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[CoH/CoV] Arg, these tights are [chat]ing me.

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    INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    s3rial one wrote: »
    And as for the experience group this weekend, unless we get some mentors (or whatever the hell they're called red side), it doesn't look like it's going to work.

    I don't have tons and tons of time this weekend but I might be able to bring along my brute to SK folks

    INeedNoSalt on
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    PbPb Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Pb wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    I know you and s3 don't accept "Well, I've never had problems with it" as a valid viewpoint on a set, Pb.

    But the reality is... I've got a 44 SS/Invuln Brute and I've never really went "God damn it my character sucks because of his lousy powerset".

    Basically the only thing that grinds my gears is the Psionic damage hole in the set. Fighting 3+ Rikti Mentalists hurts.

    Otherwise, I basically have no complaints about it. I have every power in the set, and I do fine both solo and on groups.

    Hell, I play on the highest or second highest difficulty when soloing most of the time and I die maybe once every three or four missions.

    I mean, you can make charts and post statistic figures and point out how any other (or every other) defensive set is superior.

    It doesn't effect or change my play experience.

    Because WP is in pretty much every way superior. This isn't even a case where someone could point to concept, because there's really no conceptual difference between the sets, just a mechanical one. I don't think I'd ever make an Invuln again now that WP is around. I also found Ice to be a bit more survivable, when it comes to tanks. That's almost certainly due to having two panic buttons available.

    So at what level exactly do you crank things to consider this?

    I mean, there can't really be much of a difference solo or really even on teams except when faces with Psionic enemies; in these cases, a brute is going to kill things more quickly than he gets hurt pretty unanimously.

    Is it measured by just how big you can crank a given spawn before it becomes too much to handle? Because again, an Invuln, especially with their panic button up, isn't going to have trouble even with huge groups unless they're Psionic.

    I guess to me, it's like, yeah, the numbers are different, but put into play, the only difference I can actually witness seems to come up when there's a psychic bad guy around.

    See, that's the thing. You don't see a difference in survivability, which is great. Except one has Quick Recovery and the other doesn't.

    Whoops.

    Pb on
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    Gear GirlGear Girl More class than a state university Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    s3rial one wrote: »
    Wall of text

    I agree with you for the most part except I am perhaps not as angry(well not really angry at all) as you seem to be about this. I would however like to point out that although I'm sure you only meant some specific developers responsible for the desicion here, your post does it make it sound like you depise all "City of" developers ever.

    Gear Girl on
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    INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Pb wrote: »
    Pb wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    I know you and s3 don't accept "Well, I've never had problems with it" as a valid viewpoint on a set, Pb.

    But the reality is... I've got a 44 SS/Invuln Brute and I've never really went "God damn it my character sucks because of his lousy powerset".

    Basically the only thing that grinds my gears is the Psionic damage hole in the set. Fighting 3+ Rikti Mentalists hurts.

    Otherwise, I basically have no complaints about it. I have every power in the set, and I do fine both solo and on groups.

    Hell, I play on the highest or second highest difficulty when soloing most of the time and I die maybe once every three or four missions.

    I mean, you can make charts and post statistic figures and point out how any other (or every other) defensive set is superior.

    It doesn't effect or change my play experience.

    Because WP is in pretty much every way superior. This isn't even a case where someone could point to concept, because there's really no conceptual difference between the sets, just a mechanical one. I don't think I'd ever make an Invuln again now that WP is around. I also found Ice to be a bit more survivable, when it comes to tanks. That's almost certainly due to having two panic buttons available.

    So at what level exactly do you crank things to consider this?

    I mean, there can't really be much of a difference solo or really even on teams except when faces with Psionic enemies; in these cases, a brute is going to kill things more quickly than he gets hurt pretty unanimously.

    Is it measured by just how big you can crank a given spawn before it becomes too much to handle? Because again, an Invuln, especially with their panic button up, isn't going to have trouble even with huge groups unless they're Psionic.

    I guess to me, it's like, yeah, the numbers are different, but put into play, the only difference I can actually witness seems to come up when there's a psychic bad guy around.

    See, that's the thing. You don't see a difference in survivability, which is great. Except one has Quick Recovery and the other doesn't.

    Whoops.

    And if I'm not running around out of stamina all the time, does it matter?

    INeedNoSalt on
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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Okay, so we have a high level mission we need to populate with a faction.

    I know, let's make it Family. We don't have any high level Family missions.

    We don't have any high level Family mobs though. Let's just use the ones we have and level-bump them.

    Oh wait, high level Family is really weak compared to other high level factions, because we haven't upgraded them like other factions that span multiple levels. Now people are farming the high level Family.

    I know, let's nerf high level Family exp.



    Who the hell is designing this game?

    hippofant on
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    PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    uh

    I run all my toggles, plus perma-Rage and Hasten about 75% of the time.

    I have Stamina triple-slotted, and some set Recovery bonuses.

    My SS/Invuln Brute never has End issues, even after a simultaneous Rage/Hasten crash (which always happens at some point in the mission, as they have the same duration).

    So uh, maybe I'm just playing really well with a mechanically inferior set?

    I'm comfortable with that, I guess.

    Pony on
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    HarshLanguageHarshLanguage Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Oh no, PLing will take slightly longer!

    HarshLanguage on
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    > turn on light

    Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
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    Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    They probably nerfed it more so because of PLing services. Not the general populace.

    Macro9 on
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    PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    TV farming was actually a pretty big problem redside, although it was bigger due to everyone going "OMG I NEED A 50 VILLAIN" since the announcement of VEATs.

    Pony on
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    PbPb Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Pb wrote: »
    See, that's the thing. You don't see a difference in survivability, which is great. Except one has Quick Recovery and the other doesn't.

    Whoops.

    And if I'm not running around out of stamina all the time, does it matter?

    This is the kind of statement that always makes me laugh. There is no melee set in this game that can't benefit from having both Stamina and QR. None. Whatever you were slotting for endurance before you could slot for mez, accuracy, damage or recharge with the additional end. Or, heck, you could skip Stamina and still have more endurance. I dunno, 2 extra powers? Seems worthless to me.

    Pb on
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    PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Quick Recovery is pretty huge.

    My BS/Regen scrapper doesn't have Stamina, and never runs out of Endurance ever.

    Pony on
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    INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Pb wrote: »
    Pb wrote: »
    See, that's the thing. You don't see a difference in survivability, which is great. Except one has Quick Recovery and the other doesn't.

    Whoops.

    And if I'm not running around out of stamina all the time, does it matter?

    This is the kind of statement that always makes me laugh. There is no melee set in this game that can't benefit from having both Stamina and QR. None. Whatever you were slotting for endurance before you could slot for mez, accuracy, damage or recharge with the additional end. Or, heck, you could skip Stamina and still have more endurance. I dunno, 2 extra powers? Seems worthless to me.

    Right, I could benefit, but I don't need them. I could kill things a tenth of a second more quickly, but I guess I don't see the need. I can footstomp bad guys into oblivion more quickly than any other character I've ever played, and I can do it without worrying about dying.

    More powers? What else would I take? Another attack? I don't have time enough to use the attacks I have as it is. Another travel power? No mechanical gain to that, either. More defenses? But I already have all of my defenses.

    Why do I want more Damage slots? I'm already at the ED cap. More accuracy? That's what I've got Rage for. Mez? I don't mez, I knockdown, and I don't want knockback. Recharge? I've got hasten three-slotted, and even when it's down, I've got more than enough attacks for a complete attack chains.

    And so on.

    I'm thinking the numerical discrepancy that exists is purely numerical for the most part.

    INeedNoSalt on
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    PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Pb wrote: »
    Pb wrote: »
    See, that's the thing. You don't see a difference in survivability, which is great. Except one has Quick Recovery and the other doesn't.

    Whoops.

    And if I'm not running around out of stamina all the time, does it matter?

    This is the kind of statement that always makes me laugh. There is no melee set in this game that can't benefit from having both Stamina and QR. None. Whatever you were slotting for endurance before you could slot for mez, accuracy, damage or recharge with the additional end. Or, heck, you could skip Stamina and still have more endurance. I dunno, 2 extra powers? Seems worthless to me.

    Right, I could benefit, but I don't need them. I could kill things a tenth of a second more quickly, but I guess I don't see the need. I can footstomp bad guys into oblivion more quickly than any other character I've ever played, and I can do it without worrying about dying.

    More powers? What else would I take? Another attack? I don't have time enough to use the attacks I have as it is. Another travel power? No mechanical gain to that, either. More defenses? But I already have all of my defenses.

    Why do I want more Damage slots? I'm already at the ED cap. More accuracy? That's what I've got Rage for. Mez? I don't mez, I knockdown, and I don't want knockback. Recharge? I've got hasten three-slotted, and even when it's down, I've got more than enough attacks for a complete attack chains.

    And so on.

    I'm thinking the numerical discrepancy that exists is purely numerical for the most part.

    I agree with this post.

    Pony on
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    INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Of course the entire post falls apart as soon as you say, "Okay, now tank the Psychic Clockwork King."

    But I totally agree that having a Psi hole sucks.

    INeedNoSalt on
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    PbPb Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Pb wrote: »
    Pb wrote: »
    See, that's the thing. You don't see a difference in survivability, which is great. Except one has Quick Recovery and the other doesn't.

    Whoops.

    And if I'm not running around out of stamina all the time, does it matter?

    This is the kind of statement that always makes me laugh. There is no melee set in this game that can't benefit from having both Stamina and QR. None. Whatever you were slotting for endurance before you could slot for mez, accuracy, damage or recharge with the additional end. Or, heck, you could skip Stamina and still have more endurance. I dunno, 2 extra powers? Seems worthless to me.

    Right, I could benefit, but I don't need them. I could kill things a tenth of a second more quickly, but I guess I don't see the need. I can footstomp bad guys into oblivion more quickly than any other character I've ever played, and I can do it without worrying about dying.

    More powers? What else would I take? Another attack? I don't have time enough to use the attacks I have as it is. Another travel power? No mechanical gain to that, either. More defenses? But I already have all of my defenses.

    Why do I want more Damage slots? I'm already at the ED cap. More accuracy? That's what I've got Rage for. Mez? I don't mez, I knockdown, and I don't want knockback. Recharge? I've got hasten three-slotted, and even when it's down, I've got more than enough attacks for a complete attack chains.

    And so on.

    I'm thinking the numerical discrepancy that exists is purely numerical for the most part.

    Yes, and for people like tankers I can't imagine how QR at 4 and Stamina at 20 might make the play experience a bit different. Two more powers at low levels, when you need them the most. You seem to forget there's a path to 50 more than I do.

    Pb on
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    CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I don't see why they don't just give high level family more powers and abilities to make them more challenging. Put in those Sing ularity spawning bosses from CoV as Lts in 40+ family or something.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
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    HarrierHarrier The Star Spangled Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    So, I've tried to update and engage my client of CoH... several times, actually, but every time, I've gotten an error right at the end and it's all been undone. Is there any way I can reinstall the client?

    Note that I don't have a CD.

    Harrier on
    I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
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    Gear GirlGear Girl More class than a state university Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Harrier wrote: »
    So, I've tried to update and engage my client of CoH... several times, actually, but every time, I've gotten an error right at the end and it's all been undone. Is there any way I can reinstall the client?

    Note that I don't have a CD.

    ftp://client.coh.com/US/CohUpdater.zip

    Gear Girl on
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    Gear GirlGear Girl More class than a state university Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Hmm so the Issue 12 preload is up.

    Gear Girl on
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    CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    That usually doesn't mean anything other than they're trying to temporally distribute some of the load off their download servers so they don't get nuked when I12 goes live.

    Didn't we have one issue where the pre-download happened like, six weeks before it went live?

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
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    WallhitterWallhitter Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    It's a stupid change, but, eh, I'm not THAT irked. That's like what, one mission on both sides? Seems pretty fucking outweighed by the GOOD things anyways.

    Wallhitter on
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    PbPb Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Man, from farming tonight, if they want to make Family more powerful they should just swap some LTs with boss types. Consigliere LTs in every spawn could be painful.

    Pb on
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    CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Thats where I come down. Buff Risk, instead of Nerf Reward.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Well, as a side effect of the Family change, all the Family in those missions are now spawning as Lieutenants, minimum. No Minions at all. Bosses in place of where Lts. used to be. This makes those spawns much much harder, especially in the TV mission where nearby Nemesis vengeance can also buff the Family.

    So they managed to both increase the risk and reduce the reward at the same time. Warwolves, anyone?

    whoops.jpg

    korodullin on
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    AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    s3rial one wrote: »
    This seriously wouldn't bother me if it worked in both directions. Family are pretty easy. As level 50 mobs go, they're pitiful. But it's always being adjusted down. Not once have they every said "Well, since Longbow nullifiers are so dangerous, we're going to give them boss-level experience values."

    Actually they did that long ago but with whole groups instead of the individual types of mobs in the groups. The most difficult groups were given bonus EXP for defeating them, I specifically remember Devouring Earth being one of those groups.

    The Family EXP nerf is kind of dumb, or at the very least too extreme.

    Accualt on
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    CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    These roman enemy dudes are interesting. Alot of them appear to be hold/stun resistant.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
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    WallhitterWallhitter Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Corvus wrote: »
    These roman enemy dudes are interesting. Alot of them appear to be hold/stun resistant.

    I love em'. They're perfect for my BS/Inv to farm. Seriously, I can tank like three-four of the fortress spawn groups.

    Wallhitter on
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    LepLep Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I know the bosses have kb protection.

    Lep on
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    RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Corvus wrote: »
    These roman enemy dudes are interesting. Alot of them appear to be hold/stun resistant.

    Man, I was about to yell about hold resistances and then I remembered I've got a Mind Dom and an Ill Controller. Holds are for suckers. Fear and confuse are where it's at.

    Ringo on
    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
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    WallhitterWallhitter Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Yay, I get my 48 month vet reward today.

    Wallhitter on
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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Enjoy watching your ultra-fragile mildly buffing (but completely non-attacking) pet charge the nearest enemy every time...

    see317 on
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    Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    You could always pick up grant invis if it was a big deal.

    Macro9 on
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    übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Soo...VEATs. Did they get some random group of Freedom Corps or Longbow with a superweapon to make playing your VEAT a chore......or fuck my Kheld and work on getting a VEAT?

    übergeek on
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    HarshLanguageHarshLanguage Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    see317 wrote: »
    Enjoy watching your ultra-fragile mildly buffing (but completely non-attacking) pet charge the nearest enemy every time...

    Apparently that's a bug. If I understand Castle's post about it correctly: There were supposed to have an attack at one point, but that plan was dropped. The AI however still causes them to try to attack, hence the suicide runs. They'll fix it.

    HarshLanguage on
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    > turn on light

    Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
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    RialeRiale I'm a little slow Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Soo...VEATs. Did they get some random group of Freedom Corps or Longbow with a superweapon to make playing your VEAT a chore......or fuck my Kheld and work on getting a VEAT?

    They don't have any specific killer mobs unique to them, but if you ask me fighting longbow redside is enough a nemesis for any AT.

    As for quantums and voids, I don't know how often you play your Kheldian but they were nerfed a bit not too long ago. I haven't heard too many complaints about them since.

    Riale on
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    WallhitterWallhitter Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    übergeek wrote: »
    Soo...VEATs. Did they get some random group of Freedom Corps or Longbow with a superweapon to make playing your VEAT a chore......or fuck my Kheld and work on getting a VEAT?

    The latter. Simply put, let me use this analogy to describe VEATs

    Two guys go to two different restaurants and order a steak.

    The first guy, Mr. Blue gets what looks like horribly burned-to-a-crisp rat with a few leaves pulled off of a tree.

    The second guy, Mr. Red, gets the most goddamn delicious-looking juicy-assed steak ever.

    It's an inelegant analogy but it GETS THE POINT ACROSS.

    Wallhitter on
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    HarrierHarrier The Star Spangled Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I'm still not able to get into the damn game. Specifically, I keep getting 'debug assertion failed' error messages right out of the gate.

    Harrier on
    I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Wallhitter wrote: »
    Soo...VEATs. Did they get some random group of Freedom Corps or Longbow with a superweapon to make playing your VEAT a chore......or fuck my Kheld and work on getting a VEAT?
    The latter. Simply put, let me use this analogy to describe the two sides
    Two guys go to two different restaurants and order a steak.
    The first guy, Mr. Blue gets what looks like horribly burned-to-a-crisp rat with a few leaves pulled off of a tree.
    The second guy, Mr. Red, gets the most goddamn delicious-looking juicy-assed steak ever.
    It's an inelegant analogy but it GETS THE POINT ACROSS.

    Glal on
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    WallhitterWallhitter Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Glal wrote: »
    Wallhitter wrote: »
    Soo...VEATs. Did they get some random group of Freedom Corps or Longbow with a superweapon to make playing your VEAT a chore......or fuck my Kheld and work on getting a VEAT?
    The latter. Simply put, let me use this analogy to describe the two sides
    Two guys go to two different restaurants and order a steak.
    The first guy, Mr. Blue gets what looks like horribly burned-to-a-crisp rat with a few leaves pulled off of a tree.
    The second guy, Mr. Red, gets the most goddamn delicious-looking juicy-assed steak ever.
    It's an inelegant analogy but it GETS THE POINT ACROSS.

    Eh, not really, dude. Heroes have slightly more balanced ATs, less frustrating zones...

    Wallhitter on
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Is the closest thing to dragon wings, the devil wings that you get as a veteran?

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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