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[Quickie] Secrets and Signifigant Others
DVG
No. 1 Honor StudentNether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered User regular
No. 1 Honor StudentNether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered User regular
I find myself for the first time in many, many years happily in a relationship with a great girl, who I have liked for a very long time. I don't anticipate this ever being a big problem, but I wanted to get some other folks thoughts on exactly how I should deal with an issue regarding one of her ex's/a mutual friend of ours, by the name of J.
Essentialy, this guy, J, is now dating another friend of mine, K. K enjoys doing coke every now and again, and I know that J did it with her on at least one or two occasions. Neither of these people tried to hide this fact from me when I was hanging out with them, and they haven't shown any signs of continuing with the activity in the last several months. Seemed like they were just doing it at that specific time. J had asked me not to mention what he was doing to any of our other friends, just because he didn't feel like being hassled about it. Being a real "Do what you want on your own time" sort of person, I of course agreed.
Fast forward to today, my S.O. and I are having lunch, and we're talking about J and K who recently got together. My S.O., who knows of K's occasional enjoyment of coke, mentions that the only thing that worries her about those two being together is that J will start doing that as well, and confesses that apparently J had spent some time in rehab a long time ago (before I knew him) because of a coke habit.
To reiterate, as far as I know they aren't making a habit out of this activity. K was doing it a bunch in a short span of time, and J joined her on a couple occasions, but I haven't seen or heard anything about said activity in months, so I don't have much reason to think that they are continuing doing it. At the same time, I don't like telling even little white lies to my girl, and feel like I should tell her since it's a concern for her, and just try to convince her that I'll do my best to keep an eye on our friend so he doesn't get himself into a full-on relapse situation.
Essentialy, this guy, J, is now dating another friend of mine, K. K enjoys doing coke every now and again, and I know that J did it with her on at least one or two occasions. Neither of these people tried to hide this fact from me when I was hanging out with them, and they haven't shown any signs of continuing with the activity in the last several months. Seemed like they were just doing it at that specific time. J had asked me not to mention what he was doing to any of our other friends, just because he didn't feel like being hassled about it. Being a real "Do what you want on your own time" sort of person, I of course agreed.
Fast forward to today, my S.O. and I are having lunch, and we're talking about J and K who recently got together. My S.O., who knows of K's occasional enjoyment of coke, mentions that the only thing that worries her about those two being together is that J will start doing that as well, and confesses that apparently J had spent some time in rehab a long time ago (before I knew him) because of a coke habit.
To reiterate, as far as I know they aren't making a habit out of this activity. K was doing it a bunch in a short span of time, and J joined her on a couple occasions, but I haven't seen or heard anything about said activity in months, so I don't have much reason to think that they are continuing doing it. At the same time, I don't like telling even little white lies to my girl, and feel like I should tell her since it's a concern for her, and just try to convince her that I'll do my best to keep an eye on our friend so he doesn't get himself into a full-on relapse situation.
Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
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This is a secret you don't keep. You're not telling out of gossip or personal gain, but concern for the health of people around you. Consider this: would you keep it a secret if a friend confessed to wanting to kill himself, despite his explicit wishes you not tell? Of course not. This is in the same category.
You run the risk of having this chap feel you betrayed him, but that's a minimal concern given the potential gravity of the habit at hand.
Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
Anyway, you promised J not to say anything, and you should hold to that. If you don't want to be put in this situation in the future, make sure you tell whoever's confiding in you that you don't feel right hiding things from your significant other, so they should know that before they tell you secrets.
Don't make a big fuss about it, let him know that you didn't tell your SO anything, but let him know that you're uncomfortable keeping it a secret, and ask if you could maybe tell her.
A promise is a promise, and breaking one isn't the best idea, but there's no harm in asking him if you can tell. Minimal deception on all sides is the way to go.
I don't agree with drugs and/or keeping secrets from a SO, but this is a situation where you aren't really keeping secrets from your SO, you're just not going forward with the very limited information you have. She already knows he has had an addiction to coke, so just carry on like you don't really know what he's doing now, because you don't.
On the other hand, if you're looking around and you start seeing signs that he might be picking up an addiction to it, by all means. But if it looks like he hasn't done it in several months, I don't see a reason to push it.
Given that you can be court-ordered into rehab when you haven't actually done any drugs (possession alone is usually enough), that's some really shaky-ass ground to decide it's your place to start intervening.
Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
As for the subject matter - If you hear of him doing it again, things change. Someone who has already been through rehab for something as bad as coke may need help staying off it (especially when with someone who does it still because, really, coke is pretty nasty stuff that isn't exactly easy to break from by one's self).
If you trust your SO, tell her. It will ease her conscience to know that while, yes, he did it... it was awhile ago and you know of no more recent events. It will also prevent her from being angry at you for not saying anything about something for which she feels strongly if/when she does find out. Lastly, it will let you two talk about options for helping J if he does get hooked on the shit again.
Murphy's Paradox: The more you plan, the more that can go wrong. The less you plan, the less likely your plan will succeed.
It's just a problem that's manageable, until it isn't
Seriously, no one does coke casually the way people can drink casually or even smoke pot or do shrooms casually. It's just a problem that starts small.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Which is why I was scratching my head when people said, "Well if you see him starting again..."
That feels like way too late.
Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
No, he can't. Sure, he thinks he can. Every addict thinks they can. That's just the stage of addiction they're at. He's going to do it "because he feels like it" and not because he "has to". In reality it's the drug distorting his perception and making him feel like it and he's gonna feel like it more and more. If he hasn't committed to being 100% clean for now and forever, he will relapse. Even if he does commit to never touching it again, there's still always going to be temptation and that's the sneaky, shitty nature of an addiction like that.
This is the worst part about the DARE bullshit they shove down your throats trying to teach you that every drug is a one way trip to fucksville. You hear that, then you try weed and you realize hey, this ain't so bad and I'm not robbing grannies at gunpoint either and soon enough everything they've told you is suddenly so very questionable because they mixed in a bunch of lies. Here's the awful part: A lot of the shit they said IS true, it's just not true of every drug. Coke? That's one of the shitty ones that it IS true about.
You go ahead and tell yourself that there's such a thing as non-addicted cocaine use. It doesn't exist beyond the first hit. The second you decide to try it again just to see if it's different this time? That's where it starts working its way into your brain. Anyone who's willing to try cocaine now and again is just on the slow part of the descent, and it's gonna speed up if you don't get off of it. It's always going to speed up and it only ever goes down.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
Do you have any evidence there besides a lot of scary stories? Because I've got plenty of anecdata showing the opposite, if that's all we're talking about.
Cocaine has been proven time and time again to be a powerful positive reinforcer. It's been proven to be both chemically and psychologically addictive in ways that no other drug can claim.
The effect I was discussing was the positive reinforcement aspect of it. It encourages its own use, and it does so in a very powerful way. When you use cocaine because you "want" to, you're doing it because the drug makes you want to. That's the wonderful magic of psychologically addictive compounds that can provide positive reinforcement. You can do it for years before the addiction becomes a problem, or you can do it for weeks before it becomes a problem, and you can even quit before the addiction becomes a problem. That doesn't mean you're not addicted, though.
If you can provide some evidence that proves cocaine to not have those properties, that's great. But you won't, and if you're going to get all "but my buddy so and so does it every now and then and he says he's not addicted" you can just stop right now. That doesn't make it good advice to cover for someone's cocaine use.
And for the record, anyone I date deserves to know that I drink on the weekends and occasionally enjoy a joint. The same would be true if I were into harder drugs, and if it came down to quitting something or losing someone, then it'd be up to me to make that decision, not to simply hide what I was doing. Especially if what I was doing was as incredibly addictive as cocaine.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
The friend isn't asking DVG to cover for his cocaine use, he's asking him not to mention that he's done cocaine in the past to other people. There's no reason for DVG to tell DVG's girlfriend that J did coke a few months before; J's girlfriend was the one he did the coke with, so she already knows. He'd be breaking his promise for no good reason. If my friend asks me to keep something quiet, I don't have carte blanche to tell my boyfriend, especially if he's just curious about it.
This isn't the thread to debate addiction, but I've heard the same arguments coming from people about several other drugs, MMORPGs, gambling, etc.. Obviously coke provides reinforcement to keep doing it; that's because it's fun. It's not, however, chemically addictive, other than the "it's fun and people like to keep doing fun things" part. You don't get withdrawal coming off it, people having problems quitting need therapy and not rehab, it's very possible to have an occaisional coke habit. J used to do coke. He did it with his girlfriend a couple months ago and apparently hasn't done it since. This definitely doesn't seem like the OP needs to stage an intervention or break trust with his friend, no matter what doomsaying goes on.
Okay that's something I missed. There's probably no reason to say anything then. Sorry for misreading that bit.
I will however point out that anyone stating that cocaine is not chemically addictive has no idea what they're saying, what with it being one of the most profoundly chemically addictive compounds we've ever discovered. There are mountains of research on this. There is evidence of this in mice, in primates, and in humans.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
I don't want to stray too far OT here, but I will put the following in a spoiler.
Not having withdrawl =\= not chemically addictive. Cocaine is a potent, powerfully addictive substance because of the very pleasure/reward systems in the brain.
It's "fun" because it's releasing endorphins and flooding your brain with dopamine. When you start to study neurology seriously you see what a problem this is.
What are some of your most powerful memories? Probably the ones that were the most emotionally charged. That's because the way the brain determines what's important and what's not, what's to be remembered and what's to be forgotten, and what's to be sought and what's to be shunned, is positive and negative reinforcement. Cocaine blocks the re-absorption of the very chemical that you feel when you gaze at someone you love, the thing that makes us feel great on a summer day, the thing that gets released during orgasm. Dopamine is thus present in your brain for longer periods.
You may have known all this. But to know all this, and still say cocaine isn't "physically addictive" is to say you know but don't understand any of it.
Is it possible for people to do coke casually? Yes. Is it possible for people to do coke and then never do it again? Of course.
But that doesn't mean it's not one of the most powerfully addictive and self-reinforcing drugs one can do. It makes you feel like a superstar, and who doesn't want to feel that way as much as possible?
There is what MikeMan is calling "chemical addiction" which is where a drug alters the ability of the brain to produce, transport, or respond to a certain neurotransmitter. In cocaine's case, it alters the way the brain uses dopamine and serotonin. In this regard, cocaine is highly chemically addictive.
And then there is what most people call "physical addiction," which is where a drug interferes with the functioning of organs other than the brain or causes withdrawal symptoms that feel or appear physical in nature - like chills, shakes, stomach cramps, nausea, constipation, etc. (I prefer the term "somatic withdrawal" for this because "physical addiction" is too loaded and vague.) Cocaine does not cause physical addiction in any significant way. However, that does not mean it's not addictive. It is still highly addictive.
Now, there are plenty of people out there who can use cocaine on an occasional basis and not get hooked. Somebody who was once in rehab for cocaine addiction is probably not one of those people. But I echo what other people have said about the situation. It's good to be wary and stay cautious of J slipping back into old addictive patterns, but for now it does not demand action on DVG's part.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Agreed. I just wanted to clear up the misconception that no withdrawl symptoms =\= physically addictive.
Your brain is part of your body.