapons training, these could be put to a negative use against The Initiative teams, but if the whole point here is to keep people/beings/things with superhuman powers in check, enhancing the level of resistance the entire U.S. population can put out with their regular citizens would be a non-insignificant goal.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited May 2008
Any debate about the SHRA is doomed to failure, since it is undefined to the point that any writer can change it from pariah to paragon on a whim.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Algertman you are like a black hole of ignorance, so dense that you threaten to collapse in upon yourself and pull everything good and right around you into crushing oblivion.
Well the Viltrumites ARE pretty similar to Saiyajins. What with the whole getting stronger after recovering from major injuries, sending out youths to conquer planets for sale and use, etc. But I don't mind the similarities as I was a fan of Invincible but I haven't read it in a while.
Well the Viltrumites ARE pretty similar to Saiyajins. What with the whole getting stronger after recovering from major injuries, sending out youths to conquer planets for sale and use, etc. But I don't mind the similarities as I was a fan of Invincible but I haven't read it in a while.
Posts
we have waaaaaaaaaaaay different outlooks on things.
And spending the rest of your life (which is probably going to end in violence well before it would naturally) is the appropriate way to 'pay the community back?'
Right, just so we're clear on your stance.
From New Avengers #40, Last Page (Spoiler...duh)
That's exactly right: when you're literally under seige, at war every day as in the Marvel universe, soldiers need to be conscripted. It is that simple, the same way we needed the draft in real life, and the same way most first world countries continue to believe in the draft.
It is better to die saving your country, than to live through its destruction. It's a measure of how much you actually value your liberties and nation, that you think it's absurd that the right way to give back for some people would be military service.
Yeah, I clearly didn't understand your point, because I put it into non-weasel words.
Superpowers don't change the moral landscape any more than sight would if everyone else were blind. Things that are right are still right, and things that are wrong are still wrong. If everyone were blind, would it be ok to force the sighted to work for the state as a form of police? Of course not. It's the same for superpowers.
D- your analogy needs more work.
Cerebro. Duh.
how about this- hypothetically, let's say there's a disease of some kind going around. it's very fatal, and very contagious. people all over the world are dying, except for those with type AB blood. for some reason AB blood types are immune. a cure for the rest of the population could be synthesized, but it would require a good amount of AB blood. is it wrong for the government to require all AB blood typed citizens to donate blood? or should they rather just announce that they need it and depend on the good natures of AB typed citizens to step up to the plate?
obviously this is just a general thought experiment, ignoring factors like other blood bourne disease that AB typed people might be carrying or things like that.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
i would say the shra is more akin to taking all the AB blood types, and putting them in machines that constantly drain just enough blood for them to not die. for the rest of their lives.
but thats a matter of scale rather than ... i dunno, quality?
some kind of action should be taken, but you must remember the rights of the individuals you are trying to conscript. i see the shra as not doing that correctly.
alright, well how about this, then. would it make you feel better if, rather than dismantling the shra, we instead do what a number of other countries do and institute universal draft? everyone does a little stint in the military, not all combat duties or anything like that, and if you're a power, you get powers training and attached to special squads that befit your abilities. if not, you do your service and muster out like everyone else.
the dangerous part about the powered people was them not being responsible and/or them going out of control. Training is just suppose to bring it under control so they don't go accidentally killing someone.
so basically i guess i kinda support the universal draft of things. Go in, get training so you don't accidentally let go and kill your parents, and then go home or stay with it if you want.
PARKER, YOU'RE FIRED! <-- My comic book podcast! Satan look here!
this.
also, duration of conscription is a make or break thing.
How many missions has Reed been conscripted to perform for the Initiative in states without super teams? I assume the Fantastic Four are registered. Why do they get to stay in Manhattan? New York already has a team. Most of the other states do not. I hear California may need a new one. Not that it's the most populous and economically largest state or anything. I guess that when you make the rules, you don't have to follow them.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Final page of Blue Beetle
Surely you plan to live longer than that.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
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read invincible already
I'm liking this more and more.
Now granted, the average human is going to get pasted if they try to fight the Hulk or Colossus or anyone of that power level regardless, but even basic military training would make it harder for supervillains to victimize the populace (on a small or large scale). Sure, if Doom comes rolling through town, everyone is probably fucked (including some of the powered folks), but we've also seen some of the lower powered villains held off or even taken down by regular people.
You could even extrapolate this to include a few basic courses on resisting mind control, seeing through illusions/deception, and some of the more common powers put to nefarious ends. I suppose that just like military combat/weapons training, these could be put to a negative use against The Initiative teams, but if the whole point here is to keep people/beings/things with superhuman powers in check, enhancing the level of resistance the entire U.S. population can put out with their regular citizens would be a non-insignificant goal.
My MotW was translating the scarab in this issue
I guess they wanted people to figure out that it really says something on their own
no
fuck you, I guess
how about you read invincible to me.
Just imagine an Americanized Dragon Ball and remove all the yelling
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i'd throw spoilers on that asuma.