Holy crap, Im now seriously considering goin PvP... and I used to absolutely hate PvP. Hmmm... I dunno, I still like raids and all that, so has anyone heard how good a full demonology spec is for instances?
As best as I can figure, the felhunter has somewhere around 160 base dps at level 60(slightly less now I guess with the MD change), and you'd get a whopping 42 dps increase in felguard dps(spamming cleave of course) with 400 +damage. He seems to do pretty good dps, and with today's changes, hopefully will be able to survive most raid fights.
Man, there's just not enough room. I also want 7 affliction and 11 destruction, but then in demonology, I have to choose between some combination of mana feed, MD, and demonic resilience. All three are damn good.
I'd say if your focus is raiding eventually, then undisputedly shadowburn, for bane.
For pvp, either way.
More for PvP ... Shadowburn is a guaranteed instant cast (unless I have no shards) ... Nightfall falls into that "may happen, may not" area and it seems Nightfall always procs more in PvE than PvP
The more Stamina and Int a Warlock gets, scales with his demon. Meaning the demon gets more Stam and Int, which increases the Warlock's Spell damage, which in-turn increases the Demon's attack/spell power.
Its like, just by getting more Stam/Int, Demo Warlocks can increase all their abilities and their demons. It's so ingenius.
Demonic Resilience is great too, gonna make it a lot harder to kill the Felguard, but shit... I would have to give up points in another tree to get the full 3 points in Demonic Resilience. 1 point is okay and I mean, thats what I have Fel Domination for, so I guess its okay, lol.
More for PvP ... Shadowburn is a guaranteed instant cast (unless I have no shards) ... Nightfall falls into that "may happen, may not" area and it seems Nightfall always procs more in PvE than PvP
I use Drain Life a lot in PvP, as it works so well with Soul Link. It helps Nightfall proc a LOT.
Also.. fully specced Nightfall can proc a LOT more than you think. I've had it proc 3 times back-to-back-to-back in the space of like.. 6 seconds when I only had Corruption on 2-3 targets in a BG.
With Soul Siphon, Drain Life + Soul Link is even better.
Have you ever stacked DoTs on a Rogue, sicked your demon on them, then just Drain Life them? Their health melts away while yours barely drops. Also, they can't get behind you, even if they keep circling you, because Drain Life makes you auto-face them.
A lot of Warlocks underestimate Drain Life. What is better than damaging an enemy while healing yourself?
Shadowbolt's Fel guard pic has a level 60 Fel Guard with 335 Stam and 176Int, which would give the Warlock +76 spell damage. Toss BOK, AI, MOTW, and Fort on him and he's got... 458stam and 241Int, which would give the Warlock +104.85 spell damage.
Although, Shadowbolt's Fel guard didn't gain any stam/int benefits from pet scaling. Hopefully, thats something that just hasnt yet been implemented for Warlocks.
Oh, and like Black Heart said, drain life already was handy in pvp, and now it's even better with a baseline 30 yard range, or 36 talented.
Ok, what is a drain tanking build? All I can think of is you take that talent that gets you to be less likely to be inturrupted during drain life and you just drain them while they beat on you. Doesn't sound too effective. Anyone care to clear that up?
I, too, am leveling a warlock, and would like a quick explanation of 'drain-tanking', please. Unless you can simply link a discussion of said technique? Thanks.
Have 5 points in Fel Concentration. Send pet to attack target and stack DoTs. Life Tap if desired, and cast Drain Life untill mob is dead. Nightfall can hurt efficiency, dont use the proc if you dont need to. I would use it to pull if it hadnt faded, but using it to finish of a mob is usually a waste of mana if your DoTs are still up.
Oh, and like Black Heart said, drain life already was handy in pvp, and now it's even better with a baseline 30 yard range, or 36 talented.
Damnit, now I need to get that grimm reach talent!
Well, I was looking at this but now I want Grim Reach. If Im gonna be aiming for mostly Instance capability (with PvP definately goin on inbetween) what do I want more? Grim Reach or Night Fall? Any other tips would be appreciated also.
Oh, and like Black Heart said, drain life already was handy in pvp, and now it's even better with a baseline 30 yard range, or 36 talented.
Damnit, now I need to get that grimm reach talent!
Well, I was looking at this but now I want Grim Reach. If Im gonna be aiming for mostly Instance capability (with PvP definately goin on inbetween) what do I want more? Grim Reach or Night Fall? Any other tips would be appreciated also.
I'd drop a couple points in Mana Feed to get Grim Reach.
I'm only 23, but I think I'm doing okay. I'm kinda worried I'm doing a lame job at being a Demonology warlock in PvE. I have a macro that attack-pets/CoA's something, then blueberry snags with torment and I load Corruption/Immolation on it. Then I dunno what to do. Drain Life usually. Wand? :P
To further expand on my earlier post about changing from Destro (NF/Conflag) to SM/DS My Current Build.
Last night i properly tried to grind for the first time with this new build and the results were amazing, i read somewhere on here that we tailors should be saving up 400 ish rune cloth for the push through to nethercloth so i trotted off to silithius for a bit of grinding, on landing i realise that i have no Mana drinks with me, a scan of the guild page show that there i 1 mage online and he is in WPL . Guh.
The locks in the guild assure me i am not going to need any and i trot off to a twilight camp. Well i basically was grinding for about 3 hours non stop. Died 1 time from getting jumped on by the Twilight Fucker, i mean prophet, collected 140ish runecloth, 48 twilight texts, about 13 sets of twilight trappings and got about 200 rep with CC. I was astounded by the grind power of this build.
My basic approach was Immolate > Siphon Life > Corr > CoA > Drain life. If Nightfall procs launch the Sbolt for a faster kill, hit life tap twice and start again on the next mob.
To those locks who are leveling, seriously take the Darkpact talent asap it will help out alot mid level.
I use the exact same strategy, only I got from Immolate > COA > SL > Corr > Drain.
Reason being... Immolate is obvious, COA needs to warm up so using it first gets the most out of it, SL just in time for them to start swinging, Corr because it has the shortest time, then drain.
TDL on
Meet me on my vast veranda
My sweet, untouched Miranda
And while the seagulls are crying
We fall but our souls are flying
Acutally, a nerf and a buff. Felguard DS is now 2% mana/6 seconds instead of 2%/4 seconds. As for the buffage, Unholy Power now adds 1% to the warlock's shadow and fire damage per point spent on the talent.
Mr Slippy Fist on
Yes, I hate my username and wish I could sign up with a new one. Registration sucks.
I was waffling between speccing Affliction or Demonology come TBC (been demonology for about 7 months, just respecced to SM/Ruin last week for shits and giggles), but yesterday's and today's changes to the Demo tree sealed the deal. I'll be 0/41/10 at TBC launch and probably 5/45/11 at level 70.
Mr Slippy Fist on
Yes, I hate my username and wish I could sign up with a new one. Registration sucks.
Man, I cant wait for BC to hit so I can respec, but first I need to get to level 52 so I can get the fel guard right of the bat. Currently 31, s oI dunno if Ill be able to make that, buuuut oh well.
I was waffling between speccing Affliction or Demonology come TBC (been demonology for about 7 months, just respecced to SM/Ruin last week for shits and giggles), but yesterday's and today's changes to the Demo tree sealed the deal. I'll be 0/41/10 at TBC launch and probably 5/45/11 at level 70.
Wouldn't you rather an affliction/demo build once BC hits, considering, that you will for the most part be leveling again. You're going to want the low downtime talents of imp soul drain/lifetap/fel concentration.
God damn Demonology is so fucking awesome now. Its damage capacity is almost as high as the other trees but the with the survivability of Soul Link and a strong demon at your side. I'm loving it.
Totally going to grab the Felguard once BC hits. I still may switch to Affliction for levelling, but I can't wait to have the Felguard for PvP.
I was waffling between speccing Affliction or Demonology come TBC (been demonology for about 7 months, just respecced to SM/Ruin last week for shits and giggles), but yesterday's and today's changes to the Demo tree sealed the deal. I'll be 0/41/10 at TBC launch and probably 5/45/11 at level 70.
Wouldn't you rather an affliction/demo build once BC hits, considering, that you will for the most part be leveling again. You're going to want the low downtime talents of imp soul drain/lifetap/fel concentration.
Eh, downtime was never really that big of a concern for me, really. I'll be out leveling at a leisurely pace and really want to try out the Felguard for that, so there's 41 points.
Plus my guild is a casual raiding guild (currently working in BWL), no required events, no required attendance, no required specs, etc, etc, meaning lots of people will be doing lots of different things. I know some who will race to 70 and will skip any raids to level, while some will still want to raid and whatnot. Myself, I'll still want to be raiding, if for nothing else than to experience the content. I figure I'll be casting Shadowbolt more than Corruption doing that, so Bane would be more of a help. So there's all 51 points I'd have at 60.
But yeah, if it does end up being annoyingly slow, I'd definitely try something different. I love the TBC Affliction tree, I just love the Demonology tree more.
Mr Slippy Fist on
Yes, I hate my username and wish I could sign up with a new one. Registration sucks.
Eh, downtime was never really that big of a concern for me, really. I'll be out leveling at a leisurely pace and really want to try out the Felguard for that, so there's 41 points.
Plus my guild is a casual raiding guild (currently working in BWL), no required events, no required attendance, no required specs, etc, etc, meaning lots of people will be doing lots of different things. I know some who will race to 70 and will skip any raids to level, while some will still want to raid and whatnot. Myself, I'll still want to be raiding, if for nothing else than to experience the content. I figure I'll be casting Shadowbolt more than Corruption doing that, so Bane would be more of a help. So there's all 51 points I'd have at 60.
But yeah, if it does end up being annoyingly slow, I'd definitely try something different. I love the TBC Affliction tree, I just love the Demonology tree more.
Ya, I doubt it'd be annoyingly slow. I too am definetly considering a demo build to start out with the new buff to demo dps, so given that 41 are already spent in demo, those last 10, I'm putting more weight into affliction for the sheer mana efficiency while soloing, which unless leveling changes drastically in BC, will be where most of the exp comes from. Although maybe the new instances will be designed so well that I'll spend most of the time grouped, in which case, yeah bane looks mighty tasty. But its all up to how you like to play. Too many damn good talents to pick from, how tragic.
I'm SM/Ruin now, and thinking about respeccing to soul link?
Is this build fun? Good to PvP with?
IMO, soul link is great because its not very gear dependant. Its funitude can only be measured based on what kind of gameplay you like. You'll outlast most players and completly walk over spell casters with your felhunter. Most mages won't even bother looking at you. Most of your damage will, however, come from dots as you have no quick DD spells. Personally, as my gear got better, the temptations to take advantage of better crit rates and spell damage with ruin became too much and I specced off SL. It was nice being able to beat most epicced players in blues.
In BC, the demo tree is getting a massive dps boost, so I may see myself back in SL soon.
Ok, it seems like Warlocks are getting sooooo many buffs, are the other classes getting this kinda stuff? Or was there really that much wrong with our class?
Christ my SL warlock is 54 right now, and I've been grinding off of Deadpaw or whatever they are in felwood for +Timbermaw faction (he's also a 255 chanter at this point)
Last night I got a nasty chain of adds that ended up being 8 blogs coming at me over the course of the fight, and always having more than 1 on me, until the end (when there was only 1 left standing) when that was all over. I looted them.. looked at my health, my pets health, my mana, and ran off to find more furblogs
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
Lawlz at the unholy power change. That's now flat out better than demonic tactics, you know, that talent all the way up there that requires 35 points?
Yeah, unholy power buffs all of your felguard's damage by 20%, and in most cases, probably over 90% of your warlock's damage by 5%, compared to 5 and 5 for tactics.
Lawlz at the unholy power change. That's now flat out better than demonic tactics, you know, that talent all the way up there that requires 35 points?
Yeah, unholy power buffs all of your felguard's damage by 20%, and in most cases, probably over 90% of your warlock's damage by 5%, compared to 5 and 5 for tactics.
Hmmm... this is true, so should I just skip that? I'd put the points in Mana Feed and Demonic Resiliance.
Lawlz at the unholy power change. That's now flat out better than demonic tactics, you know, that talent all the way up there that requires 35 points?
Yeah, unholy power buffs all of your felguard's damage by 20%, and in most cases, probably over 90% of your warlock's damage by 5%, compared to 5 and 5 for tactics.
Hmmm... this is true, so should I just skip that? I'd put the points in Mana Feed and Demonic Resiliance.
It might be a good idea in it's current form, although right now, I don't really think a full 3/3 mana feed would be necessary, for the felguard at least. For dpsing, his only mana cost is cleave, once every 6 seconds, for roughly 150 mana at level 60. I tend to life tap a lot in raids, so I don't think the full 100% transfer would be needed there, so I may just put that extra point into 1/5 tactics.
It might be a good idea in it's current form, although right now, I don't really think a full 3/3 mana feed would be necessary, for the felguard at least. For dpsing, his only mana cost is cleave, once every 6 seconds, for roughly 150 mana at level 60. I tend to life tap a lot in raids, so I don't think the full 100% transfer would be needed there, so I may just put that extra point into 1/5 tactics.
Decisions decisions. Maybe something like this? I love mana feed because it always shits me when my voidwalker eventually runs out of mana from taunting everything while I'm still 100%. It would work great for a machine gun imp as well.
It might be a good idea in it's current form, although right now, I don't really think a full 3/3 mana feed would be necessary, for the felguard at least. For dpsing, his only mana cost is cleave, once every 6 seconds, for roughly 150 mana at level 60. I tend to life tap a lot in raids, so I don't think the full 100% transfer would be needed there, so I may just put that extra point into 1/5 tactics.
Decisions decisions. Maybe something like this? I love mana feed because it always shits me when my voidwalker eventually runs out of mana from taunting everything while I'm still 100%. It would work great for a machine gun imp as well.
I wonder if they'll tweak Demonic Tactics....?
I think Ill go with this unless they make a change to Demonic Tactics and make it more appealing. This will let me "machine gun" my imp in raids and have my voidwalker last longer on his mana. Resiliance is there just because Id rather have that than 3/5 of tactics. Of course I dont have any of the improved summons... oh well.
Oh man, things just keep getting better and better.
New changes:
Firestones and spellstones are now equipped in ranged slots and act as relics. The firestone's effect is the same, it adds some fire damage when you melee, and adds +fire damage to your spells.
The spellstone, however, increases crit rating aaaaand...now only dispels harmful magic effects on you, and it isn't consumed. Instead it gets a 3 minute cooldown.
So do they plan on making every talent and skill for every class not useless like they are currently doing for Warlocks? Or what?
Heh, like someone said on the forums, warlocks will still die in pvp, only know it'll be because they're so good, they'll be paralyzed with indecision as to how to best kill their opponent.
Posts
I really hope they implement something like "pet gets master's buffs" cuz I don't want to individually bless warlock pets
As best as I can figure, the felhunter has somewhere around 160 base dps at level 60(slightly less now I guess with the MD change), and you'd get a whopping 42 dps increase in felguard dps(spamming cleave of course) with 400 +damage. He seems to do pretty good dps, and with today's changes, hopefully will be able to survive most raid fights.
(helloooo nightfall / fel guard spec)
I'd say if your focus is raiding eventually, then undisputedly shadowburn, for bane.
For pvp, either way.
More for PvP ... Shadowburn is a guaranteed instant cast (unless I have no shards) ... Nightfall falls into that "may happen, may not" area and it seems Nightfall always procs more in PvE than PvP
WTB fort/ai/bok/mow buffs on my felguard please.
With new Demon Scaling, Demonic Knowledge rocks.
The more Stamina and Int a Warlock gets, scales with his demon. Meaning the demon gets more Stam and Int, which increases the Warlock's Spell damage, which in-turn increases the Demon's attack/spell power.
Its like, just by getting more Stam/Int, Demo Warlocks can increase all their abilities and their demons. It's so ingenius.
Demonic Resilience is great too, gonna make it a lot harder to kill the Felguard, but shit... I would have to give up points in another tree to get the full 3 points in Demonic Resilience. 1 point is okay and I mean, thats what I have Fel Domination for, so I guess its okay, lol.
I use Drain Life a lot in PvP, as it works so well with Soul Link. It helps Nightfall proc a LOT.
Also.. fully specced Nightfall can proc a LOT more than you think. I've had it proc 3 times back-to-back-to-back in the space of like.. 6 seconds when I only had Corruption on 2-3 targets in a BG.
With Soul Siphon, Drain Life + Soul Link is even better.
Have you ever stacked DoTs on a Rogue, sicked your demon on them, then just Drain Life them? Their health melts away while yours barely drops. Also, they can't get behind you, even if they keep circling you, because Drain Life makes you auto-face them.
A lot of Warlocks underestimate Drain Life. What is better than damaging an enemy while healing yourself?
Oh, and like Black Heart said, drain life already was handy in pvp, and now it's even better with a baseline 30 yard range, or 36 talented.
I, too, am leveling a warlock, and would like a quick explanation of 'drain-tanking', please. Unless you can simply link a discussion of said technique? Thanks.
Damnit, now I need to get that grimm reach talent!
Well, I was looking at this but now I want Grim Reach. If Im gonna be aiming for mostly Instance capability (with PvP definately goin on inbetween) what do I want more? Grim Reach or Night Fall? Any other tips would be appreciated also.
Jordan of Elienor, Human Shaman
Last night i properly tried to grind for the first time with this new build and the results were amazing, i read somewhere on here that we tailors should be saving up 400 ish rune cloth for the push through to nethercloth so i trotted off to silithius for a bit of grinding, on landing i realise that i have no Mana drinks with me, a scan of the guild page show that there i 1 mage online and he is in WPL . Guh.
The locks in the guild assure me i am not going to need any and i trot off to a twilight camp. Well i basically was grinding for about 3 hours non stop. Died 1 time from getting jumped on by the Twilight Fucker, i mean prophet, collected 140ish runecloth, 48 twilight texts, about 13 sets of twilight trappings and got about 200 rep with CC. I was astounded by the grind power of this build.
My basic approach was Immolate > Siphon Life > Corr > CoA > Drain life. If Nightfall procs launch the Sbolt for a faster kill, hit life tap twice and start again on the next mob.
To those locks who are leveling, seriously take the Darkpact talent asap it will help out alot mid level.
Reason being... Immolate is obvious, COA needs to warm up so using it first gets the most out of it, SL just in time for them to start swinging, Corr because it has the shortest time, then drain.
My sweet, untouched Miranda
And while the seagulls are crying
We fall but our souls are flying
Acutally, a nerf and a buff. Felguard DS is now 2% mana/6 seconds instead of 2%/4 seconds. As for the buffage, Unholy Power now adds 1% to the warlock's shadow and fire damage per point spent on the talent.
Jordan of Elienor, Human Shaman
Wouldn't you rather an affliction/demo build once BC hits, considering, that you will for the most part be leveling again. You're going to want the low downtime talents of imp soul drain/lifetap/fel concentration.
Totally going to grab the Felguard once BC hits. I still may switch to Affliction for levelling, but I can't wait to have the Felguard for PvP.
Plus my guild is a casual raiding guild (currently working in BWL), no required events, no required attendance, no required specs, etc, etc, meaning lots of people will be doing lots of different things. I know some who will race to 70 and will skip any raids to level, while some will still want to raid and whatnot. Myself, I'll still want to be raiding, if for nothing else than to experience the content. I figure I'll be casting Shadowbolt more than Corruption doing that, so Bane would be more of a help. So there's all 51 points I'd have at 60.
But yeah, if it does end up being annoyingly slow, I'd definitely try something different. I love the TBC Affliction tree, I just love the Demonology tree more.
Is this build fun? Good to PvP with?
Ya, I doubt it'd be annoyingly slow. I too am definetly considering a demo build to start out with the new buff to demo dps, so given that 41 are already spent in demo, those last 10, I'm putting more weight into affliction for the sheer mana efficiency while soloing, which unless leveling changes drastically in BC, will be where most of the exp comes from. Although maybe the new instances will be designed so well that I'll spend most of the time grouped, in which case, yeah bane looks mighty tasty. But its all up to how you like to play. Too many damn good talents to pick from, how tragic.
IMO, soul link is great because its not very gear dependant. Its funitude can only be measured based on what kind of gameplay you like. You'll outlast most players and completly walk over spell casters with your felhunter. Most mages won't even bother looking at you. Most of your damage will, however, come from dots as you have no quick DD spells. Personally, as my gear got better, the temptations to take advantage of better crit rates and spell damage with ruin became too much and I specced off SL. It was nice being able to beat most epicced players in blues.
In BC, the demo tree is getting a massive dps boost, so I may see myself back in SL soon.
For channeled and and spells with cast time, the formula is:
cast time/3.5*100%
For dots, the formula is:
duration/15*100%
Corruption: 120%
Curse of Agony: 160%
Siphon Life: 100%
Drain life: 71.5%
Drain soul: 215%
Curse of Doom: 400%
Soulfire: 171%
Hellfire: 141%
Rain of Fire: 76%
TL;DR - Spells get the same DPS % gain from damage gear regardless of their duration/cast time.
I suggested the DoT change after a discussion on the Warlock Board a few months back
Currently they get buffed if you use a group buff, but not a single target buff.
Jordan of Elienor, Human Shaman
An angelic choir just sang.
Last night I got a nasty chain of adds that ended up being 8 blogs coming at me over the course of the fight, and always having more than 1 on me, until the end (when there was only 1 left standing) when that was all over. I looted them.. looked at my health, my pets health, my mana, and ran off to find more furblogs
Yeah, unholy power buffs all of your felguard's damage by 20%, and in most cases, probably over 90% of your warlock's damage by 5%, compared to 5 and 5 for tactics.
Hmmm... this is true, so should I just skip that? I'd put the points in Mana Feed and Demonic Resiliance.
Jordan of Elienor, Human Shaman
It might be a good idea in it's current form, although right now, I don't really think a full 3/3 mana feed would be necessary, for the felguard at least. For dpsing, his only mana cost is cleave, once every 6 seconds, for roughly 150 mana at level 60. I tend to life tap a lot in raids, so I don't think the full 100% transfer would be needed there, so I may just put that extra point into 1/5 tactics.
I wonder if they'll tweak Demonic Tactics....?
I think Ill go with this unless they make a change to Demonic Tactics and make it more appealing. This will let me "machine gun" my imp in raids and have my voidwalker last longer on his mana. Resiliance is there just because Id rather have that than 3/5 of tactics. Of course I dont have any of the improved summons... oh well.
Jordan of Elienor, Human Shaman
I think we'd all be planning on using imps in raids for their insane dps, if they could survive.
New changes:
Firestones and spellstones are now equipped in ranged slots and act as relics. The firestone's effect is the same, it adds some fire damage when you melee, and adds +fire damage to your spells.
The spellstone, however, increases crit rating aaaaand...now only dispels harmful magic effects on you, and it isn't consumed. Instead it gets a 3 minute cooldown.
This is a bit exagerrated. I'm happy that Warlocks are getting changes
Heh, like someone said on the forums, warlocks will still die in pvp, only know it'll be because they're so good, they'll be paralyzed with indecision as to how to best kill their opponent.