The next Xbox will be a home entertainment system. The complete package. Unlike the PS3 it wont just be an added on blu ray drive, it will have all kinds of media centre things that sort of stuff. much more apple tv than ps3.
thats their plan right? for the xbox from the start. home integration for MS into peoples lives.
This is the idea that both Sony and MS seem to be going for. Doesnt this necessarily keep the cost of the machine much higher than a dedicated game only machine? Its possible that if they are both profitable they may just let Nintendo have the games market again and not make as many compromises next generation as some might think.
I think their hope is that they, like Nintendo, break out of the current market and snag some of the high end entertainment system marketshare rather than just the home console market.
I mean, imagine if the next Xbox was just the defacto plaer for all movies ad tv shows. That would be huge.
Thats why Blu Ray in the PS3 might end up winning things in the end for Sony. Its a big if, mind you.
Fixed for me. Not that the 360 ain't fun. But they've focused to much on better tech = more fun, which just ain't true. I still think MS and Sony both jumped the gun with tech this round.
Uh, what? They've done what pretty much every single console prior to them has done, made a large jump in power. The Wii is basically the exception to this rule. I mean it's not like more power means less fun or that by having more power they're stopping developers from making 'fun' games, really what I'm saying is your point makes no damn sense. Can you elucidate me to what you mean, and more importantly how it relates to sales.
I guess you may be talking about simplistic games being more fun to your average person, as they are incapable or do not want to pick up the skills for a more complicated game. But I don't see how that has anything to do with the 360 and PS3 costing more, it's not like that extra power prohibits them from making games that aim at 'mainstream person'. Hell they do, see songstar, guitar hero etc. I mean sure, argue that the cheaper sale price is what made the Wii the hit it is, but don't conflate that with it being more fun.
We were off by 50,000. That's less than fucking pocket change in the world of sales predictions (for a game this huge).
I was just having fun with you actually.
Well, I figured you might be, but I wasn't sure. Either way I wanted to post some more in-depth info on just how accurate our prediction is. We were damn frickin' close and are closer than any other source I've seen.
The worst move for microsony marketing to make now is to try and position their systems as "premium" brands for the discriminating user. And no doubt comparisons like "Nintendo = Jeep" and "microsony = Porsche/Ferrari" will follow. Like I said that's the worst strategy. So they'll probably start using it next week.
Fixed. Fords break down way too often. And Jeep is awesome when it comes to accessories.
I would think that "Nintendo = Toyota" would be more accurate and appropriate...
I don't see Nintendo releasing a "Wii 2" until they come up with a game that cannot be done on the current Wii. The whole point of the Wii is the games, and it makes very little sense to try to put yourself on an equal footing hardware-wise with the PS3 and the 360 unless the games demand it. Games drive the machine, and gameplay drives the games. When Nintendo comes up with something that needs a heavier rig to bring the gameplay we'll see their next-gen, but not before.
Currently it's the third-party games that seem to demand it. There's a reason why a lot of the big-name franchises (Resident Evil, GTA, MGS, Final Fantasy, etc.) are still sticking to the PS3 and 360.
Does Nintendo need these franchises anymore? It appears not.
Yet, if Nintendo were greedy and wanted to have their cake and eat it too ... then why not? They've got plenty of resources now to play with, and the R&D needed to come up with hardware on the level of a 360/PS3 probably isn't that much anymore (as compared to coming up with 360++ or PS4, etc.).
That's my main point. That said, I'd still be surprised if Nintendo actually went this route.
"Hello,
I can confirm that Nintendo and Sonic Solutions have made an agreement to allow Nintendo the use of Sonic Solutions' DVD technology in a future version of the Wii console. However, launch details, like where (regions or countries) it will sell, release date, or price (although it will be more expensive than the original version) are currently unavailable. It will not be available as an add-on attachment. If we get any additional information on this topic, we'll be sure to post the news to our website (http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew), so please stay tuned.
Also, for those who already own a DVD player at home, the launch version of Wii will be the best choice. This version of the console is more affordable and you'll be able to enjoy Wii games immediately.
One more thing; please check out our important safety information for playing Wii on the following web page:
The next Xbox will be a home entertainment system. The complete package. Unlike the PS3 it wont just be an added on blu ray drive, it will have all kinds of media centre things that sort of stuff. much more apple tv than ps3.
thats their plan right? for the xbox from the start. home integration for MS into peoples lives.
This is the idea that both Sony and MS seem to be going for. Doesnt this necessarily keep the cost of the machine much higher than a dedicated game only machine? Its possible that if they are both profitable they may just let Nintendo have the games market again and not make as many compromises next generation as some might think.
I think their hope is that they, like Nintendo, break out of the current market and snag some of the high end entertainment system marketshare rather than just the home console market.
I mean, imagine if the next Xbox was just the defacto plaer for all movies ad tv shows. That would be huge.
Thats why Blu Ray in the PS3 might end up winning things in the end for Sony. Its a big if, mind you.
Scarab, I agree with you in that I think Microsoft is trying to progressively gear the "Xbox line" into an all encompassing media machine; they took the first step with the oXbox (gaming + internet), and are taking the next few steps with the 360 (the online media and the [obviously failed] attempt at offering HD DVD). I think MS is happy with the success they've had so far this gen, and they might end up gaining some of the high end A/V market if their progressive steps continue as they are, perhaps.
As far as Sony, while I agree that having BluRay in the PS3 is a "big win" for Sony in that it helped Sony win the format war, I don't think that having BluRay in the PS3 is going to much help the PS3 push systems. So far, there hasn't been an overly eager desire to jump to BluRay over DVD (as is typical of time consuming format changes over time) - it takes a while. By the time the important numbers of people are going to be willing to make the jump, standalone players should have come down in price to lower-than-PS3 levels. More importantly, I think that movie players have to be really cheap to get most people on board. It really won't help the PS3 push a lot of systems; not now while things are expensive and people aren't making the jump, and not later when tech improvements reduce the cost and people are still needing really cheap players.
Mind you this whole post is premised on the idea that BluRay really does become the next movie standard that the vast majority of the public takes up; which it may not be...
The worst move for microsony marketing to make now is to try and position their systems as "premium" brands for the discriminating user. And no doubt comparisons like "Nintendo = Jeep" and "microsony = Porsche/Ferrari" will follow. Like I said that's the worst strategy. So they'll probably start using it next week.
Fixed. Fords break down way too often. And Jeep is awesome when it comes to accessories.
I would think that "Nintendo = Toyota" would be more accurate and appropriate...
It had widely been predicted that the release of Grand Theft Auto IV would drive Xbox 360 and PS3 adoption but that appeared not to be the case in April, during which time sales of Microsoft’s 360 dropped from 262,000 units in March to 188,000, and PS3 sales fell from 257,000 units to 187,100.
Reacting to the April sales figures in an investor note on Friday, Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter expressed surprise.
“We were surprised by relatively weak PS3 and Xbox 360 sales, especially given the launch of Grand Theft Auto IV late in the month. We had expected sales of both consoles to increase month over month, as we thought that many potential console owners were waiting for the game to launch before purchasing a console.”
However, other analysts pointed out that GTA IV was only available for five days during the April sales reporting period, and suggested that the Rockstar title could well drive PS3 and Xbox 360 adoption throughout May.
“While a pick-up in PS3 and Xbox 360 hardware sales benefiting from GTA IV is not evident in the [April NPD] data, we believe May could show some sequential improvement,” offered Lazard Capital Markets analyst Colin Sebastian.
NPD analyst Anita Frazier concurred, "... Since [GTA IV] was only in the market for five days during this reporting period, that [hardware] sales lift could very well be evident in May data."
Microsoft’s Aaron Greenberg also told Next-Gen, “I think May will be a better barometer for GTA's impact on hardware sales. I think GTA is the type of franchise that is unique and does perform differently. It reaches a different type of customer than other big titles in our industry, and those mainstream buyers don't necessarily buy hardware the day a game comes out. I think we'll see a much longer tail with this game.”
While the hardware sales impact of GTA IV may have been weaker during April than some had expected, had the game not released last month PS3 and 360 sales would likely have been even lower - Microsoft's Gamerscore marketing blog reported that Xbox 360 sales jumped 54 percent week-over-week during the game’s first seven days on the market. Unfortunately NPD doesn't provide a weekly hardware sales breakdown, so it's unclear exactly what proportion of the Xbox 360s and PS3s sold during April were picked up in the final week of the month when GTA IV was available.
When there is no big bump in May, GAF is going to explode again.
In a brief analysis of the NPD Group’s April sales data, Divnich, formerly lead analyst for videogame sales prediction website The simExchange and now director of analytical services at EEDAR, said that Microsoft and Sony may be forced to cut console prices if the Xbox 360 and PS3 underperform in May.
“Unless you were Nintendo, you were probably disappointed with hardware sales [in April],” he said.
Monthly NPD sales data showed that, during April, Nintendo’s Wii shifted 714,200 units and its DS handheld 414,800 units. In comparison, Microsoft’s Xbox 360 and Sony’s PS3 were neck and neck, with 188,000 units and 187,100 units sold respectively.
“… I [previously] stated that it is likely that both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 have saturated their market potential at their current price points; April’s results only reinforces that theory,” Divinch noted.
“This [is] the first time that Xbox 360 sales dipped below 200k since July 2007, which ended up resulting in an Xbox 360 price drop the following month (August 2007). It wouldn’t be wrong to assume that Microsoft might follow a similar strategy as last year given that the Xbox 360 has dropped below the 50,000 units a week sold threshold mark.
“Of course, it might be a little too soon to speculate that we can expect a price drop in the coming weeks or additional hardware SKUs (an Xbox 360 with Blu-Ray capability) in the coming month, but if May’s hardware sales drop below the 50,000 units sold a week threshold, we can definitely expect something in terms of a change in strategy from both Microsoft and Sony.”
Microsoft and Sony were bullish about the performances of their consoles and their future outlook following the release of April sales data.
Any price cut is going to be REALLY painful for the companies.
Shuhei Yoshida will become the president of SCE WWS beginning May 16, marking what may be the beginning of a new era for PlayStation's software division.
Yoshida is currently SVP of U.S. Studios at SCE WW. When he assumes his new position, he'll be filling shoes left by the highly visible Harrison, who departed Sony in February this year, and took a job with French game publisher Infogrames.
Yoshida has been with SCEI since 1993, and was an initial member of the PlayStation business, according to a Sony statement. In 1996, he became producer of the product development department, and in 2000, joined SCEA as VP of product development.
He landed his most recent SVP position in February 2007.
A statement from SCE group CEO Kaz Hirai read: "SCE WWS has been developing global hit titles, sharing resources and know-how within SCE Group since its foundation, and we will reinforce our software business by further enhancing coordination among the studios under a new leader.
"Under the leadership of Yoshida, who has proven track record in managing creative talent, SCE WWS will accelerate the software development for the PlayStation 3 and PSP platforms and vigorously expand the gaming market."
Who the hell is he?
Edit:
Shuhei Yoshida, a 17-year Sony veteran and renowned software developer, has been with the PlayStation group since the project's inception more than 10 years ago. Through his tenure with Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. in Japan, he held various high-profile positions in both the product development and third party relations arenas.
In April 2000, Yoshida was appointed vice president, product development, Sony Computer Entertainment America and is responsible for all software development activities for Sony Computer Entertainment America and the 989 Sports brand. His internal product development operation includes studios in Foster City, Calif., San Diego, Calif., Santa Monica, Calif., Bend, Ore. and Salt Lake City, Utah.
Yoshida joined Sony Corporation in 1986 where he was involved in the corporate strategy group, as well as coordinating PC business. Additionally, he was one of the initial members of the PlayStation project in February 1993, where as the lead account executive he headed Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.'s third party licensing program. Shu has many best-selling titles under his belt, including the company's premiere online game with voice-enabled headset, SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs, as well as Jak and Daxter’, Twisted Metal Black® and ATV Offroad Fury’ to name a few.
Yoshida is among those responsible for the creation of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.'s 170-person internal product development team. In the studio, Shu has produced/executive produced Gran Turismo’, Ape Escape’ and The Legend of Dragoon®, among others.
Yoshida earned his bachelor of science degree in economics from Kyoto University, Japan and his master's degree in business administration from the University of California at Los Angeles.
Of course, Sega did what it could to downplay the news of its impending failure on the video game front and said that it thinks it can turn things around, but I just don't see how that's possible with just games. Let's face it -- the company's once proud Sonic franchise is floundering and there's no indication that it's really that valuable on Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo platforms. Beyond that, the company has done poorly with other titles it has released and aside from a lingering desire for the return of the Shenmue series, few people even think about the developer any more.
With that in mind, Sega needs to change its strategy and turn things around. And the only way it can do that is to release its own video game console.
As soon as you read that, I'm sure it immediately conjured up thoughts about the Saturn and Dreamcast and the failure that both of those consoles were. And while you may be right in having doubts about Sega's ability to create an extremely popular console, I'm starting to think that we're ready for it.
Depending on the study you read, the average gamer is anywhere between 30-35 years old. Because of that, it's safe to assume that the vast majority of gamers remember the days of Sega console gaming and there is still a huge group of Sega zealots in the wild that long for another Dreamcast.
Realizing that, I think it's safe to assume that Sega should be able to capitalize on those that are still keen on using a Sega-branded console and through the use of some serious hype and a far better hardware strategy than it formally employed, it could become a major hit.
Of course, the plan doesn't quite end there.
There's no debating the fact that Sega has been a relative failure in the software space. Since its decision to drop out of the hardware game, the company has had a few minor hits, but nothing has been developed that we can classify as a blockbuster. And in an environment where we're seeing a significant push towards consolidation, the company really only has two options: sell the company to the highest bidder or develop a console.
And considering the fact that there are a slew of more attractive developers out there with better franchises, I just don't see too many large firms going after Sega. And it's for that reason that it needs to find a way to differentiate itself and take a stab at the hardware market.
In order for Sega to truly keep its game division afloat, it'll need to develop hardware that's both forward-thinking and inexorably tied to the online space. Beyond that, it'll need to repair the issues it may still have with retailers and some other developers and endeavor to build a console that can compete on the same level with the Xbox 360 and the Playstation 3.
But it's the relationships with developers that will truly matter to Sega. Due to the expected high price of the hardware, Sega will need to sell the console at a loss and (hopefully) make up for it through deals with third-parties. In order to do that, it'll need to establish itself as the "real third console" that developers should expect to sell games on. After all, third-parties are having trouble selling games on the Wii and if they believe that they can turn an even greater profit by selling games on three consoles, the deals should start to build up.
After forming the deals with developers, Sega will need to build the hype machine up as much as possible. Instead of following the faulty plan of years ago, it needs to show off a console that's both more powerful than anything available, offers a Blu-ray drive, and has the kind of online component we're only seeing in the Xbox 360. The company also needs to play by the rules: it shouldn't announce the console and release it on the same day and it should take as much time as it needs to ensure all of its ducks are in a row before it launches it.
More than anything though, the return of Sega should be the centerpiece of its entire campaign. I truly believe that there are millions across the globe that would invite Sega back into the hardware business and as long as the games were plentiful, even those who have never played a game on a Sega console may want to get in on the action.
Although it's risky, I simply don't see any other way Sega can revive its business. With slow growth and losses each year, how can the company truly expect to compete in this increasingly competitive market without some sort of action?
Sega should be a hardware company. It's as simple as that.
As far as Sony, while I agree that having BluRay in the PS3 is a "big win" for Sony in that it helped Sony win the format war, I don't think that having BluRay in the PS3 is going to much help the PS3 push systems. So far, there hasn't been an overly eager desire to jump to BluRay over DVD (as is typical of time consuming format changes over time) - it takes a while. By the time the important numbers of people are going to be willing to make the jump, standalone players should have come down in price to lower-than-PS3 levels. More importantly, I think that movie players have to be really cheap to get most people on board. It really won't help the PS3 push a lot of systems; not now while things are expensive and people aren't making the jump, and not later when tech improvements reduce the cost and people are still needing really cheap players.
Mind you this whole post is premised on the idea that BluRay really does become the next movie standard that the vast majority of the public takes up; which it may not be...
I think the inclusion (and subsequent increase in price) is definitely what's caused the slow start for Sony, but I do believe that the system is designed for the long term, especially with things like the easily replaceable hard drive.
I don't think either system has the appeal that the Wii has, and will never catch up, but I do think the decision to make the PS3 a more "media center" game system will give it a pretty long lifespan. But that also makes me believe that this is the last "console war" where everyone will try to sync up. If the PS3 hasn't met its benchmarks by [year], I seriously doubt Sony would come out with a new system, even if Microsoft pushes a new system out quickly.
But yeah, even with the Wii dominating I do not get the feeling that this generation of consoles is at all close to being over with. The Wii really works because Nintendo makes some of the best games for their own system and understood how to show it off effectively, which isn't something you can easily replicate (especially now; you'd just come across as a knockoff).
We've talked about the Wii before, and you've said its success is good for you guys, good for the whole industry. And the whole "console war" lately has been focused much on Xbox 360 and PS3. But don't you think that you're losing some customers to Nintendo? Do you consider Nintendo a competitor or not a competitor to Microsoft?
No, we don't see Nintendo as a direct competitor. We actually believe that the Wii complements the Xbox 360 experience. While they're talking to a very casual user, eventually, those users will want a much more immersive experience. We think they'll eventually upgrade to an Xbox 360.
Spin spin spin.
I dunno. He's kinda right.
My Wii and 360 get along very well. I mean, the Wii and the 360/PS3 have very different experiences. While not being a direct competitor is nonsense, at least they're sticking with the idea, "Hey, you got a Wii? How about getting a 360 to go along with it?" Non offensive, friendly PR.
That aside, I really can't defend GAF on this one. It's like reality finally cracked for a bunch of fanboys and they're raging incoherently or something. I think some guy was holding up the Okami Wii port (which we have not received any numbers for (actually, we have: >100K), and that a Capcom rep has stated as selling within expectations) as an example of Wii 3rd party failures.
Yeah, disappointing, but if Capcom is happy with it, that's cool. Has it been released in Japan yet?
P.S. This is cute. I never knew why everyone got worked up over these numbers. Can't wait until next month.
Because they legitimize our hobby to the outside world.
Or, at least for me.
Plus, numbers are fun.
I can't remember if I posted here or elsewhere, but about 6 or 7 months ago I suggested that Microsoft may not do another console, particularly if they can't "win" the current gen war by a huge margin. By the time it's over they may end up third, if things keep going the way they are. I really have my doubts that there will be a third Xbox.
If I know MS, they're in it for the long haul. They're a pretty well oiled machine. While the 360 is primarily a games machine, it reinforces the MS brand and encourages adoption of MS tech elsewhere. Plus, they'll be heavily invested in steaming data for home entertainment and digital downloads.
Expect Live to be an even larger player in the "game" next generation.
I really think that some folks at Rockstar are just a little let down.
They raked in over 100 million in a few days. Not bad at all. Halo had the luxury of kicking off the holiday shopping season. Only a problem if it's true that GTA4 cost around 100 mil to produce.
I think the only disappointing would come from the fact that it's going to be a long, long, way to even remotely match the numbers of the past three games.
Will price cuts really be that painful for the companies? I know Microsoft is scheduled to have a new internal revision of the console out in a few months that should drastically cut costs & improve reliability. I seem to have heard that there are some similar PS3 revisions in the wings as well.
It will be very interesting to see the approach each of the big three take towards designing their next consoles. In the past it seems like the war has focused on 'my processor/GPU/memory/everything is just bigger/faster/stronger than yours!' boasting, but I think they'll be better keyed into the price sensitivity of the market after the race put them up what looks to be a pretty firm price ceiling. I think next time around rather than trying to push the absolute biggest and best e-pen stimulating tech orgasm of wallet crushing doom they'll target the most notable visual 'step' of next gen very, very carefully.
This generation, for example, the notable step has been largely in normal mapping and other fancy pants texture effects, puting RAM and GPU resources at a premium. Is a mega-processor like Cell really necessary to drive graphics that most mainstream consumers consider 'next gen'? Probably not - but it's still expensive. I think the goal next time around for Sony and MS, hardware wise, will probably be to achieve the minimum necessary system specs to push the desired effects.
Nintendo would be, in my opinion, wise to dig into the treasure chest and keep up this time around. The Wii's success came not only it's innovative philosophy but also the utter and total LACK of any kind of pricepoint competition. In a world where the more graphically intense consoles were double the price or more the Wii could get away with being dramatically underpowered and still build up mindshare and a massive sales rate. I doubt very much if that will be the case in the next generation, when Nintendo likely loses the advantage of both novelty and clear cost of entry advantage. In all honesty, it shouldn't be too much to expect that they keep up with what's likely to be a smaller technical jump coming from a much stronger financial position. They'll flat out have to re-design the architecture anyway, and there's no reason not to meet the minimum graphical standards of the next gen if they can afford to do so without crippling their casual friendly cost of entry (which I believe they should be able to do and, hell, probably could have done this time around).
Will price cuts really be that painful for the companies? I know Microsoft is scheduled to have a new internal revision of the console out in a few months that should drastically cut costs & improve reliability. I seem to have heard that there are some similar PS3 revisions in the wings as well.
Sony is supposed to start making a profit on the PS3 sometime this year. A price cut would probably put them back in the red. Microsoft isn't making that much of a profit on the 360 right now so it would probably hurt their expected profits for this year if they did cut the price.
I think one thing that is going to be big for GTA4 (and not the consoles) is that simply, everyone who purchases a 360 or PS3 from here on out, is probably going to pick up GTA4 simply because it had so much publicity and is the game to own. So we could very easily see a close correlation between 360+PS3 numbers to GTA4 sales. "Legs" if you will.
Perhaps not Nintendo::Mario Game sales, but something like it perhaps.
I doubt very much if that will be the case in the next generation, when Nintendo likely loses the advantage of both novelty and clear cost of entry advantage.
True, but Nintendo will also have gained the advantage of coming from a position of incredible market dominance ala the NES or the PS2. All they have to do is not make any big early blunders with the Wii 2 (ala Sony & the PS3) and they've got it made.
It will be very interesting to see the approach each of the big three take towards designing their next consoles. In the past it seems like the war has focused on 'my processor/GPU/memory/everything is just bigger/faster/stronger than yours!' boasting, but I think they'll be better keyed into the price sensitivity of the market after the race put them up what looks to be a pretty firm price ceiling. I think next time around rather than trying to push the absolute biggest and best e-pen stimulating tech orgasm of wallet crushing doom they'll target the most notable visual 'step' of next gen very, very carefully.
This generation, for example, the notable step has been largely in normal mapping and other fancy pants texture effects, puting RAM and GPU resources at a premium. Is a mega-processor like Cell really necessary to drive graphics that most mainstream consumers consider 'next gen'? Probably not - but it's still expensive. I think the goal next time around for Sony and MS, hardware wise, will probably be to achieve the minimum necessary system specs to push the desired effects.
Nintendo would be, in my opinion, wise to dig into the treasure chest and keep up this time around. The Wii's success came not only it's innovative philosophy but also the utter and total LACK of any kind of pricepoint competition. In a world where the more graphically intense consoles were double the price or more the Wii could get away with being dramatically underpowered and still build up mindshare and a massive sales rate. I doubt very much if that will be the case in the next generation, when Nintendo likely loses the advantage of both novelty and clear cost of entry advantage. In all honesty, it shouldn't be too much to expect that they keep up with what's likely to be a smaller technical jump coming from a much stronger financial position. They'll flat out have to re-design the architecture anyway, and there's no reason not to meet the minimum graphical standards of the next gen if they can afford to do so without crippling their casual friendly cost of entry (which I believe they should be able to do and, hell, probably could have done this time around).
Nintendo has a pretty good relationship with ATI, and while they may not be king of the graphics cards right now, that could help them greatly in moving into the next gen. Or they could move to nVidia. I think Nintendo is very capable of focusing on power, as even the GC was pretty powerful.
Personally, I'm interested to see what new interesting ideas they have for the controls. I would imagine they would try to keep it backwards compatible, but will they keep the controllers, create a better one, or come out with something else entirely?
I doubt very much if that will be the case in the next generation, when Nintendo likely loses the advantage of both novelty and clear cost of entry advantage.
True, but Nintendo will also have gained the advantage of coming from a position of incredible market dominance ala the NES or the PS2. All they have to do is not make any big early blunders with the Wii 2 (ala Sony & the PS3) and they've got it made.
Very true. But I think releasing a graphically previous gen console in direct or very close pricepoint competition to other next gen options would qualify as a major early blunder, and I wouldn't be all that surprised to see it happen.
Regarding the whole big releases not pushing hardware sales, what about what happened in March? I didn't read the thread back then, but looking back, Wii sales went from 432k in Februrary up to 721k in March. Obviously, the big release then was Smash Brothers, so is that an example of a big release increasing hardware sales? Maybe the real conclusion is that big releases don't push 360's or PS3's, for many reasons already stated in this thread.
Granted, Smash was released March 9th, so it had much more time compared to GTAIV for people to pick up more consoles. If this is the underlying difference, then maybe in May we'll be seeing higher PS3/360 sales figures?
Alternatively, the jump in Wii sales from February to March could've been a result of increased production capacity; I haven't read anything indicating that during this specific time frame, but I could have missed it.
Regarding the whole big releases not pushing hardware sales, what about what happened in March? I didn't read the thread back then, but looking back, Wii sales went from 432k in Februrary up to 721k in March. Obviously, the big release then was Smash Brothers, so is that an example of a big release increasing hardware sales? Maybe the real conclusion is that big releases don't push 360's or PS3's, for many reasons already stated in this thread.
Granted, Smash was released March 9th, so it had much more time compared to GTAIV for people to pick up more consoles. If this is the underlying difference, then maybe in May we'll be seeing higher PS3/360 sales figures?
Alternatively, the jump in Wii sales from February to March could've been a result of increased production capacity; I haven't read anything indicating that during this specific time frame, but I could have missed it.
My guess would be the average joe doesn't think a single game is worth $400 or more. Even if it is OMG GAME OF THE MILLENNIUM. We are in a bit of a recession here in the States, you know.
In a brief analysis of the NPD Group’s April sales data, Divnich, formerly lead analyst for videogame sales prediction website The simExchange and now director of analytical services at EEDAR, said that Microsoft and Sony may be forced to cut console prices if the Xbox 360 and PS3 underperform in May.
“Unless you were Nintendo, you were probably disappointed with hardware sales [in April],†he said.
Monthly NPD sales data showed that, during April, Nintendo’s Wii shifted 714,200 units and its DS handheld 414,800 units. In comparison, Microsoft’s Xbox 360 and Sony’s PS3 were neck and neck, with 188,000 units and 187,100 units sold respectively.
“… I [previously] stated that it is likely that both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 have saturated their market potential at their current price points; April’s results only reinforces that theory,†Divinch noted.
“This [is] the first time that Xbox 360 sales dipped below 200k since July 2007, which ended up resulting in an Xbox 360 price drop the following month (August 2007). It wouldn’t be wrong to assume that Microsoft might follow a similar strategy as last year given that the Xbox 360 has dropped below the 50,000 units a week sold threshold mark.
“Of course, it might be a little too soon to speculate that we can expect a price drop in the coming weeks or additional hardware SKUs (an Xbox 360 with Blu-Ray capability) in the coming month, but if May’s hardware sales drop below the 50,000 units sold a week threshold, we can definitely expect something in terms of a change in strategy from both Microsoft and Sony.â€
Microsoft and Sony were bullish about the performances of their consoles and their future outlook following the release of April sales data.
Any price cut is going to be REALLY painful for the companies.
See, THIS is intelligent analyst, uh, analysis. Make a reasoned assertion and back it up with a little history/facts.
And I agree. PS3 and 360 sales were on the crap side, especially in a month where one of the supposed system-seller games comes out. If things don't improve, it wouldn't be wrong to think that we really have reached saturation point for these prices. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this gen has been absolutely horrible for price cuts. The two NEED to get their prices down if they want to stand any chance with the mass market.... then again, with the momentum and mindshare the Wii has, it may be too late.
Regarding the whole big releases not pushing hardware sales, what about what happened in March? I didn't read the thread back then, but looking back, Wii sales went from 432k in Februrary up to 721k in March. Obviously, the big release then was Smash Brothers, so is that an example of a big release increasing hardware sales? Maybe the real conclusion is that big releases don't push 360's or PS3's, for many reasons already stated in this thread.
Granted, Smash was released March 9th, so it had much more time compared to GTAIV for people to pick up more consoles. If this is the underlying difference, then maybe in May we'll be seeing higher PS3/360 sales figures?
Alternatively, the jump in Wii sales from February to March could've been a result of increased production capacity; I haven't read anything indicating that during this specific time frame, but I could have missed it.
My guess would be the average joe doesn't think a single game is worth $400 or more. Even if it is OMG GAME OF THE MILLENNIUM. We are in a bit of a recession here in the States, you know.
What is this recession everyone keeps talking about? Outside of some higher gas prices and some foods, I don't see anything changing around here in NJ. I still have the same job, the same pay, the same expenses, nothing is changing that would cause me not to buy something for fear of not being able to afford food tomorrow.
Regarding the whole big releases not pushing hardware sales, what about what happened in March? I didn't read the thread back then, but looking back, Wii sales went from 432k in Februrary up to 721k in March. Obviously, the big release then was Smash Brothers, so is that an example of a big release increasing hardware sales? Maybe the real conclusion is that big releases don't push 360's or PS3's, for many reasons already stated in this thread.
Granted, Smash was released March 9th, so it had much more time compared to GTAIV for people to pick up more consoles. If this is the underlying difference, then maybe in May we'll be seeing higher PS3/360 sales figures?
Alternatively, the jump in Wii sales from February to March could've been a result of increased production capacity; I haven't read anything indicating that during this specific time frame, but I could have missed it.
My guess would be the average joe doesn't think a single game is worth $400 or more. Even if it is OMG GAME OF THE MILLENNIUM. We are in a bit of a recession here in the States, you know.
I really think it's a combination of market saturation due to price point and previous releases. I'd be interested to see how many people who bought GTAIV previously bought COD4/Halo- I'm guessing there is a strong correlation between the titles, meaning many people already got their 360's/PS3's previously, with GTAIV in mind. Maybe I should dig up NPD data from COD4/Halo's release...
And did Nintendo increase its production capabilities in March? Is there anything to support this aside from higher Wii sales (which may well be enough)?
Sales are a little higher than the previous year. It just shows that single games don't cause significant bumps in sales because the people interested in them most often already own the system.
Rakai on
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I think one thing that is going to be big for GTA4 (and not the consoles) is that simply, everyone who purchases a 360 or PS3 from here on out, is probably going to pick up GTA4 simply because it had so much publicity and is the game to own. So we could very easily see a close correlation between 360+PS3 numbers to GTA4 sales. "Legs" if you will.
Perhaps not Nintendo::Mario Game sales, but something like it perhaps.
GTA4 definitely has legs if for no other reason than a lot of gamers are still planning to buy a 360 or PS3 in the future, but currently own a Wii to get their gaming fix. There's no doubt that more of both consoles will be sold in the future, and for those gamers they're going to pick up the big titles probably immediately -- which is GTA4. The incredibly high review score only makes that more true. It's also one of the reasons that I think the May sales will probably be higher.
Preorders get you to a certain point, but when console sales have been soft, more people are waiting for reviews to come in. When a game scores an average of 99, people start to think "shit, maybe I'm missing out, I should pick one up next paycheck" or something similar.
On the flipside, look at the dropoff for SSB Brawl -- 2.7M down to 326K. Everyone who wants it already bought it, and many people (here and elsewhere) are kind of "burned out" on the game. Brawl didn't do any favors for Nintendo's online system, either. It's hardly cause for financial concern since these are huge numbers of sales, but an interesting look at how different these games are.
Sales are a little higher than the previous year. It just shows that single games don't cause significant bumps in sales because the people interested in them most often already own the system.
I really don't think that's true; there has to be a game that originally made people interested in the system in order to buy it. That's why I'm digging through older NPD's, and I think what I've found is conclusive.
The jump in 360 sales from August to September was 276k to 527k units, due to Halo 3.
The jump in 360 sales from October to November was 360k to 770k units, due to COD4.
The jump in PS3 sales from October to November was 121k to 466k units, again due to COD4.
It's not that single games don't cause significant bumps in sales, it's that they do, but to a certain point. The 360/PS3 have just already have those significant bumps. On top of that, their previous big releases (COD4/Halo 3) appeal to the same market as the current big release in question (GTAIV), which is why there wasn't an increase in hardware sales.
Smash, on the other hand, I can see moving hardware, even after such a high volume of Wii's have been sold. It's a bridge game between casual & core (I hope that's the terminology we're using in this thread...), and is differentiated enough from the previous system movers (Wii Sports?) to cause a significant increase.
This could really be a turning point. One that I don't want to see.
I just lost a lot of faith in the gaming industry.
Fuck the Wii. The system doesn't deserve it.
GTA4 isn't attracting existing PS2 owners into this gen. They are either Wii only or still waiting on price drop.
Man, these numbers are depressing. It's becoming increasingly clear the market can't support two core gamer systems. Going into next gen, I hope Sony and MS join forces. Let it be:
Nintendo=casual and nintendo games
Sony/MS=real games
so is it wrong to hate nintendo and it's stupid crappy console more with each passing month? I mean don't get me wrong I've had a blast with mario galaxy, metroid prime 3, twilight princess and no more heroes but seriously 700,000 + consoles sold in a month with absolutly fucking nothing worth buying on it ?
You know what's really hilarious about these quotes?
I'm a PC gamer.
Welcome to hell, suckers.
Its nice that im lumped in with the psychos at Neogaf.
MistaCreepy on
PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
This could really be a turning point. One that I don't want to see.
I just lost a lot of faith in the gaming industry.
Fuck the Wii. The system doesn't deserve it.
GTA4 isn't attracting existing PS2 owners into this gen. They are either Wii only or still waiting on price drop.
Man, these numbers are depressing. It's becoming increasingly clear the market can't support two core gamer systems. Going into next gen, I hope Sony and MS join forces. Let it be:
Nintendo=casual and nintendo games
Sony/MS=real games
so is it wrong to hate nintendo and it's stupid crappy console more with each passing month? I mean don't get me wrong I've had a blast with mario galaxy, metroid prime 3, twilight princess and no more heroes but seriously 700,000 + consoles sold in a month with absolutly fucking nothing worth buying on it ?
You know what's really hilarious about these quotes?
I'm a PC gamer.
Welcome to hell, suckers.
Its nice that im lumped in with the psychos at Neogaf.
november sales bumps are not due to COD4 but due to November.
Yup.
I'll add that it's impossible to say whether Smash is, technically, a system-seller because the system in this case keeps selling out month after month.
Halo Bump was called fairly small at the time, had a new SKU to sell, 2 weeks of sales in that month, and just off of a price drop. Even with all of those excuses it was better than the sales drop that March-April saw.
Is September a 5 week month? I can't remember, but I think it is. So there is another factor in that one.
november sales bumps are not due to COD4 but due to November.
360 sales in November 2006 were 511k units. Up 259k in November 2007.
PS3 sales in November 2006 were 197k units. Up 269k in November 2007. (Price cut over the year may have been a bigger factor, but we can't discard the increase).
Well, what exactly is the definition of 'significant'? Would anyone argue the Halo 3 bump as being 'significant'?
A jump over nearly 100% I would argue as significant... but you're right, it does need to defined.
I just thought it was interesting to look back at past releases, where the numbers seem to indicate big releases moving hardware. Maybe upon further analysis we can debunk it, but at first glance I think it's pretty indicative.
I'll add that it's impossible to say whether Smash is, technically, a system-seller because the system in this case keeps selling out month after month.
I agree, which is why I was wondering if there was an increase in production. Otherwise, if it truly is selling out, we should've seen similiar sales for Wii hardware (around 440k, IIRC), instead of the 300k jump.
Halo Bump was called fairly small at the time, had a new SKU to sell, 2 weeks of sales in that month, and just off of a price drop. Even with all of those excuses it was better than the sales drop that March-April saw.
Is September a 5 week month? I can't remember, but I think it is. So there is another factor in that one.
Good points. 2 weeks of sales refering to the new SKU? Halo was released on the 25th.
Is there anyway of knowing how well the new SKU sold? I didn't keep up with 360 SKU's, but was it that Xbox-lite arcade version, which I thought sold horribly? I could be horribly off-base...
Posts
I think their hope is that they, like Nintendo, break out of the current market and snag some of the high end entertainment system marketshare rather than just the home console market.
I mean, imagine if the next Xbox was just the defacto plaer for all movies ad tv shows. That would be huge.
Thats why Blu Ray in the PS3 might end up winning things in the end for Sony. Its a big if, mind you.
Uh, what? They've done what pretty much every single console prior to them has done, made a large jump in power. The Wii is basically the exception to this rule. I mean it's not like more power means less fun or that by having more power they're stopping developers from making 'fun' games, really what I'm saying is your point makes no damn sense. Can you elucidate me to what you mean, and more importantly how it relates to sales.
I guess you may be talking about simplistic games being more fun to your average person, as they are incapable or do not want to pick up the skills for a more complicated game. But I don't see how that has anything to do with the 360 and PS3 costing more, it's not like that extra power prohibits them from making games that aim at 'mainstream person'. Hell they do, see songstar, guitar hero etc. I mean sure, argue that the cheaper sale price is what made the Wii the hit it is, but don't conflate that with it being more fun.
Well, I figured you might be, but I wasn't sure. Either way I wanted to post some more in-depth info on just how accurate our prediction is. We were damn frickin' close and are closer than any other source I've seen.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
I would think that "Nintendo = Toyota" would be more accurate and appropriate...
AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697
"Hello,
I can confirm that Nintendo and Sonic Solutions have made an agreement to allow Nintendo the use of Sonic Solutions' DVD technology in a future version of the Wii console. However, launch details, like where (regions or countries) it will sell, release date, or price (although it will be more expensive than the original version) are currently unavailable. It will not be available as an add-on attachment. If we get any additional information on this topic, we'll be sure to post the news to our website (http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew), so please stay tuned.
Also, for those who already own a DVD player at home, the launch version of Wii will be the best choice. This version of the console is more affordable and you'll be able to enjoy Wii games immediately.
One more thing; please check out our important safety information for playing Wii on the following web page:
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/wiiplay.jsp
Sincerely,
Nintendo of America Inc.
Neil Dunkin"
Scarab, I agree with you in that I think Microsoft is trying to progressively gear the "Xbox line" into an all encompassing media machine; they took the first step with the oXbox (gaming + internet), and are taking the next few steps with the 360 (the online media and the [obviously failed] attempt at offering HD DVD). I think MS is happy with the success they've had so far this gen, and they might end up gaining some of the high end A/V market if their progressive steps continue as they are, perhaps.
As far as Sony, while I agree that having BluRay in the PS3 is a "big win" for Sony in that it helped Sony win the format war, I don't think that having BluRay in the PS3 is going to much help the PS3 push systems. So far, there hasn't been an overly eager desire to jump to BluRay over DVD (as is typical of time consuming format changes over time) - it takes a while. By the time the important numbers of people are going to be willing to make the jump, standalone players should have come down in price to lower-than-PS3 levels. More importantly, I think that movie players have to be really cheap to get most people on board. It really won't help the PS3 push a lot of systems; not now while things are expensive and people aren't making the jump, and not later when tech improvements reduce the cost and people are still needing really cheap players.
Mind you this whole post is premised on the idea that BluRay really does become the next movie standard that the vast majority of the public takes up; which it may not be...
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Car analogies never, ever work for consoles.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10527&Itemid=2 Any price cut is going to be REALLY painful for the companies.
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10520&Itemid=2 Who the hell is he?
Edit:
Reisinger!
http://www.cnet.com/8301-13506_1-9945007-17.html?tag=cnetfd.mt Why do these people still have jobs?
I think the inclusion (and subsequent increase in price) is definitely what's caused the slow start for Sony, but I do believe that the system is designed for the long term, especially with things like the easily replaceable hard drive.
I don't think either system has the appeal that the Wii has, and will never catch up, but I do think the decision to make the PS3 a more "media center" game system will give it a pretty long lifespan. But that also makes me believe that this is the last "console war" where everyone will try to sync up. If the PS3 hasn't met its benchmarks by [year], I seriously doubt Sony would come out with a new system, even if Microsoft pushes a new system out quickly.
But yeah, even with the Wii dominating I do not get the feeling that this generation of consoles is at all close to being over with. The Wii really works because Nintendo makes some of the best games for their own system and understood how to show it off effectively, which isn't something you can easily replicate (especially now; you'd just come across as a knockoff).
I dunno. He's kinda right.
My Wii and 360 get along very well. I mean, the Wii and the 360/PS3 have very different experiences. While not being a direct competitor is nonsense, at least they're sticking with the idea, "Hey, you got a Wii? How about getting a 360 to go along with it?" Non offensive, friendly PR.
Yeah, disappointing, but if Capcom is happy with it, that's cool. Has it been released in Japan yet?
Because they legitimize our hobby to the outside world.
Or, at least for me.
Plus, numbers are fun.
If I know MS, they're in it for the long haul. They're a pretty well oiled machine. While the 360 is primarily a games machine, it reinforces the MS brand and encourages adoption of MS tech elsewhere. Plus, they'll be heavily invested in steaming data for home entertainment and digital downloads.
Expect Live to be an even larger player in the "game" next generation.
They raked in over 100 million in a few days. Not bad at all. Halo had the luxury of kicking off the holiday shopping season. Only a problem if it's true that GTA4 cost around 100 mil to produce.
I think the only disappointing would come from the fact that it's going to be a long, long, way to even remotely match the numbers of the past three games.
They do have something to think about, for sure.
Regardless, these are really perplexing numbers.
SuperGrafx.
/nerd
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
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This generation, for example, the notable step has been largely in normal mapping and other fancy pants texture effects, puting RAM and GPU resources at a premium. Is a mega-processor like Cell really necessary to drive graphics that most mainstream consumers consider 'next gen'? Probably not - but it's still expensive. I think the goal next time around for Sony and MS, hardware wise, will probably be to achieve the minimum necessary system specs to push the desired effects.
Nintendo would be, in my opinion, wise to dig into the treasure chest and keep up this time around. The Wii's success came not only it's innovative philosophy but also the utter and total LACK of any kind of pricepoint competition. In a world where the more graphically intense consoles were double the price or more the Wii could get away with being dramatically underpowered and still build up mindshare and a massive sales rate. I doubt very much if that will be the case in the next generation, when Nintendo likely loses the advantage of both novelty and clear cost of entry advantage. In all honesty, it shouldn't be too much to expect that they keep up with what's likely to be a smaller technical jump coming from a much stronger financial position. They'll flat out have to re-design the architecture anyway, and there's no reason not to meet the minimum graphical standards of the next gen if they can afford to do so without crippling their casual friendly cost of entry (which I believe they should be able to do and, hell, probably could have done this time around).
Perhaps not Nintendo::Mario Game sales, but something like it perhaps.
True, but Nintendo will also have gained the advantage of coming from a position of incredible market dominance ala the NES or the PS2. All they have to do is not make any big early blunders with the Wii 2 (ala Sony & the PS3) and they've got it made.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Nintendo has a pretty good relationship with ATI, and while they may not be king of the graphics cards right now, that could help them greatly in moving into the next gen. Or they could move to nVidia. I think Nintendo is very capable of focusing on power, as even the GC was pretty powerful.
Personally, I'm interested to see what new interesting ideas they have for the controls. I would imagine they would try to keep it backwards compatible, but will they keep the controllers, create a better one, or come out with something else entirely?
Very true. But I think releasing a graphically previous gen console in direct or very close pricepoint competition to other next gen options would qualify as a major early blunder, and I wouldn't be all that surprised to see it happen.
Granted, Smash was released March 9th, so it had much more time compared to GTAIV for people to pick up more consoles. If this is the underlying difference, then maybe in May we'll be seeing higher PS3/360 sales figures?
Alternatively, the jump in Wii sales from February to March could've been a result of increased production capacity; I haven't read anything indicating that during this specific time frame, but I could have missed it.
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My guess would be the average joe doesn't think a single game is worth $400 or more. Even if it is OMG GAME OF THE MILLENNIUM. We are in a bit of a recession here in the States, you know.
Ahyep. We STILL don't know what the true demand for the machine is, since it keeps selling out.
See, THIS is intelligent analyst, uh, analysis. Make a reasoned assertion and back it up with a little history/facts.
And I agree. PS3 and 360 sales were on the crap side, especially in a month where one of the supposed system-seller games comes out. If things don't improve, it wouldn't be wrong to think that we really have reached saturation point for these prices. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this gen has been absolutely horrible for price cuts. The two NEED to get their prices down if they want to stand any chance with the mass market.... then again, with the momentum and mindshare the Wii has, it may be too late.
What is this recession everyone keeps talking about? Outside of some higher gas prices and some foods, I don't see anything changing around here in NJ. I still have the same job, the same pay, the same expenses, nothing is changing that would cause me not to buy something for fear of not being able to afford food tomorrow.
OMG WE'RE ALL DOOMED RECESSION.
I really think it's a combination of market saturation due to price point and previous releases. I'd be interested to see how many people who bought GTAIV previously bought COD4/Halo- I'm guessing there is a strong correlation between the titles, meaning many people already got their 360's/PS3's previously, with GTAIV in mind. Maybe I should dig up NPD data from COD4/Halo's release...
And did Nintendo increase its production capabilities in March? Is there anything to support this aside from higher Wii sales (which may well be enough)?
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GTA4 definitely has legs if for no other reason than a lot of gamers are still planning to buy a 360 or PS3 in the future, but currently own a Wii to get their gaming fix. There's no doubt that more of both consoles will be sold in the future, and for those gamers they're going to pick up the big titles probably immediately -- which is GTA4. The incredibly high review score only makes that more true. It's also one of the reasons that I think the May sales will probably be higher.
Preorders get you to a certain point, but when console sales have been soft, more people are waiting for reviews to come in. When a game scores an average of 99, people start to think "shit, maybe I'm missing out, I should pick one up next paycheck" or something similar.
On the flipside, look at the dropoff for SSB Brawl -- 2.7M down to 326K. Everyone who wants it already bought it, and many people (here and elsewhere) are kind of "burned out" on the game. Brawl didn't do any favors for Nintendo's online system, either. It's hardly cause for financial concern since these are huge numbers of sales, but an interesting look at how different these games are.
Not saying that a weaker economic's effects would be completely negligible, but it's probably not the whole picture by a long shot.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
I really don't think that's true; there has to be a game that originally made people interested in the system in order to buy it. That's why I'm digging through older NPD's, and I think what I've found is conclusive.
The jump in 360 sales from August to September was 276k to 527k units, due to Halo 3.
The jump in 360 sales from October to November was 360k to 770k units, due to COD4.
The jump in PS3 sales from October to November was 121k to 466k units, again due to COD4.
It's not that single games don't cause significant bumps in sales, it's that they do, but to a certain point. The 360/PS3 have just already have those significant bumps. On top of that, their previous big releases (COD4/Halo 3) appeal to the same market as the current big release in question (GTAIV), which is why there wasn't an increase in hardware sales.
Smash, on the other hand, I can see moving hardware, even after such a high volume of Wii's have been sold. It's a bridge game between casual & core (I hope that's the terminology we're using in this thread...), and is differentiated enough from the previous system movers (Wii Sports?) to cause a significant increase.
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Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
Its nice that im lumped in with the psychos at Neogaf.
It is nice isn't it.... Anihawk!
Yup.
I'll add that it's impossible to say whether Smash is, technically, a system-seller because the system in this case keeps selling out month after month.
Is September a 5 week month? I can't remember, but I think it is. So there is another factor in that one.
360 sales in November 2006 were 511k units. Up 259k in November 2007.
PS3 sales in November 2006 were 197k units. Up 269k in November 2007. (Price cut over the year may have been a bigger factor, but we can't discard the increase).
A jump over nearly 100% I would argue as significant... but you're right, it does need to defined.
I just thought it was interesting to look back at past releases, where the numbers seem to indicate big releases moving hardware. Maybe upon further analysis we can debunk it, but at first glance I think it's pretty indicative.
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I agree, which is why I was wondering if there was an increase in production. Otherwise, if it truly is selling out, we should've seen similiar sales for Wii hardware (around 440k, IIRC), instead of the 300k jump.
EDIT:
Good points. 2 weeks of sales refering to the new SKU? Halo was released on the 25th.
Is there anyway of knowing how well the new SKU sold? I didn't keep up with 360 SKU's, but was it that Xbox-lite arcade version, which I thought sold horribly? I could be horribly off-base...
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