Then why is everybody acting so surprised when the Wii kicks the 360 and PS3 ass every time NPD numbers are released?
Who is still suprised at this point?
All the handwringing people in this thread for starters. And I won't even bring up GAF.
You just pretty much did.
What I am suprised about is the lack of a HD console increase due to GTA4. No one should be suprised when the Wii sells a lot. The only people acting suprised in here are the Wii fanboys. And I think its just a way to rub it in all of our faces.
MistaCreepy on
PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
The surprise comes from the expectations. First there's the Wii, which last month posted the first 700+k non-holiday month for a console since June 2002. Which is already a crazy number, but then out did that mark this month, selling more per week with April a 4-week month and March a 5-week month.
On the other end everyone and their mother expected some kind of bump for the PS3 and 360 riding GTAIV. I thought I lowballed them going 300k.
I know 'GAF lol' but their aggregate predictions give you an idea of what the community is expecting (155 people), and everyone undershot the Wii (623k) and overshot the PS3/360 (325k). In fact the lowest prediction for those 2 was 230k for the PS3 and 238k for the 360. People knew the Wii would outsell the field, but the margin surprised [strike]many[/strike] everyone and then the subsequent "what happened to the GTA boost?".
edit: additionally I think we got suckered by the PR. Rockstar came out with the $500 million opening and both Microsoft and Sony flashed the "consoles sales are up 50 some-odd%".
Then why is everybody acting so surprised when the Wii kicks the 360 and PS3 ass every time NPD numbers are released?
Who is still suprised at this point?
All the handwringing people in this thread for starters. And I won't even bring up GAF.
You just pretty much did.
What I am suprised about is the lack of a HD console increase due to GTA4. No one should be suprised when the Wii sells a lot. The only people acting suprised in here are the Wii fanboys. And I think its just a way to rub it in all of our faces.
Actually, I'm surprised every time. I really thought 360 had this game in the bag, even though I got the Wii a month after it was released, and had to stand in line in the cold before Target opened for that.
It doesn't make any sense.
What I am suprised about is the lack of a HD console increase due to GTA4. No one should be suprised when the Wii sells a lot. The only people acting suprised in here are the Wii fanboys. And I think its just a way to rub it in all of our faces.
Err, be careful with using "our". I'd like to think the patrons of the PA-VGST are a lot more mature than the GAF folks, where we don't take business matters so personally. You shouldn't either!
Anyway, there is genuine surprise that the 360/PS3 didn't pick up a noticeable hardware bump from GTA IV. But I've seen some good attempts at explaining why (mine included).
What ever console has hits like Carnival Games, of course.
I've got a coworker who, along with her boyfriend, has all 3 consoles. She's a big fan of the Wii, and she's in every sense of the word a "casual gamer." Very excited for Guitar Hero months after it's been out, loves Wii Play, and couldn't care less for a game's "estimated hours" or online play.
But hell if she's at all predictable. She got super excited for an updated Frogger. And she was falling over herself when "Lemmonings" came out on the Playstation network.
SUCK it DOWN, "NEXT" GEN! Wii RULES! 360 HAD A GOOD RUN, BUT IT'S TIME TO DUMP IT! FIRST TO 10 MILLION IN THE DUMPSTER! WOOOOOOO!
Err, be careful with using "our". I'd like to think the patrons of the PA-VGST are a lot more mature than the GAF folks, where we don't take business matters so personally. You shouldn't either!
Damnit... :P
Seriously though, it's not a big deal. Who cares if some people gloat? It's not like they had anything to do with a companies fortunes, besides maybe adding a +1.
What I am suprised about is the lack of a HD console increase due to GTA4. No one should be suprised when the Wii sells a lot. The only people acting suprised in here are the Wii fanboys. And I think its just a way to rub it in all of our faces.
Err, be careful with using "our". I'd like to think the patrons of the PA-VGST are a lot more mature than the GAF folks, where we don't take business matters so personally. You shouldn't either!
Anyway, there is genuine surprise that the 360/PS3 didn't pick up a noticeable hardware bump from GTA IV. But I've seen some good attempts at explaining why (mine included).
Whether you like it or not there is a very serious matter being decided here. The biggest game of this gen didn't move consoles. Nothing else will. This is a very clear picture to developers on what the console of choice is here. And its not as simple as that. Last gen all 3 consoles were pretty interchangable. What was released on the GC could be ported to the PS2 and XBOX and visa versa. This is not the case here. Things produced for the Wii cannot be ported to the 360 and PS3 becuase of control schemes and disk space and things produced for the 360 and PS3 cannot be ported to the Wii for graphical reasons. If the Wii keeps this breakneck pace over both of them combined, it would be dumb to even consider putting big projects on the HD consoles. The only thing that the HD consoles have left going for them is their good software sales for third parties. If the Wii can catch up to them there... game over.
MistaCreepy on
PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
I think the evidence is clear the set of all persons who are willing to spend $400+ to play GTA4 are really the same set of people (more or less) that are willing to spend $400+ to play (Halo3, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, COD4, Uncharted, etc, etc).
The law of diminishing returns applies even to system pushing games, after you have released a few of them,
the next "system pushing" game has no more room to push.
What I am suprised about is the lack of a HD console increase due to GTA4. No one should be suprised when the Wii sells a lot. The only people acting suprised in here are the Wii fanboys. And I think its just a way to rub it in all of our faces.
Err, be careful with using "our". I'd like to think the patrons of the PA-VGST are a lot more mature than the GAF folks, where we don't take business matters so personally. You shouldn't either!
Anyway, there is genuine surprise that the 360/PS3 didn't pick up a noticeable hardware bump from GTA IV. But I've seen some good attempts at explaining why (mine included).
Whether you like it or not there is a very serious matter being decided here. The biggest game of this gen didn't move consoles. Nothing else will. This is a very clear picture to developers on what the console of choice is here. And its not as simple as that. Last gen all 3 consoles were pretty interchangable. What was released on the GC could be ported to the PS2 and XBOX and visa versa. This is not the case here. Things produced for the Wii cannot be ported to the 360 and PS3 becuase of control schemes and disk space and things produced for the 360 and PS3 cannot be ported to the Wii for graphical reasons. If the Wii keeps this breakneck pace over both of them combined, it would be dumb to even consider putting big projects on the HD consoles. The only thing that the HD consoles have left going for them is their good software sales for third parties. If the Wii can catch up to them there... game over.
Back away from the ledge! Don't jump! You've still got a lot to live for. FFXIII is still coming out soon, right? :P
All kidding aside, I do think you're being much too pessimistic. The Wii has already been successful for a while now. Guess what? Developers are still making and announcing hardcore games for the PC, 360, and PS3. Now they also have another viable platform whereas they can make money. I think that's a great thing for the industry.
GTA IV, even though it didn't move hardware, still sold millions of copies. Now, if those sales started drying up, as well as sales for other big-budget, typically hardcore, franchises ... then you might have a point. But they're not. It appears that the industry is just broadening itself, and that's actually a very good thing.
What I am suprised about is the lack of a HD console increase due to GTA4. No one should be suprised when the Wii sells a lot. The only people acting suprised in here are the Wii fanboys. And I think its just a way to rub it in all of our faces.
Err, be careful with using "our". I'd like to think the patrons of the PA-VGST are a lot more mature than the GAF folks, where we don't take business matters so personally. You shouldn't either!
Anyway, there is genuine surprise that the 360/PS3 didn't pick up a noticeable hardware bump from GTA IV. But I've seen some good attempts at explaining why (mine included).
Whether you like it or not there is a very serious matter being decided here. The biggest game of this gen didn't move consoles. Nothing else will. This is a very clear picture to developers on what the console of choice is here. And its not as simple as that. Last gen all 3 consoles were pretty interchangable. What was released on the GC could be ported to the PS2 and XBOX and visa versa. This is not the case here. Things produced for the Wii cannot be ported to the 360 and PS3 becuase of control schemes and disk space and things produced for the 360 and PS3 cannot be ported to the Wii for graphical reasons. If the Wii keeps this breakneck pace over both of them combined, it would be dumb to even consider putting big projects on the HD consoles. The only thing that the HD consoles have left going for them is their good software sales for third parties. If the Wii can catch up to them there... game over.
Back away from the ledge! Don't jump! You've still got a lot to live for. FFXIII is still coming out soon, right? :P
All kidding aside, I do think you're being much too pessimistic. The Wii has already been successful for a while now. Guess what? Developers are still making and announcing hardcore games for the PC, 360, and PS3. Now they also have another viable platform whereas they can make money. I think that's a great thing for the industry.
GTA IV, even though it didn't move hardware, still sold millions of copies. Now, if those sales started drying up, as well as sales for other big-budget, typically hardcore, franchises ... then you might have a point. But they're not. It appears that the industry is just broadening itself, and that's actually a very good thing.
Well either way if things go too badly I can just save my money next gen and upgrade my PC. :P
MistaCreepy on
PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
What I am suprised about is the lack of a HD console increase due to GTA4. No one should be suprised when the Wii sells a lot. The only people acting suprised in here are the Wii fanboys. And I think its just a way to rub it in all of our faces.
Err, be careful with using "our". I'd like to think the patrons of the PA-VGST are a lot more mature than the GAF folks, where we don't take business matters so personally. You shouldn't either!
Anyway, there is genuine surprise that the 360/PS3 didn't pick up a noticeable hardware bump from GTA IV. But I've seen some good attempts at explaining why (mine included).
Whether you like it or not there is a very serious matter being decided here. The biggest game of this gen didn't move consoles. Nothing else will. This is a very clear picture to developers on what the console of choice is here. And its not as simple as that. Last gen all 3 consoles were pretty interchangable. What was released on the GC could be ported to the PS2 and XBOX and visa versa. This is not the case here. Things produced for the Wii cannot be ported to the 360 and PS3 becuase of control schemes and disk space and things produced for the 360 and PS3 cannot be ported to the Wii for graphical reasons. If the Wii keeps this breakneck pace over both of them combined, it would be dumb to even consider putting big projects on the HD consoles. The only thing that the HD consoles have left going for them is their good software sales for third parties. If the Wii can catch up to them there... game over.
I am not losing sleep over that. Because casual gamers are just that, casual gamers, they don't buy many games. And hardcore gamers do. Third party developers know that. I'm sure there will be developers who will switch focus, but the hardcore gaming crowd will buy enough games that third parties will continue to make AAA titles for them. The total number of AAA titles might drop a bit, but there will still be plenty of AAA titles.
What I am suprised about is the lack of a HD console increase due to GTA4. No one should be suprised when the Wii sells a lot. The only people acting suprised in here are the Wii fanboys. And I think its just a way to rub it in all of our faces.
Err, be careful with using "our". I'd like to think the patrons of the PA-VGST are a lot more mature than the GAF folks, where we don't take business matters so personally. You shouldn't either!
Anyway, there is genuine surprise that the 360/PS3 didn't pick up a noticeable hardware bump from GTA IV. But I've seen some good attempts at explaining why (mine included).
Whether you like it or not there is a very serious matter being decided here. The biggest game of this gen didn't move consoles. Nothing else will. This is a very clear picture to developers on what the console of choice is here. And its not as simple as that. Last gen all 3 consoles were pretty interchangable. What was released on the GC could be ported to the PS2 and XBOX and visa versa. This is not the case here. Things produced for the Wii cannot be ported to the 360 and PS3 becuase of control schemes and disk space and things produced for the 360 and PS3 cannot be ported to the Wii for graphical reasons. If the Wii keeps this breakneck pace over both of them combined, it would be dumb to even consider putting big projects on the HD consoles. The only thing that the HD consoles have left going for them is their good software sales for third parties. If the Wii can catch up to them there... game over.
Thats assuming that GTA IV is the biggest game of this gen so far; a lot of (blah, stupid word) casual gamers might see it as just another game.
I love the hell out of it, but I had the same excitement over it's release as I currently do for Lego Indy. Maybe GTA was never a system seller; it was a huge series for PS2, but that already had a large user base when it came out.
Whether you like it or not there is a very serious matter being decided here. The biggest game of this gen didn't move consoles. Nothing else will.
I don't really know for sure that GTA IV is the biggest game this gen. That title I'd give to either Wii Sports or CoD 4 or hell, maybe even GH III, like it or hate it. GTA IV hasn't been out long enough to really proove it can sell as well as the earlier games in the series.
Also don't be so gloomy on the HD consoles. They are still by and large completely out of the price range of the Wii. That'll be the real test; if the Wii can outsell the other two by such a large margin when they are cheaper than the Wii is.
Also I think there is going to be a east/west divide ala the Gameboy scene. Eastern developers are probably going to or already have shifted their resources over to the Wii while the western ones who are more heavily invested in their next gen tech will still keep the PS360 afloat with good titles.
Sometimes I think that people forget that the PS3/360 are for the most part, different markets than the Wii. Yes, they do overlap, but a large portion of Wii owners wouldn't of bought a 360/PS3 even if the Wii didn't exist.
Neva on
SC2 Beta: Neva.ling
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
Thats assuming that GTA IV is the biggest game of this gen so far; a lot of (blah, stupid word) casual gamers might see it as just another game.
I love the hell out of it, but I had the same excitement over it's release as I currently do for Lego Indy. Maybe GTA was never a system seller; it was a huge series for PS2, but that already had a large user base when it came out.
GTA IV is one of the biggest games in the casual landscape. Right up there with Madden. Sure both might have non casual controls and expensive graphics, but they do appeal to the mainstream urge to experience the NFL and to beat up hookers.
GTA was a system seller, although a $150-$299 system seller. IV might have tipped the freshness scale though, but I doubt that very much.
What I am suprised about is the lack of a HD console increase due to GTA4. No one should be suprised when the Wii sells a lot. The only people acting suprised in here are the Wii fanboys. And I think its just a way to rub it in all of our faces.
Err, be careful with using "our". I'd like to think the patrons of the PA-VGST are a lot more mature than the GAF folks, where we don't take business matters so personally. You shouldn't either!
Anyway, there is genuine surprise that the 360/PS3 didn't pick up a noticeable hardware bump from GTA IV. But I've seen some good attempts at explaining why (mine included).
Whether you like it or not there is a very serious matter being decided here. The biggest game of this gen didn't move consoles. Nothing else will. This is a very clear picture to developers on what the console of choice is here. And its not as simple as that. Last gen all 3 consoles were pretty interchangable. What was released on the GC could be ported to the PS2 and XBOX and visa versa. This is not the case here. Things produced for the Wii cannot be ported to the 360 and PS3 becuase of control schemes and disk space and things produced for the 360 and PS3 cannot be ported to the Wii for graphical reasons. If the Wii keeps this breakneck pace over both of them combined, it would be dumb to even consider putting big projects on the HD consoles. The only thing that the HD consoles have left going for them is their good software sales for third parties. If the Wii can catch up to them there... game over.
I don't think it'll be that big a deal. Alot of developers still want to do things with their games the Wii can't do.
I think the evidence is pretty clear, and really has been for a while, that the console market is still primarily a casual market. The hardcore market is much smaller.
Yes.
Nintendo has always been casual, starting with the NES,
...
Wut?
And most attempts to introduce hardcore consoles (from Turbo Grafix on down to the Dreamcast), have more or less flopped.
Mainly due to really bad marketing. I bet me and Sonic Retard could write a book on how SEGA and NEC really screwed themselves. Nintendo made similar mistakes, and then so did Sony.
The only reason hardcore console gaming thrived a bit in the 2000s is because they cannibalized another group of hardcore gamers, the PC gamer.
That implies that the hardcore market would have died otherwise. I dunno. I consider myself a hardcore gamer, and I didn't go anywhere when we changed over to the year 2000.
The PC gaming crowd of the 80s and 90s are the hardcore gamers, and they have largely been pulled away and PC gaming into the HD console group and PC gaming is as a result more or less dead. But that gave both Sony and Microsoft this false impression that the hardcore console market is an expanding market. It's not, the growth they saw were the transfer from the PC gaming market, the total number of hard core gamers is not growing nearly that fast, and that total number is really not big enough to fully support 2 hard core consoles.
I don't think it's that simple. SEGA and Sony expanded the market by marketing to untapped groups of gamers. Both SEGA's initial success with the Genesis and the huge userbase of the PSX and PS2 is due to making the system interesting to people who don't care about jumping on top of walking mushrooms and eating psychedelic flowers. No one's under the impression that the hardcore market is rapidly expanding. Acquiring new markets has been a big deal since the 16bit generation. You kinda account for this below...
And as a whole the hardcore gaming population is still much smaller than the casual group, as a result, the casual games and consoles will always dominate sales.
Not necessarily. Yes, now, the hardcore market is much smaller in regards to the past, but the TurboGrafx and Saturn were immensely popular in Japan, and both are generally regarded as "hardcore" systems.
Sony on the other hand, owned the casual market with the PS2, and instead of building on that, they elected to go after the much smaller hardcore group with the PS3, and left their flank wide open for Nintendo to walk in and steal their casual market share.
That's a pretty good way to put it, but Sony's issue was the same issue Nintendo had with the N64. Supposed benefits of the system weren't easily marketable or accountable by the consumer, brand name wasn't as strong as either company had hoped, less emphasis placed on third party titles, and down right arrogance on behalf of the PR.
Nintendo really lucked out, they were able to walk in and pick up market share because Sony inexplicably decided to abandon the huge casual market.
They lucked out in that Sony massively fucked up, yeah. But they've been aiming at the casual market since the N64. Or, better yet, they've been aiming at the casual market since SEGA made it relevant with the Genesis.
On that note, I find it kinda coicidental that the 360 is considered the machine for the hardcore gamer in Japan. Pac-Man CE did alot more for sales than, say, Lost Odyssey. Some of the top scorers on the Ikaruga Leaderboards one a 360 with no other games. Ketsui and DoDonPachi are headed to the 360 as well.
The only thing that the HD consoles have left going for them is their good software sales for third parties. If the Wii can catch up to them there... game over.
The Wii and PS3 have comparable third party sales.
Right, the market for the 360 and PS3 isn't horrible by any means, even without "savior" games. Plenty of folks will still develop for them, just like the Xbox got plenty of third-party support through the end of its life.
Again, it all comes down to profits. In plenty of other industries, being #2 or #3 is a-OK, as long as you're making a good profit, have good growth potential, etc. Sure, you always strive to be #1 but not being first isn't doom-and-gloom, the way lot of console fanboys are thinking.
For example, Apple survived for a very long time in the PC business with their hardware and software. Yet they've always been overshadowed by the likes of Dell, Microsoft, HP, etc. Does that mean they were doomed? Hell no. They still made money and was able to use it to fund going into other industries (and some of them they are now #1 in).
It's the same for games as well, and I don't know why fanboys don't realize that. There are plenty of companies out there that continue to make the types of games and systems that we like, and making a profit on them. (Well, with the exception of Sony, but hopefully that will change soon)
The chest-thumping that all the companies do is cute in a way, but ultimately what matters more are the numbers. Don't forget that.
I do have to say that I'm quite enjoying this Nintendo domination this year but only because I used to frequent Joystiq and holy shit did the fanboyism rile me up. The thread where they renamed it from Revolution to Wii was enough to make people punt babies.
Now, I wish I could go back and laugh at every single persons face.
Again, it all comes down to profits. In plenty of other industries, being #2 or #3 is a-OK, as long as you're making a good profit, have good growth potential, etc. Sure, you always strive to be #1 but not being first isn't doom-and-gloom, the way lot of console fanboys are thinking.
For example, Apple survived for a very long time in the PC business with their hardware and software. Yet they've always been overshadowed by the likes of Dell, Microsoft, HP, etc. Does that mean they were doomed? Hell no. They still made money and was able to use it to fund going into other industries (and some of them they are now #1 in).
It's the same for games as well, and I don't know why fanboys don't realize that. There are plenty of companies out there that continue to make the types of games and systems that we like, and making a profit on them. (Well, with the exception of Sony, but hopefully that will change soon)
The chest-thumping that all the companies do is cute in a way, but ultimately what matters more are the numbers. Don't forget that.
Well, the only problem with this is that both Microsoft and Sony have lost a lot of money. I know Microsoft's gaming division had $1.9 billion in losses in 2007, and I'm sure Sony's gaming division isn't doing any better.
For example, Apple survived for a very long time in the PC business with their hardware and software. Yet they've always been overshadowed by the likes of Dell, Microsoft, HP, etc. Does that mean they were doomed? Hell no.
Up until 97 or so, Apple was pretty fucked.
Failed game console.
Failed palm pilot.
Failed STB.
I'm happy that alot of my "hardcore" games are on the Wii and 360. Dunno about the PS3. Since Otomedius is hitting the 360, I'd like to think Gradius VI will too.
Again, it all comes down to profits. In plenty of other industries, being #2 or #3 is a-OK, as long as you're making a good profit, have good growth potential, etc. Sure, you always strive to be #1 but not being first isn't doom-and-gloom, the way lot of console fanboys are thinking.
For example, Apple survived for a very long time in the PC business with their hardware and software. Yet they've always been overshadowed by the likes of Dell, Microsoft, HP, etc. Does that mean they were doomed? Hell no. They still made money and was able to use it to fund going into other industries (and some of them they are now #1 in).
It's the same for games as well, and I don't know why fanboys don't realize that. There are plenty of companies out there that continue to make the types of games and systems that we like, and making a profit on them. (Well, with the exception of Sony, but hopefully that will change soon)
The chest-thumping that all the companies do is cute in a way, but ultimately what matters more are the numbers. Don't forget that.
Well, the only problem with this is that both Microsoft and Sony have lost a lot of money. I know Microsoft's gaming division had $1.9 billion in losses in 2007, and I'm sure Sony's gaming division isn't doing any better.
About a billion of that was due to the RRoD warranty issue, which was a one-time deal. The division is actually quite profitable this year, and the goal is that the division will always remain so from now on. Lifetime, yeah the division still has a large hole to dig out of, but that's always been the expectation. When you have a division that's expected to last as long as the company is around (think decades), then that's a few years of unprofitability actually isn't much. That's pretty much standard practice for any company looking to diversify its businesses. (My guess is that Apple's music division probably wasn't profitable either, for its first few years, and now look where it's at)
As we all know, Sony's gaming division had been profitable for a long time during the PS2 era. It's taken a dive since then, and it's still not profitable, but that's been forecasted to change over the next year. Again, that's acceptable as long as you actually meet long-term profit expectations.
So, in other words, think long-term. The funny thing this generation is that Nintendo has shown that you can actually succeed by being profitable from day-one. But remember, all they do is games. Sony and MS are in many other industries, so the way they are run can be quite different than how Nintendo is run.
What I am suprised about is the lack of a HD console increase due to GTA4. No one should be suprised when the Wii sells a lot. The only people acting suprised in here are the Wii fanboys. And I think its just a way to rub it in all of our faces.
Err, be careful with using "our". I'd like to think the patrons of the PA-VGST are a lot more mature than the GAF folks, where we don't take business matters so personally. You shouldn't either!
Anyway, there is genuine surprise that the 360/PS3 didn't pick up a noticeable hardware bump from GTA IV. But I've seen some good attempts at explaining why (mine included).
Whether you like it or not there is a very serious matter being decided here. The biggest game of this gen didn't move consoles. Nothing else will. This is a very clear picture to developers on what the console of choice is here. And its not as simple as that. Last gen all 3 consoles were pretty interchangable. What was released on the GC could be ported to the PS2 and XBOX and visa versa. This is not the case here. Things produced for the Wii cannot be ported to the 360 and PS3 becuase of control schemes and disk space and things produced for the 360 and PS3 cannot be ported to the Wii for graphical reasons. If the Wii keeps this breakneck pace over both of them combined, it would be dumb to even consider putting big projects on the HD consoles. The only thing that the HD consoles have left going for them is their good software sales for third parties. If the Wii can catch up to them there... game over.
Mista, all things considered its not time to kill yourself just yet. The HD consoles are pulling a profit, which many thought impossible for MS, and continue to have amazingly high attach rates. The 360 at 7.5, the Wii at 5.6, and the PS3 at 4.6 means that the HD systems do have an attach rate advantage.
[source] http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/04/25/npd-releases-home-console-attach-rate-ratios-ps3-not-so-hot/ [/source]
It is easily arguable that the PS3 attach rate is equal to the Wii's as WiiPlay counting as a game is pretty stupid and yet still counts for attach rate. Now also remember that the HD consoles carry with them a higher price tag and it gives game developers plenty of reason to continue producing games for those systems. There will always be developers that wish to create cutting edge games with amazing graphics that make us salivate as we watch the previews, and that is a great thing.
On the flip side, the Wii is allowing more gameplay-strong games to be made and achieve success which was something unheard of in the last generation (i.e. Boom Blox). Therefore we are actually getting the best of both worlds.
I have one last theory, I really do believe that all things considered that if all the prices were priced at the same level the Wii would still outsell the PS3/360 2 to 1. It has to do with the entirely new market that the Wii has hit. Old People, Parents, and other usually non-gameplaying demographics can now do all those things they used to do at home and easier. Want to bowl, play tennis, play bingo, or what have you, they can now do. These old people don't care that the other systems can stream audio, video, have big HD's or can play blu-ray they just want to bowl and golf. Anyhow, I feel you shouldn't get riled up over all of this, you are still going to get every game you wanted for your PS3, you will still be able to be a videophile and watch blu-ray movies... if you like RPG's you'll get the best of those as well. I find it kind of disconcerting how a lot of the people who own Wii's feel the need to rub your face in the fact that a ton of old people also like Wii's.
What's the attach rate of the DS? Not high. How much software does it still sell? LOTS.
The more consoles you sell and the quicker you sell them is going to severely lower that number.
Also, Wii Play is still a game. People could just buy the Wii Remote seperately, yet they don't.
Even with all that the Wii is far ahead on software sales over the PS3 and is rapidly catching the 360. Yes, even in third party software sales. Just because 3rd party software rarely charts in the NPD doesn't mean it doesn't sell, and sell pretty damn well.
Attach rates mean a lot. You need to be more specific who them mean anything to.
Hardware manufacturers? Mean a little. As said, DS has a low rate, so too does the Wii.
Attach rates mean a fucking lot to software developers though. It is everything to players like Epic Games, Ubisoft and the rest of the major third party houses who are courting platforms.
The high attach rate of the PS3 and 360 means they will get better sales. Or to put it another way, the demographics of the games that are sold.
Wii may have a decent software sales amount, but if you look closely at the games that sell (whic these developers do with full and comprehensive access to full NPD reports) then you will see the types of games which sell.
This is why it is hardly surprising so many developers are sticking with the 360 and PS3 instead of, as the hardware sales would suggest, jumping on DS or Wii development. Because the types of games they have been making for the last 15 years sell much better on those consoles.
Very few developers have been making waggle sports games for 15 years, hence the slow uptake for third parties for the Wii. Its happening, I mean one of the very best games on Wii is Boom Blox, by EA of all fucking people, but for every boom blox there are fifteen red steels etc etc.
What's the attach rate of the DS? Not high. How much software does it still sell? LOTS.
The more consoles you sell and the quicker you sell them is going to severely lower that number.
Also, Wii Play is still a game. People could just buy the Wii Remote seperately, yet they don't.
Even with all that the Wii is far ahead on software sales over the PS3 and is rapidly catching the 360. Yes, even in third party software sales. Just because 3rd party software rarely charts in the NPD doesn't mean it doesn't sell, and sell pretty damn well.
Attach rates, by themselves, I agree aren't that useful. That doesn't mean they mean "jack shit" though.
Like with most pieces of data, they're much more interesting and useful when paired with other information. For example, hardware sales, console life, whether or not it's affected by pack-in games, etc.
What I am suprised about is the lack of a HD console increase due to GTA4. No one should be suprised when the Wii sells a lot. The only people acting suprised in here are the Wii fanboys. And I think its just a way to rub it in all of our faces.
Err, be careful with using "our". I'd like to think the patrons of the PA-VGST are a lot more mature than the GAF folks, where we don't take business matters so personally. You shouldn't either!
Anyway, there is genuine surprise that the 360/PS3 didn't pick up a noticeable hardware bump from GTA IV. But I've seen some good attempts at explaining why (mine included).
Whether you like it or not there is a very serious matter being decided here. The biggest game of this gen didn't move consoles. Nothing else will. This is a very clear picture to developers on what the console of choice is here. And its not as simple as that. Last gen all 3 consoles were pretty interchangable. What was released on the GC could be ported to the PS2 and XBOX and visa versa. This is not the case here. Things produced for the Wii cannot be ported to the 360 and PS3 becuase of control schemes and disk space and things produced for the 360 and PS3 cannot be ported to the Wii for graphical reasons. If the Wii keeps this breakneck pace over both of them combined, it would be dumb to even consider putting big projects on the HD consoles. The only thing that the HD consoles have left going for them is their good software sales for third parties. If the Wii can catch up to them there... game over.
I don't really think your conclusion works here. In fact, just the opposite. Last gen, the consoles were pretty much interchangeable, meaning that aside from first-party games, the vast majority of exclusives went to the market leader, the PS3. Now, there are actually meaningful differences between consoles. Or, at least, between the Wii and the other two; the PS3 and 360 are still pretty interchangeable. This means that third parties that see a lot of competition within their genre on one system might develop for the other one instead, and so forth. Also, the console with the highest install base has the lowest development cost, which can only be a good thing.
Also remember that the 360 version of GTA4 sold more then SSBB, both pokemon versions, and Mario Kart combined in its few days for the month of April.
Neva on
SC2 Beta: Neva.ling
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
Also remember that the 360 version of GTA4 sold more then SSBB, both pokemon versions, and Mario Kart combined in its few days for the month of April.
o_O
Are you referring to sales of Pokemon and SSBB during the month of April? Because otherwise you must be referring to some strange offshoot of arithmetic that I don't quite understand. (Time Cube?)
Also remember that the 360 version of GTA4 sold more then SSBB, both pokemon versions, and Mario Kart combined in its few days for the month of April.
o_O
Are you referring to sales of Pokemon and SSBB during the month of April? Because otherwise you must be referring to some strange offshoot of arithmetic that I don't quite understand. (Time Cube?)
Yes, that's why I said April.
edit: Pretty sure Pokemon came out in April anyways.
Neva on
SC2 Beta: Neva.ling
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
Wii may have a decent software sales amount, but if you look closely at the games that sell (whic these developers do with full and comprehensive access to full NPD reports) then you will see the types of games which sell.
This is why it is hardly surprising so many developers are sticking with the 360 and PS3 instead of, as the hardware sales would suggest, jumping on DS or Wii development. Because the types of games they have been making for the last 15 years sell much better on those consoles.
Yes, thank you. Developing for the Wii is great... if you're Nintendo. If you're not, you're directly competing with Nintendo, and they've got their fingers in a lot of pies. If you make an adventure game it'll be directly compared to Zelda, platforming to Mario, etc. I mean, look how sad it is when people say shit like "man, this full golf game is crap compared to Wii Golf."
Many developers *like* developing for dual-analog, lots-of-buttons controllers, and making visually striking games. I'm happy that it's unlikely to ever go away, and only get better as time goes on. I mean, I don't think anyone's seen a big-name PS360 game and said "Man, this would be so much better on the Wii."
Wii may have a decent software sales amount, but if you look closely at the games that sell (whic these developers do with full and comprehensive access to full NPD reports) then you will see the types of games which sell.
This is why it is hardly surprising so many developers are sticking with the 360 and PS3 instead of, as the hardware sales would suggest, jumping on DS or Wii development. Because the types of games they have been making for the last 15 years sell much better on those consoles.
Yes, thank you. Developing for the Wii is great... if you're Nintendo. If you're not, you're directly competing with Nintendo, and they've got their fingers in a lot of pies. If you make an adventure game it'll be directly compared to Zelda, platforming to Mario, etc. I mean, look how sad it is when people say shit like "man, this full golf game is crap compared to Wii Golf."
Many developers *like* developing for dual-analog, lots-of-buttons controllers, and making visually striking games. I'm happy that it's unlikely to ever go away, and only get better as time goes on. I mean, I don't think anyone's seen a big-name PS360 game and said "Man, this would be so much better on the Wii."
If you make an open word game it will be compared to GTA. If you make a JRPG it will be compared to Final Fantasy. If you make a shooter it will be compared to CoD4/Halo. No matter what system you make a game for you'll have to compete with the big name titles.
Companies stick with the Xbox/PS3 because it's the easiest to market for. Show some pretty pictures on some major channels and you'll get sales. The games that sell are the ones with huge marketing budgets.
Rakai on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]XBL: Rakayn | PS3: Rakayn | Steam ID
Yes, thank you. Developing for the Wii is great... if you're Nintendo. If you're not, you're directly competing with Nintendo, and they've got their fingers in a lot of pies. If you make an adventure game it'll be directly compared to Zelda, platforming to Mario, etc. I mean, look how sad it is when people say shit like "man, this full golf game is crap compared to Wii Golf."
Many developers *like* developing for dual-analog, lots-of-buttons controllers, and making visually striking games. I'm happy that it's unlikely to ever go away, and only get better as time goes on. I mean, I don't think anyone's seen a big-name PS360 game and said "Man, this would be so much better on the Wii."
But you're competing with Nintendo anyway. Even if I owned a PS3 and 360 the only game I would've purchased last November is Mario Galaxy. Nintendo games sell because, generally speaking, they are quite excellent.
Also, at some point you need to acknowledge that some percentage of the hardly-core gamers, like me, have gone Wii only this generation.
Do you really think that software developers should cede the millions of Wii owners to Nintendo because they supposedly can't compete?
Third parties are such babies this generation with respect to their Wii projects. "Hey we released total shit and it failed" or "Hey we released a totally niche game and didn't promote it at all........ and it failed."
Also, at some point you need to acknowledge that some percentage of the hardly-core gamers, like me, have gone Wii only this generation.
I think it's folks like you that make MistaCreepy, and legions of other PS3/360/HD-only fanboys, cry ... or at least be very worried. The fear is that the folks like you make up a significant percentage of the general gaming audience, enough so that developers are going to ditch the 360/PS3 and go full Wii.
Personally, I think it's clear that this is not the case. Sure there are a lot of folk like you, but not enough to dissuade developers. The sales of many "hardcore" franchises continue to show there's still a lot of viability there.
Posts
You just pretty much did.
What I am suprised about is the lack of a HD console increase due to GTA4. No one should be suprised when the Wii sells a lot. The only people acting suprised in here are the Wii fanboys. And I think its just a way to rub it in all of our faces.
On the other end everyone and their mother expected some kind of bump for the PS3 and 360 riding GTAIV. I thought I lowballed them going 300k.
I know 'GAF lol' but their aggregate predictions give you an idea of what the community is expecting (155 people), and everyone undershot the Wii (623k) and overshot the PS3/360 (325k). In fact the lowest prediction for those 2 was 230k for the PS3 and 238k for the 360. People knew the Wii would outsell the field, but the margin surprised [strike]many[/strike] everyone and then the subsequent "what happened to the GTA boost?".
edit: additionally I think we got suckered by the PR. Rockstar came out with the $500 million opening and both Microsoft and Sony flashed the "consoles sales are up 50 some-odd%".
Actually, I'm surprised every time. I really thought 360 had this game in the bag, even though I got the Wii a month after it was released, and had to stand in line in the cold before Target opened for that.
It doesn't make any sense.
Err, be careful with using "our". I'd like to think the patrons of the PA-VGST are a lot more mature than the GAF folks, where we don't take business matters so personally. You shouldn't either!
Anyway, there is genuine surprise that the 360/PS3 didn't pick up a noticeable hardware bump from GTA IV. But I've seen some good attempts at explaining why (mine included).
- Don't add me, I'm at/near the friend limit
Steam: JC_Rooks
Twitter: http://twitter.com/JiunweiC
I work on this: http://www.xbox.com
I've got a coworker who, along with her boyfriend, has all 3 consoles. She's a big fan of the Wii, and she's in every sense of the word a "casual gamer." Very excited for Guitar Hero months after it's been out, loves Wii Play, and couldn't care less for a game's "estimated hours" or online play.
But hell if she's at all predictable. She got super excited for an updated Frogger. And she was falling over herself when "Lemmonings" came out on the Playstation network.
Damnit... :P
Seriously though, it's not a big deal. Who cares if some people gloat? It's not like they had anything to do with a companies fortunes, besides maybe adding a +1.
It's like following a sports team, only nerdier.
Whether you like it or not there is a very serious matter being decided here. The biggest game of this gen didn't move consoles. Nothing else will. This is a very clear picture to developers on what the console of choice is here. And its not as simple as that. Last gen all 3 consoles were pretty interchangable. What was released on the GC could be ported to the PS2 and XBOX and visa versa. This is not the case here. Things produced for the Wii cannot be ported to the 360 and PS3 becuase of control schemes and disk space and things produced for the 360 and PS3 cannot be ported to the Wii for graphical reasons. If the Wii keeps this breakneck pace over both of them combined, it would be dumb to even consider putting big projects on the HD consoles. The only thing that the HD consoles have left going for them is their good software sales for third parties. If the Wii can catch up to them there... game over.
The law of diminishing returns applies even to system pushing games, after you have released a few of them,
the next "system pushing" game has no more room to push.
Back away from the ledge! Don't jump! You've still got a lot to live for. FFXIII is still coming out soon, right? :P
All kidding aside, I do think you're being much too pessimistic. The Wii has already been successful for a while now. Guess what? Developers are still making and announcing hardcore games for the PC, 360, and PS3. Now they also have another viable platform whereas they can make money. I think that's a great thing for the industry.
GTA IV, even though it didn't move hardware, still sold millions of copies. Now, if those sales started drying up, as well as sales for other big-budget, typically hardcore, franchises ... then you might have a point. But they're not. It appears that the industry is just broadening itself, and that's actually a very good thing.
- Don't add me, I'm at/near the friend limit
Steam: JC_Rooks
Twitter: http://twitter.com/JiunweiC
I work on this: http://www.xbox.com
Well either way if things go too badly I can just save my money next gen and upgrade my PC. :P
I am not losing sleep over that. Because casual gamers are just that, casual gamers, they don't buy many games. And hardcore gamers do. Third party developers know that. I'm sure there will be developers who will switch focus, but the hardcore gaming crowd will buy enough games that third parties will continue to make AAA titles for them. The total number of AAA titles might drop a bit, but there will still be plenty of AAA titles.
Thats assuming that GTA IV is the biggest game of this gen so far; a lot of (blah, stupid word) casual gamers might see it as just another game.
I love the hell out of it, but I had the same excitement over it's release as I currently do for Lego Indy. Maybe GTA was never a system seller; it was a huge series for PS2, but that already had a large user base when it came out.
3DS: 1521-4165-5907
PS3: KayleSolo
Live: Kayle Solo
WiiU: KayleSolo
I don't really know for sure that GTA IV is the biggest game this gen. That title I'd give to either Wii Sports or CoD 4 or hell, maybe even GH III, like it or hate it. GTA IV hasn't been out long enough to really proove it can sell as well as the earlier games in the series.
Also don't be so gloomy on the HD consoles. They are still by and large completely out of the price range of the Wii. That'll be the real test; if the Wii can outsell the other two by such a large margin when they are cheaper than the Wii is.
Also I think there is going to be a east/west divide ala the Gameboy scene. Eastern developers are probably going to or already have shifted their resources over to the Wii while the western ones who are more heavily invested in their next gen tech will still keep the PS360 afloat with good titles.
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
GTA IV is one of the biggest games in the casual landscape. Right up there with Madden. Sure both might have non casual controls and expensive graphics, but they do appeal to the mainstream urge to experience the NFL and to beat up hookers.
GTA was a system seller, although a $150-$299 system seller. IV might have tipped the freshness scale though, but I doubt that very much.
I don't think it'll be that big a deal. Alot of developers still want to do things with their games the Wii can't do.
Yes.
...
Wut?
Mainly due to really bad marketing. I bet me and Sonic Retard could write a book on how SEGA and NEC really screwed themselves. Nintendo made similar mistakes, and then so did Sony.
That implies that the hardcore market would have died otherwise. I dunno. I consider myself a hardcore gamer, and I didn't go anywhere when we changed over to the year 2000.
I don't think it's that simple. SEGA and Sony expanded the market by marketing to untapped groups of gamers. Both SEGA's initial success with the Genesis and the huge userbase of the PSX and PS2 is due to making the system interesting to people who don't care about jumping on top of walking mushrooms and eating psychedelic flowers. No one's under the impression that the hardcore market is rapidly expanding. Acquiring new markets has been a big deal since the 16bit generation. You kinda account for this below...
Not necessarily. Yes, now, the hardcore market is much smaller in regards to the past, but the TurboGrafx and Saturn were immensely popular in Japan, and both are generally regarded as "hardcore" systems.
That's a pretty good way to put it, but Sony's issue was the same issue Nintendo had with the N64. Supposed benefits of the system weren't easily marketable or accountable by the consumer, brand name wasn't as strong as either company had hoped, less emphasis placed on third party titles, and down right arrogance on behalf of the PR.
They lucked out in that Sony massively fucked up, yeah. But they've been aiming at the casual market since the N64. Or, better yet, they've been aiming at the casual market since SEGA made it relevant with the Genesis.
On that note, I find it kinda coicidental that the 360 is considered the machine for the hardcore gamer in Japan. Pac-Man CE did alot more for sales than, say, Lost Odyssey. Some of the top scorers on the Ikaruga Leaderboards one a 360 with no other games. Ketsui and DoDonPachi are headed to the 360 as well.
The Wii and PS3 have comparable third party sales.
For example, Apple survived for a very long time in the PC business with their hardware and software. Yet they've always been overshadowed by the likes of Dell, Microsoft, HP, etc. Does that mean they were doomed? Hell no. They still made money and was able to use it to fund going into other industries (and some of them they are now #1 in).
It's the same for games as well, and I don't know why fanboys don't realize that. There are plenty of companies out there that continue to make the types of games and systems that we like, and making a profit on them. (Well, with the exception of Sony, but hopefully that will change soon)
The chest-thumping that all the companies do is cute in a way, but ultimately what matters more are the numbers. Don't forget that.
- Don't add me, I'm at/near the friend limit
Steam: JC_Rooks
Twitter: http://twitter.com/JiunweiC
I work on this: http://www.xbox.com
Now, I wish I could go back and laugh at every single persons face.
Well, the only problem with this is that both Microsoft and Sony have lost a lot of money. I know Microsoft's gaming division had $1.9 billion in losses in 2007, and I'm sure Sony's gaming division isn't doing any better.
Up until 97 or so, Apple was pretty fucked.
Failed game console.
Failed palm pilot.
Failed STB.
I'm happy that alot of my "hardcore" games are on the Wii and 360. Dunno about the PS3. Since Otomedius is hitting the 360, I'd like to think Gradius VI will too.
About a billion of that was due to the RRoD warranty issue, which was a one-time deal. The division is actually quite profitable this year, and the goal is that the division will always remain so from now on. Lifetime, yeah the division still has a large hole to dig out of, but that's always been the expectation. When you have a division that's expected to last as long as the company is around (think decades), then that's a few years of unprofitability actually isn't much. That's pretty much standard practice for any company looking to diversify its businesses. (My guess is that Apple's music division probably wasn't profitable either, for its first few years, and now look where it's at)
As we all know, Sony's gaming division had been profitable for a long time during the PS2 era. It's taken a dive since then, and it's still not profitable, but that's been forecasted to change over the next year. Again, that's acceptable as long as you actually meet long-term profit expectations.
So, in other words, think long-term. The funny thing this generation is that Nintendo has shown that you can actually succeed by being profitable from day-one. But remember, all they do is games. Sony and MS are in many other industries, so the way they are run can be quite different than how Nintendo is run.
- Don't add me, I'm at/near the friend limit
Steam: JC_Rooks
Twitter: http://twitter.com/JiunweiC
I work on this: http://www.xbox.com
Mista, all things considered its not time to kill yourself just yet. The HD consoles are pulling a profit, which many thought impossible for MS, and continue to have amazingly high attach rates. The 360 at 7.5, the Wii at 5.6, and the PS3 at 4.6 means that the HD systems do have an attach rate advantage.
[source] http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/04/25/npd-releases-home-console-attach-rate-ratios-ps3-not-so-hot/ [/source]
It is easily arguable that the PS3 attach rate is equal to the Wii's as WiiPlay counting as a game is pretty stupid and yet still counts for attach rate. Now also remember that the HD consoles carry with them a higher price tag and it gives game developers plenty of reason to continue producing games for those systems. There will always be developers that wish to create cutting edge games with amazing graphics that make us salivate as we watch the previews, and that is a great thing.
On the flip side, the Wii is allowing more gameplay-strong games to be made and achieve success which was something unheard of in the last generation (i.e. Boom Blox). Therefore we are actually getting the best of both worlds.
I have one last theory, I really do believe that all things considered that if all the prices were priced at the same level the Wii would still outsell the PS3/360 2 to 1. It has to do with the entirely new market that the Wii has hit. Old People, Parents, and other usually non-gameplaying demographics can now do all those things they used to do at home and easier. Want to bowl, play tennis, play bingo, or what have you, they can now do. These old people don't care that the other systems can stream audio, video, have big HD's or can play blu-ray they just want to bowl and golf. Anyhow, I feel you shouldn't get riled up over all of this, you are still going to get every game you wanted for your PS3, you will still be able to be a videophile and watch blu-ray movies... if you like RPG's you'll get the best of those as well. I find it kind of disconcerting how a lot of the people who own Wii's feel the need to rub your face in the fact that a ton of old people also like Wii's.
GCN had an amazing attach rate.
What's the attach rate of the DS? Not high. How much software does it still sell? LOTS.
The more consoles you sell and the quicker you sell them is going to severely lower that number.
Also, Wii Play is still a game. People could just buy the Wii Remote seperately, yet they don't.
Even with all that the Wii is far ahead on software sales over the PS3 and is rapidly catching the 360. Yes, even in third party software sales. Just because 3rd party software rarely charts in the NPD doesn't mean it doesn't sell, and sell pretty damn well.
Hardware manufacturers? Mean a little. As said, DS has a low rate, so too does the Wii.
Attach rates mean a fucking lot to software developers though. It is everything to players like Epic Games, Ubisoft and the rest of the major third party houses who are courting platforms.
The high attach rate of the PS3 and 360 means they will get better sales. Or to put it another way, the demographics of the games that are sold.
Wii may have a decent software sales amount, but if you look closely at the games that sell (whic these developers do with full and comprehensive access to full NPD reports) then you will see the types of games which sell.
This is why it is hardly surprising so many developers are sticking with the 360 and PS3 instead of, as the hardware sales would suggest, jumping on DS or Wii development. Because the types of games they have been making for the last 15 years sell much better on those consoles.
Very few developers have been making waggle sports games for 15 years, hence the slow uptake for third parties for the Wii. Its happening, I mean one of the very best games on Wii is Boom Blox, by EA of all fucking people, but for every boom blox there are fifteen red steels etc etc.
Attach rates, by themselves, I agree aren't that useful. That doesn't mean they mean "jack shit" though.
Like with most pieces of data, they're much more interesting and useful when paired with other information. For example, hardware sales, console life, whether or not it's affected by pack-in games, etc.
- Don't add me, I'm at/near the friend limit
Steam: JC_Rooks
Twitter: http://twitter.com/JiunweiC
I work on this: http://www.xbox.com
I don't really think your conclusion works here. In fact, just the opposite. Last gen, the consoles were pretty much interchangeable, meaning that aside from first-party games, the vast majority of exclusives went to the market leader, the PS3. Now, there are actually meaningful differences between consoles. Or, at least, between the Wii and the other two; the PS3 and 360 are still pretty interchangeable. This means that third parties that see a lot of competition within their genre on one system might develop for the other one instead, and so forth. Also, the console with the highest install base has the lowest development cost, which can only be a good thing.
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
o_O
Are you referring to sales of Pokemon and SSBB during the month of April? Because otherwise you must be referring to some strange offshoot of arithmetic that I don't quite understand. (Time Cube?)
Yes, that's why I said April.
edit: Pretty sure Pokemon came out in April anyways.
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
Yes, thank you. Developing for the Wii is great... if you're Nintendo. If you're not, you're directly competing with Nintendo, and they've got their fingers in a lot of pies. If you make an adventure game it'll be directly compared to Zelda, platforming to Mario, etc. I mean, look how sad it is when people say shit like "man, this full golf game is crap compared to Wii Golf."
Many developers *like* developing for dual-analog, lots-of-buttons controllers, and making visually striking games. I'm happy that it's unlikely to ever go away, and only get better as time goes on. I mean, I don't think anyone's seen a big-name PS360 game and said "Man, this would be so much better on the Wii."
If it were to be released, and they followed Godfather's control scheme, it would have been amazing. But sales probably would have been very light.
If you make an open word game it will be compared to GTA. If you make a JRPG it will be compared to Final Fantasy. If you make a shooter it will be compared to CoD4/Halo. No matter what system you make a game for you'll have to compete with the big name titles.
Companies stick with the Xbox/PS3 because it's the easiest to market for. Show some pretty pictures on some major channels and you'll get sales. The games that sell are the ones with huge marketing budgets.
But you're competing with Nintendo anyway. Even if I owned a PS3 and 360 the only game I would've purchased last November is Mario Galaxy. Nintendo games sell because, generally speaking, they are quite excellent.
Also, at some point you need to acknowledge that some percentage of the hardly-core gamers, like me, have gone Wii only this generation.
Do you really think that software developers should cede the millions of Wii owners to Nintendo because they supposedly can't compete?
Third parties are such babies this generation with respect to their Wii projects. "Hey we released total shit and it failed" or "Hey we released a totally niche game and didn't promote it at all........ and it failed."
I think it's folks like you that make MistaCreepy, and legions of other PS3/360/HD-only fanboys, cry ... or at least be very worried. The fear is that the folks like you make up a significant percentage of the general gaming audience, enough so that developers are going to ditch the 360/PS3 and go full Wii.
Personally, I think it's clear that this is not the case. Sure there are a lot of folk like you, but not enough to dissuade developers. The sales of many "hardcore" franchises continue to show there's still a lot of viability there.
???
Care to explain yourself? Did you also see my "ignoring everything else" comment? Because, you know, that's a crucial bit.
- Don't add me, I'm at/near the friend limit
Steam: JC_Rooks
Twitter: http://twitter.com/JiunweiC
I work on this: http://www.xbox.com