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Polyamory
real_pochacco
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
From the wiki:
Polyamory is the desire, practice, or acceptance of having more than one loving, intimate relationship at a time with the full knowledge and consent of everyone involved.
Polyamory can take many forms, including:
One man with several women (and/or men)
One woman with several men (and/or women)
Several different people all in a relationship with each other
Two couples that swap occasionally
And all kinds of other permutations. Each one of them comes with their own set of particular difficulties and benefits, no doubt. I wanted to make this thread mainly because polyamory has, for better or for worse, been a part of my life for a long freakin' time. My parents have been/still are in polyamorous relationships (though divorced now), I've known older friends in polyamorous relationships, and somehow I found myself in a polyamorous relationship over the past year. It's required a lot of introspection and deliberation for me, because there all kinds of factors that have to be weighed. I think I'll just go through a simple list of pros and cons, in order to organize my thoughts.
Pros
- There are a lot of people in the world, and polyamorous relationships let you explore more of the possibilities you can have with people. Limiting your deep emotional and physical intimacy to one person limits the worlds you can explore within another person.
- On the other hand, sometimes monogamous relationships encourage clinginess and dependency that can be harmful or suffocating to another person. Having multiple partners can help prevent emotional energy from being to focused on any one single person.
- Simply put, most people tend to desire more than one person, and polyamory can allow those desires to be transformed from unacceptable urges into acceptable, perhaps even encouraged, ones.
Cons
- There is a lot of possibility for drama. Even with just two people, a lot of drama can go down, but when you add more people the chance and intensity of drama exponentially increases.
- In some situations, people may agree to be in a polyamorous relationship despite their desires for monogamy. That is, people may sacrifice monogamy in order to be with the person they are in love with, if that person is unwilling to be monogamous. I've found myself in this situation, and I'm still on the fence about it. On the one hand, people should have the ability to choose whatever life situation they want to have, and each person gets to decide whether polyamory is worth the costs for them. But does "real" polyamory demand that every person be completely 100 percent "ok with" polyamory? I'm not sure.
- Children and polyamory don't mix. Trust me, I know this one from first hand experience. If you are going to be having kids, ditch somebody, jesus. It might sound like a cool idea -- "We'll all raise the kids together!" -- but no good will come of it. It's basically a recipe for a clusterfuck.
- Society looks down upon people in polyamorous relationships. I didn't quite know about this one until my lovers started telling me the conversations they would have with their friends. Basically, everyone they talked to thought they were absolutely nuts and being completely taken advantage of, and that "no woman in her right mind would be in that sort of relationship." On my end, people who knew about the situation would talk to me like I was some kind of abuser or total asshole. Some people told me that "No matter what they say, no one can truly consent to that kind of relationship, and you are just taking advantage of others."
Aaaaand discuss.
Polyamory is the desire, practice, or acceptance of having more than one loving, intimate relationship at a time with the full knowledge and consent of everyone involved.
Polyamory can take many forms, including:
One man with several women (and/or men)
One woman with several men (and/or women)
Several different people all in a relationship with each other
Two couples that swap occasionally
And all kinds of other permutations. Each one of them comes with their own set of particular difficulties and benefits, no doubt. I wanted to make this thread mainly because polyamory has, for better or for worse, been a part of my life for a long freakin' time. My parents have been/still are in polyamorous relationships (though divorced now), I've known older friends in polyamorous relationships, and somehow I found myself in a polyamorous relationship over the past year. It's required a lot of introspection and deliberation for me, because there all kinds of factors that have to be weighed. I think I'll just go through a simple list of pros and cons, in order to organize my thoughts.
Pros
- There are a lot of people in the world, and polyamorous relationships let you explore more of the possibilities you can have with people. Limiting your deep emotional and physical intimacy to one person limits the worlds you can explore within another person.
- On the other hand, sometimes monogamous relationships encourage clinginess and dependency that can be harmful or suffocating to another person. Having multiple partners can help prevent emotional energy from being to focused on any one single person.
- Simply put, most people tend to desire more than one person, and polyamory can allow those desires to be transformed from unacceptable urges into acceptable, perhaps even encouraged, ones.
Cons
- There is a lot of possibility for drama. Even with just two people, a lot of drama can go down, but when you add more people the chance and intensity of drama exponentially increases.
- In some situations, people may agree to be in a polyamorous relationship despite their desires for monogamy. That is, people may sacrifice monogamy in order to be with the person they are in love with, if that person is unwilling to be monogamous. I've found myself in this situation, and I'm still on the fence about it. On the one hand, people should have the ability to choose whatever life situation they want to have, and each person gets to decide whether polyamory is worth the costs for them. But does "real" polyamory demand that every person be completely 100 percent "ok with" polyamory? I'm not sure.
- Children and polyamory don't mix. Trust me, I know this one from first hand experience. If you are going to be having kids, ditch somebody, jesus. It might sound like a cool idea -- "We'll all raise the kids together!" -- but no good will come of it. It's basically a recipe for a clusterfuck.
- Society looks down upon people in polyamorous relationships. I didn't quite know about this one until my lovers started telling me the conversations they would have with their friends. Basically, everyone they talked to thought they were absolutely nuts and being completely taken advantage of, and that "no woman in her right mind would be in that sort of relationship." On my end, people who knew about the situation would talk to me like I was some kind of abuser or total asshole. Some people told me that "No matter what they say, no one can truly consent to that kind of relationship, and you are just taking advantage of others."
Aaaaand discuss.
real_pochacco on
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I agree with the "Children and polyamory don't mix," though. Once you have kids, you have to start looking out for interests beyond your own.
Which is why I support a constitutional ban on same sex adoption.
Wait, WHAT? o_O
What are you talking about
I don't see the difference between a three way relationship and a relationship between same sex couples. Therefore I find the idea that 'polyamory' is somehow bad for child-rearing while same sex adoption isn't nutso. They should both have the ability to raise children, is what I'm saying.
Parents fight about nothing more than how to raise their kids. I'd imagine adding more people with a vested interest in seeing the kid grow up well adjusted would only multiply the drama to great degrees
Why don't you?
What's the difference between a three way relationship and a relationship between opposite sex couples, then, that doesn't exist when you compare it to same sex couples?
Sounds like you were in love with the wrong person.
I think you're extending what Doc said a bit too far there.
Most people don't have the emotional maturity and self-assuredness necessary for a normal two person relationship, either.
I mean, it's not impossible, it's just a bad idea.
Nothing that I'd see that would make me think one shouldn't be inherently unable to raise a healthy child.
I think attitudes like this are exactly what keep these discussions from going anywhere productive. I have never read a polyamory thread that doesn't devolve into self-congratulation and backhanded insults against "normals" or "mundanes" or whatever the retarded current nom du nerd is. Unusual sexual arrangements do not actually constitute being a more evolved human being.
How many people raised you? Just two? No grandparents, aunts/uncles, sisters/brothers, teachers, mentors, etc?
I don't have a problem with more than one person helping to "raise" a child. I think the better point is that a person in a polyamorous relationship is probably thinking of themself a lot more than they would think of a child, because of the whole "let's explore different people and have lots of experiences and fun and etc." There's nothing wrong with that, but having a child forces you to be selfless and devote yourself to the child. That's hard to do when you are also focusing on multiple amorous partners and fulfilling your own amorous needs.
Hm that's a crudely put paragraph but I hope you catch my meaning.
Ah ok so you don't see a difference between a three way relationship and a relationship between any type of couple, then?
I actually read that as "you must be emotionally mature and self assured for polyamory to work." From my understanding it did not mean "If you are not ok with polyamory you must not be emotionally mature or self assured."
Like I'd really have to try at it.
I couldn't agree with this more. I haven't had a particularly good time with poly, but certainly support it in theory. The poly/libertarian wing of the internet is filled with invective against "sheeple" or whatever and a strange urge to elevate themselves over the society they have such a hard time fitting in with.
The biggest theoretical problem for me is time management. If people have jobs that are remotely demanding, it's hard to see how you can develop and sustain a meaningful relationship with more than one person - forming a bond does require one on one time even if it can be nurtured or grown in the context of everyone hanging out.
I can think of two objections off the top of my head: firstly, that multiple-partner relationships might not supply the requisite amount of stability. (And while I realize that monogamy is hardly stable either, a huge percentage of divorces happen either in childless "starter" marriages or after the kids have left home.)
Secondly, that a parent dividing their time and "emotional intimacy" - I'm assuming that this is polyamory and not just a fuckbuddy/guest-star scenario - among many partners has that much less time for their child. We all know there are consequences for children whose parents devote (either by choice or necessity) inordinate amounts of time to their work; how can the same not be true of people who fritter that time away with relationships? The obvious objection to this is that perhaps the extra partner(s) will pick up the slack, but speaking as somebody with a stepparent I can assure you that this is hardly an adequate substitute.
You obviously don't have the reliable source that I have:
Yep, that that is exactly what I meant.
But hey, if jacob is seeing insults where there are none, that is perhaps he is not emotionally mature and self-assured! :P
Nothing that would instantly disqualify anyone in it from raising a healthy child.
That Ege02 likes obama is enough to make me vote mccain
Yours is a spectacularly generous reading. "Most people do not possess these incredible traits that I arrogate to myself" has historically not been a construction that has endeared its speaker to me.
EDIT: of course, many times that speaker has been ege, so there's that
The way you interpret a neutral statement has a lot to say about your character, jacob.
Broad networks of family work great because, while everyone can chip in and help out and provide guidance and love, there's the understanding that the parents are the rule makers. When there's disagreement, they win out. There's no question of what to do when mom and grandma disagree over proper punishment - mom has the trump card.
When you have 3 or 4 or however many parents, you're going to have a whole fuckton of arguments. Throw that on top of issues of sharing quality time, standard jealousy issues (they exist even in two-parent families, and more parents makes it worse), and lots of other problems, and polyamorous families become a giant clusterfuck.
Polyamory is fine and dandy if you can handle the challenges therein (most people can't - I sure couldn't), but when it comes to children, pick a single fuckpartner and be done with it.
No, that is no the implication at all, because the fact that you're in a more conventional relationship does not necessarily mean you cannot make do with a polyamorous one.
Many kids have 4 parents nowadays, anyway, via divorce.
From what I can tell, the key to a good polyamorous relationship is that every person in the group has to be getting exactly what they need out of it, no less. If each separate relationship would function properly in a monogamous setting, you're in good shape.
It's easier when there are different kinds of attitudes involved. For example, I've known guys/girls who REALLY need their space, and can only stand to share space with their partners a few times a week. If they see too much of a person, it tends to drive them away. On the other side of the spectrum, there are of course the needy types who want to spend a lot of time with the person(s) they care about. A lot of the best polyamorous relationships I've seen involve some combination of the two - seeing the low-maintenance people a few times a week, and the high-maintenance types the rest of the time. Everyone gets the level of interaction they want, and everyone is happy (it helps when you're all friends).
I've been pretty soured on the whole idea in my own life, as I'm relatively needy myself and like to see my girlfriend more than once or twice a week. Most girls who have suggested it to me didn't actually want a relationship with me (or the other guys/girls) - it was just code for "I want to stay single and keep dating and sleep with a bunch of my friends while maintaining an emotional distance from all of them." It does the whole notion a disservice, I'd say.
Basically, polyamory requires an incredible amount of maturity, communication, trust, and understanding - with not a little bit of luck and mutual friendship amongst all the given parties. Most people aren't capable of it. Many people think they are capable of it, or appropriate the term when they really just want to date a bunch of people, and end up hurting people pretty badly. In general, most people are only cut out for monogamy, if only because that's the way they've been socialized.
Quoted for truth and win.
Exactly.
Maturity is a necessary but not sufficient condition for polyamory to work.
And ege is right. Most people don't have the necessary maturity. What he left out is that some people have the necessary maturity, but aren't interested in it for completely different reasons.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Your splitting semantic hairs would be more convincing if your premise wasn't so ridiculously oversimplified to begin with. A person's ability to handle polyamory is a measure of a person's ability to handle polyamory. That's it. The only way your statement would have any truth value is if polyamorous people were, on average, better able to handle challenges to "emotional maturity" and "self-assuredness" than run-of-the-mill folk. I've seen little evidence that that's the case - and even if it were, you'd then have to see if that difference couldn't be explained by the predictable self-esteem boost of having multiple sex partners. (Put simply, is a polyamorist happier or more mature than a swinger?)