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The Man Bible

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    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2008
    We reap what we sow from gender stereotypes I guess, though in this case the stereotype seems to be the Everyone loves Raymond type of man failure (god I hated that show).

    In real life, that family would have been a mass murder-suicide by like, season 2 at most.


    Anyway, 'man advice'. Sites like this are pretty much always 10% stating the fucking obvious but failing to note that said fucking obvious applies equally to both genders, 90% misogynistic crap that attempts to instruct men to treat women like combination whores and children and peddles this as the path to bliss. In reality, its a path to VD and depression. I pity anyone who actually takes the 'advice' to heart.

    There are female equivalents of these sites, too - MSN's dating 'advice' stuff, for instance. Incoherent, manipulative recipes for how to find yourself alone but for your cat and a restraining order...

    The Cat on
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I'm fairly sure I've heard all this before, only it was in a chain e-mail with seven different fonts and colours. Oh, and I got a free wish if I sent it on to twenty other people.

    Rhesus Positive on
    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Sounds like something you'd read in Maxim.

    Kagera on
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    TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    The Cat wrote: »
    We reap what we sow from gender stereotypes I guess, though in this case the stereotype seems to be the Everyone loves Raymond type of man failure (god I hated that show).

    In real life, that family would have been a mass murder-suicide by like, season 2 at most.


    Anyway, 'man advice'. Sites like this are pretty much always 10% stating the fucking obvious but failing to note that said fucking obvious applies equally to both genders, 90% misogynistic crap that attempts to instruct men to treat women like combination whores and children and peddles this as the path to bliss. In reality, its a path to VD and depression. I pity anyone who actually takes the 'advice' to heart.

    Seriously, can you imagine some poor schmuck reading this drivel? 'oh man should I give her a present? Have I given her too many presents? would that be weird? oh shit maybe I should have been more assertive in picking the movie. oh god now she's going to dump me for sure'

    Tarranon on
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    Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Top 10 First Year Mistakes


    Number 10 - You shower her with gifts


    Top 10: Small Gestures That Turn Women On

    Number 1 - Pamper her

    Somehow I get the feeling they just transcribed as many cliches as possible. There's no coherent line of thought at all.

    edit: I thought this was for money. Upon further review this appears to be pro bono.....

    Admittedly those lists are not exactly the most coherent things in the world, but the highlighted entries are not nearly as contradictory as you seem to be implying: Gifts ≠ pampering; gifts can be seen as negligent attempts at 'bribery', especially if not well thought out. Pampering on the other hand can include more ephemeral things like making her coffee just the way she likes it, before she needs to ask (but not when she doesn't want any).
    Of course, the likelihood that the linked site explains this distinction is low, plus you have to factor in the probability of idiots just reading the lists and performing said actions verbatim and in order, regardless of the response, which is horrifyingly high. Which does make lists a bad thing in this context.
    Of course, the advice you pay for is frequently just as horrible, so eh.
    What I want to know is who copies who first?
    Is this stuff ripped out of Maxim and GQ, or do the magazines trawl the net for their 'advice' columns? Or is there some sort of horrible feed-back mechanism going on here, a negative loop of ever more in(s)ane counsel?

    Mr_Rose on
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    autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Man these rules may sound reasonable to an impressionable 16-year old, and even that's pushing it

    Personally I think the "secret" to relationships is to treat a human being as a human being, with wishes, needs, and interests.

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
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    AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    3. women are inherently unstable and don't know what the **** they want - TRUTH.

    women DO NOT know what they want. Other than a good fvck, attention, and a challenge.

    women are full of ****.

    This is great, coming from someone who repeatedly misspells 'psycology'.

    AnteCantelope on
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    ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    3. women are inherently unstable and don't know what the **** they want - TRUTH.

    women DO NOT know what they want. Other than a good fvck, attention, and a challenge.

    women are full of ****.

    This is great, coming from someone who repeatedly misspells 'psycology'.

    It's less dumb if you correct his terminology.
    3. people are inherently unstable and don't know what the fuck they want - TRUTH.

    people DO NOT know what they want. Other than a good fuck, attention, and not to be bored.

    people are full of shit.

    ViolentChemistry on
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Remember: A woman can't just ask a man if he is the kind of guy who can stand up to the world on her behalf, but she can test you to see if you are the kind of guy who can at least stand up to her.

    What a complete crock of shit. I mean, who is seriously stupid enough to believe this? My ex-girlfriend basically dumped me because I let her use me as a walking carpet, then when she tried to get me to buy a house and financially bury myself for the rest of my life (which was stupid) I stood up to her. The instant I did that, she dumped me less than a week later and never spoke to me again. Clearly, the above is quite wrong and there are women (and men!) who look to just use their partner as a carpet for whatever they want. Standing up to them has the exact opposite effect on the relationship.

    There are other equally ridiculous things as well, but I just have to wonder who on earth believes these sorts of things. Everyone is different, women (in my experience) are not just automatons running around seeing what men are 'dominant' (god I want the rolleyes smiley at this point) for them or similar nonsense.

    Take this for example:
    Remember guys; when they have low Self-Esteem, one guy isn't enough.

    No, low self-esteem among many women couldn't be caused by poor relationships in the past, the current media climate about 'beauty' and other factors. I'm sure many of them don't respond by cheating on their boyfriends either. But hey, I had low self-esteem for a while before, perhaps I'm going to cheat on my girlfriend, or is it only because women are weak and emotional that this counts or something?

    Who honestly buys this crap?

    I haven't read the man bible but if you stood up to her after being submissive for so many years, that might have been the reason she left you. I have however looked into myriad books and sites on the art of pickup in general.

    People who rely on formulas, recipes, lines or whatever will always fall short. Yes you can manipulate your chances with women. Yes some techniques are better then others when approaching a woman of interest. Yes dressing differently and being generally charismatic works but you need to be able to interpret these situations and correct your mistakes. Being yourself won't work. Being your best self will.

    Meiz on
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    KonovaKonova Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Wags wrote: »
    See, what I don't get about these kind of guides is they go on about the "true nature" of humans trying to cite comparisons to non-human animals, using this "alpha male" concept. But from my understanding from some primatology and evolutionary pscyh classes, this isn't really a valid concept to apply to humans. We aren't a hugely sexually dimorphic species and aside from some extreme examples, it's rare for human beings to form harems. I guess basically what I'm saying is that we aren't chimpanzees or gorillas, the notion of being an alpha male is less important for us than it would be for a harem forming species.

    But I could very well be understanding things wrong and I'm open to that. I guess I'm confused, because from what I've learned the premise for these kinds of things doesn't agree with data, even though the premise seems to be implying some sort of universal nature.

    edit: I grant that the man bible doesn't specifically make this kind of appeal, I was curious because other similar guides often do.

    Here's a link I found on google: Alpha Male Mythology, making the same points as you.

    Btw, I find the stark contrast in discourse between the H/A forum and D/D, funny. Then again, I'm fairly new to using these forums.

    Konova on
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    AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    3. women are inherently unstable and don't know what the **** they want - TRUTH.

    women DO NOT know what they want. Other than a good fvck, attention, and a challenge.

    women are full of ****.

    This is great, coming from someone who repeatedly misspells 'psycology'.

    It's less dumb if you correct his terminology.
    3. people are inherently unstable and don't know what the fuck they want - TRUTH.

    people DO NOT know what they want. Other than a good fuck, attention, and not to be bored.

    people are full of shit.

    Well, yes, that is less dumb. But, you know, that's not what he said. He said women are full of shit, and by obviously omitting men, he implied that men aren't full of shit. Which is very dumb.

    AnteCantelope on
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    ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    3. women are inherently unstable and don't know what the **** they want - TRUTH.

    women DO NOT know what they want. Other than a good fvck, attention, and a challenge.

    women are full of ****.

    This is great, coming from someone who repeatedly misspells 'psycology'.

    It's less dumb if you correct his terminology.
    3. people are inherently unstable and don't know what the fuck they want - TRUTH.

    people DO NOT know what they want. Other than a good fuck, attention, and not to be bored.

    people are full of shit.

    Well, yes, that is less dumb. But, you know, that's not what he said. He said women are full of shit, and by obviously omitting men, he implied that men aren't full of shit. Which is very dumb.

    Oh no I know, he's projecting like a motherfucker. And leading people in stupid directions because the only way you can find the valid parts of his dating advice is through experience interacting with people, which if you had you probably wouldn't be looking for a "get-laid formula" in the first place. I'm just pointing out a funny thing.

    ViolentChemistry on
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    ProtoProto Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    The overall theme of all these "guides" is that women are adversaries, something to "win". It's not surprising that they appeal to men who have girl problems, as they already see women as unobtainable trophies.

    Plus it's such a great way to start a healthy relationship!

    Proto on
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    Bliss 101Bliss 101 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Sometimes I think that, being into dudes myself, I'm missing out on something interesting when these mysteries of communication between men and women come up. But then I realize I should just be grateful that at least some things in life are simpler because of the way I am.

    Bliss 101 on
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    KrunkMcGrunkKrunkMcGrunk Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    3. women are inherently unstable and don't know what the **** they want - TRUTH.

    women DO NOT know what they want. Other than a good fvck, attention, and a challenge.

    women are full of ****.

    This is great, coming from someone who repeatedly misspells 'psycology'.

    It's less dumb if you correct his terminology.
    3. people are inherently unstable and don't know what the fuck they want - TRUTH.

    people DO NOT know what they want. Other than a good fuck, attention, and not to be bored.

    people are full of shit.

    Well, yes, that is less dumb. But, you know, that's not what he said. He said women are full of shit, and by obviously omitting men, he implied that men aren't full of shit. Which is very dumb.

    Oh no I know, he's projecting like a motherfucker. And leading people in stupid directions because the only way you can find the valid parts of his dating advice is through experience interacting with people, which if you had you probably wouldn't be looking for a "get-laid formula" in the first place. I'm just pointing out a funny thing.

    Wait. That info was from the dating guy? VC, I'm thinking you'd make a good dating coach. What you said actually makes a bit of sense, in my experience.

    Both genders are largely the same. I hate this "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" gobbledygook.

    KrunkMcGrunk on
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    ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    It's just they're all people. I mean, as far as I can tell.

    ViolentChemistry on
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    RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Guys are known for talking too much? D:

    RocketSauce on
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    KrunkMcGrunkKrunkMcGrunk Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    It's just they're all people. I mean, as far as I can tell.

    You know, this may actually be a revolutionary idea.

    KrunkMcGrunk on
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    ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    Guys are known for talking too much? D:

    This again makes sense if you correct his terminology. I don't think anyone hasn't met a girl who just doesn't shut up anymore than they've never met a guy who just doesn't shut up.

    ViolentChemistry on
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    RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Guys are known for talking too much? D:

    This again makes sense if you correct his terminology. I don't think anyone hasn't met a girl who just doesn't shut up anymore than they've never met a guy who just doesn't shut up.

    He's saying that guys talk too much, and that can ruin the relationship. I don't think I've ever heard a case of that happening. Ever. In the history of the universe.

    I think a better way to have said that is to focus more on having a balanced conversation, which means doing a lot of listening. It makes the other person feel important, and valued, and you don't look like a douche for talking about yourself all the time.

    RocketSauce on
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    KrunkMcGrunkKrunkMcGrunk Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Guys are known for talking too much? D:

    This again makes sense if you correct his terminology. I don't think anyone hasn't met a girl who just doesn't shut up anymore than they've never met a guy who just doesn't shut up.

    Again, you are making a lot of sense.

    KrunkMcGrunk on
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    ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Guys are known for talking too much? D:

    This again makes sense if you correct his terminology. I don't think anyone hasn't met a girl who just doesn't shut up anymore than they've never met a guy who just doesn't shut up.

    He's saying that guys talk too much, and that can ruin the relationship. I don't think I've ever heard a case of that happening. Ever. In the history of the universe.

    Men do talk more than women; although whether that wrecks relationships is another question.

    Æthelred on
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Well one thing I've found is the best way to be annoying is talking when you've got nothing of substance to say.

    However this is not limited to dating situations or specific to men at all.

    nexuscrawler on
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    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2008
    Guys are known for talking too much? D:

    This again makes sense if you correct his terminology. I don't think anyone hasn't met a girl who just doesn't shut up anymore than they've never met a guy who just doesn't shut up.

    He's saying that guys talk too much, and that can ruin the relationship. I don't think I've ever heard a case of that happening. Ever. In the history of the universe.

    Men do talk more than women; although whether that wrecks relationships is another question.

    well, its more complicated than that. People who are socially dominant in a given context talk the most; so bosses > workers, etc.

    The Cat on
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    ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    The Cat wrote: »
    well, its more complicated than that. People who are socially dominant in a given context talk the most; so bosses > workers, etc.

    There's not any proper data on it really; it's impossible to quantify the talk-balance in personal relationships.

    Æthelred on
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    DraculaDracula DARCUL DAS WAMPY Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I like that it says that Sexually Confident Men:
    # Don't have to trade money or gifts for sex (a.k.a. "dating")

    So I guess all women are essentially prostitutes.

    Dracula on
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    ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    Guys are known for talking too much? D:

    This again makes sense if you correct his terminology. I don't think anyone hasn't met a girl who just doesn't shut up anymore than they've never met a guy who just doesn't shut up.

    He's saying that guys talk too much, and that can ruin the relationship. I don't think I've ever heard a case of that happening. Ever. In the history of the universe.

    I think a better way to have said that is to focus more on having a balanced conversation, which means doing a lot of listening. It makes the other person feel important, and valued, and you don't look like a douche for talking about yourself all the time.

    Girls like it when I listen to them talk about ideas that they are interested in and then contribute conversation about those ideas that demonstrates that I'm taking them seriously and paying attention.

    Edit: Which again is a case where "girls" can be replaced with "people".

    ViolentChemistry on
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    RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Guys are known for talking too much? D:

    This again makes sense if you correct his terminology. I don't think anyone hasn't met a girl who just doesn't shut up anymore than they've never met a guy who just doesn't shut up.

    He's saying that guys talk too much, and that can ruin the relationship. I don't think I've ever heard a case of that happening. Ever. In the history of the universe.

    I think a better way to have said that is to focus more on having a balanced conversation, which means doing a lot of listening. It makes the other person feel important, and valued, and you don't look like a douche for talking about yourself all the time.

    Girls like it when I listen to them talk about ideas that they are interested in and then contribute conversation about those ideas that demonstrates that I'm taking them seriously and paying attention.

    Edit: Which again is a case where "girls" can be replaced with "people".


    There should be a sticky called "PA Guide to Dating" and it should be put in H/A. Seriously, like every week the same questions get asked and answered over and over.

    RocketSauce on
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    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2008
    The Cat wrote: »
    well, its more complicated than that. People who are socially dominant in a given context talk the most; so bosses > workers, etc.

    There's not any proper data on it really; it's impossible to quantify the talk-balance in personal relationships.

    I don't know about that; I've read several interesting pieces of research. just wish I had all my old links. Stupid firefox crashes...

    The Cat on
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    ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    The Cat wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    well, its more complicated than that. People who are socially dominant in a given context talk the most; so bosses > workers, etc.

    There's not any proper data on it really; it's impossible to quantify the talk-balance in personal relationships.

    I don't know about that; I've read several interesting pieces of research. just wish I had all my old links. Stupid firefox crashes...

    All the research I've read is on environments where the talking can actually be measured, like work-places. There's the "men think women talk more even when they don't" findings, but they can't be extrapolated to real talking percentages.

    Æthelred on
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    Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Hm. I went to a wedding recently, and spotted a girl who looked totally fucking bored. I asked her if she was okay and she confirmed my boredom suspicions.

    I told her that I can talk about anything but sports, she raised an eyebrow. So, I started asking her questions. Turns out she was Taiwanese, and she was wearing a pair of Gucci glasses. So, we talked about fashion for about an hour or so, and now we're good friends.

    I'm able to do that with essentially anyone who isn't actively avoiding conversation, so I guess that makes me an alpha male, right?

    Loren Michael on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    There should be a sticky called "PA Guide to Dating" and it should be put in H/A. Seriously, like every week the same questions get asked and answered over and over.

    Wouldn't work. Everybody thinks that they're a special snowflake and that their relationship/issue is unique. In some cases, they're correct. Generally, though? It's like 9/10 relationship threads there boil down to about a dozen different and fairly common relationship issues (OMG I'm moving away to college long distance relationship HELP!).

    EDIT: I missed my point, as much as there was one, thus those "snowflake" people would still post the same question, they'd just spend an extra paragraph explaining why their situation is different and thus the boilerplate answer in the sticky doesn't apply. Then we'd tell them that yeah, the standard answer pretty much does apply.


    So, this Man Bible thing...giving Ladder Theory a run for its money?

    mcdermott on
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    Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    What's ladder theory?

    Loren Michael on
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    MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    Where's ege?

    This is some PUA shit if I ever saw it.

    Medopine on
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    KrunkMcGrunkKrunkMcGrunk Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Dracula wrote: »
    I like that it says that Sexually Confident Men:
    # Don't have to trade money or gifts for sex (a.k.a. "dating")

    So I guess all women are essentially prostitutes.

    I don't think it's so much that, as some guys will essentially just try to buy off a girl by wooing her over with impressive things, rather than with his impressive self.

    Personally, I don't see dating as trying to trade gifts for sex. I see dating/dates as an activity that is a conduit for getting to know someone as they actually are. Essentially, trying to tear down the boundaries of politeness that people often put up.

    KrunkMcGrunk on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    What's ladder theory?

    You're a better person because you don't know. Google it if you want to become dumber. But remember, like shock images some things just cannot be unseen.

    mcdermott on
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    Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Apparently this Ladder Theory is scientific.

    Loren Michael on
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    KrunkMcGrunkKrunkMcGrunk Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Hm. I went to a wedding recently, and spotted a girl who looked totally fucking bored. I asked her if she was okay and she confirmed my boredom suspicions.

    I told her that I can talk about anything but sports, she raised an eyebrow. So, I started asking her questions. Turns out she was Taiwanese, and she was wearing a pair of Gucci glasses. So, we talked about fashion for about an hour or so, and now we're good friends.

    I'm able to do that with essentially anyone who isn't actively avoiding conversation, so I guess that makes me an alpha male, right?

    I think that just makes you a sociable, interesting, fun guy. A good quality to have. :^:

    KrunkMcGrunk on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Hm. I went to a wedding recently, and spotted a girl who looked totally fucking bored. I asked her if she was okay and she confirmed my boredom suspicions.

    I told her that I can talk about anything but sports, she raised an eyebrow. So, I started asking her questions. Turns out she was Taiwanese, and she was wearing a pair of Gucci glasses. So, we talked about fashion for about an hour or so, and now we're good friends.

    I'm able to do that with essentially anyone who isn't actively avoiding conversation, so I guess that makes me an alpha male, right?

    I think that just makes you a sociable, interesting, fun guy. A good quality to have. :^:

    Yeah, if you want to end up on the wrong ladder.
    I'm so sorry.

    mcdermott on
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    Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Suddenly, the "ladder theory" site starts referring to women as "bitches".

    And it refers to critics as "intellectual whores".

    Good stuff!

    Loren Michael on
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