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This thread is kinda dead and pointless, but I have a great idea to make it alive and worthy:
Episode 2 gameplay refinements you want to see now you've played one:
Post!
I'd go for a better method for inspecting in XBLA that doesn't force you to walk right up to an object until a tiny balloon pops up (it's nearly useless in SDTVs and a waste of time compared to mouse-and-keyboard everywhere).
Brighter flash or indication for dodging would be nice. I got it pretty freqently but if something distracted me I would miss it.
Some more kameos and easter eggs would be great. I'm curious if you bring in magic or learnable skills in the next episodes.
Overall a great start. A very polished and tight game that has great presentation. I loved it and really look forward to the next one.
This and LostWinds have me thinking Episodic content should get bigger. A shorter game experience is easier to digest, paced better, and more fun I think. Leaving me hanging is a little annoying. But i'm the kind of person who can digest 1000+ page books in one or two sittings.
Brighter flash or indication for dodging would be nice. I got it pretty freqently but if something distracted me I would miss it.
Some more kameos and easter eggs would be great. I'm curious if you bring in magic or learnable skills in the next episodes.
Overall a great start. A very polished and tight game that has great presentation. I loved it and really look forward to the next one.
This and LostWinds have me thinking Episodic content should get bigger. A shorter game experience is easier to digest, paced better, and more fun I think. Leaving me hanging is a little annoying. But i'm the kind of person who can digest 1000+ page books in one or two sittings.
I think Portal had the perfect episodic structure, despite not being episodic. The story wrapped up nicely and you got the feeling the game mechanics had been thoroughly explored by the end. At the same time, the door was left open for an episode 2, it didn't feel expensive and it encouraged multiple playthroughs adn included bonus content, like a movie would do.
And that brings me to one feature I'd love: ¡Creators' commentary track!
mntorankusuI'm not sure how to use this thing....Registered Userregular
edited May 2008
I think the game really, really needs to make it more clear when an enemy is attacking and which one is doing it. Zoom the camera in on them, or something. If I'm focusing on the bottom of the screen trying to find an item to use, it is easy to miss the fact that I'm about to get raped by a hobo.
An option for a "wait" mode like in the Final Fantasy games would help with that, too. Pause the battle while I'm making menu selections like items or selecting a special attack.
I think the game really, really needs to make it more clear when an enemy is attacking and which one is doing it. Zoom the camera in on them, or something. If I'm focusing on the bottom of the screen trying to find an item to use, it is easy to miss the fact that I'm about to get raped by a hobo.
An option for a "wait" mode like in the Final Fantasy games would help with that, too. Pause the battle while I'm making menu selections like items or selecting a special attack.
I couldn't disagree more. I like the fact that I'm rushed in selecting my attacks, and I think that the guy running up to you is actually pretty clear.
Willeth on
@vgreminders - Don't miss out on timed events in gaming! @gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
I think the game really, really needs to make it more clear when an enemy is attacking and which one is doing it. Zoom the camera in on them, or something. If I'm focusing on the bottom of the screen trying to find an item to use, it is easy to miss the fact that I'm about to get raped by a hobo.
An option for a "wait" mode like in the Final Fantasy games would help with that, too. Pause the battle while I'm making menu selections like items or selecting a special attack.
I actually thought that was the best part of combat. The key to fighting in this game was A> blocking as much as possible and B> efficiantly managing your initiative bars (later, keeping track of enemy weaknesses and stacking over debuffs with buffs became very important too). It would have been way too easy if it had wait mode or made it more obvious when an attack happened. When you're being attacked, you really have to drop what you're doing and focus on the block which causes you to sacrifice your attack efficiency a bit. Once you get better at it, you're able to well juggle the defense and commanding.
Senor Mushroom on
"Video Games hurt children? Thats what they said about rock and roll."
0
mntorankusuI'm not sure how to use this thing....Registered Userregular
I think the game really, really needs to make it more clear when an enemy is attacking and which one is doing it. Zoom the camera in on them, or something. If I'm focusing on the bottom of the screen trying to find an item to use, it is easy to miss the fact that I'm about to get raped by a hobo.
An option for a "wait" mode like in the Final Fantasy games would help with that, too. Pause the battle while I'm making menu selections like items or selecting a special attack.
I couldn't disagree more. I like the fact that I'm rushed in selecting my attacks, and I think that the guy running up to you is actually pretty clear.
Not all attacks involve someone running up to you, and battles with 3 or 4 enemies can become pretty confusing, visually. I just want something big and obvious that I can see no matter where I'm focusing my eyes to tell me that I'm about to be attacked. The camera focusing or zooming in on the character performing an action is a common way that RPGs do this.
I think the game really, really needs to make it more clear when an enemy is attacking and which one is doing it. Zoom the camera in on them, or something. If I'm focusing on the bottom of the screen trying to find an item to use, it is easy to miss the fact that I'm about to get raped by a hobo.
An option for a "wait" mode like in the Final Fantasy games would help with that, too. Pause the battle while I'm making menu selections like items or selecting a special attack.
I couldn't disagree more. I like the fact that I'm rushed in selecting my attacks, and I think that the guy running up to you is actually pretty clear.
Not all attacks involve someone running up to you, and battles with 3 or 4 enemies can become pretty confusing, visually. I just want something big and obvious that I can see no matter where I'm focusing my eyes to tell me that I'm about to be attacked. The camera focusing or zooming in on the character performing an action is a common way that RPGs do this.
I repeat what I said above. i think that would make the game too easy and take all the frantic-ness out of the gameplay, which was what made the simple mechanics fun.
Senor Mushroom on
"Video Games hurt children? Thats what they said about rock and roll."
I would like the circles to fill up just a little faster in the beginning. I end up just sitting their while both me and the enemy wait to have options available.
I would like the circles to fill up just a little faster in the beginning. I end up just sitting their while both me and the enemy wait to have options available.
Speed potions.
And there's also a red box that appears with the name of the attack at the top of the screen. That could be useful.
Willeth on
@vgreminders - Don't miss out on timed events in gaming! @gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
0
KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
If you don't feel you got value for money, say so, don't try to be 'crafty' about it.
lol.
I'd love it if the investigation/puzzle side was vastly inflamed. I want more awesome combat, sure, and I think just fixing the 2-3 bugs is a reasonable enough request, but I bought it because it was penny arcade, which means hilarious art/dialogue (delivered). So just that again, more of it, more awesome if physically possible. And even mod tools would be great! Just the ability to insert your own models, flash sequences, and static artwork, design levels, blah blah... it'd rock to have dev support. A mod community can really sell a game, and just think of the PA fanwerkz.
Holy crap, I just thought... what if this is too successful, and they stop the comic to focus on games? OH SHIT SON!
I agree with Senor Mushroom, the rapid pace of the combat kept it interesting.
It reminds me of my first experience with a MMO that used an "Active" combat system. What was at the times called "Final Fantasy II".... You MAY have heard of it.
I was blown away by it. In fact even talking about it makes me want to play through it again.
Not all attacks involve someone running up to you, and battles with 3 or 4 enemies can become pretty confusing, visually. I just want something big and obvious that I can see no matter where I'm focusing my eyes to tell me that I'm about to be attacked. The camera focusing or zooming in on the character performing an action is a common way that RPGs do this.
I would make a snide comment recommending candyland to you at this point, but I won't.
Just because it is common does not mean that it is the best. That very focusing and "ease of play" is really something that detracts from modern RPG combat.
It should not all be about cool poses and animations. But I'm old and crotchety, I remember the blessed time before the cut scene.
Having said that, and because this is not my first rodeo and I don't have the energy to re-fight a flame war that I got tired of fighting 10 years ago, I'll admit that cut scenes are "really cool, and essential to the storytelling of a RPG", battle animations and dramatic poses are "really cool, and essential to the RPG experience", and that ease of use and approachability are key to "any" rpg's success.
and that I am abject moron for daring to talk bad about them in any way.
I feel dirty now... But it is for the common good!
antichris on
"Everything was going great - That is, until he fought the devil." My name is antichris, and I approve this message.
0
mntorankusuI'm not sure how to use this thing....Registered Userregular
Not all attacks involve someone running up to you, and battles with 3 or 4 enemies can become pretty confusing, visually. I just want something big and obvious that I can see no matter where I'm focusing my eyes to tell me that I'm about to be attacked. The camera focusing or zooming in on the character performing an action is a common way that RPGs do this.
I would make a snide comment recommending candyland to you at this point, but I won't.
Just because it is common does not mean that it is the best. That very focusing and "ease of play" is really something that detracts from modern RPG combat.
It should not all be about cool poses and animations. But I'm old and crotchety, I remember the blessed time before the cut scene.
I would say "fuck you, too", but you didn't make that comment, so I won't.
I don't care if there are fancy poses. I don't care if there are cool animations. Who's talking about cutscenes? I don't really care about "ease of play" as much as I want the battle interface to be clearer about what's going on. Leave the gameplay alone and make it text-based for all I care, I just don't understand why you would want to purposely avoid making what's happening on the screen as clear as possible. What purpose does it serve?
I don't know which version you have, but I'm playing the Xbox 360 version, which makes a difference. I'm sure the interface is better on the PC, and maybe it's perfectly fine and dandy. But it doesn't work for me when I'm sitting a normal distance from my TV.
I agree with Senor Mushroom, the rapid pace of the combat kept it interesting.
It reminds me of my first experience with a MMO that used an "Active" combat system. What was at the times called "Final Fantasy II".... You MAY have heard of it.
I was blown away by it. In fact even talking about it makes me want to play through it again.
Not all attacks involve someone running up to you, and battles with 3 or 4 enemies can become pretty confusing, visually. I just want something big and obvious that I can see no matter where I'm focusing my eyes to tell me that I'm about to be attacked. The camera focusing or zooming in on the character performing an action is a common way that RPGs do this.
I would make a snide comment recommending candyland to you at this point, but I won't.
Just because it is common does not mean that it is the best. That very focusing and "ease of play" is really something that detracts from modern RPG combat.
It should not all be about cool poses and animations. But I'm old and crotchety, I remember the blessed time before the cut scene.
Having said that, and because this is not my first rodeo and I don't have the energy to re-fight a flame war that I got tired of fighting 10 years ago, I'll admit that cut scenes are "really cool, and essential to the storytelling of a RPG", battle animations and dramatic poses are "really cool, and essential to the RPG experience", and that ease of use and approachability are key to "any" rpg's success.
and that I am abject moron for daring to talk bad about them in any way.
I feel dirty now... But it is for the common good!
Then again, Final Fantasy II already had a big fucking arrow pointing at the next character who could or was going to perform an action, which is what... that guy whose name is a long string of random letters requested. If they replaced it with a camera move, the same purpose would be served, with more flair. And if the prompt was made with a new panel popping up and presenting a more comic-book like experience while allowing you to overview the battle at the same time, they'd be really improving both presntation and gameplay.
I agree with you on your totally unrelated sarcastic rant, though, time-consuming animation is bad for combat-focused RPGs. There is a balance somewhere between making games look good, play fast and be clear, though, and the game can improve on the search for it.
I'll second the request for heavier puzzle elements, too. Everybody agrees that presentation and storytelling are the main draws on the game, so keeping the combat transparent and simple and adding more situational stuff where the comedy gets to shine is probably a good idea for future iterations.
That's actually reminded me of something; a lot of the inhouse testing I see done on 360s are with people sitting at desks with the TVs right in front of them. Perhaps this is part of the problem with SDTV getting the raw end of the deal when it comes to 360 testing, especially when you have smaller companies developing with less resources available for testing.
More customisation and branching paths for character development. I'm not talking about story here, just like... what if at the start of Ep1, you got to choose a Rake, a Hoe, or a Watering can? Kind of a stupid idea, but it'd give the game 3 playthroughs. As it is now, I played through once, I played through a second time for completionism, and I don't know if I could stay interested a third time. That's ten hours, or something. I probably, you know, will play it again, but... only because daddy is very very sick.
edit section: What I mean is, as this game is being compared to portal, it's fair to mention that I played portal like nine times. Speed runs, and acrobatics, and exploits... they kept that game moving. It always felt fun to play the same old levels, it always felt badass to whoop turrets in that game. This game feels like its much shorter than portal, but at least I could stop thinking about portal long enough to play tf2, or whatever. This has dominated my playtime, but in a frustrating, not-enough-there kind of way.
If there were even two by two by two branching paths for your character, that would give it so much replayability. They'd have to balance it though, and I just doubt that there's enough time for them to even make many changes, let alone trawl the forums for them.
More customisation and branching paths for character development. I'm not talking about story here, just like... what if at the start of Ep1, you got to choose a Rake, a Hoe, or a Watering can? Kind of a stupid idea, but it'd give the game 3 playthroughs. As it is now, I played through once, I played through a second time for completionism, and I don't know if I could stay interested a third time. That's ten hours, or something. I probably, you know, will play it again, but... only because daddy is very very sick.
If there were even two by two by two branching paths for your character, that would give it so much replayability. They'd have to balance it though, and I just doubt that there's enough time for them to even make many changes, let alone trawl the forums for them.
Nor will they change the price point, but there's still a huge thread about it in the forums.
Anyway, I agree, character classes might encourage replayability with litlle effort from the developers, since the mechanics only need to be set up once, and they can change the approach to the whole game. But the opposite has lots of potential, too. Since the game is episodic, making loose ends and character development jump from one ep to the next is a cool feature. It's not being used yet, since you never know if Ep1 is gonna be a success, but if the series goes on with good sales, I predict we'll see more experiments like that.
The one thing I would like (that hasn't already been mentioned here, at least I don't think so) would be different reactions from people based on what you say. In episode one there are maybe 2 times when there is one different line of dialogue based on what you say (the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Gabe asking Tycho why he talks to Annarchy like "some kind of a**hole." Not that big of a thing, but just adding that would make the game more refreshing if you played multiple times for achievements, unlockables, etc. I know Tycho has plenty of work to do, but in the future, just adding a couple new lines would be nice.
I agree character classes would be nice, but I doubt they will put them in there, as for carrying over stats and your character into episode 2, that will happen, which will be nice. The thing I am wondering about that is how you will choose what to carry over. Will you pick the save slot to carry over into it? Or will it be almost like an expansion where eventually, you can play all the episodes start to finish?
I can kind of see both sides of the argument here but i would say a slightly easier way of seeing when an attack will hit would be nicer. Perhaps a system where rather than flashing once, that little light flashed say three times in very quick succession or three little black spaces turned white in quick succession? Hitting on the first blink is a counter attack, second is a block, third is a partial block and hitting either before the first blink or after the third is a total miss.
It's a little tricky for me to verbalise but i'm picturing {}{}{} underneath each character with each space filling at maybe a half second interval? Just so i can visualise the mechanic for determining how successful the block is. Bear in mind i'm still balls deep in GTAIV so i've only played about an hour of PA adventures, i may be converted to the wisdom of the control system as it is with more practice.
You can tell I'm not the electronics wiz! In that case I am so glad I played it on there and not the 27 in. My contacts hate text in any form other than in books.
I would love a little arena after the game where I could just take my party and beat on dudes. Something similar to what was in Overlord would be nice.
Posts
Episode 2 gameplay refinements you want to see now you've played one:
Post!
I'd go for a better method for inspecting in XBLA that doesn't force you to walk right up to an object until a tiny balloon pops up (it's nearly useless in SDTVs and a waste of time compared to mouse-and-keyboard everywhere).
Some more kameos and easter eggs would be great. I'm curious if you bring in magic or learnable skills in the next episodes.
Overall a great start. A very polished and tight game that has great presentation. I loved it and really look forward to the next one.
This and LostWinds have me thinking Episodic content should get bigger. A shorter game experience is easier to digest, paced better, and more fun I think. Leaving me hanging is a little annoying. But i'm the kind of person who can digest 1000+ page books in one or two sittings.
I think Portal had the perfect episodic structure, despite not being episodic. The story wrapped up nicely and you got the feeling the game mechanics had been thoroughly explored by the end. At the same time, the door was left open for an episode 2, it didn't feel expensive and it encouraged multiple playthroughs adn included bonus content, like a movie would do.
And that brings me to one feature I'd love: ¡Creators' commentary track!
An option for a "wait" mode like in the Final Fantasy games would help with that, too. Pause the battle while I'm making menu selections like items or selecting a special attack.
I couldn't disagree more. I like the fact that I'm rushed in selecting my attacks, and I think that the guy running up to you is actually pretty clear.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
I actually thought that was the best part of combat. The key to fighting in this game was A> blocking as much as possible and B> efficiantly managing your initiative bars (later, keeping track of enemy weaknesses and stacking over debuffs with buffs became very important too). It would have been way too easy if it had wait mode or made it more obvious when an attack happened. When you're being attacked, you really have to drop what you're doing and focus on the block which causes you to sacrifice your attack efficiency a bit. Once you get better at it, you're able to well juggle the defense and commanding.
Not all attacks involve someone running up to you, and battles with 3 or 4 enemies can become pretty confusing, visually. I just want something big and obvious that I can see no matter where I'm focusing my eyes to tell me that I'm about to be attacked. The camera focusing or zooming in on the character performing an action is a common way that RPGs do this.
I repeat what I said above. i think that would make the game too easy and take all the frantic-ness out of the gameplay, which was what made the simple mechanics fun.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Is it going to be $20 an episode, or $20 for the initial and setup files and $5 to $10 afterwards?
Speed potions.
And there's also a red box that appears with the name of the attack at the top of the screen. That could be useful.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
The desire not to pay $20 per episode?
If you don't feel you got value for money, say so, don't try to be 'crafty' about it.
That's not what I'm implying at all. I'm fine with $20, but I'd be crazy not to like it to be cheaper.
lol.
I'd love it if the investigation/puzzle side was vastly inflamed. I want more awesome combat, sure, and I think just fixing the 2-3 bugs is a reasonable enough request, but I bought it because it was penny arcade, which means hilarious art/dialogue (delivered). So just that again, more of it, more awesome if physically possible. And even mod tools would be great! Just the ability to insert your own models, flash sequences, and static artwork, design levels, blah blah... it'd rock to have dev support. A mod community can really sell a game, and just think of the PA fanwerkz.
Holy crap, I just thought... what if this is too successful, and they stop the comic to focus on games? OH SHIT SON!
It reminds me of my first experience with a MMO that used an "Active" combat system. What was at the times called "Final Fantasy II".... You MAY have heard of it.
I was blown away by it. In fact even talking about it makes me want to play through it again.
I would make a snide comment recommending candyland to you at this point, but I won't.
Just because it is common does not mean that it is the best. That very focusing and "ease of play" is really something that detracts from modern RPG combat.
It should not all be about cool poses and animations. But I'm old and crotchety, I remember the blessed time before the cut scene.
Having said that, and because this is not my first rodeo and I don't have the energy to re-fight a flame war that I got tired of fighting 10 years ago, I'll admit that cut scenes are "really cool, and essential to the storytelling of a RPG", battle animations and dramatic poses are "really cool, and essential to the RPG experience", and that ease of use and approachability are key to "any" rpg's success.
and that I am abject moron for daring to talk bad about them in any way.
I feel dirty now... But it is for the common good!
My name is antichris, and I approve this message.
I would say "fuck you, too", but you didn't make that comment, so I won't.
I don't care if there are fancy poses. I don't care if there are cool animations. Who's talking about cutscenes? I don't really care about "ease of play" as much as I want the battle interface to be clearer about what's going on. Leave the gameplay alone and make it text-based for all I care, I just don't understand why you would want to purposely avoid making what's happening on the screen as clear as possible. What purpose does it serve?
I don't know which version you have, but I'm playing the Xbox 360 version, which makes a difference. I'm sure the interface is better on the PC, and maybe it's perfectly fine and dandy. But it doesn't work for me when I'm sitting a normal distance from my TV.
Then again, Final Fantasy II already had a big fucking arrow pointing at the next character who could or was going to perform an action, which is what... that guy whose name is a long string of random letters requested. If they replaced it with a camera move, the same purpose would be served, with more flair. And if the prompt was made with a new panel popping up and presenting a more comic-book like experience while allowing you to overview the battle at the same time, they'd be really improving both presntation and gameplay.
I agree with you on your totally unrelated sarcastic rant, though, time-consuming animation is bad for combat-focused RPGs. There is a balance somewhere between making games look good, play fast and be clear, though, and the game can improve on the search for it.
I'll second the request for heavier puzzle elements, too. Everybody agrees that presentation and storytelling are the main draws on the game, so keeping the combat transparent and simple and adding more situational stuff where the comedy gets to shine is probably a good idea for future iterations.
I realize it is tempting to segue into an discussion on how awesome you are; but please, don't.
I'm guessing the issue is that I've got an SDTV, but I mean, I would still like to be able to read the screen without squinting!
http://www.audioentropy.com/
More customisation and branching paths for character development. I'm not talking about story here, just like... what if at the start of Ep1, you got to choose a Rake, a Hoe, or a Watering can? Kind of a stupid idea, but it'd give the game 3 playthroughs. As it is now, I played through once, I played through a second time for completionism, and I don't know if I could stay interested a third time. That's ten hours, or something. I probably, you know, will play it again, but... only because daddy is very very sick.
edit section: What I mean is, as this game is being compared to portal, it's fair to mention that I played portal like nine times. Speed runs, and acrobatics, and exploits... they kept that game moving. It always felt fun to play the same old levels, it always felt badass to whoop turrets in that game. This game feels like its much shorter than portal, but at least I could stop thinking about portal long enough to play tf2, or whatever. This has dominated my playtime, but in a frustrating, not-enough-there kind of way.
If there were even two by two by two branching paths for your character, that would give it so much replayability. They'd have to balance it though, and I just doubt that there's enough time for them to even make many changes, let alone trawl the forums for them.
Nor will they change the price point, but there's still a huge thread about it in the forums.
Anyway, I agree, character classes might encourage replayability with litlle effort from the developers, since the mechanics only need to be set up once, and they can change the approach to the whole game. But the opposite has lots of potential, too. Since the game is episodic, making loose ends and character development jump from one ep to the next is a cool feature. It's not being used yet, since you never know if Ep1 is gonna be a success, but if the series goes on with good sales, I predict we'll see more experiments like that.
It's actually sorta hard to read even on my high dev TV. The text is very small, I found myself inching up closer then I usually play games.
I agree character classes would be nice, but I doubt they will put them in there, as for carrying over stats and your character into episode 2, that will happen, which will be nice. The thing I am wondering about that is how you will choose what to carry over. Will you pick the save slot to carry over into it? Or will it be almost like an expansion where eventually, you can play all the episodes start to finish?
It's a little tricky for me to verbalise but i'm picturing {}{}{} underneath each character with each space filling at maybe a half second interval? Just so i can visualise the mechanic for determining how successful the block is. Bear in mind i'm still balls deep in GTAIV so i've only played about an hour of PA adventures, i may be converted to the wisdom of the control system as it is with more practice.
Also, I had no problem with the text and I played on my 20 in computer monitor.
Yeah, use the Wii's Opera Browser for confirmation if anyone has any doubt.