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Bringing online sex predators to justice
anonymouseokay
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Anyway, due to reasons that I don't want to get into (little sister was kidnapped by online sex predator), I've been chatting (posed as a younger girl) with online sex offenders that prey on innocent, underage girls online. I've gotten a fair amount of hits from these perverts, and I've gotten their phone numbers and their full names (I get their phone numbers and full names because thats what is needed to bring them down and convict them).
My only is question is, how do I proceed? Do I just phone the police and give them the information? Or do I contact a special branch of the FBI?
My only is question is, how do I proceed? Do I just phone the police and give them the information? Or do I contact a special branch of the FBI?
anonymouseokay on
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Reporting it to the police would pretty much make those people nigh-unprosecutable; even if they were to come up with evidence at a later time, they'd have to prove it was totally unrelated to the evidence you gave them while acting as an agent of the police. You are not the goddamn Batman.
You may think it is the right thing to do, but it won't help. The situation sucks, but it isn't worth it.
However, what you can do is grab the IP's of the people who are contacting you, and take them with thier names to the police. 'Tips' are followed up according to police procedure, and who knows, may net something useful.
I see a lot of things in my line of work, and feel I have a moral obligation to report anything I see as endangerment. The difference between you and I in this, is that I am actually there, generally in the household with a direct observation of events.
On the net, they could be anyone claiming anything, and it is very hard to get convicting evidence under even the best of circumstances. Most busts either happen through rings, undercover work, or through accidental discovery.
You can certainly consult with a local constable, who will likely point out the more helpful things you can do. Get involved on a real world level; passion and commitment go a long way in making the world a better place for everyone.
In general, any kind of vigilante action is going to make it more difficult for the police to do their jobs. At worst, it can land you in trouble with the law.
I personally appreciate the fact that you want to help rid this scum... we need people willing to step up in this world and bring some justice. But the real next step is to do what Sarcastro said and join the police force, do it on the up-and-up... otherwise, as has been said, your pursuit of justice won't get very far. =(
No it won't, unconfirmed third-party information is not treated in the same way as police or agent obtained information.
If he directly involves himself, say, by breaking into buddy's house, stealing incriminating photos and then handing them over to the Commisioner in a yellow manilla envelope with the word 'PEDO-FILE', then yes, he has tampered with evidence and that evidence is no longer admissible.
But to phone in or show up with a list of names, chatlogs and IP's saying, 'here's what I've been doing with my time, is any of this useful'?, isn't going to hurt anything. The information itself is not admissible, but if they serve as tips, then the information obtained after the fact during the course of an independant investigation is admissible.
More importantly, talking it over with a guy in ICE (or local equivilant) would let the OP find out what would actually be helpful. Volunteering in Victim's Services for example, is probably going to yield a lot more bang for his buck, in terms of effort: helping people out.
That would be lolironiclol.
The only way that a private citizen's search would work is if he wasn't working with the police, OR had any intention of helping the police. So, if he violates a person's privacy for some other reason, and discovers kiddy porn, THAT evidence may be admissable. Although he could still be liable in civil court.
Although he may not be working with the police in this situation, he is working with the intent to help the police. The evidence he is obtaining is unconstitutional, and will be destroyed by the Exclusionary Rule.
Anyways, I think thats right. Someone like Thanatos should probably double check.
Medopine or CoJoe or any of the other, actual lawyers/law students on the boards would know better, though.
Look up the term "Crime Stoppers" and check out how reporting a crime actually works.
This is a weird case, because in essence the OP is perpetrating the crimes he's reporting. Unless he's a 13 year old girl. Then it's totally legit. Otherwise, for his reporting to be of any merit, he would have to stumble on a chatroom in progress or something - actually witness a crime taking place. On the Internet by the way, should you see such a thing, grab the logs and whatever IP's you can, and forward the info off to [email]abuse@(myisp).com[/email] .
Seriously, if you think your neighbor is dealing crack, and you call the cops because you've noticed people coming and going while smoking crack, it does not hamper or endanger any current or future investigation.
I get where you are coming from, but I am interpreting the situation differently. To use your scenario, its more like he noticed people leaving smoking crack, so he went over, bought some, then took it to the police.
Seems like it would have to be a situation like "I stumbled on these conversations between a minor and this perv, and logged his info" to be valid.
This could be your calling, anonymouseokay. Have you considered it? You could become a police officers, and bust them with some true justice, and under the law so that you know that you're not breaking any laws in the pursuit of it.
But why would me turning the predators in be unlawful or somehow detrimental to the police investigating? Perverted Justice is an independent organization that does what I want to do, and they do it without any hitches.
Become a victim's rights advocate, or an activist, or something similar where your rage and bias isn't going to horribly fuck up anyone else's life.
That's exactly it. So Whomever couldn't be arrested on Buddy's evidence- but, given a name and location, they could set up their own initial investigation, see if that guy is actually dirty, sting Crack Dealer and get thier bust.
Two separate incidents.
What? I want to protect other people so what happened to my little sister won't happen to them, so I shouldn't become a police officer?
Since when did I imply that I wanted to become a crusading avenger out for revenge against all criminals? I just don't want the crimes to happen again.
While I agree with you if it were the worst-case scenario Thanatos, I think you should give him the benefit of the doubt. If he were to become some kind of vigilante cop that made up evidence, or beat up prisoners, I'd agree... but if what happened to him simply makes him more determined to do a good job (rather than turn to an unlawful approach to justice), then it could be a great benefit for law enforcement.
I mean, just because something horrible happened to his family doesn't mean that he's going to take that out on others in an unlawful manner. Yes, it means it's possible... but I think you're underestimating the possibility that he could channel it for good, and use it to become a dedicated and honest pursuer of justice. A lot of cops out there could use motivation... he has the potential to have his motivation pre-existing.
I mean, you get trained in what's legal and illegal when you become a police officer. He'd know where the line is, and once he's educated he'd know whether he's stepping over it or working behind it.
Call me overoptimistic if you wish Than... but I think if he were to get the proper training he could put this unfortunate situation to use for the betterment of people... and I'd like to think as well that, though it may be difficult, most people would be able to resist the temptation to break the law in the pursuit of justice once they realize where that line is.
I still don't understand how what I was doing is wrong. I pretend to be a minor, lure in would-be child predators, then turn them over to the cops. I'm not, like, finding out where they live and going to kill them.
And like I said before, organizations like Perverted Justice do the whole bait thing in chat forums all the time.
It's the difference between handing someone a gun and telling them to shoot someone (and then reporting it) and walking down the street and seeing someone shooting another person. In the latter, you saw someone willingly committing a crime without your external persuasion. In the former, you persuaded the event to occur.
And unfortunately, it cannot be known for sure whether they'd do what they did with you had you not persuaded them to engage you. Yes, it can be *heavily* assumed, but assumption doesn't lead to legal precedent.
I'm not certain, but based on all of this I don't think that what Perverted Justice does is legal, or at least not admissible in court... unless they're doing it in some other way, but I can't imagine how they'd pull it off.
Thanks for the explanation, but I don't persuade the predators (I make sure not to).
They ALWAYS approach me, and they always make the sexual suggestions and the suggestions to meet up in real life.
I guess I could compare it with your shooting someone metaphor; what I'm doing is just going to the bad neighborhood, and hoping that someone will come forward and point a gun at me. I'm not giving them the gun or anything...I'm just putting myself in the situation.
Just what you said. You were pretending to be a minor and "luring them in." If a law enforcment officer, or someone working with law enforcement, did that, it would be entrapment. Many people don't really understand what entrapment is, but it's enticing someone to commit a crime when they had no predisposition to do so, and then penalizing them for the crime. That's wrong.
Edit: Looks like I was beat'd.
Good news Guffrey, your degree isn't worthless.
Anything that the OP turns over to the Police in his situation could be ruled inadmissible in court due to the Exclusionary Rule. Even if he didn't contact the police first or work hand-in-hand with them, he still did what he did in an attempt to provide information for prosecution of sexual predators outside of the law. A sharp criminal defense attorney could also raise some other ancillary issues like record falsification and coercion.
Additionally, law enforcement officials are going to be skeptical of this information due to the fact they don't know under what pretenses it was obtained and whether it is even legitimate. I don't practice a lot of criminal law, but I do know that when it comes to online sexual predators, the police have very strict rules regarding potential investigations. At best, they could use it to maybe convince the local DA to green light their own investigations (but they would have to start it from scratch, what you provided wouldn’t ever see the light of day). At worst, it could foul up months of work already done by police officers.
If you really want to help anonymouseokay, I would first suggest you help thyself. Spending your nights pretending to be "13goingon38dds" with men in chat rooms isn't the best way you can help yourself or your sister. Be there for her, help her recover from this, and put the online vigilante dreams away. You’re not the goddamn Batman, but if you keep going, you may end up like Rorschach.
EDIT: In Re: Preverted Justice...most jurisdictions don't let them operate freely and conduct their own investigations for the same reasons as above. They also have strict regulations they adhere to so what they do provide is useful to police. You are not them.
When you're acting as an agent of the police, that shit gets thrown out of court.
There are actually lawsuits pending against perverted justice, along with appeals for some of their prosecutions, not to mention several of the people on their show never go to trial. The OP in this case could also be opening himself up to a civil suit.
Not to mention that unless the OP is from Texas, odds are that none of the people he's accusing of this shit have done anything illegal.
I'm more like bait... I just go out there, and wait until someone bites.
You do realize that the words 'bait' and 'lure' are often interchangeable? Let it go - what you're attempting to do is vigilantism and will probably help these people more than hinder them.
Ok, I understand that, and I won't bring it to the police.
I'm just trying to figure out why I shouldn't, and why it would be bad.
And I realize that being kidnapped by a sex offender is really, truly fucked up. I realize it fucking pisses you off (as it would anybody), and that you feel like you need to go out and get these guys, but this isn't the way to do it.
Have you talked to a counselor, to see what you could be doing to help your sister? Have you tried contacting victims' rights organizations?
I am so jealous. :x